Bloodstock & Breeding
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with such a good book, coolmore backing and a great early start can he be caught? and if so who do you think, (by winners and prize money, whichever you base the most important commerical aspect)
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This stallion had 78 northern hemisphere foals, 32 were named, 31 ran of which 9 have won 11 races. Another over hyped Coolmore stallion. At 17.5k he wouldn't lace the boots of Big Bad Bob.
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The Gotchee,do you have a share in BBB?
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high5's all around for BOB!!!
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BBB is a good prospect and has a good future but in terms of this years 1st season sire, i say with respect that he cant win it
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Iffraaj for me
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Big Bad Bob had runners last year so is not even a first crop sire
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PD, I dont have shares in BBB
 , wish I had . I just like the underdog . I dont like Coolmore, I believe they have singlehandedly ruined the breeding industry. . |
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Well The Gotchee,imo Darley with the pay when you sell trollocks have done more damage than ever Coolmore have,are you useing BBB?
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thegotchee,try talk some sense next time u post,cheers
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PD,I havn't used BBB yet but I will use him next season. I feel Darley had to come up with an imaginative marketing ploy to try and break the dominance of Coolmore. Personally I don't like these gimmicks but I can see where Darley are coming from.
jan vermeer, I am entitled to my opinion and I think you will find many people would agree with my view. If you want a debate on the issue I will be happy give you my viewpoint.  |
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The Gotchee,
I feel Darley had to come up with an imaginative marketing ploy to try and break the dominance of Coolmore. But in doing the pay when you sell don't you think it backfired on them? As all its done is flood the market with utter trash in the process diluting any real chance of say a stallion like Byron both on the course and in the sale ring. I would be interested to hear you view on why you think Coolmore have single-handedly ruined the breeding industry,I agree with you Gotchee your view is valid and you are fully entitled to it regardless if others do or don't agree. |
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I dont think Coolmore have ruined Irish Bloodstock without them there would be no Irish Bloodstock. Could you imagine how bad our horses would be today if Coolmore had not introduced Sadlers Wells, he made Irish Bloodstock what it is and to be honest Coolmore should be thanked.
They have had there fair share of underachievers but they always try to offer the breeder a good stallion at stud |
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Rip Van,I completely agree with your view of Coolmore my sentiments exactly,I would like to hear The Gotchee's point though.
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the gotchee were all waiting in anticipation on your view as to why coolmore "have single-handedly ruined the breeding industry"im intrigued as to what nonsence u will put forward
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neither Coolmore or Darley has ruined the bloodstock industry, they've just changed how is and are dominating but small breeders still get in right some times and neither superpowers totally dominate, but my question was is the 1st season sire championship over with HRE quick start or can Iffraaj or kodiac catch him, im particurly inttrested in his coolmore studmate hurricane run take any part in the championship? the season haS only reached the half way mark
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Kodiac i dont think will be involved although his pedigree suggests he could do very well. I like Iffraaj myself and have used him a bit. There nice sorts and easy to deal with and we've never had any problems with them. Holy Roman Emperor is the likely winner but to be honest i've been disappointed with his progeny and we have a mare in foal to him this year hopefully he'll do well.
Hurricane Run is a big scopey horse i think he's very long of his back which takes time to develop so his progeny should come good with age like him. He is a horse that i always love to see when at Coolmore and they think alot of him maybe thats why his box is up near his sire. |
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im not sure iffraj can win unless the goldophin 2year olds start preforming like they did at the tail end of last year, despite hurricane runs only 2year old start being in october i think coolmore would have had a few out by royal ascot but maybe glorious goodwood, havent heard aBOUT ANY OF HIS 2YEAR olds to date
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OVERPRODUCTION was initiated by Coolmore. They sacraficed quality for quantity which has resulted extreme inbreeding to Northern Dancer/Sadlers Wells/Danzig etc.
The models in question are inbred for optimum performance. The raw material for this heavily marketed equine ‘product’ is a small number of fashionable stallions and mares who themselves derive from ultra-fashionable breeding lines. By fixating on this narrow marketing objective, breeders will have a major detrimental impact on generations of horses to come. There is already evidence that a fragile and weaker Thoroughbred is emerging, and this is despite breeders’ insistence that ‘improvement’ of the performance horse is their paramount objective. I believe the German model of bloodstock regulation should be adopted by all bloodstock breeding nations in an attempt to bring some sanity back into the industry. |
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first season sire c'ship starting to get going now with the 7f to mile 2yo races starting to come on stream.A treble for Iffraaj yesterday but what will come out of the pack as the season progresse.Dubawi had very few winners this time last year and still came 2nd inthe numbers table(I think).Open to correction.
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I'm slightly surprised Ifraaj has done so well as he does not look the immediate type to get early horses,and being a son of Zafonic with no preciosity in his page,but saying that they did sell well last year and have gone to some good hotels so is he a turn-up?
Holy Roman Emperor imo needs a few class 2 y'olds nothing really looks like top flight to date but I know plenty of time still left in the season for a few classy ones to come out.One first season sire who should of done better is Byron,being early and from a speedy family this son of Green Desert is not doing it,wonder why.............could it be Darley covering lots of rubbish or is he another flop son of Green Desert,or perhaps a bit of both? |
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May I add Woodman to the Byron conundrum?
I know he has had his mome |
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. . .moments as a sire but I regard him as a bit poisonous in a pedigree personally.
H.R.E could do with some high classers I agree, but there is still time and I find it interesting that he has a really solid standard of horse overall. Next to none of them so far is useless. |
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H.R.E will do the buisness I feel as he got a serious book of mares.They will start to roll out soon.
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I doo hope you are right dubai,we have a few of his,he needs class from now on.
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**do**
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I like you too Dubai (vested HRE interest here aswell!)
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I loved this horse but i am massive feeling this guy is going right to the Top of the sire's list in 10 years.
He has some very solid 2yr old's so far....very impressed so far. |
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The Gotchee, you make a good point here I feel. The booksizes that Coolmore have permitted, will in the longer terms dilute the quality of the breed. I mean who would like a mare by any of this lot; Fasliyev, Hawk Wing, King Charlemagne, Spartacus, Spectrum & Mull of Kintyre ?
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1.5 on Holy Roman Emperor at the moment
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BSB i dont think hawk wing was all that bad and hawk wing mares are still unproven, id take a gamble on one with decent confirmation
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I would like a Fasliyev mare if all the credentials were right. I think you need form on a mare by a cold sire, but if that's there, I'll forgive the sire a lot of the time.
H.W. 4/10 K.C. 2/10 Spartacus and Mull 2 also. Spectrum at least has pedigree so 4/10 there too. It would be nice to not be backed into a buying corner for any of them really! |
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You may have a point DMCK..........but if I got one I would want a strong pedigree and look at her family,despite her being by Hawk Wing,she would also need to be a good sort as a lot of his are far too big and backward.I will be amazed if he is any good as a broodmare sire but we shall have to see over the next few years.
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hawk wing by woodman means taking a step way from the danehill storm cat and saddlers that is begining to make every horse inbred, note what jim Boldger is doing by bringing in alot of american blood which will stand to him hugly in the coming years, i agree about Fasliyev, source of speed could be nicly mixed with Galileo or high Chap maybe
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I don't think Jim Bolgers use of american sires is to avoid in breeding, probaby a descent exchange rate and novel in the sales rings. After all he did "try" and put Lush Lashes in foal to - Sea The Stars (her uncle).
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a few of STS nominations were trying the 3x3 inbreding Bolger pointed to some stud in france that regulaly did it, cant remember the name for the life of me, i wasnt aware that a lot of his americans were bought rather than mares sent over which would have cost a fair few €/$.
Given the mention of the Stars, i look forward to seeing a few Stars foals out of a Dalakhani mare |
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i look forward to seeing a few Stars foals out of a Dalakhani mare
You may have a long wait then as imo you could get a horse that makes up into a really nice 5y'old,lots and lots of stamina in the mix with those two. |
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P D,
I agree if See The Stars turns out to be a disappointment that's where we'll be. If however he goes the route of his big brother, and he has more speed, then that's the cross that'll be delivering our Derby/Arc horses maybe. |
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i really think that The Stars will be like his brother, ie successful but will give that bit more speed being by cape cross and all, give his book STS will have to be odds on for 1st season sire,.... am currently very dissappoined with this years 2year old in general never mind what the 1stseanson sires have thrown up, has anyone used any of the 1st season sires? views on etc
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DMCK 02 Jul 10 22:51
with such a good book, coolmore backing and a great early start can he be caught? Yes!Really for a stallion that got the level of mares he had in his first season,you have to admit he looks disappointing,lots of small winners but now the season is getting going with the best sorts coming out for the 2y'old GR1 where are they?His seem to be running as pace horses for the better ones ie Zoffany,and that's from his No1 yard who will give him the most help. |