Good stuff. Looking forward to seeing him.

STELLAR MANIPULATOR 25 Mar 21:21
he has been somewhat disapointing relative to expectations entering stud but he is the sire of the current KY Derby fav Eskerendaya



Giant Strides 25 Mar 23:08
I think it`s fair to say GC has not delivered on his initial promise, particularly in Europe.
His first crop was exceptional but now he seems more likely to sire a champion chase winner than a Gr1 miler!


Eh where have these statements been pulled from? How can the leading sire in the States and leading stakes sire be disappointing.
He is now showing like his sire he is a sire of sires too.

The champion chase winner more than a grp one miler wtf is this about. He had the top female miler last year in the UK the classic winning Ghannti.

Not to bad for a sire that doesnt even stand in Europe.

That Esk will be bought by Coolmore i would imagine. The owner has big financial problems

Eh where have these statements been pulled from? How can the leading sire in the States and leading stakes sire be disappointing.
He is now showing like his sire he is a sire of sires too.

The champion chase winner more than a grp one miler wtf is this about. He had the top female miler last year in the UK the classic winning Ghannti.

Not to bad for a sire that doesnt even stand in Europe.

jmc27. Stats dont lie and he has performed well in North America, but Ghanaati was his first horse of note in Europe since his first crop, 4 years previously. Thats not especially noteworthy, is it? Also. Given she won a 1000G on her first turf start I don`t think it was much to expect her to improve and she didn`t.
The APOB 2yo thread probably answers your question without my need. He has only one GC 2yo in his string this year! If he was my stallion and he was that good I`d like to think I run more than one of his offspring! I dont think they have 30 more Galileos for the good of their health!
As for the Champion Chase reference. He was sire of last years Champion Bumper, and this years Albert Bartlett fav, the November Handicap winner, Rite of Passage.
He sires plenty of NH winners if you hadn`t noticed.

Giants Causeway seems to have found his niche in America.....they cant have it all. Who needs him anyways to have good crops in Europe. If Montjeu/Galileo/Danehill Dancer wasnt good enough with Holy Roman/Dylan Thomas/Duke/Henry/MC all coming through not to mention current sire's racing like St Nick RVW etc etc.

Really they have the whole thing packaged beautifully....couldn't have wished or asked for more success than they are getting.

Lets not be too picky..;). Life never works out the way one Plans

Giant Strides 04 Apr 19:09

jmc27. Stats dont lie and he has performed well in North America, but Ghanaati was his first horse of note in Europe since his first crop, 4 years previously. Thats not especially noteworthy, is it? Also. Given she won a 1000G on her first turf start I don`t think it was much to expect her to improve and she didn`t.
The APOB 2yo thread probably answers your question without my need. He has only one GC 2yo in his string this year! If he was my stallion and he was that good I`d like to think I run more than one of his offspring! I dont think they have 30 more Galileos for the good of their health!
As for the Champion Chase reference. He was sire of last years Champion Bumper, and this years Albert Bartlett fav, the November Handicap winner, Rite of Passage.
He sires plenty of NH winners if you hadn`t noticed.


Giant Strides I think your really struggling here to see the point why a Breeder Cup Classic second son of Storm Cat out of the fastest winner of the Turway BC distaff and a dirt graded winner at 2-3-4 is based at Ashford and isnt been marketed here. He stood in Ireland for HIS FIRST AND ONLY season that crop he got Shamardal, Footstepsinthesand and Maids Causeway. Now with that start he could have stayed here but why when he appeals so much to one market the USA. Now ask yourself this how many Galileos do Coolmore run in America? You seeing a pattern here?

BTW your point about NH is pointless plenty of flat sires get NH horses, just because they have a Cheltenham fav doesnt make him a NH sire.

Well you obviously don`t see my point then. How many A.P Indys or Mr Greeleys do you see running under NH rules in comparison. Are they not U.S based dirt sires?
Yesterday he had a slow bumper winner failing to win a 3 mile h`cap hurdle off 98 around Fakenham. For one who stands in America he gets his fair share of runners that end up in ploughed British and Irish fields during the winter.
His first crop was met with a very mixed reaction in the sales ring considering the incredible book of mares he had and it was a surprise they did so well. He was the sexiest option for breeders in years given his pedigree looks and ability. I`m sure you`ll agree he hasn`t reached anywhere near those first season heights since.
The point about Galileos progeny is moot. He`s a turf sire like his father before. He couldn`t raise a leg in the B.C Classic so racing his progeny over there where turf racing is a poor 2nd wouldn`t make much sense to me. I`d imagine thats exactly what Coolmore think too.
APOB is their preeminent trainer. He gets the best and the others get the rest, thats the way I view it , and they cant appear to find even a half decent offspring of his.
This is trivial, but I presume you meant "come back here" not "stay", because he was standing in the U.S. for a couple of years before Shamardal etc came along?
So he was born to be a dirt sire and stand over there, yet Eskendereya is his first classic crop dirt horse of note in 7 years and you`re arguing before he even delivers on that promise! Thats pretty average in my book considering the numbers he`s sired.
My favourite ever racehorse, but as a stallion, the jury is still well and truly deliberating.

I`d beg to differ.

Why is that now GS. I think you need to start going out and about in the Bloodstock world and stop getting all your news on the net

Sorry theres two ways of spelling it i just mixed them up you really do think you know it all wake up good man

I'm not arguing with you about Giants Causeway failing to deliver as a stallion as i agree he has lived up to what was expected of him. I was on about the horses that Aidan O'Brien gets as yes i thought to that he got the best GC's that come to Europe and that probably is the case but the very best of GC off spring stay in America.Most of these are owned by the men behind Ballydoyle and are in different names.
To tell the truth i'm actually staying up waiting for a mare to foal and this is kind of strange but the mare is in foal to Shamardal who is a son of Giants Causeway that is the reason i went onto this thread in the first place.

Fair enough rvw. Hope everything went well.
I think it would be safe to say he/she wont end up with APOB!

Giant Strides 06 Apr 09:58
Well you obviously don`t see my point then. How many A.P Indys or Mr Greeleys do you see running under NH rules in comparison. Are they not U.S based dirt sires?
Yesterday he had a slow bumper winner failing to win a 3 mile h`cap hurdle off 98 around Fakenham. For one who stands in America he gets his fair share of runners that end up in ploughed British and Irish fields during the winter.

Ap Indy gets a runner on the flat if your lucky in a year over here ffs where is his appeal to European buyers who want to race in European races. Most NH runners these days are flat cast offs or if you look at the leading NH sires in UK and Eire they are flat horses and your giving out about Giants Causeway and your using Mr Greeley as an example :o. Im confident people UK side hadnt heard of Mr Greeley till Finsceal Bio.
The NH argument you are using is pointless anyway. Your champion chase over a grp1 miler reference is a joke based on a Cheltenham fav v Ghannti, Internallyflawless and Cowboy Cal (9f) last year

His first crop was met with a very mixed reaction in the sales ring considering the incredible book of mares he had and it was a surprise they did so well. .

What? Some evidence of this please

The point about Galileos progeny is moot. He`s a turf sire like his father before. He couldn`t raise a leg in the B.C Classic so racing his progeny over there where turf racing is a poor 2nd wouldn`t make much sense to me. I`d imagine thats exactly what Coolmore think too.
APOB is their preeminent trainer. He gets the best and the others get the rest, thats the way I view it , and they cant appear to find even a half decent offspring of his.

If its so moot why are you going on about Giants Causeway in Europe turf races then!
Aidan OBrien 1st crop Guineas winner. Of course APOB gets the top horses but horses that suit European racing the last few years. Todd Pletcher is their man stateside just look at where their expensive dirt breed sales purchases have gone the last few years.

This is trivial, but I presume you meant "come back here" not "stay", because he was standing in the U.S. for a couple of years before Shamardal etc came along?
Trivial you ahve done plenty yourself!

So he was born to be a dirt sire and stand over there, yet Eskendereya is his first classic crop dirt horse of note in 7 years and you`re arguing before he even delivers on that promise! Thats pretty average in my book considering the numbers he`s sired.

Where have you pulled that from Noble Causeway and First Samurai, where all low in the betting for triple crown races.
If your argument is based around siring Kentucky derby or Triple Crown winners well you mustnt think much of his sire Storm Cat then either it took him a long time to get a classic winner in the States as for his Kentucky record. American breeders as much look for millionaire makers as classic winners.

Giants Causeway like his legendary sire Storm Cat and his Storm Cats dam sire Secretariat passes on the genes and if any of his first season sires stateside take off like Shamardal did here last year Giants Causeway is going be a very successful sire.

These Coolmore mega sires can suffer massively from their massive books. Their ability to hack buyers/trainers off almost immediately because they've all trained a slow one soon enough and they then get to pick from so many good bad and indifferent at the sales. If you pile 'em high (mares) then you get to sell 'em cheap. A lot of G.C. yearlings don't walk and we love a good walk at the sales over here. Dirt horses have to dig deep into their surface and G.C. has that blocky U.S. style shoulder that suits, he is in the right place, for sure. They are never going to turn him into Gallileo / A.P.Indy as he lacks consistency and we know that Coolmore doesn't rate exclusivity either!

Rip Van, I had a FILLY on Monday morning at 10.45 (the only upside) 363 days. Hope there's not a pattern here and you can get some sleep soon!

Congratulations. Hope she wins if you keep hold of her.

She's going back to him again. Alot of our matings have been changed from what i said on the Ghost Town thread it's prob the first year we've changed a few during the time when mares are getting covered even though the contracts have been signed

I`ve taken a fair bashing on this thread!
I must admit, I`ve probably been overly harsh on his performance thus far. I think it`s because there`s an element of disappointment involved. After his first season I was eagerly anticipating his subsequent crops and I really felt he was going backwards, by and large, with his European runners.
Tony Morris, whose views I always respect, reviewed Eskendereya pedigree in Thursdays RP, and he appears to have changed his tune re GC. Not a glowing tribute but a healthy respect of his achievements especially in North America. That`ll do for me.
By the way, todays good Gr2 Lonchamp winner and prospective classic filly Planteur has a familiar damsire!

No Kentucky Derby win this year either. Fav out.

9/4 Fav Najoum beaten tonight in the 18:50