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19 Jun 10 17:17
Date Joined: 17 Mar 10
| Topic/replies: 2,672 | Blogger: potentialmillionaire's blog
Being a confirmed Choisir hater and sceptical of Danehill Dancer in a pedigree for the moment, where does everyone else place Starspangledbanner?
I know nothing of his pedigree but watching on the box today he did at least appear to have a bit more quality than Choisir.
I stand to be corrected as I'm coming from a position of some ignorance here. Any opinions out there?
Pause Switch to Standard View Starspangledbanner
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Report Valero June 20, 2010 1:43 AM BST
Why the hate for Chosir?

Absolute class animal.
Report Prima Donna June 20, 2010 9:04 AM BST
I think he would be a great addiction to the sire ranks,as he is fast, has class from a great sire line but gives a 'outcross'pedigree and add the fact he is a good sort.Chosir never set the world on fire as a sire but he did get plenty of winners who can get some classy ones, trainers do seem to like then,Whats the problem with Danehill Dancer in a pedigree Pot M?
Report Make my hay June 20, 2010 1:25 PM BST
used to love spangles
Report RipVanWinkle June 20, 2010 2:35 PM BST
I wouldn't mind Choisir coming back again cause i have a big rangy mare that i'd like to cover with him, he wasn't bad at stud maybe he could make it into a top broodmare sire as some of the mares i've saw are very nice.
I think that Starspangledbanner represents great value and if he did shuttle i wouldn;t mind sending a mare to him he has some turn of foot and can stay a mile
Report neill d June 20, 2010 3:37 PM BST
aftertiming I know but I now love this horse, from when he jumped the result was never in doubt, could this have been his last ever race? They were proved right about the raw speed and he stays a mile, a great prospect surely. On the BBC they were saying he took very much after his sire in terms of his sprinting physique.
Report RipVanWinkle June 20, 2010 5:20 PM BST
I saw Choisir cover a mare and he made the mare look like she was malnourished he has a massive body
Report Valero June 20, 2010 6:55 PM BST
i saw that porno aswell.
Report Prima Donna June 20, 2010 7:22 PM BST
I too have seen Choisir he really is a very strong sort,Starspangledbanner is like his sire but maybe has more quality than Choisir,but has speed to burn if he goes to Coolmore Ireland we would almost certainly use him.
Report RipVanWinkle June 20, 2010 7:29 PM BST
Valero your mother was in it aswell sucking off ChoisirLaugh
Report Prima Donna June 20, 2010 7:36 PM BST
^^^^ did she live to tell the tale Laugh
Report potentialmillionaire June 20, 2010 9:04 PM BST
Lads lads, where are you going to here, Valero, didn't dive as low as that!
Choisir, a typical power packed Coolmore launch pad (in quantity at least) and upto the end of last year, running at 38 winners less than Captain Rio who retired at the same time. Not enough quality either and I assume the phone was not ringing off the hook this spring and keeping him in Aus.
P.D nice to see you returned, and in your honour, I'll retreat slightly in my Danehill Dancer rant, but as a sire of sires and broodmares I have my reservations - you know the flops too - so I just suppose it is a case of opinion as to where he goes from here.
Report Prima Donna June 20, 2010 9:52 PM BST
I'll retreat slightly in my Danehill Dancer rant, but as a sire of sires and broodmares I have my reservations - you know the flops too - so I just suppose it is a case of opinion as to where he goes from here.

I can see why you may have your reservations about DD as a sire of sires from the sons he has had so far Pot'M. But remember these sons were conceived when DD was standing as a cheap and cheerful 2yo Danehill son. Never expected to achieve what he has and only covered low grade mares. He has done well to have several sons at stud from these lowly books, but it is a stretch to imagine that his sons could replicate his success with similar grade mares when combined with their own moderate pedigrees. I would perhaps reserve judgement until his better bred sons come on stream. The same argument could also apply to his daughters, though they can be afforded better chances by the quality of stallion they visit.

I too have the impression that the phone was quiet for Choisir noms this year, didn't even add up to his air fare back.I reckon Starspangled will be popular all the same. A new face, fast and from the fashionable sire line that gets 2yo's.
Report RipVanWinkle June 20, 2010 10:02 PM BST
With Coolmore they just need to change it up a bit i'm not saying ignore what is proven. But they know themselves they need an outcross stallion to what they have, they've tried to get colts by MrGreeley,Oasis Dream and others in recent years but it just hasn't happened.The purchase of SSB was a wise move but they are still left with having a grandson of Danehill Dancer so maybe the purchase of an outcross stallion could happen. I know in the last couple of years they have been outbid on one or two stallions by Darley one being none other than Medaglia D'oro although he is a grandson of Sadlers Wells he would have been some addition
Report potentialmillionaire June 20, 2010 10:17 PM BST
Indeed P.D. I hadn't really given enough thought to the modest mares that were combined with the 1st few modestly credentialled sires by D.D. A lose lose situation perhaps!
Report potentialmillionaire June 20, 2010 10:19 PM BST
P.s. Did you get a good look at S.S.B?
Report Prima Donna June 20, 2010 10:23 PM BST
Pot'M yes I did have a look at him. Basically he is his sire but with more quality. Maybe not quite the lump his father is but a nice horse. What were your thoughts about him from your TV view?
Report potentialmillionaire June 20, 2010 10:42 PM BST
With you bang on! And as you'd expect, I wasn't looking to like him.
His page is as obscure as possible for over here I'd say so I would definitely give him consideration as a prospect viewing him as the same - but different!
I think that they'll definitely stand him over here won't they, I think we were all so impressed, most folks would give him the benefit. Apparently they gave Aus.$10m for him? That sure as hell makes more sense than The Green Monkey!!
Report imagele June 28, 2010 10:45 PM BST
I know his Australian family pretty well.  Don't know much about his damsire but his grandams sire was Vain who was an out an out champion - one of the best and fastest horses you would see (from the Hyperion line through Star Kingdom and Todman - both great stallions).  He was absolutely brilliant and won the 2yo triple crown in Australia.

Interestingly his great grandam's sire was Zamazaan a French horse known for siring very strong resolute stayers in New Zealand and Australia.  Sire of at least one Melbourne Cup winner. 

I agree that he is more elegant than his father (who takes after his grandsire Lunchtime who was a big heavy topped horse also).  I would certainly use him - I don't think that race was a fluke - I have a huge respect for Fleeting Spirit and he beat her pretty easily. I think he is better than his father potentially.
Report potentialmillionaire July 10, 2010 3:41 PM BST
Interesting decision to delay his retirement. I really think there might have been an element of sportsmanship involved perhaps? (preparing to be shot downLaugh)

I suppose his value for Northern hemisphere duties could still be enhanced, but he's pretty much maxed out now for down under and will his value here be advanced enough by a full season to warrant losing $2m aus this coming season?

(Thanks for support elsewhere PM)
Report Prima Donna July 10, 2010 4:01 PM BST
PM do you mean PDLaughsome comments from others leave you feeling OMG!
Report Prima Donna July 10, 2010 4:10 PM BST
You could also take the view that Ballydoyle are having a poor season,they are the sort of outfit who ALWAYS want success,nothing of their bunch looks outstanding keeping them in the limelight so to speak..........that is until Starspangledbanner.
It could be down to pure sportsmanship,but knowing them they are businessmen who love horseracing.If he does win the remaining top prizes,then as you point out his value could and will be 'enhanced'giving him max value here then also next AUS'season.
Report Tiswallaceno7 July 10, 2010 8:39 PM BST
Couple of Million will hardly worry Coolmore.

They can stand him for a bigger fee in Europe next season if he goes on to win a Group 1 in France and the Nunthorpe. Fair play i say. Want to see him really tested but i guess a Breeders Cup on th e the Dirt is outSad
Report potentialmillionaire July 11, 2010 12:33 AM BST
I wonder without the rail, and the 6th furlong he might be vulnerable to Equiano.
They might have a go at the dirt, after all they've taken more valuable types and with less chance of handling it - Galileo springs to mind.

( And yes, thanks P D, you're right. I was/am losing itLaugh)
Report RipVanWinkle July 15, 2010 7:38 AM BST
Heard that they might try two different trips with him
Report potentialmillionaire April 8, 2011 5:41 PM BST
Here's your clue for my long awaited announcement! Subtle hey ?

(I chose this thread as it's the most flattering to the horse!!)
Report Prima Donna April 8, 2011 5:51 PM BST
My wait is over then!GrinWell done and both of us hope its a success for you Pot M,T.and C?
Report Prima Donna April 8, 2011 7:14 PM BST
Sorry I meant to put ! not?Cool
Report RipVanWinkle April 8, 2011 7:15 PM BST
Nice choice we have one already covered just have to scan her once more, PD are you using him aswell?
Report Prima Donna April 8, 2011 7:34 PM BST
Not sure Rip Van [;)]How can I answer that without giving the game away!You will have to look in the return of mares later this year GrinBut remember one of the best and we are using a few of his son's this year including a cheapy[;)]!
Report potentialmillionaire April 8, 2011 7:36 PM BST
Thanks for your support, much appreciated. Let's hope we've all made more than our fair share of good decisions this season.

This is perhaps a slightly average mating but I am heartened by the horses win over a mile and if in doubt, good looking 1st season is where I always feel safest.

Glad to hear you have used him and are in foal Ripvan, as I have a feeling he's going to need some great swimmers to get through my pretty grotty uterus!

Still they've had a go, so where there's a will. . .
Report RipVanWinkle April 8, 2011 7:39 PM BST
PD you'll have them in different names so know one will know who you are i'v heard people do thatGrin
Report Prima Donna April 8, 2011 8:30 PM BST
They do Rip Van ................we do it too!As you know.[;)]
Report RipVanWinkle May 10, 2011 1:24 PM BST
Report Prima Donna May 10, 2011 1:54 PM BST
What's the plain face for Rip Van? Is she not in foal?
Report RipVanWinkle May 10, 2011 2:06 PM BST
No not yet. Have you sent him any PD if so is she in foal?
Report Prima Donna May 10, 2011 2:18 PM BST
Oh dear that's not such good news this time of year,as for your question well all I can say is of the ones who went to Coolmore stallions all are scanned in foal most are now back here,yes we have used several sire's from the Danehill Dancer line including a chestnut.
Report paddywhacker1970 May 10, 2011 3:20 PM BST
The infamous grapevine has mentioned that Starspangled is having quite a few mares not scanning in foal. Anyone else heard anything?
Report Prima Donna May 10, 2011 3:28 PM BST
Sounds like Rip Van Winkle is the owner of a so far barren mare,a great shame lets hope he along with others soon get the result needed.
Report Prima Donna May 10, 2011 3:30 PM BST
Lets hear from Potentialmillionaire then as he I understand has sent one over to him,any news with your s Pot M?
Report potentialmillionaire May 10, 2011 6:56 PM BST
It's obviously breaking everywhere at the same time, this particular nugget of news.

I came up empty and blamed the mare as she wasn't a great help shall we say. Been covered again and lo, 2 days after, out comes this bit of news.

Not best amused.
Report Prima Donna May 10, 2011 7:05 PM BST
Switch then if you can to Rip Van Winkle......
Report potentialmillionaire May 10, 2011 7:28 PM BST
But I don't get to make that decision for another 2 weeks or so, by which time I'm not sure I wouldn't rather bring her home empty.

Wish I'd known prior to this last cover. (you know I'm good at stating the obvious)

I've never switched a mare before so don't know how easily they go for it, any tips out there?
Report Prima Donna May 10, 2011 7:49 PM BST
Can't see much of a problem switching providing its another Coolmore sire,maybe Alfred Nobel as you like 1st season.I'm sure they can be understanding to your plight given the scenario.
Report Posh Paddy May 10, 2011 8:11 PM BST
Is he full on firing blanks or getting some in and others not?  Wasn't Choisir the same to start with or am I confusing him with someone else?
Report neill d May 11, 2011 2:13 AM BST
Bad news, the miler to sprinter thing is a great angle and something I'd love to see a bit more of, on the subject of such, Delegator, back from the wilderness tomorrow and as predicted by some on here, no hype, out of sight and out of mind.
Report potentialmillionaire May 11, 2011 11:55 AM BST
In the position I'm in I don't need to know all the facts Posh Paddy, but I'll have to fish properly shortly to decide what next.

A mid season slump is how it's been described to me - I certainly know he fired well at the beginning of the season as I had time to check on that before I booked, and some on here are in foal I believe.

Would love to have some concrete facts from here, as then I can back them into a corner when I check up and it's much harder to spin in a corner . . .
Report Posh Paddy May 12, 2011 7:44 PM BST
At what point to you call it a day knowing that the later you keep going the less commercial the offspring becomes.  I know it's slightly different for owner breeders or if you've got black type / very well related mares (in today's Dante I see Yaseer was a late 26 May foal) but for those looking to sell what's your cutoff point?

My mare was covered on 25 April and I'm thinking of giving it one last go if she's not in foal come Monday.  Am I right? or should I give up then or even give it yet another cycle?

Appreciate all your views.
Report Prima Donna May 12, 2011 8:18 PM BST
PP,as a rule of thumb I'd say the cut off point is Derby Day (Epsom)with the cheaper sorts that you always want the early foaling date then perhaps a bit sooner,but saying that is does depend on your mare and how commercial she is.At the very least if she is barren you can get her away next year very early.
Report potentialmillionaire May 12, 2011 8:22 PM BST
P P I'm never one for a definitive answer, Prima Donna thinks that's an English trait, he might be right!

It's a very interesting point you raise and I don't think it's a particularly easy decision. Some people have a date for their final coverings and that's it. Probably very wise.

I daresay you're giving the knock on effect for next season a great deal of thought and ofcourse it's a total pain signing yourself away for 3 covers with a February foaler and then the mare shuts down and you find you've run out of time and the stallion stud get shirty because you don't want to be held to the 3 jumps.

I guess that's not a problem for the 'players' but us little guys are quite easily bullied at such times.

I tend to judge the issue case by case. If you've a mare that's likely to foal a slightly backward type and that's not the market the mating is designed for then be very ware. If your mating will produce a brick s==thouse regardless of when it's born then you can obviously leave it a bit later. If there are powerful reasons for needing a foal from the mating and you are a yearling vendor then I imagine some people would be happy to breed with the December sales in mind - it can be a very strong market.

On balance maybe a cover at the end of next week would be a goer, but it does mean next year is problematical. Do you love this years mating more than a hypothetical match for Feb 2012?
Report Posh Paddy May 12, 2011 8:58 PM BST
I wouldn't consider my mare commercial but she does breed winners (albeit at a lowish grade).  Next year is not an option being barren, she wasn't covered last year and and we couldn't get her away early.

I'm not keeping her for another (she's 19 now too).

Not sure if she foals them backward, the Baltic King is a bit but he was very late and was incredibly ill as a foal so I put it down to that.

Going to Dandy Man hopefully will give me the "tank" option and I do like this mating - Pedigree, Confirmation, Trip, Season, Location & Price are all spot on.

Sounds as though I'm about right.  Thanks for the input.
Report potentialmillionaire May 12, 2011 9:34 PM BST
Apologies P P, I should have remembered the Dandy Man cover, but I am always in awe of some of the 'memories' on here.

On the face of it you have nothing to lose as it's the last throw. However if it goes wrong you've got "19yo mare" for them to throw at you aswell! Hope you make the right call - or get ready to race the foal!!
Report Prima Donna May 12, 2011 9:37 PM BST
PP,with that in mind keep going then as you have nothing to loose with her at 19,I did see your 'photo of the Baltic King it didn't look very backward to me,personally I thought it was a good sort,Dandy Man is an ideal follow on mating to me lets hope you have some good news soon.Happy
Report Posh Paddy June 19, 2011 12:08 PM BST
Bit of a result, mare scanned in foal, that one and only covering at the end of April has stuck! That quiet word I had in her ear must have worked.
Report potentialmillionaire June 19, 2011 8:06 PM BST
Well done Posh Paddy. This is a great game for the unlikely result - it's why we remain so fascinated!
Report neill d June 20, 2011 1:56 AM BST
Wd, i've huge time for this fella, everything he did up here was with a rushed prep and I'm sure he is even better than he managed to show on these shores.Happy
Report Prima Donna June 20, 2011 11:09 AM BST
Well done PP,when you had a word in her ear I hope you told her you need a colt..........or else she gets the bulletLaugh
Report Posh Paddy June 20, 2011 8:49 PM BST
Cheers gents, no I didn't insist on a colt in our quiet little chat, she has given me one colt, insisting on another would just be greedy, just glad she's in foal and I bet she is too.
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