Jan 31, 2015 -- 8:28PM, wombleoz wrote:
well done HenryI hope Secong and Thebas are ok??? They've gone VERY quiet
Perhaps you all bored them to death with endless slogans and copy and pasting
Feb 1, 2015 -- 12:20AM, wombleoz wrote:
I think she's earned a decent crack at the job, see how she goes though - they should never be sacred to replace a leader if the can't handle the job - don't want to end up laughing stock like Abbott the electorate is highly volatile and crying out for true leadership - not sure if they've found it last night but they will eventually
Why should they be able to replace a leader? Wasn't she voted in by the people in a democracy?
Feb 1, 2015 -- 3:20AM, henryluca wrote:
BJTAs a result of the 20 March 2003 invasion of Iraq, there have been at least 105,439 – 115,149 civilians killed, and the Wikileaks war logs suggest a further 13,750, according to Iraq Body CountYour great conclusion is from a source known as THE AIM NETWORK:http://theaimn.com/complaint-john-howard-international-criminal-cour... describe themselves as "The AIMN is a platform for citizen journalists and bloggers to write and engage in an independent media environment."And refers to a complaint :On 16 March 2012 the Search Foundation sent complaint to Commissioner Tony Negus APM, the head of the Australian Federal Police. The complaint is substantially the same as the one which would be sent to the Court. As far as the domestic jurisdiction is concerned, the complaint was based on Mr Howard’s violation of Division 268 of the Australian Criminal Code Act 1995. That Division ‘received’ the substance of Article 6: Genocide; Article 7: Crimes against humanity, and Article 8: War crimes, as contained in the Statute of Rome.The complaint was politely dealt with .. . . The CDPP has considered the material you have provided and will not initiate a prosecution of Mr Howard based on this material. The material is not a brief of evidence, containing admissible evidence against Mr Howard. I also note that the allegations set out in your letter do not appear to fall within the terms of any offence contained in Division 268 of the Criminal Code.And yes the providers of this platform for citizen journalists ans bloggers seek donations:http://theaimn.com/donate/Best to leave it at that
You seriously think any department in Australia would investigate a prime minister of ours?
As for the numbers.
Source Estimated violent deaths Time period
Iraq Family Health Survey 151,000 violent deaths March 2003 to June 2006
Lancet survey 601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths March 2003 to June 2006
Opinion Research Business survey 1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict March 2003 to August 2007
PLOS Medicine Survey Approximately 500,000 deaths in Iraq as direct or indirect result of the war. March 2003 to June, 2011
Source Documented deaths from violence Time period
Associated Press 110,600 violent deaths March 2003 to April 2009
Iraq Body Count project 112,667–123,284 civilian deaths from violence. 174,000 civilian and combatant deaths March 2003 to March 2013
Classified Iraq War Logs 109,032 deaths including 66,081 civilian deaths. January 2004 to December 2009
Overview. Iraqi death estimates by source
Summary of casualties of the Iraq War. Possible estimates on the number of people killed in the invasion and occupation of Iraq vary widely, and are highly disputed. Estimates of casualties below include both the 2003 invasion of Iraq and the following Post-invasion Iraq, 2003–present.
Iraq war logs
Classified US military documents released by WikiLeaks in October 2010, record Iraqi and Coalition military deaths between January 2004 and December 2009. The documents record 109,032 deaths broken down into "Civilian" (66,081 deaths), "Host Nation" (15,196 deaths),"Enemy" (23,984 deaths), and "Friendly" (3,771 deaths).
Iraqi Health Ministry
The Health Ministry of the Iraqi government recorded 87,215 Iraqi violent deaths between January 1, 2005, and February 28, 2009. The data was in the form of a list of yearly totals for death certificates issued for violent deaths by hospitals and morgues. The official who provided the data told the Associated Press said the ministry does not have figures for the first two years of the war, and estimated the actual number of deaths at 10 to 20 percent higher because of thousands who are still missing and civilians who were buried in the chaos of war without official records.
The Associated Press
Associated Press stated that more than 110,600 Iraqis had been killed since the start of the war to April 2009. This number is per the Health Ministry tally of 87,215 covering January 1, 2005, to February 28, 2009 combined with counts of casualties for 2003–2004, and after February 29, 2009, from hospital sources and media reports. For more info see farther down at The Associated Press and Health Ministry. More information.
Iraq Body Count
The Iraq Body Count project (IBC) figure of 110,937 – 121,227 civilian deaths from violence up to December 2012 includes reported civilian deaths due to Coalition and insurgent military action, sectarian violence and increased criminal violence. The IBC site states: "it should be noted that many deaths will probably go unreported or unrecorded by officials and media." The IBC website currently states that, "Further analysis of the WikiLeaks' Iraq War Logs may add 12,000 civilian deaths."
Iraq Family Health Survey (with WHO)
Iraq Family Health Survey for the World Health Organization. On January 9, 2008, the World Health Organization reported the results of the "Iraq Family Health Survey" published in The New England Journal of Medicine. The study surveyed 9,345 households across Iraq and estimated 151,000 deaths due to violence (95% uncertainty range, 104,000 to 223,000) from March 2003 through June 2006. Employees of the Iraqi Health Ministry carried out the survey. See also farther down: Iraq Family Health Survey.
Opinion Research Business (ORB) poll
Opinion Research Business (ORB) poll conducted August 12–19, 2007, estimated 1,033,000 violent deaths due to the Iraq War. The range given was 946,000 to 1,120,000 deaths. A nationally representative sample of approximately 2,000 Iraqi adults answered whether any members of their household (living under their roof) were killed due to the Iraq War. 22% of the respondents had lost one or more household members. ORB reported that "48% died from a gunshot wound, 20% from the impact of a car bomb, 9% from aerial bombardment, 6% as a result of an accident and 6% from another blast/ordnance."
The United Nations reported that 34,452 violent deaths occurred in 2006, based on data from morgues, hospitals, and municipal authorities across Iraq.
The Lancet study's figure of 654,965 excess deaths through the end of June 2006 is based on household survey data. The estimate is for all excess violent and nonviolent deaths. That also includes those due to increased lawlessness, degraded infrastructure, poorer healthcare, etc. 601,027 deaths (range of 426,369 to 793,663 using a 95% confidence interval) were estimated to be due to violence. 31% of those were attributed to the Coalition, 24% to others, 46% unknown. The causes of violent deaths were gunshot (56%), car bomb (13%), other explosion/ordnance (14%), airstrike (13%), accident (2%), unknown (2%). A copy of a death certificate was available for a high proportion of the reported deaths (92% of those households asked to produce one).
PLOS Medicine Study
The PLOS Medicine study's figure of approximately 460,000 excess deaths through the end of June 2011 is based on household survey data including at least 132,000 deaths that were caused directly by war-related violence. The estimate is for all excess violent and nonviolent deaths. That also includes those due to increased lawlessness, degraded infrastructure, poorer healthcare, etc. 405,000 deaths (range of 48,000 to 751,000 using a 95% confidence interval) were estimated as excess deaths attributable to the conflict. They estimated at least 55,000 additional deaths occurred that the survey missed, as the families had migrated out of Iraq. The survey found that more than 60% of excess deaths were caused by violence, with the rest caused indirectly by the war, through degradation of infrastructure and similar causes. The survey notes that although car bombs received more significant press internationally, gunshot wounds were responsible for the majority (63%) of violent deaths. The study also estimated that 35% of violent deaths were attributed to the Coalition, and 32% to militias. Cardiovascular conditions accounted for about half (47%) of nonviolent deaths, chronic illnesses 11%, infant or childhood deaths other than injuries 12.4%, non-war injuries 11%, and cancer 8%.
Ali al-Shemari (earlier Iraqi Health Minister)
Concerning war-related deaths (civilian and non-civilian), and deaths from criminal gangs, Iraq's Health Minister Ali al-Shemari said that since the March 2003 invasion between 100,000 and 150,000 Iraqis had been killed. "Al-Shemari said on Thursday [November 9, 2006] that he based his figure on an estimate of 100 bodies per day brought to morgues and hospitals – though such a calculation would come out closer to 130,000 in total." For more info see farther down at Iraq Health Minister estimate in November 2006.
Costs of War Project
176,000–189,000 people were killed in violence in the Iraq war, including 134,000 civilians (using Iraq Body Count's figures), according to the findings of the Costs of War Project, a team of 30 economists, anthropologists, political scientists, legal experts, and physicians assembled by Brown University and the Watson Institute to study the effects of wars involving the United States since 2001. The project also examined the economic costs of the Iraq war, as well as the human and economic cost of war in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Overview. Death estimates by group
Iraqi Security Forces (aligned with Coalition)
From June 2003, through December 31, 2010, there have been 16,623 Iraqi military and police killed based on several estimates. The Iraq Index of the Brookings Institution keeps a running total of ISF casualties. There is also a breakdown of ISF casualties at the iCasualties.org website.
From June 2003, through September 30, 2011, there have been 26,320-27,000+ Iraqi insurgents killed based on several estimates.
Media and aid workers
136 journalists and 51 media support workers were killed on duty according to the numbers listed on source pages on February 24, 2009. (See Category:Journalists killed while covering the Iraq War.) 94 aid workers have been killed according to a November 21, 2007, Reuters article.
U.S. armed forces
Graph of monthly deaths of U.S. military personnel in Iraq from beginning of war to June 24, 2008.
As of May 29, 2012, according to the U.S. Department of Defense casualty website, there were 4,425 total deaths (including both killed in action and non-hostile) and 32,223 wounded in action (WIA) as a result of Operation Iraqi Freedom. As a part of Operation New Dawn, which was initiated on September 1, 2010, there were 66 total deaths (including KIA and non-hostile) and 301 WIA. See the references for a breakdown of the wounded, injured, ill, those returned to duty (RTD), those requiring medical air transport, non-hostile-related medical air transports, non-hostile injuries, diseases, or other medical reasons.
Coalition deaths by hostile fire
As of 23 October 2011, hostile-fire deaths accounted for 3,777 of the 4,799 total coalition military deaths.
Armed forces of other coalition countries
See Multinational force in Iraq.
As of 24 February 2009, there were 318 deaths from the armed forces of other Coalition nations. 179 UK deaths and 139 deaths from other nations. Breakdown:
Australia — 2
Azerbaijan — 1
Bulgaria — 13
Czech Republic — 1
Denmark — 7
El Salvador — 5
Estonia — 2
Fiji — 1
Georgia — 5
Hungary — 1
Italy — 33
Kazakhstan — 1
Latvia — 3
Netherlands — 2
Poland — 30
Portugal — 1
Romania — 4
Slovakia — 4
South Korea — 1
Spain — 11
Thailand — 2
Ukraine — 18
United Kingdom — 179
Contractors. At least 1,487 deaths between March 2003 and June 2011 according to the list of private contractor deaths in Iraq. 245 of those are from the U.S. Contractors are "Americans, Iraqis and workers from more than three dozen other countries." 10,569 wounded or injured. Contractors "cook meals, do laundry, repair infrastructure, translate documents, analyze intelligence, guard prisoners, protect military convoys, deliver water in the heavily fortified Green Zone and stand sentry at buildings – often highly dangerous duties almost identical to those performed by many U.S. troops." A July 4, 2007, Los Angeles Times article reported 182,000 employees of U.S.-government-funded contractors and subcontractors (118,000 Iraqi, 43,000 other, 21,000 U.S.).
Overview. Iraqi injury estimates by source
Iraqi Human Rights Ministry
The Human Rights Ministry of the Iraqi government recorded 250,000 Iraqi injuries between 2003 and 2012. The ministry had earlier reported that 147,195 injures were recorded for the period 2004–2008.
Iraqi Government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh reported that 239,133 Iraqi injuries were recorded by the government between 2004 and 2011.
Iraq war logs
Classified US military documents released by WikiLeaks in October 2010, recorded 176,382 injuries, including 99,163 civilian injuries between January 2004 and December 2009.
Iraq Body Count
The Iraq Body Count project reported that there were at least 20,000 civilian injuries in the earliest months of the war between March and July 2003. A follow up report noted that at least 42,500 civilians were reported wounded in the first two years of the war between March 2003 and March 2005.
UN Assistance Mission for Iraq
The United Nations Assistance Mission for Iraq (UNAMI) reported that there were 36,685 Iraqi injuries during the year 2006.
Iraqi Health Ministry
The Health Ministry of the Iraqi government reported that 38,609 Iraqi injuries had occurred during the year 2007, based on statistics derived from official Iraqi health departments' records. Baghdad had the highest number of injuries (18,335), followed by Nineveh (6,217), Basra (1,387) and Kirkuk (655).
Does that help?
Why worry about what the website is, and who the people are that are seeking justice? Why not worry about the facts.
The facts are, Iraq were monitoring their weather, and our elected prime minister, was involved in the murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis because of it.
Quite simple really isn't it?
They got the trucks, almost 20 years earlier, from the UK, but all of a sudden we were learning that they had these trucks which were mobile biological weapon factories? We knew exactly what they were, and what was happening with them yet create a story to gain public opinion to go to war, and slaughter hundreds of thousands of people, so we could take control of their oil fields, because they were using the wealth to make weather balloons?
How can you possibly have anything to say to the contrary? Are they not the facts?
Oh you voted for him and are trying to justify the guilt?
Feb 2, 2015 -- 12:20AM, henryluca wrote:
BJT Does that help?With what?? ...accepting your statement :BJT Joined: 30 Oct 04 | Topic/replies: 20,258 | Blogger: BJT's blogWell, John Howard's mark should see him get a life sentence multiplied by about 10,000 for the atrocities he committed. Wouldn't be forgotten for a long time.....I would be worried about myself if I thought like that...I dont think in that way..But all wars are horrible horrible events. No doubt many opinions will vary on --pain v gain.Your comment "John Howard's mark should see him get a life sentence multiplied by about 10,000 for the atrocities he committed" is a statement of passion and your passion is respected.
The reason we went to war was because they held WMDs and were creating them in these mobile factories. We knew this with 100% certainty. Well, the public did.
Now we know they were making weather balloons, which was known by those in charge, the whole time, where exactly does the opinion vary? It was an illegal invasion, that cost the life of over 100,000 people.
If you don't see a problem with it, then you see no problem with Saddam in the first place which kind of contradicts any opinion of yours.
Feb 1, 2015 -- 3:30PM, wombleoz wrote:
Good to see you're still kicking Secong - it wasn't a protest vote, it was a rejection on a leader and an ideology. From the outside the biggest issue was clearly privatisation of public assets along with the traditional state issues of health, education and jobs.Labor will learn from their last defeat - well they had better do or they'll be out on their ear in 3 years time.BJ - we elect parties, not leaders - the parties elect the leaders Federal will be on the other thread
Excuse my ignorance, since I don't believe in voting, but in the box that needed to be ticked, was there a name next to it? Was the name Campbell Newman on the ballot? Of the independants voted for, does that mean we get to pick now whichever independent we like and can change them whenever we choose? How do we go about this?
From what I understand, you vote for the person, and the party they represent is below them. If people were voting Anastasia because they were voting against Campbell, then why didn't they just vote for his party without him as leader? Or couldn't they?