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ACE KICKER
11 Oct 08 13:38
Joined:
Date Joined: 06 Sep 04
| Topic/replies: 502 | Blogger: ACE KICKER's blog
Just an oratorio filly we have for sale, what you think?

Lot 863

Danehill Danzig
Razyana Oratorio (IRE) Mahrah Vaguely Noble
Montage
Kahyasi Ile de Bourbon
Kadissya

BAY FILLY FOAL
(IRE)
February 2nd, 2008
(First Produce)
Shamsada (IRE)
(2000) Shamawna Darshaan
Shamsana
E.B.F. Nominated.
1st dam
SHAMSADA (IRE): placed 4 times; Above is her first foal.

2nd dam
Shamawna (IRE): 2 wins at 3 in France and £22,704 and placed twice inc. 3rd
Prix de Royaumont, Gr.3; dam of 9 foals; 7 runners; 4 winners inc.:
SHAWANDA (IRE) (f. by Sinndar (IRE)): Champion 3yr old filly in Ireland
in 2005, 5 wins at 3 at home and in France and £313,227 inc. Darley Irish
Oaks, Gr.1, Prix Vermeille-Lucien Barriere, Gr.1, Prix de Royaumont, Gr.3 and
Prix de la Seine, L.; broodmare.
SHAWARA (IRE) (f. by Barathea (IRE)): 2 wins at 3 in France and £29,752 inc.
Prix de Lieurey, L., placed inc. 3rd Prix de la Cochere, L.; dam of a winner:
Shazand (FR): 4 wins, £45,919 inc. 2 wins at 3 in France and placed 3
times inc. 3rd G.P.Beachcomber Paradis-Michel Houyvet, L.
Stairway To Glory (IRE): winner at 3, 2008.
She also has a yearling filly by Sinndar (IRE).

3rd dam
SHAMSANA (USA) (by Nijinsky (CAN)): unraced; dam of 6 foals; 5 runners; 3
winners inc.:
SHAMANIYA (IRE): winner at 3 in France and £38,728 viz. Prix Amandine,
L., placed 2nd Prix Coronation, L. and Prix de Saint-Cyr, L.; dam of a winner:
Shamanara (IRE): winner at 3 in France, 3rd Prix de la Cochere, L.
Shamawna (IRE): see above.
4th dam
SHANIZADEH: 2 wins in France; dam of 8 foals; 6 runners; 5 winners inc.:
SHARAYA (USA): 4 wins at 3 in France and 1,255,000 fr. inc. Trusthouse
Forte Prix Vermeille, Gr.1, Prix de la Nonette, Gr.3 and Prix de Bagatelle, L.,
placed 2nd Prix Saint-Alary, Gr.1 and 3rd Prix de Malleret, Gr.2; dam of
winners; grandam of SANS ADIEU (JPN) (won Centaur S., Gr.2, Keihan
Hai, Gr.3, Ibis Summer Dash, L. and 2nd Sprinters S., Gr.1).
SHARANIYA (USA): 5 wins at 3 and 4 in France and 1,051,470 fr. inc. Grand
Prix d'Evry, Gr.2, Prix Minerve, Gr.3, Prix de Royallieu, Gr.3 and Prix de la
Pepiniere, L., placed inc. 3rd P. Spielbanken des Landes Nord Westfalen, Gr.3,

4th Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud, Gr.1; dam of winners inc.:
Mazaya (IRE): winner at 3 and placed twice inc. 2nd Riggs Bank Harvest S.,
L.; dam of MUNSEF (GB) (4 wins to 2007 and £143,860 inc. Fishpools
Furnishings Godolphin S., L., placed 13 times inc. 2nd stanjamesuk.com
Jockey Club S., Gr.2, Grosvenor Casinos Cumberland Lodge S., Gr.3).
SHANNKARA (IRE): 2 wins at 2 and 3 in France and in U.S.A. and £61,534
inc. Nijana S., Gr.3, placed 2nd Prix des Tuileries, L.; dam of winners inc.:
TEKKEN (IRE): 4 wins in U.S.A. and £157,833 inc. Super Bowl S., L.,
placed 19 times inc. 2nd Jersey Derby, Gr.2, 3rd Hill Prince S., Gr.3, Palm
Beach H., Gr.3 and Bet Twice S., L.; sire.
Stabled in Barn L Box 4
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Report Dudewheresmyvar October 12, 2008 2:59 PM BST
bd castlebridge. link above is the catalogue page sammy.
Report ACE KICKER October 12, 2008 6:16 PM BST
From The Castlebridge Consignment
Report The Gotchee October 13, 2008 9:42 PM BST
Acclamation had a 1997 median of £35,000. Barathea had a1997 median of £30,000. I think those figures are a fairer reflection of the merits of both sires. GG appears to have a great admiration for Acclamation but it is a pity he has to use incomplete and premature statistics to try and drive home his point of view.
Report gorgeousgeorge October 14, 2008 8:27 AM BST
Gotchee. I made it perfectly clear the 2008 medians I quoted were "year to date". I am quite aware that in general medians will come down with more moderate stock on ofer in tatts 2/3/4.

You are right I am an admirer of Acclamation. You need to remember that the yearlings being sold now were from his third crop of mares when he was not very popular and standing at less than half the fee of Barathea. He covered some quite moderate mares to get his numbers up that year(quite typical of a lot of third season stallions) so obviously he will have some weaker offerings over the next 2 weeks.

None of this is central to my main point that Barathea is on the way out as a commercial sire. Believe it or not this is quite hard for me to conclude as I think he is a good sire and in the past he has done me some favours. I also take the point that his genes are just the same as when he was 5 years younger.However, you do not survive in this game by being sentimental. To recommend to another breeder to use Barathea is not IMO very helpful advice.
Report The Gotchee October 14, 2008 10:21 AM BST
GG, I am not disputing your stats, in fact they are crystal clear. The point I was making was your emphasis on showing how well Acclamation was performing compared to Barathea. I think it is fairer to analyse the stats at the end of the year. It is a bit like the the A.C. Milan supporter who thought they won the Champions League Final when they were 3-0 up at half time against Liverpool neglecting to remember that there was another half to play. I am not doubting the potential of Acclamation whereas Barathea has nothing to prove particularly as a broodmare stakes sire.
Report gorgeousgeorge October 14, 2008 12:07 PM BST
Gotchee: Acclamation is quite peripheral to this discussion and I agree with you that a better picture of medians will only be available after all the major sales - and will need to take into account the quality of mares covered and the original nomination price.

The central point here is your advice to have this mare covered by Barathea (I have not suggested she is covered by Acclamation). In my honest opinion that is poor advice. fundamentally a good sire but not one I would want to be going to future sales with.

Could you forget all about Acclamation and get back to who should cover this mare. IMO a decent Barathea back in the pedigree does not compensate the fact that his commercial appeal is fading.
Report Docofthebay October 14, 2008 1:02 PM BST
Is this a commercial mare?

Sold for €18,000 after her debut, proved herself to be thoroughly modest afterwards.
Report gorgeousgeorge October 14, 2008 1:57 PM BST
no idea what she looks like but very commercial on paper. quite a lot has happened since she was sold for 18k - eg shawanda!!.
as long as she is correct certainly a mare i would go with.
Report ACE KICKER October 14, 2008 6:48 PM BST
when we bought shamsada, shawanda was an unnamed yearling filly, hence the 18K euros
Report gorgeousgeorge October 14, 2008 7:54 PM BST
ace kicker: well bought. hope the first y delivers for you.

gotchee: so far 9 baratheas sold at tatts2/3 average 16,556. 5 acclamations average 66,200.
Report The Gotchee October 14, 2008 9:25 PM BST
GG, You are aiming the gun at your foot again. Be careful or you will end up with a limp. Why dont you research the trends rather than spurt out what can only be described as snap shot statistics. If you look at the statistics for the Goffs Million sale a couple of weeks ago you will see both Barathea and Acclamation sold 10 each. Baratheas sold for an average of 53,500 Euros and the mighty Acclamations sold for an average of 49,400 Euros. Could you just answer me one question please? What day did Barathea as you describe, enter the retirement/enthusiast stage that most old stallions reach, yesteday or the day before.
Report gorgeousgeorge October 15, 2008 7:23 AM BST
the medians i quoted earlier that you took exception to were ALL 2008 sales to date. i agree with you that no complete picture will emerge until the end of the season but it still seems very clear to me that acclamation has now taken over as the flagship stallion at Rathbarry - and remember he was covering at a much lower fee than Barathea when this crop were conceived.

there is no ONE day when an elderly stallion enters his "rest home" phase. stallions gradually become uncommercial as they get older (fairly or unfairly is another question) . if this is a trend you are not aware of and you are breeding for the commercial market you will be making some expensive covering choices.

statistically it is a question of watching relative sales returns,numbers covered etc but very few stallions in their late teens avoid the trend. for 2009 i would personally avoid cadeaux genereaux, selkirk - like barathea both fundamentally good sires.

choosing a stallion is an art not a science but you need to be looking forwards not backwards when you do so.
Report The Gotchee October 15, 2008 10:10 AM BST
GG, You have made a fair point.
Report ACE KICKER October 17, 2008 5:37 PM BST
cheers GG
Report Harry Headbanger October 25, 2008 7:50 PM BST
1500 Euro max
Report gorgeousgeorge October 25, 2008 9:48 PM BST
breeders cup wins for rainbow quest and cadeaux genereaux show that old boys can still produce the goods, albeit they lose their commercial appeal.
Report wee sammy November 3, 2008 6:02 PM GMT
Ace Kicker......what have you sent your mare to this year?
Report ACE KICKER November 8, 2008 1:41 PM GMT
she is in foal again to Oratorio
Report wee sammy November 8, 2008 7:26 PM GMT
Must fancy Oratorio for first season honours......
Report The Gotchee November 21, 2008 6:57 PM GMT
Sold for 30,000 Euro, well done.
Report gorgeousgeorge November 21, 2008 10:00 PM GMT
i hope oratorio does well for you as it is an almighty gamble going to the same unproven sire 2 years running.
if he flops as most new sires do you have devalued the mare as well.
IMO opinion i would now go to an absolutely proven sire who gets 2yo winners so (if the worst comes to the worst with oratorio) you can then get the mare back on the road.
hope my caution is misplaced but time for some prudence i reckon.
Report Dudewheresmyvar November 22, 2008 7:44 AM GMT
very well done.
Report notenough November 22, 2008 7:44 AM GMT
Didn't know Rainbow Quest had a Breeders Cup winner this year
Report Dudewheresmyvar November 23, 2008 6:25 AM GMT
I think he meant Group 1 wins (instead of Breeders' Cup wins), given that Crowded House won the Racing Post Trophy on Breeders' Cup day.
Report ACE KICKER March 10, 2009 2:19 PM GMT
she had a another foal last nite in france, another oratorio filly. The mare is over there to be covered by sinndar next.
Report workrider March 10, 2009 5:39 PM GMT
best of luck with her ace kicker .
Report Dudewheresmyvar March 10, 2009 6:27 PM GMT
hope all's well AK. good luck.
Report RipVanWinkle March 10, 2009 10:36 PM GMT
What has Shawanda bred so far
Report Dudewheresmyvar March 10, 2009 11:16 PM GMT
Kingmambo colt foaled Feb 16 last year (first foal)
she was covered by Kingmambo again
Report RipVanWinkle March 11, 2009 10:10 PM GMT
where do you get that
Report ACE KICKER September 4, 2009 2:25 PM BST
She was sold on again as a yearling at 18000 euro profit

B, F, y
Shamsada (Kahyasi) 48,000 EUR Thierry Larriviere 16Aug09 Arquana Sales

They think she is going to be a nice filly
Report ACE KICKER September 4, 2009 2:25 PM BST
She was sold on again as a yearling at 18000 euro profit

B, F, y
Shamsada (Kahyasi) 48,000 EUR Thierry Larriviere 16Aug09 Arquana Sales

They think she is going to be a nice filly
Report ACE KICKER September 4, 2009 2:25 PM BST
She was sold on again as a yearling at 18000 euro profit

B, F, y
Shamsada (Kahyasi) 48,000 EUR Thierry Larriviere 16Aug09 Arquana Sales

They think she is going to be a nice filly
Report ACE KICKER April 8, 2010 11:30 PM BST
just had our first colt by sinndar a half hour ago.
Report RipVanWinkle April 8, 2010 11:39 PM BST
Well done i had a filly last night we've had a few and we still have a few to go you cant beat the excitement of it
Report ACE KICKER April 8, 2010 11:46 PM BST
cheers, should be an exciting year with the first one we sold due to run in france shortly, the second yearling foal to sell and with shawanda's first foal to run as well.
Report RipVanWinkle April 8, 2010 11:49 PM BST
What you going covering her with
Report ACE KICKER April 8, 2010 11:53 PM BST
nothing has been decided yet, need something with some speed.
Report ACE KICKER April 8, 2010 11:57 PM BST
danehill dancer would be my choice if we had the dosh
Report RipVanWinkle April 9, 2010 12:02 AM BST
Why not try Shardal alhough that might be a risk if her filly to run this year and the filly next year turn out to be disappointing.How much are you willing to spend to cover her there are some good deals. You should be able to sell the colt out of Sinndar for quite a bit
Report RipVanWinkle April 9, 2010 12:04 AM BST
ment shamardal
Report ACE KICKER April 9, 2010 12:13 AM BST
I'd say around 12-14k or maybe if we could get a foal share go for one of the more expensive stallions. We need this filly to win a race or two in france.
Report RipVanWinkle April 9, 2010 12:26 AM BST
I suppose it's enough to be spending foal shares are ok we've never had one but they can work well.
What stallions are on your list
Report GRIZLY April 9, 2010 12:40 AM BST
ZAMINDAR kahyasi works well :)
Report RipVanWinkle April 9, 2010 12:44 AM BST
I was thinking that but his median isn't great and he's not really commercial.
Report GRIZLY April 9, 2010 12:48 AM BST
LITTLE Libretto became the first winner for Librettist when edging out stable-mate Bajan Bullet in the novice race at Nottingham on Wednesday.

The David Evans-trained filly was making her second start after finishing an encouraging fifth to Chiswick Bay in the Brocklesby ten days ago. She is the only runner to date by Librettist, a Group 1-winning half-brother to Dubai Destination.

Bred by Agricola Dell 'Olmo in Ireland, Little Libretto is the first foal out of Sharadayna, an unraced Priolo granddaughter of Prix Vermeille winner Sharaya. She was sold for €7,000 to agent Peter Doyle at last year's Tattersalls Ireland September Yearling Sale.


nice boost for your broodmare :)
Report ACE KICKER April 9, 2010 1:28 PM BST
will have to have a meeting to decide next step.
Report ACE KICKER April 17, 2010 8:35 PM BST
our first foal is entered up next week in france.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.france-galop.com/&ei=iwvKS7ecN574mwPTiv2_BA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAoQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DGALLOP.FR%26hl%3Den
Report ACE KICKER April 17, 2010 8:36 PM BST
Its called Miss Oratorio
Report Panther65 April 19, 2010 6:24 PM BST
jjj
Report Panther65 April 21, 2010 3:51 PM BST
jjj
Report ACE KICKER April 25, 2010 2:11 PM BST
She won, Miss oratorio won, get inn. First time out.

http://www2.france-galop.com/fgweb/Domaines/Courses/course_detail.aspx?aaCrse=2010&spCrse=P&numCrsePgm=03903
Report GRIZLY April 25, 2010 2:50 PM BST
well done :)
Report wee sammy April 25, 2010 3:37 PM BST
Well done Ace Kicker......good performance especially over 5f the sire has had only one other winner at the trip so the fact that your mare is so stoutly bred makes that effort more meritorius.....stick to those Danehill horses with those kahaysi mares !
Report ACE KICKER April 25, 2010 4:40 PM BST
cheers. Yes sammy very good performance over the trip, hopefully better things to come. Looking like wee have a very good broodmare.
Report redal2 April 25, 2010 5:02 PM BST
Well done Ace Kicker, happy for you. Hope she goes on to do good things for you
Report RipVanWinkle April 25, 2010 8:24 PM BST
Have you decided what to cover her with
Report ACE KICKER April 25, 2010 9:19 PM BST
no, meeting tomorrow nite, because she will be coming into season in a week or two, we are a bit behind.

My list is:

1. Shamardal 20,000 euro
2. Medicean £15,000
3. Kyllachy £10,000

They could all be booked up cause we foaled late. I really like shamardal, has real battling qualities like his sire giants causeway. He beat oratorio at two and three in the dewhurst and st james palace stakes. His foals seem to be making good money and he's doing very well at stud.
Report ACE KICKER April 25, 2010 9:29 PM BST
just realised you had mentioned shamardal.
Report RipVanWinkle April 25, 2010 10:02 PM BST
If i were you i would stay away from 2 and 3. I was ment to have one going to Medicean but she's not going now and to be honest i'm glad.

Shamardal i do like very much and would rate him very highly. Have you considered using any Danehill stallions as it seems to have clicked so far although it is very early yet. Maybe a young stallion that was a very good 2year old could be an option for you.
Report potentialmillionaire April 25, 2010 10:10 PM BST
Those 3 you mention are technically full. They certainly weren't available earlier on. It will be interesting to see if any of them are free'ed up for late foalers. Keep us informed! In fairness I would have reservations on them but they all have solid qualities aswell and all do breed plenty of winners.
Report RipVanWinkle April 25, 2010 10:15 PM BST
I think there are some places for late foalers. We had our Shamardal booked since early on.

What are the other stallions on your list AK
Report ACE KICKER April 25, 2010 10:25 PM BST
if you stick to the danehill route i suppose you would have exceed and excel £12,000 who would be of much interest. Duke of Maralade is too expensive at £30,000 euro it would seem or rock of gilbraltair 22,500 euro.
Report RipVanWinkle April 25, 2010 10:30 PM BST
The Rock is a bit cold and with no 2 year olds this year when your selling next year there will be nothing to boost up The Rock. Have you considered Dylan Thomas or why not go back to Oratorio. Coolmores other horses are going through tough times in there careers like Holy Roman Emperor and Hurricane Run.

A horse that SNS rates very highly is Fastnet Rock his price i think depends on your mare but i would expect to be paying over €30000
Report ACE KICKER April 25, 2010 10:34 PM BST
Let u know how 2moro nite goes, all should be much clearer, could well be better steering clear of coolmore because the arabs wont buy there horses.
Report ACE KICKER April 25, 2010 10:37 PM BST
fastnet rock is 94,400 euro
Report RipVanWinkle April 25, 2010 10:39 PM BST
It depends on the mare
Report ACE KICKER April 25, 2010 10:43 PM BST
were are you based rip, do you breed many mares?
Report RipVanWinkle April 25, 2010 10:46 PM BST
Based in ireland between the family we have about 15 mares which are covered mostly with stallions based here in ireland the occasional few do travel to England to be covered. We sell most of the produce which keeps everything running.

Were are you based AK
Report Prima Donna April 25, 2010 10:49 PM BST
Ace Kicker,We have a mare covered this year by Fastnet Rock,who told you his fee was 94,000euro?the price we got him at is in Rip Vans region
Report ACE KICKER April 25, 2010 10:50 PM BST
up north, just have this mare, bought her from john oxx at the sales for 18,000 euro to race with, then shawanda happened to spring from the wordwork, so just breeding from her.
Report ACE KICKER April 25, 2010 10:51 PM BST
just read this in the post

http://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/stallionbook/stallion_home.sd?horse_id=...
Report RipVanWinkle April 25, 2010 10:54 PM BST
Thats in Australia totally different when he's based up here for northern hemisphere covering. He may well be worth looking at although he may be outside your price range but they should sell very well it may well be a risk worth taking
Report Prima Donna April 25, 2010 10:55 PM BST
Ace Kicker,That is his AUS'price converted into euro's,he is a great prospect give them a ring he would be a good choice,he is a lot lot less than 94000 over here.
Report ACE KICKER April 25, 2010 10:55 PM BST
they might well do a foal share since we been with them twice.
Report RipVanWinkle April 25, 2010 10:57 PM BST
That is something you could consider but the way his progeny are progressing down under you might not have a problem selling one by him anyways
Report ACE KICKER April 27, 2010 1:25 PM BST
I dont want to jump the fence yet, but it looks like were set to go to foxrock net @ 35,000 euro, feel he is better value than duke of marmalade who we can get for 23,000 euro as he is an established sire. Its still a risk nonetheless at that money, but seems to most logical route. He has only got 60 mares to cover and 20 of them are coolmores own, you would have thought he would have had alot more.

I watched some of his races on youtube, the jockey that rode him was a useless plank, he should have won alot more group ones.
Report Prima Donna April 27, 2010 4:49 PM BST
duke of marmalade who we can get for 23,000 euro as he is an established sire. Its still a risk nonetheless at that money, but seems to most logical route. He has only got 60 mares to cover and 20 of them are coolmores own, you would have thought he would have had alot more.
Ace Kicker,Duke of Marmalade is not really an established sire yet,he is more of a risk at this stage than Fastnet Rock,who is proven (in AUS) speed will always sell,another point to note is FR went to stud at Coolmore Ireland late im sure most mating plans were already in place by the time it was announced,Good luck with your mare,I think thats a very good choice,he is sure to sell very well,Duke of Marmalade is a plain old boat imo.
Report ACE KICKER April 27, 2010 5:26 PM BST
I think you misread my comments prima, i was saying fastnet rock was the established sire.
Report ACE KICKER April 27, 2010 5:30 PM BST
thanks, a bit of luck goes along way in the breeding game.
Report Prima Donna April 27, 2010 5:38 PM BST
Sorry Ace I did read your post wrong,I don't think you will go far wrong with Fastnet Rock,Good Luck.
Report RipVanWinkle April 27, 2010 7:54 PM BST
Good luck Ace Kicker wish you the best of luck with her dont tell anyone that someone on the betfair forum told you to cover with him if the result of the mating turns out good :)
Report potentialmillionaire April 27, 2010 8:23 PM BST
Just one worry with Fastnet - Encosta deLago Reset Starcraft Choisir Danewin Testa Rossa Flying Spur Danzero Octagonal et al.
Reverse shuttlers carry a risk. I don't see Coolmore falling over themselves to buy them as they don't appear to be in it for the long term with this horse over here. Also our partisan trainers like to be familiar with their stallions.By all accounts the horse is an ordinary looker too. Anyway, apologies if you've signed on the dotted already, ignore me I have been known to be wrong!!!!
Report ACE KICKER April 27, 2010 9:08 PM BST
he is a plain looking sort but he is some brut of a horse and would not compare to the likes of oratorio, who is a bit of a weed when it comes to height. I would tend to disagree with the statement on the patisan trainers, i would think there would be a buzz around the sales yards with his first crop in the northern hemisphere in the sales ring.

Cheer rvp.
Report RipVanWinkle April 27, 2010 9:22 PM BST
Let me know how she gets on i would love to have one going to him this year.
Report ACE KICKER April 27, 2010 9:40 PM BST
will do.
Report potentialmillionaire April 27, 2010 9:53 PM BST
Good luck, I hope it goes well, and crucially as he's not got a massive book, you'll hopefully not find him hopelessly busy like most horses at this time of year!
Report Prima Donna April 27, 2010 9:53 PM BST
We want a filly from the Fastnet Rock covering,he will give us a very nice easy to cover route into Danehill,I reckon he will be sought after at both the yearling and foal sales,well bred filly's by him will be in demand later as broodmares,Some of the Danehills can be a bit on the plainish side.
Report potentialmillionaire April 28, 2010 8:31 PM BST
Sorry Prima, but I'm a bit thick. You say you'd like a Redoutes filly particularly as a way into Danehill. Looking down the line, wouldn't a Danehill line mare be not the easiest to mate? I'm not an inbreeding type myself but would you be looking to cross back to all the other Danehill stallions?
Report RipVanWinkle April 28, 2010 9:48 PM BST
It's Fastnet Rock and i'd say they want to cross her with something else on the Danehill line
Report potentialmillionaire April 28, 2010 10:14 PM BST
Duh, Fastnet Rock indeed!! I don't see Redoutes Choice coming over any time soon, I'll try and sharpen up!
Report Slick'N'Smooth April 28, 2010 10:21 PM BST
I will reply as my Husband is on his way to the US.

I have used FR as he is good sized,strong looking, and proven while also being a new face to take in the ring.

He is also a new, fast ,route into Danehill, which is why I would not be disappointed with a filly, and that is the main aim. However I am sure a colt would be very saleable. Coolmore have supported him with some of their very good mares and whilst this may not in itself indicate a long term interest in the sire, it does demonstrate to me that they share the view that he could be a viable 'outcross' for the European breeders looking for Danehilll blood in the future. Therefore they are trying to breed a Stallion from him IMO.

As for future matings Potential Millionaire, a FR filly would offer more options than a Danehill, purely as she is one generation further removed.I could not comfortably mate a daughter of Danehill to a son of Danehill Dancer (or DD himself) but a daughter of FR and therefore a grand-daughter of Danehill would sit nicely with a son of DD. I have retained a filly by Amadeus Wolf for the same reasons.

I do like the DD line and I think he will prove himself a useful sire of sires. His best bred sons are yet to come on-stream and I am sticking with my opinion that he will only improve on that front.

Fastnet Rock's lack of numbers is due in a large part to his late arrival. I know I had to do some juggling to get a mare for him. Unfortunately the mare that would have been absolutely perfect for him was already allocated so I had to use a second choice as it were.

Ace Kicker, best of luck with your Fastnet Rock covering and congratulations on your winner. Oratorio is a stallion I liked a lot and I have had several by him.
Report ACE KICKER April 29, 2010 1:01 AM BST
Thanks, well we have a full sister to that winner too, who will be going to the yearling sales in oct and a lovely big colt foal by sinndar out of the mare too, who is a 3 parts brother to Shawanda.
Report potentialmillionaire April 29, 2010 12:01 PM BST
Thanks Slick, for that interesting answer. It's a sign of where we are right now that it's different lines of Danehill that are seeked as 'new' avenues I suppose. I am still trying to avoid his grandad!
which has left me with mares that are easy to mate I suppose. I cannot bring myself to do purely commercial matings and don't like inbreeding too much but whilst I hope that stands me in good stead for the future it doesn't always make for excitement at Park Paddocks!
Report Slick'N'Smooth April 29, 2010 10:18 PM BST
Potential Millionaire, It is hard to balance commercial coverings and the slightly more 'idealistic' coverings I know. I have been saying for several years now that we are fast painting ourselves into a corner with Danehill and Sadlers Wells, but rightly or wrongly you need those names on the catalogue page.

Lanwades have tried to broaden the sire lines available , but unfortunately it is hard to be commercial with these 'outcrossy' pedigrees.

Personally I do use some linebreeding and I am laying the foundations for my Broodmare band in years to come. I am sure there will be a saturation point with Danehill as there was with his grand-father, but hopefully by using less conventional routes to him I am still keeping my options as wide as they can be. Amadeus Wolf in particular holds appeal as there is unlikely to be a huge amount of Mozart related stock around in 5-10 years time!

I have ttt'd the Fastnet Rock thread for you as I explained myself more coherently on that thread ;-)
Report Warrackhunt May 10, 2010 12:42 AM BST
.
Report ACE KICKER May 30, 2010 12:38 PM BST
Scan on thurs confirmed the mare is in foal to Fastnet Rock.
Report RipVanWinkle May 30, 2010 12:41 PM BST
Best of luck AK.
Report potentialmillionaire May 30, 2010 9:17 PM BST
Well done A.K. it seems like you've been given a nice bag of sweeties this spring!! I'm trying not to chew on my sour grapes!!
Report ACE KICKER June 1, 2010 2:37 PM BST
cheers, lets see what the sales bring in oct time!
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