Any educated thoughts...?

"Replies: 56 01 Sep 10 21:47   
I am speaking from experience, the Arc is an over rated race which is a good spring board for nh sires.Just the job nowadays for one paced plodders who like the soft...

I felt so insensed by the twaddle written by one contributor elsewhere on the site I spent an hour researching a response...

Just intrigued to hear thoughts from those who DO know about these things... I make no claims to such

Somerset_Moan Joined: 13 02 Sep 10 06:01   
Re the somewhat unusual comment above about the race producing "One paced plodders who like the soft” fit only as NH sires...  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!![:o][:x][:x][:x][:x][:x]

An objective look at the bloodstock page on Racing Post - some excerpts below!! -  would suggest otherwise:

Yes, Caroll House and Subotika's progeny had better success over jumps, as have Sagamix thus far... and Trempolino has been a good dual purpose sire... and Lammtarra has been nothing short of a flop...

BUT that says as much about the ground on the day, the mares to which they are sent and the obsession with speed in today's breeding

On the balance of information and objective judgement, taking a look at 25 years worth, those blips are more than cancelled out by the super stars to be found therein...

It’s too early to say for the last half dozen or so winners as to stud performance, but the majority previously have been decent, or very good at stud... some exceptional.

Almost without exception the winners have been good, very good or even exceptional, themselves... 

The Arc is clearly (Still) a good guide and test ... The stats speak for themselves... that's cold hard data, neither subjective nor post-prandial!!





1985 Rainbow Quest   
Sire of more than 100 group/stakes winners
33 x G1s in offspring since 2000
Top rated offspring  - 133
Leading broodmare sire in Great Britain & Ireland in 2003 and 2004.

1986 Dancing Brave
A winner of 4 x G1s
13 x G1s in offspring since 2000.
Top rated offspring  - 127

1987 Trempolino
Progeny have 7 G1s since 2000
Top rated offspring  -  126
Top rated NH offspring = 166

1988 Tony Bin – RP 125 -
A winner of 3 x G1x
Progeny 10 x G1s since 2000
Top rated offspring - 125

1989 Carroll House  (OR 128) -  RP 129 -
A winner of 3 x G1s
Top rated NH progeny = 165

1990 Saumarez – RP 131 -
A Winner of 2 x G1s
Now in South Africa

1991 Suave Dancer (OR 136) – RP 131 -
A winner of 3 x G1s
4  x G1s in progeny since 2000
Top rated offspring:  123

1992 Subotica (OR 120) – RP 127 -
A winner of 3 x G1s
Top rated NH offspring – 144

1993 Urban Sea - RP 124 -
A winner of just one G1 – but had the winners of 14 G1s behind her that day!
World class brood mare – produced two Derby winners, Galileo and Sea the Stars
Top rated offspring – OR 135

   
1994 Carnegie - RP 128 -
A winner of 2 G1s
11 WORLD-WIDE G1S IN PROGENY SINCE 2000.
TOP RATED OFFSPRING - 123 
Stands in Japan/Australia, has had European 2yo winners from very few runners

1995 Lammtarra  (OR 130) – RP 129 -
A winner of 3 x G1s
No progeny of real interest

1996 Helissio – RP 134 -
A winner of 5 x G1s
Top rated offspring  – RP 123 -
Accumulated 1,608,779 euros in winnings and already fetched around 10 million dollars in Japan as a stallion.

1997 Peintre Celebre  - RP 137 -
A winner of 3 x G1s
Sired 21 x G1 winners
Top rated offspring – RP 126 -

1998 Sagamix – RP – 126
A winner of 1 x G1
Some success as NH stallion  - top rated offspring NH = 145

1999 Montjeu (OR 135) - RP 136 –
A winner of 6 x G1s
Sired 30 x G1 winners to date
Top rated offspring  - RP 133 –
Has already sired an Arc winner (Hurricane Run) and two Derby winners a (Motivator and Authorized).
Numbering more than 100 a year, his coverings start at 125,000 euro.

2000 Sinndar  (OR 128) – RP 132 –
A winner of 4 x G1s
5 x G1s in Progeny to date
Top rated offspring – RP 128 –

2001 Sakhee (OR 130) – RP 135 –
Winner of 2 x G1s
Top Rated offspring – RP 126 –


2002 Marienbard  (OR 127) – RP 127 -
Winner of 3 x G1s
A few runners so far in Japan – nothing to note

2003 Dalakhani  - RP 134 -
Winner of 4 x G1s
6 x G1s already in Offspring
Top rated offspring – RP 127
Stands at Gilltown Stud in Ireland his first crop sold at auction totalled 700,000 in 2006.

2004 Bago - RP 129 -
Winner of 5 x G1s
First progeny showing Group 1 placed already in Japan

2005 Hurricane Run - RP 133 -
Winner of 4 x G1s
First crop out this year
Currently commands 30,000 euros as a stud fee.

2006 Rail Link  - RP 128 - 
Winner of 2 x G1s
First offspring yet to appear

2007 Dylan Thomas (OR 128) - RP 131 -   
Winner of 6 x G1s
First offspring yet to appear

2008 Zarkava  - RP 129 –
Winner of 5 x G1s
Unbeaten filly
The first foal for Zarkava was a filly by Dalakhani born on February 6, 2010 at Gilltown Stud Ireland

2009 Sea the Stars (OR 135)  - RP 138
Winner of  six G1s at 3
First year at stud 2010 = 85k Euros
Zarkava is booked to be covered by him in 2010.
Her dam Zarkasha has already been covered by him, as has Bordighera (Dam of George Washington), Romanet, Alpine Rose, Grandera, Centrofattention