HARBINGER

He could be seen as a stallion a bit like Rail Link as you point out he's not the sort to get early sorts,at the moment at the most I reckon he may be pitched in at 8/10k,he needs to improve and go over a shorter trip to stand for more,he may do just that,with his sire doing well I'm sure breeders would use him saying that at the moment he looks an owner breeder sort.
I did think that if Motivator goes the wrong way and he needs to improve a hell of a lot,it would be no surprise to see him at the Royal Studs or even Highclere,but that may look like you know who with his finger in the pie once more,he won't want that again!!!

I'd say he'll stand in the UK 100%. I'm not sure how he'd be perceived in Ireland. he would surely take alot of mares off Coolmores middle distance horses if he was to stand over here but i'd still go to Coolmore

Thinking about it perhaps being by Dansili and with his profile could he go to Darley?They seem to like the type,they I'm sure would love some Dansili blood.

I'm not sure about the wee tweak on his wind, but he sure looks like a better horse for it, which would be a big worry for me.
It seems to be fact that Highclere have had no approaches about the horse yet and I wonder how the wind versus stamina issues play out with the stallion masters.
I am with you Prima, at the moment he is just Rail Link mk. 11 and I don't think Montjeu/Galileo shareholders will be quaking in their boots!
If he is as good as his current form/ratings then there is no doubt he will be able to win well in the 10f Gp. 1s too. However, that doesn't mean 12f isn't his home or his genetic future I feel.
Royal Studs is my current favourite!!

His late maturing could well be exacerbated by the softly,softly approach that Stoute took with him. I'd say someone will say that this is ridiculous but they probably could have one a backend maiden with him. I've a feeling that he might have been a sick horse or just a bit off last year. I'd be interested to know when they did his wind as after he bombed at York they ran him again and he ran ok to finish second to High Heeled so maybe it was after that. I'd associate late development more with a horse who wins his races through stamina and grinding things out, this horse always travelled well, look at the way he went around Chester in a good maiden, he mightn't have been as backward as is percieved

i think a lot will depend on his run in the Juddemonte, 8k sterling sounds about right, personally i dont like nor rate late 4year old, despite being a meaga famous name fan, he preformed well in france at 3, that said even if he wins that ellusive G1 he s just a running avertisment for dansili and now real stallion prospect(famous name that is), i look forward to harbinger's fairing over the more marketable 10f. has anyone seen him n the flesh and what he looks like in th ring?

Now we can really discuss were he could go very unfortunate for all connected

What bad luck,hope he makes a recovery,doubt he will race again,expect him to retire probably to the Royal Stud.Thinking about it last time I was at Highclere the old stallion boxes that once housed Derby winner Teenoso looked a scruffy mess,so I doubt they would stand him there.

no word of where he'll go yet , i can imagine its a messy affair sorting out the owners(i dont fully understand the ownership arrangement), cashmans in cork are looking fora  stallion for the right money

RipVanWinkle Joined: 18 Nov 08
Replies: 307 07 Aug 10 15:30   


Now we can really discuss were he could go very unfortunate for all connected


ffs

very unfortunate for all coonected?

they are  in a very fortunate place at the moment imo........ what would have happened if he got injured earlier in his career............ they'd be no posts on him.....(nap)

I agree but this horse could have been worth more if say he won an Arc

DMCK, The world and his wife is looking for stallion prospects but I'm not sure he is a good fit for Rathbarry unless interest is so limited that he fits Glenview. The ownership set up with Highclere is quite simple. A syndicate of 10 or so pay a lump sum for the horse which includes it's purchase and it's running costs. They do own Harbinger but needless to say they will hand over a generous percentage of any sale price to Warren and the Highclere management. However don't worry for them, they'll do alright!
He's tricky tricky tricky though isn't he. I think Highclere, Royal Studs + Lanwades are the most likely with Cheveley an outsider as they desperately need a new horse and have deep pockets.
I'll say fee at £10 - 12ish and he'll need to be mighty gorgeous if I'm to give him a glance. .

From what I've seen on TV he is, serious muscle definition on this horse and I'm not so sure he  was as backward as everyone thinks though I suppose perception is all that matters

I don't think imo Rathbarry would be after this horse,if he does go there I can see his future as a high class jump sire as he holds no more appeal than a sire like Belmez or Kings Theatre,he could be seen at the moment as an OB sire,like Pot m says a stud like Lanwades may get him as its owner seems to stand sires that don't really go hand in hand with being commercial.
If he does go to Highclere which imo is favourite he should get some help from John Warren for now but I doubt he will ever be a commercial stallion,give it 5 years I bet he ends up a jump sire.He is not one I'd have down to consider using,what may surprise you is one very well known Tatt's auctioneer thought Dansili himself was sure to make a jump sire,he did not rate him at all,doubt he would ever admit to that now.

There but for the grace. . .
Amusing tale Prima.
Not entirely unforgivable though is it. Dansili's a plainish sort and his pedigree sort of started with the horse himself didn't it. At the beginning you had Ile de Bourbon and High Line and a solid not spectacular background so jumping could easily have been a destination for him I feel. I'll forgive the auctioneer for now then - mind you if he's the same one that doesn't get enough bids for me in the coming months then I'll be revising opinions pronto

Lets hope you get plenty of bids then Pot M,mind you we have used Dansili a couple of times and have produced moderate sales horses with him all were very different sorts,none of them won,he has been a sire that we have not used since but he is on fire right now so we may use him next year.You say iyo he is a touch plain,I think he is a typical Danehill what I also like about him is his BM sire Kahyasi a fantastic BM sire who works so well with Danehill and his son Danehill Dancer,I remember you told us you had sent one of your mares to Champs Elysees,I think he is a great looking stallion with a bit more class than Dansili you must be very happy with your choice he is sure to be very popular when his first crop hit the sales,I wonder what that Auctioneer will think of him.

I'm not sure I have Dansili as a real Danehill stamp PD I've always tought that Champs Elysees is a bit more typical. However I've just looked up Danehill pictures on t'internet and I see you are perhaps nearer the mark than me - again! I just had Dansili as a bit lighter with the Exceed and Excell's of this world more what I think of with Danehill.
As you've had a slightly disappointing time with Dansili in the past and the stakes are a mighty bit higher these days, would you go all out to send him an ultra reliable mare in the hope that she knocks out some of the indifference you've experienced to date? Or would it upset you too much if you got 'ordinary' from a hitherto successful mare? It's a job to know which way to turn in this game isn't it.
You're not just off to the Lucien Barriere casino are you?

Pot M,Would I go all out and send Dansili one of the very best mares?I might do,but we tend to send the top mares to Coolmore,some do go to Juddmonte we have used Oasis Dream a few times and have a mare in foal now I can't help but think with Dansili is he the sort to get a top 2y'old?He is on fire just now but most of his stock tend get better with age,saying that though Zoffany looks a nice sort, Dansili's mares are getting better so it does look like he will become a great stallion,we always assess stallions to see if they are the sort we would use he does seem to be getting better and as he is from the best sire line going at the moment we will think again about him,I'm always cautious about sires who we have not done so well with Dansili is one of these,but like everything you always need change,I do like as you know Champs Elysees my son in law wanted to send a mare to him this year we were both very keen but Slick vetoed it so we will see who made the best choice,he to me looks real value so I'd like to send him one next year and poss'one or two to his big brother,lets see how he gets on this year.Do you plan to use him Pot M?

I'm assuming you are asking me about C d E not Dansili Prima
Sadly I am not in the Dansili division only really having one mare I could push into that bracket IF I had the money. And if I was heading for your heights, Dansili's sales figures and indeed your words, would have me looking for a slightly safer investment. Oasis Dream at the same money is more reliable to me although it will be interesting to see whether they remain at the same price next year.
Sorry, I digress! I try to be a 1st season/proven chap where possible so I wouldn't look to using C d E necessarily next season and only go that route if slightly pushed.                   I must say though what with fashion being ever more important (and fashion going hand in hand with youth) it seems that perhaps I should be taking more chances with unproven sires and at least giving myself a chance of the gamble paying, rather than placing quite so much weight on the old faithfuls that people get bored of before you know it.
One thing about only having a handful of mares is that I have only ever used two stallion more than once. I know how you feel about returning to a horse who has done you no favours - perhaps the only advantage of playing the game on my scale.

I would be more interested in using a son of Dansili that I feel is more typical of his sire, particularly in terms of their average winning distance. Maybe Delegator, Famous Name or Zacinto. I know these horses don't have the ability of Harbinger, but I'm not sure these staying sons of quicker sires are the way to go. Rail Link, for example, didn't do particularly well at the foal sales last year and he's an arc winner! I think Champs Elysees may also go a similar way with his foals, obviously though being a direct son of Danehill he has slightly more appeal.

Gimcrack, i am with you in as much as I like a sire prospect to be typical of his sireline. It's not always possible though to tick every box and with the cachet of a 1st season sire to act as a compensation I'll often take a chance.
I think the problem with Rail Link is simply one of late maturity and distance - the usual chestnuts - Him being untypical of Dansili I don't think acts against him too much commercially.
Do you think there is a really typical Dansili? He is a product of 2 extremes himself and I think that he is always going to be a bit of a hybrid when it comes to the aptitudes of his offspring.

Well, his dam was a miler and he was a miler. So on face value I'd say anything that performs well at a mile would be fairly typical offspring. Granted you've got the Kahyasi stamina but it doesn't seem to be too prominent when you consider Hasili's performances. The third dam Sookera (by Roberto) won the Cheveley Park and produced Nunthorpe winner So Factual, so this may go some way to explaining why Kahyasi's influence hasn't had much impact on the pedigree.