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Fastnet Rock :o
Fastnet Rock :o
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Another Coolmore dud. I could have told you that. He might be siring G1 winners in the southern hemisphere but what are the on? Different rules down there.
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I believe you guys are judging him too prematurely. He has never been a great sire of two year olds in Aust or NZ. He has never led the 2yo sires list or sired a group 1 winner at two. Also, he never won in 8 starts himself at two, but matured enough at three, to win two Group 1 races, against open age sprinters.
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Castiron 26 Oct 13 21:14 Joined: 10 May 04 | Topic/replies: 829 | Blogger: Castiron's blog
I believe you guys are judging him too prematurely. He has never been a great sire of two year olds in Aust or NZ. He has never led the 2yo sires list or sired a group 1 winner at two. Also, he never won in 8 starts himself at two, but matured enough at three, to win two Group 1 races, against open age sprinters. Looking back on his Aus offspring a very valid point bit more sense than the usual anti Coolmore sensationalism from the Gotchee |
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Not anti Coolmore just stating facts.
Some people just can't see through the hype. |
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Good grief -the anti-Coolmore tripe merchants are even on the Bloodstock forum.
They can't find enough barrel bottoms to scrape.  |
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Vubiant,have you something to offer?
The only tripe around here is what comes out of your mouth. I have never yet heard a valid contribution from you since I came on this forum other than smart ar$e remarks. We are all entitled to an opinion whether you like it or not. If you can string a decent contribution together about the merits of the Coolmore operation I would be happy to debate it with you otherwise don't try and ruin this forum like you have with others. Go back to the chit chat forum where your knowledge on Coronation Street, The X factor,Celebrity Big Brother and I'm a Celebrity Get me out of Here is better appreciated. This saying really applies to you: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt" |
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He sired his 14th Group One winner yesterday in NZ, with the three year old Atlante, scoring in the Guineas.
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I get the feeling that at some point next summer when the ground gets firm, Fastnet Rock is going to blast onto the scene with his late developing 3yo's up here.
What I can't fathom is why Coolmore have hardly advertised him over the last three years. Is it me or do they hardly mention/advertise him? Perhaps you Irish chaps have a different take on things? |
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Is it me or do they hardly mention/advertise him?
they advertice him........look at arqana sales in august there was 15 yearlings with good pedigrees... they sold not very well (i had a participation in one yearling) not a lot runner..........even sea the stars had runners and winners !!! |
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Looks like John Warren is getting stuck into Fastnet Rock down at the AUS yearlings sales.
$1.6 million for a colt...nice work if you can get it! |
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A top class sire should produce decent 2 year olds. This dud still has a lot to prove. He has gone from 30k euros to private in the northern hemisphere. Encosta de Lago, if I remember correctly had a similar profile, where is he now?
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Sired his 15th Group One winner, yesterday.
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Perhaps more to the point it's starting to look a bit more promising up here now.
We naysayers might yet have to give best to the Tipperary bullsh1t collective! |
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Top 20 British sires of 2 year olds for 2013 (Jan-Dec) as I have them.
rating, data size, sire 7672 70 Invincible Spirit 7001 37 Oasis Dream 6337 56 Acclamation 5848 15 Street Cry 5012 6 Hurricane Run 4779 3 Monsun 4772 6 Elusive Quality 4664 2 War Front 4651 50 Dubawi 4573 20 Clodovil 4522 6 Fastnet Rock 4224 64 Exceed And Excel 4223 23 Galileo 4188 3 Distorted Humor 4055 1 Henny Hughes 4032 52 Kodiac 3242 36 Kheleyf 3058 27 Sea The Stars 3025 3 Lemon Drop Kid 2976 5 Dynaformer So Fastnet Rock, best of the newbies but not as high as New Approach, Ramonti and Henrythenavigators entrance in 2012. Not to be ignored as they should improve from 2 to 3. |
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How is the rating calculated?
What is "Data Size"? |
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Hi Mr Gotchee,
Fullest explanation is on the website which wont take too much imagination to find, .co.uk Data Size is basically runners but with exclusions through lack of a point of reference. For example one of your favourites from a few years ago SYT, wasn't included as although High Chaparral had plenty of evidence, broodmare sire Tights had none to make a comparison to. |
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Group One winner number 16 today.
A 4yo mare that took it's earnings over $2mil. |
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I see Coolmore have found themselves a potential stallion son of FR which they have been craving; Zululand ($1.5m yearling) 2nd in G1 Champagne Stakes. Could be his 17th top flight winner in the not too distant future...
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Castiron 26 Apr 14 13:03
Group One winner number 16 today. A 4yo mare that took it's earnings over $2mil. These so called Group one wins equate to uncompetitive Listed Class events in the Northern Hemisphere. If you are referring to Driefontain, you will be aware that on her previous run she won a Group 3 beating Platelet by 1 1/4 lengths. Yesterday she beat Platelet by 1 1/4 lengths on the exact same terms but this labelled a Group one event. The racing post ratings for her runs would suggest to me that she is little more than handicap/listed class in the Northern Hemisphere. I don't want to rain on your parade but Fastnet Rock is only an ordinary sire in these parts. If he is really that good why is his stud fee £175,000 in Australia and Private (started off at £30,000) over here? |
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I agree it wasn't one of our top group one races, but every country in world racing, programs these races.
Your suggestion that it would be the equivalent of a listed or handicap race in the NH, is laughable. Ortensia, who raced and won, in these so called second tier Group 1's, showed on numerous occasions she was more than competitive in your Group 1's. |
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FR should have had a nice debut 2yo winner then, Joseph O'Brien too confident on Timbuktu, but she looked classy.
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Wilycayote 28 Apr 14 18:32 Joined: 31 Dec 10 | Topic/replies: 230 | Blogger: Wilycayote's blog
FR should have had a nice debut 2yo winner then, Joseph O'Brien too confident on Timbuktu, but she looked classy. I don't think you can attribute Timbuktu's ability to the influence of Fastnet Rock. The mare, Flashing Green (GREEN DESERT) has already bred three black type performers. The opening post to this thread is as follows; From the post RUNAWAY Epsom Oaks winner Alexandrova heads a strong book of mares visiting Coolmore's reverse shuttler Fastnet Rock this season. The daughter of Sadler's Wells, who was also successful in the Irish and Yorkshire Oaks, is one of 21 Group-winning or stakes-producing mares confirmed to visit the son of Danehill. Other high-profile bookings include All Too Beautiful, an Oaks-placed daughter of Urban Sea, Phoenix Stakes winner Damson and Irish Oaks heroine Moonstone as well as the dams of Araafa, Clodovil, Johannesburg, King Charlemagne, Peeping Fawn, Rumplestiltskin, Thewayyouare and Westphalia. No point doing it in half measures :p Where are all these well bred individuals? |
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The Gotchee has come out with some clangers when it comes to Coolmore sires but Im siding with him here. 180 mares I read (needs checking) and not really much to show so far, Palace probably going to be the best :-/
Got a strong second book so you would be expect a decent 2 year old this year! |
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A lot of people incorrectly tend to attribute the success of a racehorse to the influence of the covering sire when, in fact, it is most likely to be the dam. Henrythenavigator springs to mind.
In the case of Fastnet Rock, he is a complete disaster. He covered some exceptionally well bred and black type producing mares but he has little to show for it. |
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I must have misread the blurb about his 16 group 1 winners and multiple sire sons. I've only done one and she looked like a missile as a foal, little backward now but is a bk1 yearling every time. At least another season surely. PS. Fascinating Rock?
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Dear Gotchee, If you come across any more "disaster stallions" like FR please let me know, I will happily buy it off you!
FYI he covered a pretty small book of average mares for this year's 3yo's, and then a massive increase to 150 quality mares for this year's 2yo's. I don't think Galileo has come up with a decent 2yo yet this season. Oh dear, he must be headed towards disaster too... |
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Did some looking back first year was 81 not 180 as I stated above
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Dear Wileycayote, you call an English Oaks winner an Irish Oaks winner, 21 Group-winning or stakes-producing mares who visited Fastnet Rock in his first Northern Hemisphere roster in 2010 "a pretty small book of average mares"?
If you come across any of these average mares, please let me know, I will happily buy off you. FYI, Galileo has nothing to prove, in the Northern Hemisphere. |
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gotchee is spot on about fastnet rock IN THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE.............obviouly he is a super stud down under but up here he has sired nothing except that weld horse fascinating rock. i dont know why his fee up here is registered as private. o briens 3yo horses this year have been very poor............i wonder is it because of all the good mares they sent to fastnet rock.
magnier wont send any good mares to this sire unless there is a good group 1 winner soon. he doesnt mess around with stallions and will confine this guy to teh south from now on. the minute they dont prove themselves, they are kicked out the door. fugi pegusus and pentre celebre being the exceptions........cause they were acquired for zillions..........dylan thomas is now a NH sire. hawk wing was quickly moved on, one cool cat being another. |
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The irony is that three of his very best sons, Foxwedge, Super Cool and Smart Missile, are out of US bred mares.
Plus we find his two best daughters, Atlantic Jewel having an Irish bred 2nd dam and Mosheen an Irish bred 3rd dam. |
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To blame AOB's bad bunch off 3 year olds on Fastnet Rock is laughable BJD, he only covered 81 mares, so minus the percentage of nature not happening out of the foals that landed on the ground alive all I can see is AOB got 13.
Galileo still got an extremely strong book of mares Blackstone (16/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Blue Dream Dam half sister to Bordighera (dam of George Washington) Cougar Mountain (28/3/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Descant Dam is half sister to Gr.1 winner Zafonic and Gr.3 winner Zamindar Drishti (12/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex American Queen Half brother to two winners, dam half sister to French Listed winner Quartz (11/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Beltisaal Half brother to Racing Post Trophy Gr.1 winner Kingsbarns Red Rocks Point (4/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex My Emma Half brother to Listed winner Moments Of Joy, dam won Yorkshire Oaks Gr.1 Table Rock (31/3/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Small Sacrifice Family of Group 1 winner Trusted Partner and dam of Dress To Thrill The Islander (17/3/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Blue Cloud Half brother to Leopardstown 1000 Guineas Trial Gr.3 winner Empowering Vivat Rex (2/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Strawberry Roan Dam is twice Listed winner and full sister to Oaks winner Imagine Aqua de Vida (22/1/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Delphinium Half sister to Gallinule Stakes Gr.3 winner Hebridean Canary (5/5/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Leonia From family of Germany Gr.1 winners Lando and Laroche Iveragh (28/2/11) - Fastnet Rock x In My Dreams Dam half sister to Rock Of Gibraltar Palace (28/3/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Lady Icarus Half sister to Gr.3 winner Furner's Green Fastnet Rock ex Sea Picture Dam half sister to Yorkshire Oaks Gr.1 winner Hellenic |
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This years so far....
Cape Clear Island Fastnet Rock x Kushnarenkovo (8/5/2012) Shark Island Fastnet Rock x Lady Lupus (22/1/2012) Smuggler's Cove Fastnet Rock x Chenchikova (17/2/2012) Song of Love Fastnet Rock x Delicate Charm (26/1/2012) St. Patrick's Day Fastnet Rock x Race for the Stars Ask Me Nicely Fastnet Rock x Queen Titi (21/2/2012) Belong Fastnet Rock x Leonia (4/5/2012) Diamondsandrubies Fastnet Rock x Quarter Moon (30/4/2012 Echos Of My Mind - Fastnet Rock x In My Dreams (3/3/2012) Qualify - Fastnet Rock x Perihelion (22/4/2012) Terracotta Fastnet Rock x Sacrosanct (22/4/2012) Timbuktu - Fastnet Rock x Flashing Green (7/4/2012) Sea Of Blue - Fastnet Rock x Song Of The Sea (30/4/2012) Unbelievable Fastnet Rock x Maryinsky (6/5/2012) Wandering Fastnet Rock x Piping (13/2/2012) |
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Big chance tomorrow, for Fastnet Rock to rekindle his stud career in the Northern Hemisphere. It will be hard to listen to the hype!!
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actually some more BT with FR!!
is it the start of the NH stallion carrer?? we will SEE the prices at the yarlings sales |
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Well well well.
Coolmore have apparently then sold 75% shares in 9 Northern Hemisphere Fastnet Rock yearlings to Australian Interests. Are we all in agreement that deeds speak louder than words? !! |
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For the book he has had they'd have liked to have seen more you'd think. It was a good summer this year as well so little excuse on that front.
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Sired the winner of The Thousand Guineas today, making it two Group One winning fillies in a week.
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but NOT quite the same success in NH
5 BT winner horses, more than mastercraftman ;-)) |