Lets do the 2000 Guineas !

if st nicks abbey comes for the guineas i for one would be astonished!...his derby horse surely!!

looked quick enough to me in last years RP at doncaster to make him a worthy fav for the gns,if Mr O'Brien has him ready will be very hard to beat imo

Steinbeck seem to be the Coolmore hype horse he might not be a worldbeater but could nick a weak Guineas and pack him off to stud. They might save SNA and JV for the Derby races.

A-T,If you think that you dont know Coolmore,but I agree with your first point.

No 7-2 available now, anyone got an opinion of the O Brien horses gallop the other day. SNA does not look your typical Montjeu, looks smaller than many of his better offspring. Cape Blanco and Fencing Master, look like solid horses who still have pleny to work on, and i expect them to come on alot in the next few weeks.

Is there a replay of it Push, I was out on Sunday

Push,have you ever seen Motivator?he is not very big when I saw him at the Royal Stud I was struck with how small he is. SNA is similar but stronger very much like a typical Sadlers Wells.

ben10, ATR have a replay of the gallops from Sunday on their website.

PD, as you stated if SNA is a smaller physical specimen he should be alot easier to get fit. Authorized, FAG, Hurricane Run, looked like big horses to me. Never did see Motivator in the flesh, always thought he had a strange action, still he was very impressive in the Derby, but that was his peak.

OK watched the first lot. SNA travelled and quickened up nicely. Sure they'll be happy with that, interesting to note he was with probably slower horses and showed he has good natural speed plus his turn of foot. Could be taken as a slight negative for the Derby imo. Most taken by Age Of Aquarius personally although we know what he's about already probably.

Prima Donna , do you know if they intend to run Cape Blanco in the 2000 Guineas ?

Of the last 18 Guineas winners only 4 horses did not earn one of the following Quotes previous to their Guineas success, QUICKENED / IMPRESSIVE.

This years candidates are SNA / CC /Cape Blanco / Workforce.

What race did Cape Blanco quicken in?

Not Quickened Ben , but got the quote IMPRESSIVE, also note that i saw a quote about Cape Blanco from this weekends workout that stated he was " very fat ", so i expect him to come on alot from his first couple of races.

Cheers Push, worth noting perhaps, although would be more ideal to see for yourself I guess. Shaping up to be an interesting season..

Yes indeed, i see Workforce is set for a trial. Hope he goes for the Craven, Stoutes Greenham runners have a terrible record.

Me too, course sighter would be nice

Push I agree about Stoute with the Craven,I understand that C.Blanco will run in the 2000 but they see him as a middle distance colt ie 10/12f.

Just from what i could see from ATR, Cape Blanco does look more like a middle distance horse.

Always looked that sort from last year.

Yeah but at least they thought they'd give him a go over shorter ;)

He's more a trends horse for me anyway, felt he was worth keeping on side whatever I decided in the build up and had a feeling they'd go for the Guineas first up.

Ben I agree he is worth a look and keeping on side.

On pedigree I like Arcano who has plenty of basic speed but should get a mile. Workforce is also interesting as he is by a Guineas winner out of a Sadlers Wells mare so should want 10 furlongs plus in time but might have the speed and stamina for a fast run Guineas.

See Workforce has come in for support today.

Push,Do you think Kings Best is on the back foot as a sire ?I dont like him I have my doubts he is the sort to get a guineas winner, his stock as a rule look the sort that improve with age and being out of a S.Wells mare from such a staying family, I think he will be better off later in the season or poss' a nice four year old.KB has had a few good ones but on the whole imo he has been a bit of a flop.

Sure he has been disappointing, but so have the following sires and they all got 2000 Guineas winners : Turtle Island , Spectrum, Robellino, Bering, Alhaarth, Val Royal, yes some surprising names on that list. I am sure Kings Best can get one good one.

And not forgetting Tagula this year. I'm sure ben will agree :-)

redal,Do you think that after all the years Tagula has been at stud as a cheap speed sire,now he can sire a guineas winner?He has never got anything with that sort of class before,why now?

I'm not sure Canford Cliffs' class should be under discussion :0

Just teasing. I bow to you experts re pedigrees. I just love CC and hoping against hope that he'll be a freak in the Guineas and stay the mile. I know ben and james have been the voices of reason but hey I can dream :-)

redal2,I do like CC I dont think he will last the mile but he is the sort of horse that I would consider useing next year if he goes to stud he looks at the moment the sort to be very commercial at the right price.

He'd seem to be a horse which could sire 2 year olds

I will be staggered if he does not.

See Cape Blancos form is working out with Baglioni winning yesterday.

CB is a big price on here push. 36 and 7.6 the place. I took some of the place odds but might have a go at the win too at those odds. Will he run though?

Prob wont be at his peak fitness for the Guineas, expect him to improve with racing.

Push and Ben 10,less than a month to go now,If you both can summon up the enthusiasm to answer this done to death question who do you think will win the GNS? As you know I think SNA will win HOF if he runs to form imo will be placed,
1st SNA
2nd?
3rd HOF
If it comes to a funny result then HOF winning would not surprise me.

If O Brien had him spot on and fully tuned ( which he wont ) i would go for Fencing Master, but my main hopes now rest with WORKFORCE, although having heavily backed him at 25-1 , i am now laying some of the bet off at 16s and 12-1. Impossible to know how good he is from the 1 race.
I will analyse the race in more detail when we know what the ground and runners will be.

arcano is the one for me should defo stay a mile will love the probable
fast ground and i thought his performance in the prix morny was
awesome. a decent price around 10s as well.
trainer done nothing wrong last year in the race and was a bit unlucky
to bump into a superstar.

Decent price at 10-1 ? Not even confirmed as being aimed at the race yet, he wont be any shorter on the day.

You got the Trend horse right Ben 10, as it is the Racing Posts trend guys selection ( Cape Blanco ) but looks like a non runner.

Unbelievable that Workforce a once raced Maiden winner is into 3rd fave for the 2000 Guineas.

Good Luck to you both with Workforce and Arcano,I wont be to disappointed if Arcano wins as Oasis Dream getting the winner will help one of our mares.

Push

Unbelievable that Workforce a once raced Maiden winner is into 3rd fave for the 2000 Guineas.

Remember Golan in 2001 and Mark of Esteem in 1996 both maiden winners previous to their wins in this race. Both were at the shorter end of the market so it can be done.
SNA apart does this really look like a vintage running??

Prima, too early for me to be naming tricasts, named the forecast last year the day before though ;)
Thought Cityscape would get third last year but he got injured, could be interesting horse this year though; see he's in the Lockinge.
The ground's always really important for me, on good or softer SNA will definitely make the frame but quick ground would shake things up a lot. Arcano and Workforce as named on here look possibles and then maybe put Fencing Master into the mix. I've been a fan of Stunning View since debut and if he took in a trial on quick ground (may have to come over here for that) and went well then they could be persuaded to go for it and he might be one for the frame.
Hearts Of Fire is proven in soft so he'd definitely have a chance on soft with so many quick ground horses in the race.

bland82, Mark of Esteem, was 2nd to Alhaarth in his first race, Alhaarth was the fave for the Guineas that year, so was a good formline, Golan beat Clearing as a 2yo , Clearing went on to be 3rd in the French 2000G, so the form was there. Now i would love Workforce to win the Guineas but at the current price for a once raced horse, with still 4 weeks to go before the Guineas i think 10-1 is too short a price. What price were Golan and MOE 4 weeks before the Guineas, was Golan even in the betting ?

I had no idea Workforce had gone so short, glad I took some 20s when we were discussing it a month ago push! Hopefully it's a case of those in the know taking an overly short price but I certainly couldn't back it now. Arcano should surely be shorter than him.

Yes, but we know Workforce is aiming for the Guineas providing he runs OK in his trial, but Arcano have they not said they are still undiced about his future targets ?
Plus Dicky Hills seems sweet on Awzaan, so maybe they will save Arcano for France ?

push 02 Apr 08:42
Unbelievable that Workforce a once raced Maiden winner is into 3rd fave for the 2000 Guineas.

Push,I'm warming to this one,still think he is going to be better later on take into account his slow pedigree,but saying that think he may get 2nd.

Why have you heard something about his wellbeing ? I see Arcano is now being aimed at the 2000G.

PD, i think you are just trying to jinx Workforce ( like you did Steinbeck ) :)

I see Workforce is now entered in the Derby push

Well the Stoute team always thought Kings Best would stay the Derby trip, ran in the Irish version after having to miss ours, through a setback. If Workforce does run well in the Guineas and gets cut to a short price for the Derby i will be laying him.

Push,would I do such a thing?As for Steinbeck I had know for a while he was never going to NMKT and the Irish was his target,people chose not to accept that news though,Ive not had any news regarding Workforce,

OK, we will just have to see how he does in the trials. 4 weeks to go , and i wake up every day fearing news that Workforce has had a setback, although i have layed quite alot of my stake money off.

Don't worry MR Stoute is about the best in England he's done it before so get some sleep!

Thanks,

Just read on the Sporting Life webpage, Quote from Teddy Grimthorpe" Workforce is a possibility for the 2000 Guineas ( only a possibility ? ) and will probably go straight there.
Certainly would not want to take 10-1 about a horse who is only a possibilty.

Push,with all the bits and pieces of news what with HannonJR saying CC may not get the mile now this news about Workforce do you think SNA will win?

I have him in a Guineas/ Derby double , and a break even single bet for the Guineas, but my judgement is clouded because i dont really want him to win. I think it may be ground dependent, if there is any give in the ground i see no reason why he should not win, but if the ground is G-F , i think it will even things up for the others.

Yeah if there's cut I'd be prepared to withdraw my opposition but can't see him doing what he has done previously on quick ground.
What happened to the trial plan for Workforce, or have I made that up?

Seems Grimthorpe keeps changing his mind, but i would prefer him to go straight to the Guineas.

Yeah I don't mind either way, would have been nice to get a level of his ability to make clearer judgements on the day though.

ST.Nicholas Abbeys sire Montjeu has not had a winner of a group one as 3yo in mile races.

Distances of 1mile 1/4 to 1mile 1/2 ideal for Montjeu offspring at the age of three.

So what!That will change in a few weeks.

Just wonderd if Galileo had a mile Gp 1 winner up to last year guys in RVW?

Irish 1000G winner Nightime.

New Approach 2nd in Irish / English 2000G , and the Bolger trained horses both placed in last years 1000/2000G.

Lush Lashes, did she win one over a mile? She seemed to run over every distance at one point!

How long was Sadlers Wells at Stud before he got a Guineas winner ?

She won the Cornation Stakes over 1 mile RA.

Just checked, she won two actually! One on yielding and one on good too, very good 3 year old filly wasn't she?

Good over a range of distances , very unlucky in the Nassau Stakes, thankfully as i backed the O Brien winner .

Oh yeah, that was awful from Manning :D

The O'Brien filly was tough in fairness to her.

Was Entrepreneur Saddlers Wells first Guineas winner?

Prob his first colt ? Salsabil prob his 1st filly in 1990 to win a Guineas.

From the original list of fancied horses in the betting, Arcano, Kingsfort, Workforce all out , its getting easier by the day for SNA.

Yes you could say that,I can't see SNA getting beat really,but as ive said the dark horse is Hearts of Fire.

Do you think Xtension will improve for the step up in trip from 7f to 1 mile ? I thought he may not train on, but he may be the value in the race, he stayed on well when he won at Goodwood, and looked to be staying on in the Dewhurst, without being quite good enough, but it was his first race since July.

Push,do i think Xtension will stay a mile?Yes. Will he improve for the trip?Perhaps. Is he value?Yes,He is a nice looking horse and on pedigree should get the mile,however his form with Mata Keranjang puts him at least 2.5 lengths behind Hearts Of Fire who we already know stays a mile and improved for the step up. I can't really see any reason why Xtension is a shorter price than HOF other than perhaps trainer/sire,Though Xaar has been no great shakes as a sire and it would be a surprise to see him get a GNS winner,Timeform have Xtension on 116 and HOF on 118 I really do think that HOF is a dark horse and Peslier coming over for that ride is a pointer to his thoughts on the horses ability. I don't really think HOF will win, but it wouldn't totally surprise me if he did.IMO he is the value in the race.

You are right about Xaar not being that good a sire, although Xtension only won the Goodwood race by 2.5 lenghts he was going away at the finish, that is why i think he may need further, there is loads of stamina on the damside of the pedigree. You have HOF , and i will risk Xtension, providing they get there.

ddd

When Xtension finished 3rd in the Dewhurst the stable was out of form no winner from 27 runners, stable seem to be going well now , hope for a big run.

xtension worked at kempton last week, along with dunelight, j reid and border patrol. dunelight led at a decent gallop followed by xtension, a kirby then border patrol. dunelight led into the final furlong then was joined by xtension the pair going by together, border patrol was a length behind. The horses carried level weights and to my eye it was a solid piece of work.

Thanks for that BB.

7-2 looks a good price now, hope it does tomorrow after racing.

St Nicholas Abbey





Sadler's Wells (USA) 1981 11.3f
Montjeu (IRE) 1996 11.5f
Floripedes (FR) 1985
St Nicholas Abbey (IRE) b c 2007
Sure Blade (USA) 1983 10.1f
Leaping Water 1990
Flamenco Wave (USA) 1986




5/4 and looks a good un! :-)

Although St Nick should stay further in time, Montjeu has produced plenty of speed and you need stamina to win over a straight mile in early May. Elusive Pimpernel could have a similar career to another Elusive Quality in Raven's Pass who kept getting beat by a Ballydoyle horse until the autumn when the step up to 10 furlongs and a better temperament could swing the balance his way. The ideal pedigree is probably Inler. Red Ransom doesn't have that many runners but many of them are high class and 8-10 furlongs is their trip and the dam has produced several winners at around this trip.

Hi Ben 10,  first time Cape Blanco has run on G-F today in the Dante, hope you are on at big prices for the Derby.

Nope didn't have any on for today or the Derby (which probably is a good thing given he looks injured). Feel like I've got a fairly good line on the Ballydoyle horses this year though, they just keep putting them in the wrong races ;)

I thought they said he was OK ? layed my stake money off anyway but would like to see him in the Derby, what do you fancy for the Derby, Ben ?

I thought Dante winner would go close but if he isn't fit then obviously look elsewhere. Workforce looked to have an excuse today but as we've said I'm not sure on the Derby trip. Reckon I'm going to leave any bets until the day.

ok Ben but if you find another MAKFI let me know. In the Weekender paper Nick Mordin has come up with an interesting theory about finding the Derby winner, worth a read.