A ghost town!

I'll have a crack at being a bit more active. I've been in and out of the country for the last couple of months, so I've had to tone down the old betting, especially as a lot of that time was in the Emirates.

Prima Donna , seen you over on the anti post forum, you get much more action over there. Mainly without the dross of the main horse racing forum.

Cheers Prima Donna. I'm abroad at the moment but will have a look at those sales

Prima Donna 03 Jan 21:14 whats happend to the forum posters?
this forum has been dead for weeks what is going on?

WAS NEVER EVER busy

Not as busy as some of the forums maybe,but you must acknowledge that there was plenty of chat on here,I dont know whats happend to all the posters,but stealing it for your cheltenham threads wont help.Whats the matter with useing the cheltenham 2010 forum,I for one would not be so rude as to post my BB stuff on your forum!

Popeye,Ive had a quick look at the Feb sale at Tatts,not a great deal in it,one mare looks ok she is lot No52,by a good boodmare sire in Warning, and from the family of Oasis Dream.Her dam is a S.Wells H,sister to Hope,dam also of Zenda,she is infoal to Zamindar so the foal is very closely bred to Zenda,thats a chance to get some top Juddmonte breeding see what you think.

I like lot 61. Plenty on page happening and decent like racehorse. Any ideas on price for this one Prima

Thanks guys. Will look at catalogue as I see it's online

Young Filly,Looking at lot 61,she looks a good prospect.One thing I dont like is her sire Lujain,due to the fact he was a cheap Darley sire who only really got dross and has been a flop I cant see him making it as a broodmare sire,but that said she does look alright,looking at her again maybe id keep her on the list but value wise id say 20/25k.But that goes without saying she has to be a good sort.Are you looking to buy another?

no not this year unless i sell my mare in foal to Firebreak. Trying to get some more land near to home and then maybe expand but such a tough market its unlikely

WAS NEVER EVER busy

Thank you for your contribution Catchme',in keeping this forum going

I do have an interest ;)

Oh do you! Whats that then putting your Cheltenham stats on a breeding forum?

Have you bred a Cheltenham winner Prima? Just out of interest.

Ben,No ive never bred a festival winner but a few of mine have won at the course!

Cheers Prima

JUST keeping this forum going

PD, are your horses National Hunt, or do you have flat bred horses also ? If yes which flat sires do you send your mares to ?

Push,I breed both,ive got some good jump mares which this year are all going to Ireland.The flat mares are mostly middle market types,this year I will be useing Bushranger,I may send one to Baltic King and or Kodiac one of them is going to the new Juddmonte sire Champs Elysees,I did like him very much.I only have four flat mares,but have bred a listed winner and a GR2 placed colt,but my jumpers have been much better to date but I do love both,do you breed any Push?If so what are you useing?

No PD i dont have the money to spend on that, i did have a couple of horses one being a very nice Arab gelding. I very much like the pedigree of Champs Elylees , i have kept a close eye on the family his dam has produced 5 Grp 1 winners. Best of luck with your breeding operation and mating plans , i will take a closer look at the stallion choices later.
Thanks.

PD, i would say you like the Danehill sire line .

Yes Push I do. BTW what are your thoughts on Fastnet Rock? (new Coolmore Danehill stallion)

Plenty of speed in his pedigree, very consistant on the racecourse, with a preference for softer ground. Not sure about Royal Acadamy in his pedigree. What do you think and how much is his stud fee ?

It is interesting to see this horse's (Fastnet Rock) name come up.

He is a stallion I am interested in. Being a son of Danehill and a sprinter holds obvious attractions and he is a good compromise between a 'proven' sire and a 'new face' at the same time. I have a maiden mare who would suit a Danehill line, and the size of FR is a bonus for a first foal. Some of the sprinter Danehills are on the small side and I do not want a midget of a first foal!

I haven't as yet enquired about price, but I suspect as he is advertised O/A that they will negotiate per mare. They will want to give the horse a credible chance, esp as he is so popular in Aus, they will not want him to be percieved as a flop here. I did see int eh press that they are looking at only 50-60 mares for him, so I am not expecting a bargin price! If they were just trying to get plenty of patronage then he would be very negotiable I would imagine. Another reason for O/A could be to gague the level of interest before setting a price, though the scenario above is more likely imo.

Whether FR is a one season horse remains to be seen, but I think he offers an unusual route into Danehill (as does Amadeus Wolf, via his sire Mozart, I have said in previous posts ;-) ) in respect of that if I send a mare, the maiden or not, I shall hope for a filly for a change! That filly could then be a useful cross to Danehill Dancer sons.

It is a shame that Coolmore have left it so late to annouce his Irish season, my mares are allocated before Xmas and I have one that would be ideal for FR but is already signed up to another horse. Therefore if I want to use him I only have a late-foaling mare I was intending to rest, or the maiden who may have stayed in training. But if he is to be one season only I need to take advantage.

Just had a look at FR , very popular in Aus, standing at a fee 2009 of 60,500 dollars. Timeform rating of 127, already 6 stakes winners.
Looks like a really solid specimen.

Holy Roman Emperor will have his first 2yo runners this year , will be interesting to see how they perform on the racecourse.

Tally Ho Stud , PD. I like the pedigree of Kodiac a Danehill half brother to an already good young sire in Invincible Spirit. Plus a pretty good race record 4th in the Grp 1 Prix Maurice de Gheest.

Push,F.Rock does look a nice sort I dont know myself yet how much he will be this season,I agree pretty much with what Slick'n'Smooth has said about him,being out of a Royal Acadamy mare would not be a problem for me I dont think he has been brilliant,and you might get some size,but I could think of worse B.mare sires,I too like Kodiac and his pedigree 3e fee you are taking a chance but that goes for all of them,Baltic King is a super looking stallion and as a son of Danetime out of a good mare he has a similar profile to his sire I very much like him I know Hughie Morrisson his trainer and he always says he was one of the toughest and soundest colts he ever had,I dont know which of these to use so I may use both!

Slick what have you the mare booked to if it's another Coolmore horse they might let you change the horse it happened to me at a smaller stud a few years back

Unfortunately Rip the 'ideal' mare is going to another stud. However, a couple of mine are going across to Coolmore, so I will have a chat with the Boys this week.

Who is on your list this year Rip?

Between myself my brother and my father we have mares going to

Flat:
Strategic Prince-Hopefully a good 2yr old
Amadeus Wolf-I gave the recommendation after listening to Slick
Shamardal-Had 1 last year by him
Medicean-Sold well
Holy Roman Emperor-Hopefully a good year ahead
Bushranger-I wouldn't be gone on him
Aussie Rules-Love the pedigree
High Chaparall-She was covered to him last year said we'd go back
Oratorio-Has bred good with Danehills
Moss Vale-Mare is hard to get in foal
Iffraaj x2-Two old mares


National Hunt:
Scorpion-Thought he had good foals
Germany-Had a nice one out of another mare by him
Milan-There going well now

I only own 4 of those mares and there all the low covering fees.

Fastnet Rock horse Wanted 2nd in the Aus Grp1 5f sprint Coolmore Lightning Stakes.

Heard a suggestion that Fastnet Rock may be confined to Coolmore mares only

Spoken to the Coolmore Boys today and FR doesn't have a final price yet. However they did tell me that he will be in the ballpark of 35-50k. They didn't say he was restriced to any particular mares, but they would be very happy to take the one I put up for him ;-)

Rip Van Winkle, some good choices there. Why the doubts about Bushranger? I have one going to him. I like the Danetime aspect and he was a thumping good 2yo. Has speed all through his pedigree even if it is light on class. A good looking, muscular little horse.

I was very pleased with my Amadeus Wolf foal and so I am sending another to him.

Strategic Prince is a good looking horse, but I have my doubts about him getting 2yo's.

Aussie Rules another good looker, but again wouldn't be an obv sire of many early sorts. Lovely pedigree though and I hear that there are some very good deals for him.

Iffraaj. They have sold well but I don't like Zafonic as a sire of sires. A very good broodmare sire, but wary of his sons.

High Chap, looks as though he could be a useful sire over a range of distances so a good bet.

Shamardal has had a very promising start and it will be interesting to see how his 3yo's progress.

Slick'n'Smooth,I had no idea he would be so expensive,I was thinking of around 20k,so he will not be getting any of mine I cant afford that and mine dont warrant that sort of money!I see your sending one to Bushranger can I ask you what you think of Baltic King? Both by Danetime and also Kodiac all Tally-Ho sires.

The mare going to Strategic Prince bred a nice two year old from a Danehill stallion before so we thought it was worth taking a punt.
With the Aussie Rule mare i'm hoping to get a filly.It's not that i dont think Bushranger was a good horse i just have my doubts.High Chap is prob something we'll hold onto the rest will prob be sold i just think there's more to come from him yet.
Theres still the 2010 foals to look forward.Do you have any foal yet Slick

Slick the mare that is ment to be going to Medicean might not be going as she is foaling late this year and there might be a possibility of taking the year off with her.It might be just as well i couldn't see them selling that good in 2 years :)

What stallions have you on your agenda for this year Slick

PD, Baltic King was a tough horse who has a similar profile to his sire and deserves his chance at stud. I know Tony and Anne O'Callaghan well and have seen the horse, he is a smashing looking animal.They think highly of him at Tally Ho.

Kodiac has a lovely pedigree and reports of his yearlings are good. A big risk this season but with some nice sorts to run for him it might be a chance worth taking, esp if you are wanting to sell the mare in foal this dec. Some of his have gone to the right trainers and it could be an attractive covering come sales time.

As for this years stallions, I am using Oasis Dream again despite the big fee increase, though only one will go. More than likely I shall use Fastnet Rock. Others include Bushranger, Shamardal and as a cheapie, Captain Gerrard.

When I was over at Coolmore I had a look at Mastercraftsman with a view to using him, but I wasn't very taken, his racecourse achievements are good but physically he isn't the type I like. I also had a quick look at Yeats, I would not use him, but he is a nice looking horse.

I saw Captain Gerrard last week at Tatts and he is a nice looking little horse.Plenty of people were looking at him.

As for foals, Yes I have had a couple, including my 'famous' Misu Bond! I haven't seen it yet as the mare belongs to my Daughter and her Husband, I understand that it is a small filly, but is a strong type. I will go and see it once the mare is back from stud in a few months time.

Slick,thanks for that I like him very much,he was such a sound and very tough horse and then add his good looks, for the money I dont think he's a bad choice.I always rated Danetime as a sire and as time has shown he is a loss to us breeders,so you have helped me make my choice.
This sort of sire can get winners which is very important when getting the most from our mares,as however well bred they are if they get no winners they are worth nothing at all,a point that breeders like Black Sam Bellamy needs to understand.If breeders like him want to 'improve' the breed then a good start is to use a very tough and sound stallion sire's like Baltic King slot into this category.Another horse that fits that bill is Milk it Mick,very tough and sound the sort who stands a chance of getting tough sorts.

Oasis Dream thats something nice to look forward to.I haven't been to Coolmore this year but have heard what you said.I would love to send a mare to Yeats but he's not going to be commercial.

Hi Slick, Misu Bond colt last night. Not seen yet but Andrew said typical Misu Bond. The mares first 4 foals all colts we are very lucky.

Young Filly,Have you had a look at Milk it Mick yet?you are lucky in having four colts on the trot,one of mine years ago had 11 foals all colts,pity in a way as I would of kept a filly from her.Did you see the mare you liked last week made 50k?I am the first to admit I got that one wrong but you never can be sure on the day what they will make.The Warning mare lot52 made 12k the foal she is carrying is very closely related to the French 1000 winner Zenda so she looks well bought,I see Luke Lillingston got her.

I will be looking at Milk It Mick on Sunday. If i knew my other mare was going to have a filly Firebreak then I would probably send this mare to him. She is not due until end of March though.

Young Filly, why didn't you get her scanned for sex last year?

not that important really but hard to make decisions in this market

Congratulations on your Misu Bond foal. :-) I am sure my Daughter would have prefered a colt! You have been lucky to get a run of them. Our filly apparently has a lot of quality and has improved and grown, so fingers crossed she may still have a squeak at the sales.

Good luck with your Firebreak, let me know what you have.

Hi Slick went up to Hedgeholme today have picture of colt if intersted i can point you to our website. He is the strongest foal the mare has had at this early stage. Another foal stamped by Misu Bond apart from him been jet black. Seen Milk It Mick he is very similar in build to Misu Bond

Young Filly,if you dont mind me asking how much are the Hedgeholme stallions standing for?I like both Misu Bond and Milk it Mick as I said i saw some of his MB foals at tatts last Dec they look like runners,Milk it Mick was a very sound and tough horse he will never be commercial but sometimes I use that sort to get a hard knocking early runner it does sometimes work,do you plan to use any of them?

Milk It Mick has around 30 booked to him so far. I think 1 of mine will go to him. Think you will get Milk It and Misu for around 1k

The Misu Bond colt you viewed at tatts was one of mine... his mother is back in foal to him and will probably visit Milk It Mick. Hes doing well since Tatts and looks sharp

Will you go to Doncaster with him?poss'the festival sale.

Doncaster for sure just depends what sale they stick him in. As a new breeder i have no contacts, history really. From family with stacks of minor winners but not selling at tatts not going to help

You are right to go to Donny listen I cant remember which one was yours one very nice colt went to spitting Mick i think in the next box a nice colt then poss a filly then a grey by Tillerman that was a bit AN Do you have M dale to look over yours? if so tell him you want it in the Festival sale he dosen't have much say anymore (i think Doncaster want him out but cant afford it) Press home how well it walks and that it looks a runner remind them that Donny sell 2 y'olds and then fingers crossed.Good luck

Old guy comes from Donny cant remember name....will see what happens over next few months his half sister may do ok

Young Filly,I remember your website is Bambi Bloodstock,but I cant get your latest 'photos to come up,your foal will go grey out of that mare it wont be black.

Its working now. Cant get pictures to enlarge though will look into it.
Her 2 year old with Dandy Nicolls is black, but last years foal was black and ended up grey

Young Filly your right they are small photo's but from what I can see it looks early looks short coupled and strong!

http://bambibloodstock.com/admin/articles/blackcolt1266226796.jpg

YBFW, Thank you for the link to the picture (with help from Ben 10 to enlarge it ).

My daughter has looked at the picture as well and says that our filly is very similar to your colt. Would you say that is a typical Misu Bond foal? Perhaps I won't be quite as disapointed in ours if they all start life like that and develop into the nice types I saw at Tatts. I don't wish to be rude, but is your mare the type that is hard to keep weight on? She looks quite poor in the picture.

I wondered if perhaps you had given any thought to sending that mare to Captain Gerard? There is a relation close up by Oasis Dream, Quick Wit, with Godolphin and it is not without ability. He might be an interesting choice for her. Certainly a step up from Milk It Mick. Captain Gerard was popular, with plenty of people viewing him, at the Feb sale. Breeding to sell you have to keep in mind what is popular and what is not.

Hi Slick... The mare is diffiicult to keep the weight until early mid spring then she seems to come good, she thrieves been out. I have thought about Captain Gerrard but this season he was terrible and when I saw him at Haydock I thought he was really small compared to the field. I have dismissed him, dispite Oasis Dream.
If we have any success this year she will go to B Bounty as cross with inchinor mares work well and Quick Wits half brother Gallagher. I still have not decided where she is going yet this year finding decision hard!

YBFW, I take on board your point about CG's form this season, but he will marketed on his 2yo achievements so this years form will become irrelevant. Although he may seem small he is very typical of his sire (I have seen both of them in the flesh) and Oasis Dream is so red hot I could not dismiss him as easily as you seem to have.

I understand about B.Bounty, but for this season perhaps consider using another son of Cadeaux Gen in Major Cadeaux. Bearstone may do you a deal if you send one to FB again. Also Major C is avaliable with a filly foal free return that might interest you. Have you enquired about price for B.Bounty? I think he is a little expensive at 10k advertised but I have not heard of any actual prices.

Another to consider would be Myboycharlie. A friend of mine has got him for 4k and he is a nice looking horse too.

Ive not enquired about B Bounty, im still learning the industry etc and spending 10k is still alot of money for young couple. Im pleased with our progress in few years we have been going and plan is still to go slowly whilst we learn and Hedgeholme local to us and been very good with us.

Young Filly,Do what you think is the best,but I do agree BB is a bit expensive he did not have a really good horse last year,we hear all the time about 'the best ones are coming'but we only get little winners so if you are selling by that time he may be going down hill,if your mare is at the stage of having a few runners and could go up or down I would use a new sire that will hopefully have plenty of appeal in the sale ring,both of S'n'S choices would offer this,Dont fall into the trap of useing the local stallions just because they are local,when you try to sell I can assure you it wont be the local people who buy your stock.But if you intend to race yours thats another ball game!

Slick'n'Smooth',I see you were right about Fastnet Rock's fee at 35k I dont know for me he does seem a bit on the high side but I suppose you think he looks good value,he has done well down under but 35k for a AUS horse................I wonder annoucing it all so late will cost him mares as I'm sure people with that class of mare will want them booked before the season starts.

Sold two of my flat mares to a new breeder.Keeping the NH mare..And have one flat mare kept.My father sold two to the same person.You cant beat selling a few and starting again.Do you have any for sale Slick

slick n' smooth, your friend is right about myboycharlie .saw him at the curragh last year a truly magnificent looking horse , my worry about him is he only won on heavy ground .

I would agree Rip, that a refresh of your stock from time to time can be a good thing. Saying that though, no I don't have any for sale myself. I tend to breed my own families now with occasional culls if numbers are getting too high or the mare is not delivering what I hope for. Next year I expect that some will have to be culled due to keeping more to go in training this season. With the poor state of the market last year some of mine did not go to sales or did not sell for what I considered their true value, so I will race them myself and help the mares that way. Do you race any of yours Rip?

Myboycharlie is a nice looking horse Workrider. I have seen him. His soft ground form is one reason I am using Bushranger and not MBC. Bushranger was a better horse IMO and the Newmarket win was the icing on the cake.

Incidentally another son of Danetime that is a super individual is Baltic King. I have never used him but when I have been at Tally Ho he has always taken my eye. Danetime has been a loss to the industry and I am sure his sons will be popular.

No i dont race them myself my father has a few in training for the flat and he has one national hunt a horse a year to go into training.The reason i sold wasn't because the mares werent breeding but that the money was to good to turn down in this economic climate.And since it's my father that looks after them i didnt want him to be looking after them for another year.He has also cut down some of his stock in the last month he has two,and the differences in money going out on feed and vets bills can be seen.

I'm left with two mares now and will prob buy a mare before the end of the year.

How many do you have yourself Slick.Do you keep many in training.

I try to keep the mares to around 25, sometimes it is nearer 30. Normally, between my Husband and myself we would have 5-6 fillies going into training each year, but this year we will have a total of 12 2yo's to run for us. Unusually for us this year though is that we colts as well. I have kept them as they are from young mares starting off and I want to give them the best chance of a winner. I have a few 3yo's and my Husband has an older horse out of his pet mare.

The horses are split between Newmarket and Ireland. The majority in Newmarket.

25 to 30 is quite a lot.I presume you will cover most of them this year.Any going to Sea The Stars :) All of ours are based in Ireland but we have had a few with Henry Cecil but that was a few years back.Have you bred any horses in contention for Classics this year.
What are your opinions on Oratorio and the Duke Of Marmalade.
As we have a mare going to Oratorio this year and have been offered a mare in foal to The Duke at a reasonable price.

25-30 is plenty enough! Yes they are almost all being covered. One I was intending to rest but I am going to send her to Fastnet Rock as I don't want to miss an opportunity to use him. None going to STS I'm afraid.

As for Oratorio and the Duke. Oratorio I like. I have used him several times and infact one of my 3yo's in training is an Oratorio filly. She was in training last year but didn't run after a little setback. Two of the 2yo's this season are by him as well.

Duke of Marmalade is not one I am keen on and I have not used him. IMO he is not a very nice looking horse. BUT if I liked a mare then a covering to him would not put me off her, though I wouldn't buy her because of it. I am sure his early crops will be commercial.

As far as the Classics this year, it is early in the season yet but we are always hopeful. We do have a couple of nice ones ;-)

SnS, your boy HOF, is proving popular today . 40s into 20s.

Push, see my Firebreak thread..........

Regards Tony posting, I have never asked him. I don't think I have ever discussed Betfair with him.

Thank You for your compliment Rip. :-)

Re Fastnet Rock - today's EBN lists some of the mares booked into him and as you can see Coolmore are giving him every chance of success

Alexandrova (won Gr.1 Oaks, Irish Oaks and Yorkshire Oaks)
All Too Beautiful (Gr.3-winning sister to Galileo and half-sister to Sea The Stars)
Chenchikova (full-sister to High Chaparral)
Clodora (Gr.2-winning dam of Poulains winner Clodovil)
Damson (Gr.1 Phoenix Stakes winner)
Delphinium (dam of Gr.3 winner Hebridean)
Gagnoa (dual Group winner and twice Classic-placed)
Imperial Beauty (won Gr.1 Prix de lAbbaye)
Maryinsky (dam of Gr.1 winners Peeping Fawn and Thewayyouare)
Moneefa (dam of Gr.2 winner Dandoun)
Monevassia (full-sister to Kingmambo and to the dam of Gr.1 winner Rumplestiltskin)
Moonstone (Gr.1 Irish Oaks winner)
Myth (dam of four times Gr.1 winner Johannesburg)
Pharapache (dam of Gr.2 winner Westphalia)
Race the Wild Wind (Gr.1 winner and dam of Gr.1 winner King Charlemagne)
Royal Ballerina (Gr.2 winner and runner-up in Oaks and Irish Oaks)
Strawberry Roan (Stakes-winning full-sister to Oaks winner Imagine and half-sister to Generous)
No Quest (dam of Gr.3 winner Macaw)
Resurgence (dam of dual Gr.1 winner Araafa)

An impressive book. They are leaving little to chance

Slick, who did you send your bargain from last year to?

H00d, my bargin has gone to Bushranger. She has been living in England with my daughter but is here in Ireland atm.

As I am sure you know she didn't win at 2yo so Bushranger will add precocity. My Son-in-Law was very keen on Champs Elysees for her, and he is a super looking horse with an outstanding pedigree. But 2yo's are what the market wants so precocity was needed, I made the choice and vetoed him :-) Bushranger won the Middle Park in a faster time than Oasis Dream, hopefully her foal is bred to win it too!

What do you think of that covering?

Any updates on her for me H00d? ie Where is the Dansili going?

Your choice makes perfect sense and if Bushranger can upgrade his mares like his sire did then it could be a very good decision.

No update on the Dansili - I wil let you know if I hear anything, I trust you know the dam went???

Thanks H00d. Yes I know the dam went, and I know where she has gone as well.

If I had known about Fastnet Rock earlier I may have considered him for her, it would be the top of her fee range, but he would suit her physically and is both proven and new at the same time. However I am happy with Bushranger.

Slick have you ever used Whipper or Nayef i've been asked about the two of them alot recently i believe theres deals on Whipper

Rip, I have used Whipper a couple of times. I am not surprised there are deals available, I am afraid I would have to say he has been disappointing so far. If we are to judge a horse as we do nowadays on his first crop only then he looks an underachiever. However with his pedigree it will not be unexpected to his stock progress from 2-3yo. I am sure many people, and I fell into this myself a little, assumed that he would get 2yo's in the mould of himself and his sister Divine Proportions. A closer look at his pedigree shows that that would not necessarily be the case however, as a son of Kingmambo's full brother (KingM can be an influence for stamina IMO) and out of a Sadlers Wells mare from the immediate family of Shirley Heights, horses that need a trip and/or time are not to be totally unexpected. In many ways he is similar to Oasis Dream in that respect though OD is by a speedier sire. A top level 2yo that only stayed a maximum of a mile at 3, leading breeders to think he would add speed and precocity. Both horses have staying influences close up in their pedigrees though so fast mares are the order of the day for Whipper now I think. You would def need a physically strong mare as well, Whipper is not the most strongly made individual and some of his tend to be a little light of bone.

As for Nayef, No I have never used him. He doesn't fit into my commercial breeders profile which needs sharp 2yo types. He has gone a little quiet after a promising start and could need a good horse this season for breeders to still have him high on their list. IMO there is only one Arab-owned stallion stud that has a good record for producing sires, and Nayef isn't at it!

Thats interesting about Whipper i'm sure many people thought he would get 2 year olds.
I was delighted for Singspiel when Dar Re Mi when she won last week have you any thoughts on him or is he a cold sire in your book

Rip, I have said plenty about the merits or otherwise of Singspiel! I think it would be safe to say that I am not a fan ;-) I had a rather long conversation on here with someone last year about Singspiel and how he was massively overrated and that I could not fathom how some breeders were still taken in by him. His current fee of 15k is still too high IMO. Dar Re Mi is with no doubt a top class filly, but so was her mother, and her mothers brother ( Darshaan) and she is from a good Aga Khan family. Is the sire really responsible for her ability.........? Remember my point on another thread about AK families improving with age? Singspiel is only going to add to that trait, and that is a big factor in why he is never going to be a commercial success.

His achievements to date are not really enough for a sire that has covered at his fee and covered the mares he has. I have been staggered on many occasions to see the book of mares he has been sent, why on earth people with top quality mares have used him is beyond me. I do confess to listening too much to the hype and not enough to my own judgement several years ago and I did send him a mare. My worries about him were confirmed when the mare produced a tiny, lightweight, feminine colt. That he also turned out to be mediocre on he track was the icing on the cake!

About 6-7 years ago the Japanese tried to buy Singspiel ( hence the large fee to justify keeping him) Darley really should have got out whilst the going was good.

Your thoughts on him Rip?

Pretty much the same as you as i heard an awful lot of people talking him up but it was nice to see him get a good one as it looks like he really needed it.
On another topic Slick i've been hearing alot about the Echo Of Light yearling at Kildangan have you seen him a lad at Gilltown was telling me about him and he didn't think he was as good as people were making out

No Rip I haven't seen that yearling. I am not really very involved with Darley TBH apart from using Ravens Pass last season. I did see some by Echo of Light at the sales and they seemed nice enough sorts though and the Stallion himself is a nice individual.

Your a Coolmore and Tally Ho women.
Ah we use a few of Darleys as they offer good value sometimes on a good mare we just had filly by shamardal tonight and because the mare is fairly usefull we got a good deal

Any of you Bloodstock Genius have any idea why Ballydoyle have near 40 Galileo's as 2 yr olds this year yet Danehill Dancer and Montjeu have max 15 each even if that

Galileo had no major 2 year old last year opposed to others years with Teofilo and New Approach its obvious they want to get a really good two year old by him and retire him to Coolmore as his two previous champion 2 year olds are standing with Darley

JM/JM/A'OB10,Rip Van Winkle is dead right above,the other stallions dont need help this year but G does.

Makes perfect sense when i have u people to confirm it. Cape Blanco/RVW are the best Galileo's Ballydoyle hav had i think. I suppose you need alot more than that to carry on the genes on the law of averages. Most will never make it as a top Class Stallion....more you have the better chance you got i guess.

Also 1 Oratorio and 1 Footsteps?....Holy Roman Emperor seems to be geting plenty of support from Ballydoyle early on. He does have a exceptional pedigree mind you

JM/JM/AOB10,If you read the thread about Aiden O'Briens 2 y'olds you will see the points about his horses and why they have so many by Galileo,and not so many of the others,have a look.

Slick do you remember last year i was on about a colt by Danehill Dancer out of Kitty O'shea running and saying he was from a lovely family his full sister won today. The family took a boost from last year as Workforce added to it

I'm in the process at the moment of purchasing 2 mares and 2 more before the end of the year in a joint venture between the family which is rather exciting. The mares that we're buying are more commercial than what we had got rid of before so maybe it's onwards and upwards, thats what i tell my dad anyways he said he's heard that alot over his years in the industry.

Good luck with your new mares Rip van. I am sure there must be some value out there at the moment. How have you gone about valueing your new purchases? I've never really bought privately before so would be interested to hear the mechanics - how you found them, why they are on the market etc etc.

Rip, My apologies for not replying to you sooner. I don't look at Betfair very often now. I leave it more to my Husband who seems to raise my points anyway

Yes I do remember you saying about Kitty o'Shea's colt and I did notice the filly had won [;)]

Good luck with the purchase of your new mares, can you say what they are by? Of course it is onwards and upwards, this industry is based almost entirely on hope over experience! Getting rid of the uncommercial and buying the commercial ones is always the right direction to move in.

Well cant really say what there by at the minute but we needed to upgrade our mares and now seemed like a good time. No deals have been completed yet but were half way there.

We have purchased two mares so far with another two or three before the end of the year. I will inform you only on what the mares are covered to shortly. I am actually very very excited about these two mares and they were bought pretty reasonably. We have sold four mares, three of which were flat mares and one national hunt. We have sold mares that were in foal to Strategic Prince, Iffraaj(mare was pretty easy to sell) and Moss Vale(mare sold for more than i had anticapated)

We were messing around using uncommercial stallions for a while and some times it didnt pay off. Some people might not believe me but this forum has been a major help to us when thinking about using stallions

Rip Van, Interesting to hear you place an acknowledgement of the uses of our assorted ramblings on here - I hope  you will still be grateful for the various conversations when it comes to the sharp end, you may have to change your tune then

But ofcourse you are right. For me particularly. I only have one set of friends locally in the game and they are winding down, so any chewing of the fat on here has to be a good thing doesn't it. I am mindful though of trying to keep my own historical judgement intact as I suspect it's not a good idea to try and re-invent the wheel so to speak. I'm perhaps a little gullible so am always trying to grab a few nuggets whilst not throwing the baby out with the bath water!

And another thing, I am quite excited about your new mares! I would dearly love a new mare at the moment as although I have young mares at the moment with their careers ahead of them, I feel I am one short really for when they have a run of bad luck which is where I am right now. I just don't have a sufficiently wide base to try and even out the peaks and troughs. I probably don't have anything in the pipeline to change the situation any time soon, so I'll just have to stop moaning and kick on!

Anyway, congrats on your new girls - and remember, it might not be the most obvious commercial mating that brings home the bacon. Don't entirely give up the 'messing around' [;)]

Congratulations on your new mares Rip Van. It is always exciting to move in a new directions and look at your mating plans with fresh eyes.

I always like to read peoples thoughts on different sires, (though I tend to get them second hand atm via Prima Donna) and in an Industry founded mainly on rumour and supposition, where somebody's 'thought' or 'feeling' about a horse can make or break it's career, gathering ideas and impressions from as wide a range of breeders as possible is always a good thing.