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wombleoz
05 Jan 15 20:27
Joined:
Date Joined: 15 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 12,882 | Blogger: wombleoz's blog
Snap poll on Jan 31??? or early Feb, either way a desperate move imo

LNP lead is massive so they should win BUT Newman looks almost certain to lose his seat - who will become Premier???

should be a fascinating contest Happy
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Report Monday mike January 12, 2015 12:22 PM GMT
Bikies being a election issue....whats going on in the country of Queensland.?  Newman is no certainty to win his own seat.   They'll probably win, then party then give him the arrse the next day.
Report wombleoz January 12, 2015 9:25 PM GMT
Bikies aren't always what they seem - this guy was a Lib!!!

http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/a-former-bikie-runs-for-mboro/2508539/
Report bigted. January 15, 2015 3:21 AM GMT
everything a mug needs to know about the upcoming election... Plain

http://hijacked.com.au/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-queensland-stat...
Report secong coming. January 15, 2015 3:27 AM GMT
qld needs another term of newman
labor truly fcked the economy and at least things looking more rosy now
hijacked.com.au surely a great sauce (sic) of information to sleepy westozzies
Report bigted. January 15, 2015 3:44 AM GMT
they are almost incompetent as the abbott govt..what an absolute circus..amazing disgraceful scenes..adults in charge indeed..wowee
Report secong coming. January 15, 2015 4:03 AM GMT
lol you know this how...by reading some online print in westoz
CrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazy

things are back on track over here.....trod on a few toes here and there...none that didn't deserve it...
put labor back in after the debacle?? I don't think so.....there is a reason the good guys won 78 seats to cough cough 7 lol
Report wombleoz January 15, 2015 8:53 PM GMT
can you afford another term of Newman though Secong? - he is about to sell, sorry lease, everything that isn't tied down

i still think the LNP will win but hope Newman loses - and he is well behind in the polls in Ashgrove

as much as I never thought I'd say these words but i'm looking forward to hearing what Alan Jones has to say when he broadcasts in Queensland for the next 2 weeks LaughLaughLaugh
Report wombleoz January 18, 2015 2:12 AM GMT
we'll know the result, possibly, by this time in 2 weeks - who will be the Premier???

the margin seat polling is interesting and shows massive swings to Labor and the possibility of a hung parliament, would be an interesting result

personally i'm still leaning towards an LNP win by less than 10 seats and Newman to lose Ashgrove
Report bigted. January 19, 2015 11:34 AM GMT
did Newman forget to swallow..Alan Jones is seething..gave him a ruthless spray Laugh

libs eating libs..fun innit Excited





The Sydney-based "shock jock" grew up on the Darling Downs, and has been a long-time campaigner against the expansion of coal mining and introduction of coal seam gas mining in the rich cropping region.

He told listeners on Monday Mr Newman visited his home before the 2012 election, where he challenged him to stop any further development of the New Acland coal mine near Oakey




LNP are 'prostitutes': Jones

Alan Jones launches a scathing attack against Campbell Newman on 4BC, saying he "lied to me" and couldn't "run a chook raffle".

   

Broadcaster Alan Jones has accused Campbell Newman of lying and the LNP of prostitution in a fiery debut on Brisbane radio.

And he's told Brisbane Times the Premier will not be welcome on his program, as he broadcasts every weekday until the January 31 election.
Veteran broadcaster Alan Jones.

Veteran broadcaster Alan Jones. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Jones is hosting a one-hour show on talkback station 4BC between 8-9am.
Advertisement

The Sydney-based "shock jock" grew up on the Darling Downs, and has been a long-time campaigner against the expansion of coal mining and introduction of coal seam gas mining in the rich cropping region.

He told listeners on Monday Mr Newman visited his home before the 2012 election, where he challenged him to stop any further development of the New Acland coal mine near Oakey.
Premier Campbell Newman and his wife Lisa arrive at the LNP Campaign Launch, Brisbane Convention Centre.

Premier Campbell Newman and his wife Lisa arrive at the LNP Campaign Launch, Brisbane Convention Centre.

But the project was approved on December 19, 2014.

"Campbell Newman told me in my house that if he were to become premier, there would be no Acland stage three," Jones said on air.

"Campbell Newman lied to me. I have no reason to believe anything he's promising Queenslanders today."

Jones said New Hope Coal had donated $650,000 to the LNP, and hosted senior ministers at private functions including corporate boxes at Suncorp Stadium.

The mine expansion was approved on December 19 by Deputy Premier Jeff Seeney.

"It's called prostitution ... what was the price that New Hope had to pay to get Acland stage three approved?"  Jones said.

Jones' diatribe against Mr Newman and the LNP didn't end there, as he criticised the government's performance on jobs, debt management and its relations with the health and legal professions.

He also described Mr Newman as a bully.

"Campbell Newman is only interested in one job and that's his own. He couldn't give a continental about anyone else's."

Jones also maintained Mr Newman would lose the seat of Ashgrove come polling day, and the LNP should reveal who would lead the party in such an eventuality.

"I couldn't back Campbell Newman to win a chook raffle," he said.

Speaking to Brisbane Times after his first show, Jones said his distaste for mining projects such as Acland and Adani's Galilee Basin proposal stemmed from his childhood.

"I have an obligation to my Mum and Dad who eked a living out of that agricultural land on the Darling Downs to give us all a chance," he said.

He said it was easy for people to tag him as a "right-wing" commentator.

"These people think 'oh well he's voted Liberal all his life, when the election comes he'll toe the line, he'll fall into line' – I don't fall into line with anyone."

Jones denied he had become a champion for the environment due to his stance.

"Not really, I believe in mining, Gina Rinehart and Andrew Forrest are the true heroes of Australia in my opinion, but they're mining on uncontested land," he said.

"They're not where someone is farming – the Darling Downs is some of the richest agricultural land in the world."

When asked what he thought about Jones weighing in, Campbell Newman said his focus was on jobs.

"Alan Jones is a bloke from Sydney who has made all sorts of comments in the past and there's nothing new about anything he's said," he said.

"Over a thousand people when I last checked, directly or indirectly rely on that Acland mine and we are going to make sure that it happens in an environmentally appropriate way and that's the approval that's been given."

Jones said he would have more to reveal about the LNP government over the next two weeks, but refused to give any details.

However, he did say Mr Newman and senior ministers would be banned from his program, as they had refused multiple invitations in the past.

"They've had two and a half years to explain themselves, and they haven't, they've ignored everyone, they've walked over everyone," he said.
Report secong coming. January 19, 2015 9:09 PM GMT
yes lets go back to the rabble we had before - well 7 of them anyways lol , wonder why they got so low in numbers
sure a balance of number is coming but please the state was going backwards and broke at a record rate......good old joh never once had a deficit.....and didn't have the gaming dollar to rely on either...just good management and never mind what the chooks wanted...the state was flying and all for the price of the odd brown paper bag to help things along.....of course those things never happened on labors watch cough cough Gordon nuttall cough cough
tragic as it was with the jobs gone they were only put there by labor in the first place at immense cost despite not being needed
hopefully us cane toads show some common sense come polling day
Report wombleoz January 19, 2015 9:20 PM GMT
Stick it to em Alan Laugh

Where's Tony???
Report AFL January 20, 2015 10:07 PM GMT
Queensland election: Newman government under scrutiny over coal donation

Exclusive: New details emerge of donation from New Hope Coal director to minister who oversaw air pollution clearance for coalmine expansion

Joshua Robertson

Wednesday 21 January 2015

The Queensland premier, Campbell Newman, has been forced to fend off attacks on the integrity of his government as new details emerged linking one of his ministers to a business figure involved in a controversial coalmine expansion.

Newman hit the election campaign trail on Tuesday with Ian Walker, who Guardian Australia can reveal took a donation from a board director of New Hope Coal before his election in 2012.

Walker, as the minister for science, information technology, innovation and the arts, subsequently oversaw the department which cleared levels of air pollution from uncovered coal trains in Brisbane before the expansion of New Hope’s Acland mine.

Walker was also acting minister for state development when he called
for public input on New Hope’s environmental impact statement for
Acland last year.

The state Labor leader, Annastacia Palaszczuk, has claimed that the Liberal National party government had opened the door to corruption and on Tuesday radio host Alan Jones renewed his attack on Newman over Acland.

Donor records show that New Hope director Bill Grant gave a $2,000 personal cheque to Walker’s campaign fund in October 2011.

The donation would have been secret under the LNP’s widely-criticised move to raise the threshold for declaring contributions from $1,000 to $12,400 last year.

The pollution study by Walker’s department was released to companies including New Hope a week before it was made public in 2013.

Walker, who appeared with Newman at a press conference on the Gold Coast announcing a new $60m tourism fund, left while refusing a request for interview from Guardian Australia.

In a statement later, Walker declined to explain the nature of his relationship with Grant but said all donations were “fully disclosed in accordance with the law”.

Walker said his office had no role in the pollution study, for which coal companies had paid $250,000.

Asked if those payments had created a conflict of interest, Walker said the decision to engage “the state’s top independent scientists shows a proactive role in ensuring clean air for Queenslanders”.

Palaszczuk at the Labor campaign launch suggested the LNP had paved the way for a return to the graft of “brown paper bag” politics in Queensland.

Newman said in response that there were “appropriate authorities that can deal with such things”. He accused Labor of running “a campaign about negativity and personality politics”.

“Why? They have no plan for Queensland, they don’t have the ticker to sort out the financial problems we inherited,” he said. “They certainly don’t know how to create jobs so they engage in this sort of thing.”

Newman repeatedly refused to say whether he had met Jones at his home before last election and promised to block the mine expansion.

A spokesman for Newman declined to comment on Walker and his relationship with Grant.

Jones has travelled to Queensland to run daily “election special” programs on 4BC radio, denouncing Newman as a “bully boy” and his government as the worst in Australia.

The decision to allow Acland to mine another 3m tonnes of coal a year was announced on the Friday before Christmas.

New Hope and its parent company, Washington H Soul Pattinson, donated more than $700,000 to the LNP at a state and federal level between 2011 and 2013.

Asked if New Hope’s donations influenced the government’s approval, Newman said: “I will not be commenting on Alan Jones.”

Asked by Guardian Australia if LNP officials had indicated whether the party’s donations had risen since it raised the secrecy threshold, Newman replied that he had “no idea”.

“You’ll have to ask them. I’m not involved,” he said.

Jones has also attacked the government over the energy minister, Mark McArdle, and the environment minister, Andrew Powell, accepting entertainment from New Hope in its corporate box at a Wallabies rugby game in Brisbane in 2013.

Activist group Clean Air Queensland said the Acland expansion would increase coal dust pollution in Brisbane.

Clean Air Queensland organiser Michael Kane said his tests showed emissions of particulate PM10 from uncovered coal wagons in Brisbane exceeded national safety levels tenfold, as often as 10 times a day.


Kane claimed the government study clearing the pollution levels by averaging emissions over 24 hours was “absolutely the wrong methodology”.

Walker said that methodology was “determined by departmental scientists exercising their independent professional integrity”.

QUT researcher Adrian Barnett said air pollution standards were “a political limit and shouldn’t be used as a health tool since no level of pollution is safe”.

New Hope’s chairman, Robert Millner, was called before the Independent Commission Against Corruption (Icac) in NSW last year over a donations controversy involving another Washington H Soul Pattinson subsidiary of which he was chairman, Brickworks.

Icac is due to complete its report this month on whether Brickworks’ donations to the Liberal party in NSW broke laws banning political contributions from developers.
Report wombleoz January 21, 2015 9:35 PM GMT
ReachTel yesterday has the LNP in front 52-48 which sounds not too far off the money - would be a 10-15 seat win to the bad guys.  Still a week and a bit to turn it around though - I'm waiting for Clive or Alan to come out with the death blow for the LNP, could happen

Betfair has Labor as favourite in Ashgrove - who will be Premier if that is right???
Report secong coming. January 21, 2015 10:03 PM GMT
qld cant afford labor - they will be spending an extra $200M a week in their promise list CrazyCrazy

lord knows why people think Kate would be any saviour for Ashgrove , lame duck minister in the worst govt ever to hit the states , anna blighs spendaholics with no plan
no wonder shes not in the public eye, poor track record and just playing on the anti Campbell brigade , pi$$ weak to be truthful
Report secong coming. January 21, 2015 10:37 PM GMT
(insert forum name here),you are a person who fiddles with little umm sewing needles............
but that's ok to write that as it's an opinion only?
...I don't think so
Report AFL January 21, 2015 11:31 PM GMT
Although it might have been the line that the political donations were thinly veiled bribes

Laugh
Report secong coming. January 21, 2015 11:34 PM GMT
This Gov't is corrupt

that's a statement that has no foundation....hypothetical until proven in court of law...this is out of line

of course you can outline that you THINK it is corrupt...not say it IS corrupt...geddit?
Report AFL January 21, 2015 11:41 PM GMT
That line been posted un censored many times without the IMO clarification. IMO Laugh
Report secong coming. January 21, 2015 11:42 PM GMT
LaughLaughLaughLaugh


I'm off now to burn up the average aussies carbon for the day, many winners to you WinkWinkWink
Report AFL January 21, 2015 11:45 PM GMT
Have a good oneWink
Report wombleoz January 22, 2015 9:26 PM GMT
i bet Campbell would've liked Tony and the boys to wait another week before launching their attack on workers LaughLaughLaugh
Report secong coming. January 23, 2015 4:03 AM GMT
maybe so but the 'attack' as you call it is out of the States control and the thinking electorate know that....pity about the con job by the unions on the young
Report wombleoz January 24, 2015 7:59 AM GMT
Newman won the people's forum last night, Annastacia way too nervous - he is an arrogant little prick though - i'm really looking forward to him losing his seat LaughLaughLaugh

Surely Queenslanders won't buy the "leasing not selling" line

I'd better be careful though, he might sue me ShockedShockedShocked
Report bigted. January 25, 2015 1:41 AM GMT

is suing Jones..

what a soft ****

Jones spewed bile day after day about Gillard,she had the toughness to handle it..not this weak ****

ahh love gone wrong Excited
Report BJT January 25, 2015 1:54 AM GMT
Politicians are all the same.  I wouldn't vote for any of them.  Well, I won't, or didn't, or when is voting happening?  WinkWink
Report henryluca January 25, 2015 9:21 AM GMT
Queensland's opposition leader says she'll repeal and replace Queensland's controversial anti-bikie legislation.,,,,,But the opposition leader refused to elaborate on what a Labor government would replace the laws with, saying only that her yet to be released law and order policy would make that clear.

CryCry

Community safety first IMO...Broadbeach all in brawl in a street of restaurants....despicable and should never be allowed to happen against ...no matter what the cost and who might be inconvenienced to achieve that outcome...imo  (oh did I mention the shooting at Robina Shopping Town in shopping hours)

And yes non Gold Coast residents can poo hoo the idea of infringing civil liberties of some....but there is no sign of any outlaw bikie gangs riding around anymore ...

Just sayin ..Public safety first
Report BJT January 25, 2015 9:54 AM GMT
Well, to be fair, if everybody was in solitary confinement, we would all be safe from others.  Maybe that is the way to go.  Take away all rights from everybody to keep them safe.  CrazyCrazy
Report The_KAMIKAZEE_DRINKING_MACHINE January 25, 2015 10:48 AM GMT
Good work Alan Jones.
Report wombleoz January 26, 2015 9:23 PM GMT
some parts of the bikie laws can stay but they go way too far - arrest people for criminal activity not for who they associate with

a bit of history for you Henry

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/labor-lnp-swapped-views-on-bikie-laws-20150106-12icp3.html
Report wombleoz January 26, 2015 9:24 PM GMT
any chance at all that Tony will make a last minute trip to Queensland or is he doing enough damage from Canberra LaughLaughLaugh
Report wombleoz January 28, 2015 9:37 PM GMT
Kate in front 54-46 Campbell in a world of pain - who will be premier???

I still don't think Labor can win but only because they are coming from so far behind - miracles can happen though Cool
Report wombleoz January 29, 2015 9:32 AM GMT
I'm willing to gift $20 to one of you LNP backers,  just need to give me the $8.20 I've asked for.  Buys you a you a couple of ciders when you win
Report VeryLTU January 29, 2015 11:30 AM GMT
if only andrew peacock was a forumite womble you could get a lifetime supply of strongbow or bulmers Wink
Report Monday mike January 29, 2015 1:22 PM GMT
Looks like Campbell and Tony will be on New start shortly.   They say a career change is as good as a holiday anyway.
Report wombleoz January 29, 2015 8:05 PM GMT
I need him to sign up Very

Come on this guys $8.20 very generous Anastasia doesn't even know what the GST rate is CrazyCrazyCrazy
Report VeryLTU January 30, 2015 12:44 AM GMT
Laugh mike .... hope they enjoy the rules they helped set a few years back LaughLaugh... i'd pay a thousand dollars to watch abbot with his hammer and planks, compulsory volunterring to build a ramp for a disabled pensioner for his bread and milk at days end !!! Crazy
Report wombleoz January 30, 2015 8:48 AM GMT
Got matched,  hopefully it was our local LNPers

poll out tonight 52 - 48 to the bad guys BUT that's with 2012 preferences. In that election only 40% of Green preferences went to Labor, it'll be more than that this time.

I still think I'll lose my $20 but I'll get a run for my money Happy
Report wombleoz January 31, 2015 12:31 AM GMT
couldn't resist - dipped back in and took the $8 that was left there last night as well

C'mon Labor Cool
Report bigted. January 31, 2015 1:21 AM GMT
Remember QLD - if Labor win, Bikies will be allowed to enter your home & tattoo your children & THERE WON'T BE A THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

VOTE 1 CAN'T DO Grin
Report VeryLTU January 31, 2015 1:45 AM GMT
LaughLaugh....... dead set teddy have u ever done stand up Wink..... er comedy i mean.
Report henryluca January 31, 2015 4:52 AM GMT
Bikies will be allowed to enter your home & tattoo your children & THERE WON'T BE A THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

Shocked

Do we get to keep our first born ! Wink
Report bigted. January 31, 2015 8:19 AM GMT
14 per cent swing in first booth from Cook Shocked  all bikies there ConfusedScared
Report The_KAMIKAZEE_DRINKING_MACHINE January 31, 2015 9:34 AM GMT
VLTU - does Centrelink know you have 1K to splash around?
Report bigted. January 31, 2015 9:56 AM GMT
boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom

Shocked
Report BJT January 31, 2015 9:57 AM GMT
Maybe if the bikies were locked up for possessing semi automatic weapons, instead of creating a false law to restrict everybody's freedoms, they wouldn't be an issue.........
Report bigted. January 31, 2015 10:01 AM GMT
So the big question is who will be chosen for the speaker - the Hells Angels or the Rebels Confused

Laugh
Report bigted. January 31, 2015 10:05 AM GMT
so far..its been an ok night for the true believers of qld imvho Plain
Report bigted. January 31, 2015 11:23 AM GMT
And according to  Brandis and Kroger , it's all Alan Jones' fault. What drugs am I on Confused

what dellusional mugs Laugh
Report The_KAMIKAZEE_DRINKING_MACHINE January 31, 2015 11:28 AM GMT
GO AJ!!
Report bigted. January 31, 2015 11:37 AM GMT
So  Newman is saying his political career is over..
How many days til he officially jumps on board with a multinational minerals industry parasite! ConfusedAngry Excited
Report The_KAMIKAZEE_DRINKING_MACHINE January 31, 2015 11:44 AM GMT
So what's happening? For those of us that aren't following the election results.
Report bigted. January 31, 2015 11:47 AM GMT
not much..but its all Labor's fault..Happy
Report The_KAMIKAZEE_DRINKING_MACHINE January 31, 2015 11:58 AM GMT
How's that cntt Campbell doing? I love how he tries to sneak in an election while AJ is on holidays. And then sues him. Freedom of speech Queensland style.
Report wombleoz January 31, 2015 11:24 PM GMT
Happy days are here again LaughLaughLaugh

Still some counting to be done but it's either Labor in their own right or Labor leading a minority government - well done Queensland, a great result that should change the way politics works forever. There are a hell of a lot less safe seats now and that's a good thing

oh and

Boom CoolCoolCool
Report henryluca January 31, 2015 11:49 PM GMT
couldn't resist - dipped back in and took the $8 that was left there last night as well

C'mon Labor Cool



Very WD Wombleoz
Report Monday mike February 1, 2015 1:48 AM GMT
Incredible turnaround from 9 seats to 45 or 46 seats for a Labor victory.   This is a massive protest vote against Abbotts arrogant scare mongoring Liberals.     Furniture trucks are circling Canberra Liberal MP offices waiting like hungry vultures.
Report henryluca February 1, 2015 2:09 AM GMT
One of the unique characteristics and basic tenets of a democracy is that its citizens get to vote – both figuratively and literally - and that each citizen is able to live the life of their choosing - to be able to say and do what they want.

We are a democracy.  A democracy is a form of government that is "of, by, and for" the people.  Of the People means the government is comprised of regular citizens;  by the people means the government is elected by its citizens; and for the people means that the sole purpose of government is to act in ways that benefit us. 

The democratic process is the way we make that happen.

We make the "of the people" part happen by running for public office;  we make the "by the people" part happen by doing the things needed to elect our best to public office; and we make the "for the people" part happen by doing those things that keep us educated on important issues, that keep elected officials aware of our points of view, and that enforce our laws.  The democratic process is not a methodology, but a way of living that keeps our country strong.

When we invest time, energy and money in something, we tend to care more about that something.  So actions that keep us involved in the democratic process help us care about and appreciate our democracy and freedoms.  They are the actions most closely associated with citizenship.


Well done ...Annastacia Palaszczuk...
Report wombleoz February 1, 2015 2:28 AM GMT
well done Henry

I hope Secong and Thebas are ok??? They've gone VERY quiet Wink
Report BJT February 1, 2015 3:46 AM GMT
Wasn't there a big swing to get him into power in the first place?  People weren't happy, so they swapped, now they aren't happy so they swap back, and think everything is going to be rosey?    ConfusedConfused

Ok then.
Report Joel February 1, 2015 3:51 AM GMT
People are never happy unless they are unhappy but history shows they are a lot less unhappy under a Labor Government.
Report Lordship February 1, 2015 4:10 AM GMT
Given Labor's track record, wonder how long it will be till they replace Annastacia?
Report BJT February 1, 2015 4:30 AM GMT
Surely they can't?  I mean people voted for her.  Surely that vote isn't really meaningless and they can put in whoever they like?  LaughLaugh
Report bigted. February 1, 2015 4:34 AM GMT
did they vote for her or against Newman..anyway when the LNP committed to job cuts in qld,I had no idea they meant their own Excited
Report therhino February 1, 2015 4:44 AM GMT

Jan 31, 2015 -- 8:28PM, wombleoz wrote:


well done HenryI hope Secong and Thebas are ok??? They've gone VERY quiet


Perhaps you all bored them to death with endless slogans and copy and pasting Silly

Report wombleoz February 1, 2015 6:20 AM GMT
I think she's earned a decent crack at the job, see how she goes though - they should never be sacred to replace a leader if the can't handle the job - don't want to end up laughing stock like Abbott Wink

the electorate is highly volatile and crying out for true leadership - not sure if they've found it last night but they will eventually
Report BJT February 1, 2015 6:30 AM GMT

Feb 1, 2015 -- 12:20AM, wombleoz wrote:


I think she's earned a decent crack at the job, see how she goes though - they should never be sacred to replace a leader if the can't handle the job - don't want to end up laughing stock like Abbott the electorate is highly volatile and crying out for true leadership - not sure if they've found it last night but they will eventually


Why should they be able to replace a leader?  Wasn't she voted in by the people in a democracy?

Report henryluca February 1, 2015 6:33 AM GMT
Politicians of all persuasions seemed to get in and start changing laws in some type of landmark way.....

Not sure if there are that many things "broken" that require fixing...

Rather than making existing laws work they want to leave their mark in history when perhaps it really isn't needed except for the sake of their ego .....

It seems that these laws are created not so much "for the people" but for the arrogance and egos of the pollies 

Just a thought
Report BJT February 1, 2015 6:35 AM GMT
Well, John Howard's mark should see him get a life sentence multiplied by about 10,000 for the atrocities he committed. Wouldn't be forgotten for a long time.....
Report henryluca February 1, 2015 6:51 AM GMT
Well, John Howard's mark should see him get a life sentence multiplied by about 10,000 for the atrocities he committed. Wouldn't be forgotten for a long time....

Sounds a bit harsh !Confused

Was second longest serving PM behind Menzies. ( I guess bad stuff usually remembered longer than good stuff)


Privatisation of Telstra---     iffy

Industrial relations reform---definitely needed

Tax reform (A broad-based consumption tax)  -----perhaps technical reasons but I's say iffy

International relations and national security---responsive to world events so probably necessary

Just naive opinionBlush
Report BJT February 1, 2015 7:10 AM GMT
International relations?

The guy was in charge of committing troops involved in the slaughter of thousands of innocent people, combined with ally forces by some resources suggesting over a MILLION people dead with his hands firmly on the trigger, because of mass deception and bullsiht lies about weapons of mass destruction.

Playing a part in the killing of up to a million people, and you think it is a bit harsh?  Not to mention the countless rapes of women and children and torture of thousands, at his hands.

Are you for real?  Is a bit harsh?



ffs
Report henryluca February 1, 2015 7:50 AM GMT
My memory is that IRAQ was seen by the ally nations as a threat to world peace ..right or wrong that was the opinion....I might have thought that the commitment  of our troops etc etc was also with the intention of the protection of Australia and other western world countries....

Not sure where your statistic of thousands of innocent people   comes from.but yes I recall there were innocent people in the cross fire etc...terrible....

Dont know where your statistic of " killing of up to a million people" comes from ....


Dont know where your statistic of " countless rapes of women and children and torture of thousands, at his hands" comes from......

But yes every war is terrible beyond words....

There was at the time a perception of a threat to world peace involving weapons of mass destruction ( chemical and biological ) which perhaps to decision makers at government level saw zero  room for error  and I also recall Saddam was given every chance to comply with various requests.

In those circumstances your comments were very much harsh.

Your reply however is  full of passion so it is respected.....

Comments and reply  above is just to give some balance to your personal comments.
Report BJT February 1, 2015 8:41 AM GMT
Statistics are there for all to see.  Just have a look.  Soldiers returning confessing to rape, torture, illegal invasion of thousands upon thousands of homes, carrying dumbie weapons to plant to validate attacks, reporting how they drove over families in the street in their 20 ton plus vehicles because they couldn't be bothered stopping.  Years, and years this has been going on.  And that is before the "collateral damage" of the bombs, missiles, etc etc etc etc etc etc.


And yes, your memory would be that the ally nations suggested they were a threat to "world peace".  By the way, when the fcuk has there been world peace?  Seriously.  But either way, this "opinion" was based on the "facts" that they had weapons of mass destruction ready to fire upon western civilisation.  But these "facts" they portrayed to you to give you your memory, was all based on absolute bullsiht.

The ‘facts’ – and they are comprehensive with links provided to the ‘evidence’ – continue for over a dozen pages and conclude with:

As a result of the 20 March 2003 invasion of Iraq, there have been at least 105,439 – 115,149 civilians killed, and the Wikileaks war logs suggest a further 13,750, according to Iraq Body Count.


And that doesn't include what has happened since, after our troops were committed.



Here is a question for you henry.  Did the UN back John Howard's invasion of Iraq, where hundreds of thousands of people died at the hands of Howard and Bush?



There was never a perception of a threat to world peace for a couple of reasons.  World peace is a fcuking myth.  And we only invaded Iraq because of oil.

Seriously, do you think a war that cost TRILLIONS of dollars, was based on some ill funded research?  They "knew" there was WMDs and they "knew" where they were. 

And what were they?  Fcuking trucks used to make hydrogen to fill WEATHER BALLOONS. 

Hundreds of thousands of people died, because Iraq was monitoring the fcuking weather.




A bit harsh?


The discovery by U.S. forces in Iraq of two mobile 'biological weapons laboratories' was touted by President Bush as clear evidence that Iraq possessed illegal weapons capabilities. However, it now is clear that these so-called labs were nothing more than hydrogen generation units based upon British technology acquired by Iraq in the 1980s, used to fill weather balloons in support of conventional artillery operations, and have absolutely no application for the production of biological agents.    ”
   
— Scott Ritter, a former United Nations weapons inspector, wrote in the San Francisco Chronicle on September 8, 2003



Dick Cheney continued to claim trailers were mobile labs
September 14, 2003 "Same on biological weapons--we believe he'd developed the capacity to go mobile with his BW production capability because, again, in reaction to what we had done to him in '91. We had intelligence reporting before the war that there were at least seven of these mobile labs that he had gone out and acquired. We've, since the war, found two of them. They're in our possession today, mobile biological facilities that can be used to produce anthrax or smallpox or whatever else you wanted to use during the course of developing the capacity for an attack." Dick Cheney, Meet the Press, NBC.

January 22, 2004 "In terms of the question what is there now, we know for example that prior to our going in that he had spent time and effort acquiring mobile biological weapons labs, and we're quite confident he did, in fact, have such a program. We've found a couple of semi trailers at this point which we believe were, in fact, part of that program." Dick Cheney, Morning Edition, NPR.





“    I looked at the four [sources] that [the CIA] gave me for [the mobile bio-labs], and they stood behind them, ... Now it appears not to be the case that it was that solid. At the time I was preparing the presentation, it was presented to me as being solid.[21] April 3, 2004
I feel terrible ... [giving the speech] ... It's a blot. I'm the one who presented it on behalf of the United States to the world, and [it] will always be a part of my record. It was painful. It's painful now.[4]" 2005


   
— Colin L Powell




Everybody found these trucks.  Everybody inspected them.  The only people that found that their wish to monitor the weather required us to invade them and slaughter their population, was US, UK, and "US"........


A bit harsh?



ffs.



Hope everybody voted.  Make a difference people.  CryCryCry
Report BJT February 1, 2015 8:46 AM GMT
Howard needs to go to jail.  In fact, he should really suffer the same result he contributed to Saddam.


Maybe then, our vote will make a difference.
Report henryluca February 1, 2015 9:20 AM GMT
BJT

As a result of the 20 March 2003 invasion of Iraq, there have been at least 105,439 – 115,149 civilians killed, and the Wikileaks war logs suggest a further 13,750, according to Iraq Body Count

Your great conclusion is from a source known as THE AIM NETWORK:

http://theaimn.com/complaint-john-howard-international-criminal-court/

They describe themselves as "The AIMN is a platform for citizen journalists and bloggers to write and engage in an independent media environment."

And refers to a complaint :

On 16 March 2012 the Search Foundation sent  complaint to Commissioner Tony Negus APM, the head of the Australian Federal Police. The complaint is substantially the same as the one which would be sent to the Court. As far as the domestic jurisdiction is concerned, the complaint was based on Mr Howard’s violation of Division 268 of the Australian Criminal Code Act 1995. That Division ‘received’ the substance of Article 6: Genocide; Article 7: Crimes against humanity, and Article 8: War crimes, as contained in the Statute of Rome.

The complaint was politely dealt with .

. . . The CDPP has considered the material you have provided and will not initiate a prosecution of Mr Howard based on this material. The material is not a brief of evidence, containing admissible evidence against Mr Howard. I also note that the allegations set out in your letter do not appear to fall within the terms of any offence contained in Division 268 of the Criminal Code.


And yes the providers of this platform for citizen journalists ans bloggers seek donations:

http://theaimn.com/donate/



Best to leave it at thatPlainPlain
Report secong coming. February 1, 2015 8:33 PM GMT
lol you guys a protest vote, all that happened is people didn't take to newman and restored the normal 2pp balance , I don't know the figures at the moment but have to say if not far off centre of 50/50 ....a protest vote was the last election 76 seats to 7.....
Annastacia didn't win newman lost , its quite simple
The people will see the Labor incompetency return to Qld as in the Bligh Beattie years and become more broke. Kate Jones ffs a pretty face who was part of the hopeless lot from before. I went back to my electorate and thought about it all and blah blah blah just lived off the hubbys $400K gov job bligh gave him....tough times
Surely she cant re hire a gut load of Public Servants as did the previous Labor admin to help blow out the deficit
Its sad the southerners and westerners are cheering when the state means nothing to them except the unions having their way again
Cant see things improving here economically for the state and come unpopular decisions will be made and the next election will likely swap over again

As for the Feds TA must make way as no one listens to him and Joe......some real time decisions on all matter of things like CGT & Super , tax breaks for the rich need to be urgently addressed
Unfortunately Malclom supports an ETS which as we all know does NOTHING for the environment most especially as China and India have free rein to burn all they like.....

Julie is the right person for the job however the blues promoting a woman to the top job seems a bit too far

And what a joke Bill Shorten on TV after the election then talks about leadership speculation and if TA being replaced need an election LOLOLOL
Bill you have a short memory YOU DID IT TWICE
Report wombleoz February 1, 2015 9:30 PM GMT
Good to see you're still kicking Secong - it wasn't a protest vote, it was a rejection on a leader and an ideology. From the outside the biggest issue was clearly privatisation of public assets along with the traditional state issues of health, education and jobs.

Labor will learn from their last defeat - well they had better do or they'll be out on their ear in 3 years time.

BJ - we elect parties, not leaders - the parties elect the leaders

Federal will be on the other thread Happy
Report BJT February 2, 2015 2:16 AM GMT

Feb 1, 2015 -- 3:20AM, henryluca wrote:


BJTAs a result of the 20 March 2003 invasion of Iraq, there have been at least 105,439 – 115,149 civilians killed, and the Wikileaks war logs suggest a further 13,750, according to Iraq Body CountYour great conclusion is from a source known as THE AIM NETWORK:http://theaimn.com/complaint-john-howard-international-criminal-cour... describe themselves as "The AIMN is a platform for citizen journalists and bloggers to write and engage in an independent media environment."And refers to a complaint :On 16 March 2012 the Search Foundation sent  complaint to Commissioner Tony Negus APM, the head of the Australian Federal Police. The complaint is substantially the same as the one which would be sent to the Court. As far as the domestic jurisdiction is concerned, the complaint was based on Mr Howard’s violation of Division 268 of the Australian Criminal Code Act 1995. That Division ‘received’ the substance of Article 6: Genocide; Article 7: Crimes against humanity, and Article 8: War crimes, as contained in the Statute of Rome.The complaint was politely dealt with .. . . The CDPP has considered the material you have provided and will not initiate a prosecution of Mr Howard based on this material. The material is not a brief of evidence, containing admissible evidence against Mr Howard. I also note that the allegations set out in your letter do not appear to fall within the terms of any offence contained in Division 268 of the Criminal Code.And yes the providers of this platform for citizen journalists ans bloggers seek donations:http://theaimn.com/donate/Best to leave it at that


You seriously think any department in Australia would investigate a prime minister of ours?


As for the numbers.


Scientific surveys:

Source    Estimated violent deaths    Time period
Iraq Family Health Survey    151,000 violent deaths    March 2003 to June 2006
Lancet survey    601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths    March 2003 to June 2006
Opinion Research Business survey    1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict    March 2003 to August 2007
PLOS Medicine Survey[2]    Approximately 500,000 deaths in Iraq as direct or indirect result of the war.    March 2003 to June, 2011
Body counts:

Source    Documented deaths from violence    Time period
Associated Press    110,600 violent deaths    March 2003 to April 2009
Iraq Body Count project    112,667–123,284 civilian deaths from violence. 174,000 civilian and combatant deaths[3][4][5][6]    March 2003 to March 2013
Classified Iraq War Logs[3][7][8][9]    109,032 deaths including 66,081 civilian deaths.[10][11]    January 2004 to December 2009
Overview. Iraqi death estimates by source[edit]
Summary of casualties of the Iraq War. Possible estimates on the number of people killed in the invasion and occupation of Iraq vary widely,[12] and are highly disputed.[13] Estimates of casualties below include both the 2003 invasion of Iraq and the following Post-invasion Iraq, 2003–present.

Iraq war logs[edit]
Classified US military documents released by WikiLeaks in October 2010, record Iraqi and Coalition military deaths between January 2004 and December 2009.[3][7][8][9][14][14][15] The documents record 109,032 deaths broken down into "Civilian" (66,081 deaths), "Host Nation" (15,196 deaths),"Enemy" (23,984 deaths), and "Friendly" (3,771 deaths).[11][16]

Iraqi Health Ministry[edit]
The Health Ministry of the Iraqi government recorded 87,215 Iraqi violent deaths between January 1, 2005, and February 28, 2009. The data was in the form of a list of yearly totals for death certificates issued for violent deaths by hospitals and morgues. The official who provided the data told the Associated Press said the ministry does not have figures for the first two years of the war, and estimated the actual number of deaths at 10 to 20 percent higher because of thousands who are still missing and civilians who were buried in the chaos of war without official records.[17]

The Associated Press[edit]
Associated Press stated that more than 110,600 Iraqis had been killed since the start of the war to April 2009. This number is per the Health Ministry tally of 87,215 covering January 1, 2005, to February 28, 2009 combined with counts of casualties for 2003–2004, and after February 29, 2009, from hospital sources and media reports.[17] For more info see farther down at The Associated Press and Health Ministry. More information.

Iraq Body Count[edit]
The Iraq Body Count project (IBC) figure of 110,937 – 121,227 civilian deaths from violence up to December 2012 includes reported civilian deaths due to Coalition and insurgent military action, sectarian violence and increased criminal violence.[18] The IBC site states: "it should be noted that many deaths will probably go unreported or unrecorded by officials and media."[19] The IBC website currently states that, "Further analysis of the WikiLeaks' Iraq War Logs may add 12,000 civilian deaths."

Iraq Family Health Survey (with WHO)[edit]
Iraq Family Health Survey for the World Health Organization.[20][21] On January 9, 2008, the World Health Organization reported the results of the "Iraq Family Health Survey" published in The New England Journal of Medicine.[22] The study surveyed 9,345 households across Iraq and estimated 151,000 deaths due to violence (95% uncertainty range, 104,000 to 223,000) from March 2003 through June 2006. Employees of the Iraqi Health Ministry carried out the survey.[23][24][25] See also farther down: Iraq Family Health Survey.

Opinion Research Business (ORB) poll[edit]
Opinion Research Business (ORB) poll conducted August 12–19, 2007, estimated 1,033,000 violent deaths due to the Iraq War. The range given was 946,000 to 1,120,000 deaths. A nationally representative sample of approximately 2,000 Iraqi adults answered whether any members of their household (living under their roof) were killed due to the Iraq War. 22% of the respondents had lost one or more household members. ORB reported that "48% died from a gunshot wound, 20% from the impact of a car bomb, 9% from aerial bombardment, 6% as a result of an accident and 6% from another blast/ordnance."[26][27][28][29][30]

United Nations[edit]
The United Nations reported that 34,452 violent deaths occurred in 2006, based on data from morgues, hospitals, and municipal authorities across Iraq.[31]

Lancet studies[edit]
The Lancet study's figure of 654,965 excess deaths through the end of June 2006 is based on household survey data. The estimate is for all excess violent and nonviolent deaths. That also includes those due to increased lawlessness, degraded infrastructure, poorer healthcare, etc. 601,027 deaths (range of 426,369 to 793,663 using a 95% confidence interval) were estimated to be due to violence. 31% of those were attributed to the Coalition, 24% to others, 46% unknown. The causes of violent deaths were gunshot (56%), car bomb (13%), other explosion/ordnance (14%), airstrike (13%), accident (2%), unknown (2%). A copy of a death certificate was available for a high proportion of the reported deaths (92% of those households asked to produce one).[32][33][34]

PLOS Medicine Study[edit]
The PLOS Medicine study's figure of approximately 460,000 excess deaths through the end of June 2011 is based on household survey data including at least 132,000 deaths that were caused directly by war-related violence. The estimate is for all excess violent and nonviolent deaths. That also includes those due to increased lawlessness, degraded infrastructure, poorer healthcare, etc. 405,000 deaths (range of 48,000 to 751,000 using a 95% confidence interval) were estimated as excess deaths attributable to the conflict. They estimated at least 55,000 additional deaths occurred that the survey missed, as the families had migrated out of Iraq. The survey found that more than 60% of excess deaths were caused by violence, with the rest caused indirectly by the war, through degradation of infrastructure and similar causes. The survey notes that although car bombs received more significant press internationally, gunshot wounds were responsible for the majority (63%) of violent deaths. The study also estimated that 35% of violent deaths were attributed to the Coalition, and 32% to militias. Cardiovascular conditions accounted for about half (47%) of nonviolent deaths, chronic illnesses 11%, infant or childhood deaths other than injuries 12.4%, non-war injuries 11%, and cancer 8%.[2]

Ali al-Shemari (earlier Iraqi Health Minister)[edit]
Concerning war-related deaths (civilian and non-civilian), and deaths from criminal gangs, Iraq's Health Minister Ali al-Shemari said that since the March 2003 invasion between 100,000 and 150,000 Iraqis had been killed.[35] "Al-Shemari said on Thursday [November 9, 2006] that he based his figure on an estimate of 100 bodies per day brought to morgues and hospitals – though such a calculation would come out closer to 130,000 in total."[36] For more info see farther down at Iraq Health Minister estimate in November 2006.

Costs of War Project[edit]
176,000–189,000 people were killed in violence in the Iraq war, including 134,000 civilians (using Iraq Body Count's figures), according to the findings of the Costs of War Project, a team of 30 economists, anthropologists, political scientists, legal experts, and physicians assembled by Brown University and the Watson Institute to study the effects of wars involving the United States since 2001. The project also examined the economic costs of the Iraq war, as well as the human and economic cost of war in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[37][38][39]

Overview. Death estimates by group[edit]
Iraqi Security Forces (aligned with Coalition)[edit]
From June 2003, through December 31, 2010, there have been 16,623 Iraqi military and police killed based on several estimates.[40] The Iraq Index of the Brookings Institution keeps a running total of ISF casualties.[41] There is also a breakdown of ISF casualties at the iCasualties.org website.[42]

Iraqi insurgents[edit]
From June 2003, through September 30, 2011, there have been 26,320-27,000+ Iraqi insurgents killed based on several estimates.[43]

Media and aid workers[edit]
136 journalists and 51 media support workers were killed on duty according to the numbers listed on source pages on February 24, 2009.[44][45][46] (See Category:Journalists killed while covering the Iraq War.) 94 aid workers have been killed according to a November 21, 2007, Reuters article.[47][48]

U.S. armed forces[edit]

Graph of monthly deaths of U.S. military personnel in Iraq from beginning of war to June 24, 2008.[49]
As of May 29, 2012, according to the U.S. Department of Defense casualty website, there were 4,425 total deaths (including both killed in action and non-hostile) and 32,223 wounded in action (WIA) as a result of Operation Iraqi Freedom.[50] As a part of Operation New Dawn, which was initiated on September 1, 2010, there were 66 total deaths (including KIA and non-hostile) and 301 WIA. See the references for a breakdown of the wounded, injured, ill, those returned to duty (RTD), those requiring medical air transport, non-hostile-related medical air transports, non-hostile injuries, diseases, or other medical reasons.[50][51][52][53][54][55][56]

Coalition deaths by hostile fire[edit]
As of 23 October 2011, hostile-fire deaths accounted for 3,777 of the 4,799 total coalition military deaths.[57]
Armed forces of other coalition countries[edit]
See Multinational force in Iraq.
As of 24 February 2009, there were 318 deaths from the armed forces of other Coalition nations. 179 UK deaths and 139 deaths from other nations. Breakdown:[51][52][58]

Australia — 2
Azerbaijan — 1
Bulgaria — 13
Czech Republic — 1
Denmark — 7
El Salvador — 5
Estonia — 2
Fiji — 1
Georgia — 5
Hungary — 1
Italy — 33
Kazakhstan — 1
Latvia — 3
Netherlands — 2
Poland — 30
Portugal — 1
Romania — 4
Slovakia — 4
South Korea — 1
Spain — 11
Thailand — 2
Ukraine — 18
United Kingdom — 179
Contractors[edit]
Contractors. At least 1,487 deaths between March 2003 and June 2011 according to the list of private contractor deaths in Iraq. 245 of those are from the U.S.[59][60][61][62][63] Contractors are "Americans, Iraqis and workers from more than three dozen other countries."[64] 10,569 wounded or injured.[59] Contractors "cook meals, do laundry, repair infrastructure, translate documents, analyze intelligence, guard prisoners, protect military convoys, deliver water in the heavily fortified Green Zone and stand sentry at buildings – often highly dangerous duties almost identical to those performed by many U.S. troops."[65] A July 4, 2007, Los Angeles Times article reported 182,000 employees of U.S.-government-funded contractors and subcontractors (118,000 Iraqi, 43,000 other, 21,000 U.S.).[60][66]
Overview. Iraqi injury estimates by source[edit]
Iraqi Human Rights Ministry[edit]
The Human Rights Ministry of the Iraqi government recorded 250,000 Iraqi injuries between 2003 and 2012.[67] The ministry had earlier reported that 147,195 injures were recorded for the period 2004–2008.[68]

Iraqi Government[edit]
Iraqi Government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh reported that 239,133 Iraqi injuries were recorded by the government between 2004 and 2011.[69]

Iraq war logs[edit]
Classified US military documents released by WikiLeaks in October 2010, recorded 176,382 injuries, including 99,163 civilian injuries between January 2004 and December 2009.[70]

Iraq Body Count[edit]
The Iraq Body Count project reported that there were at least 20,000 civilian injuries in the earliest months of the war between March and July 2003.[71] A follow up report noted that at least 42,500 civilians were reported wounded in the first two years of the war between March 2003 and March 2005.[72]

UN Assistance Mission for Iraq[edit]
The United Nations Assistance Mission for Iraq (UNAMI) reported that there were 36,685 Iraqi injuries during the year 2006.[73]

Iraqi Health Ministry[edit]
The Health Ministry of the Iraqi government reported that 38,609 Iraqi injuries had occurred during the year 2007, based on statistics derived from official Iraqi health departments' records. Baghdad had the highest number of injuries (18,335), followed by Nineveh (6,217), Basra (1,387) and Kirkuk (655).[74]



Does that help?

Why worry about what the website is, and who the people are that are seeking justice?  Why not worry about the facts.

The facts are, Iraq were monitoring their weather, and our elected prime minister, was involved in the murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis because of it.

Quite simple really isn't it?

They got the trucks, almost 20 years earlier, from the UK, but all of a sudden we were learning that they had these trucks which were mobile biological weapon factories?  We knew exactly what they were, and what was happening with them yet create a story to gain public opinion to go to war, and slaughter hundreds of thousands of people, so we could take control of their oil fields, because they were using the wealth to make weather balloons?


How can you possibly have anything to say to the contrary?  Are they not the facts?


Oh you voted for him and are trying to justify the guilt?

Report henryluca February 2, 2015 6:20 AM GMT
BJT Does that help?

With what?? ...accepting your statement :


BJT Joined: 30 Oct 04 | Topic/replies: 20,258 | Blogger: BJT's blog

Well, John Howard's mark should see him get a life sentence multiplied by about 10,000 for the atrocities he committed. Wouldn't be forgotten for a long time.....



I would be worried about myself if I thought like that...I dont think in that way..

But all wars are  horrible horrible events. No doubt many opinions will vary on --pain v gain.

Your comment  "John Howard's mark should see him get a life sentence multiplied by about 10,000 for the atrocities he committed"  is a statement of passion and  your passion is respected.
Report wombleoz February 2, 2015 9:06 PM GMT
Pauline a sneaky chance of winning ShockedShockedShocked
Report BJT February 3, 2015 1:07 AM GMT

Feb 2, 2015 -- 12:20AM, henryluca wrote:


BJT Does that help?With what?? ...accepting your statement :BJT Joined: 30 Oct 04 | Topic/replies: 20,258 | Blogger: BJT's blogWell, John Howard's mark should see him get a life sentence multiplied by about 10,000 for the atrocities he committed. Wouldn't be forgotten for a long time.....I would be worried about myself if I thought like that...I dont think in that way..But all wars are  horrible horrible events. No doubt many opinions will vary on --pain v gain.Your comment  "John Howard's mark should see him get a life sentence multiplied by about 10,000 for the atrocities he committed"   is a statement of passion and  your passion is respected.


The reason we went to war was because they held WMDs and were creating them in these mobile factories.  We knew this with 100% certainty.  Well, the public did.

Now we know they were making weather balloons, which was known by those in charge, the whole time, where exactly does the opinion vary?  It was an illegal invasion, that cost the life of over 100,000 people.



If you don't see a problem with it, then you see no problem with Saddam in the first place which kind of contradicts any opinion of yours.

Report BJT February 3, 2015 1:11 AM GMT

Feb 1, 2015 -- 3:30PM, wombleoz wrote:


Good to see you're still kicking Secong - it wasn't a protest vote, it was a rejection on a leader and an ideology. From the outside the biggest issue was clearly privatisation of public assets along with the traditional state issues of health, education and jobs.Labor will learn from their last defeat - well they had better do or they'll be out on their ear in 3 years time.BJ - we elect parties, not leaders - the parties elect the leaders Federal will be on the other thread


Excuse my ignorance, since I don't believe in voting, but in the box that needed to be ticked, was there a name next to it?  Was the name Campbell Newman on the ballot?  Of the independants voted for, does that mean we get to pick now whichever independent we like and can change them whenever we choose?  How do we go about this?


From what I understand, you vote for the person, and the party they represent is below them.  If people were voting Anastasia because they were voting against Campbell, then why didn't they just vote for his party without him as leader?  Or couldn't they?

Report henryluca February 3, 2015 5:34 AM GMT
Wiki:

The rationale for the Iraq War (i.e. the 2003 invasion of Iraq and subsequent hostilities) has been a contentious issue since the Bush administration began actively pressing for military intervention in Iraq in late 2001. The primary rationalization for the Iraq War was articulated by a joint resolution of the U.S. Congress known as the Iraq Resolution.

The U.S. stated that the intent was to remove "a regime that developed and used weapons of mass destruction, that harbored and supported terrorists, committed outrageous human rights abuses, and defied the just demands of the United Nations and the world".[1] Additional reasons have been suggested: "to change the Middle East so as to deny support for militant Islam by pressuring or transforming the nations and transnational systems that support it."[2] For the invasion of Iraq the rationale was "the United States relied on the authority of UN Security Council Resolutions 678 and 687 to use all necessary means to compel Iraq to comply with its international obligations".[3]

In the lead-up to the invasion, the U.S. and UK emphasized the argument that Saddam Hussein was developing "weapons of mass destruction" and that he thus presented a threat to his neighbors, to the U.S., and to the world community. The U.S. stated "on November 8, 2002, the UN Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution 1441. All fifteen members of the Security Council agreed to give Iraq a final opportunity to comply with its obligations and disarm or face the serious consequences of failing to disarm. The resolution strengthened the mandate of the UN Monitoring and Verification Commission (UNMOVIC) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), giving them authority to go anywhere, at any time and talk to anyone in order to verify Iraq’s disarmament."[4] Throughout late 2001, 2002, and early 2003, the Bush Administration worked to build a case for invading Iraq, culminating in then Secretary of State Colin Powell's February 2003 address to the Security Council.[5] Shortly after the invasion, the Central Intelligence Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency, and other intelligence agencies largely discredited evidence related to Iraqi weapons as well as links to Al-Qaeda, and at this point the Bush and Blair Administrations began to shift to secondary rationales for the war, such as the Hussein government's human rights record and promoting democracy in Iraq.[6][7] Opinion polls showed that people of nearly all countries opposed a war without UN mandate and that the view of the United States as a danger to world peace had significantly increased.[8][9][10] UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan described the war as illegal, saying in a September 2004 interview that it was "not in conformity with the Security Council."[11]

Critics
Accusations of faulty evidence and alleged shifting rationales became the focal point for critics of the war, who charge that the Bush Administration purposely fabricated evidence to justify an invasion that it had long planned to launch.
[12]


Supporters
Supporters of the war claim that the threat from Iraq and Saddam Hussein
was real and that it had later been established. The U.S. led the effort for "the redirection of former Iraqi weapons of mass destruction (WMD) scientists, technicians and engineers to civilian employment and discourage emigration of this community from Iraq."[13]





As I reiterate to my daughters often....2 people can walk into the very same room and see different things

Good discussion and we both good I hope!!
Report BJT February 3, 2015 6:25 AM GMT
That is only relevant, if you use that example as say, the first daughter walked in with a balloon shoved in her face , and saw a balloon.  The other daughter chose to shift the balloon out of her face and saw the whole room.


You are trying to show a different side to the argument, yet you have the UN secretary-general in your post as saying the invasion was illegal.

You have shown that the agencies the president used to come up with his "facts" didn't agree with him, the UN didn't support him.


And please don't suggest human rights *cough Rwanda cough Saudi Arabia cough cough*



Against the advice of everybody, they invaded Iraq and slaughtered ridiculous amounts of people.

Is that accurate, or not?
Report henryluca February 3, 2015 6:28 AM GMT
You are trying to show a different side to the argument, yet you have the UN secretary-general in your post as saying the invasion was illegal.

You have shown that the agencies the president used to come up with his "facts" didn't agree with him, the UN didn't support him.


Yes ...that was the article....it in part supported your passionate view...
Report henryluca February 3, 2015 6:28 AM GMT
You are trying to show a different side to the argument, yet you have the UN secretary-general in your post as saying the invasion was illegal.

You have shown that the agencies the president used to come up with his "facts" didn't agree with him, the UN didn't support him.


Yes ...that was the article....it in part supported your passionate view...
Report henryluca February 3, 2015 6:38 AM GMT
Well, John Howard's mark should see him get a life sentence multiplied by about 10,000 for the atrocities he committed. Wouldn't be forgotten for a long time....

This is the viewpoint I dont agree with .....fundamentally flawed given the words used in it ...which I put down to your passion.

The pain v gain discussion  is a different discussion and given the variance in opinion of those closer to the issue... it is one that you are passionate about and well I have given little if any thought to and even forgotten about. (quite frankly and perhaps heartlessly...)

Being passionate about it is a good thing....I am just not...but respect you for it...
Report wombleoz February 3, 2015 8:55 PM GMT
BJT

Excuse my ignorance, since I don't believe in voting, but in the box that needed to be ticked, was there a name next to it?  Was the name Campbell Newman on the ballot?  Of the independants voted for, does that mean we get to pick now whichever independent we like and can change them whenever we choose?  How do we go about this?


From what I understand, you vote for the person, and the party they represent is below them.  If people were voting Anastasia because they were voting against Campbell, then why didn't they just vote for his party without him as leader?  Or couldn't they?


You have never voted? number boxes next to candidate name, different candidates in different seats from different parties with scatterings of independents

I wish they would hurry up with the counting, I want my winnings Cool
Report therhino February 4, 2015 8:08 AM GMT
Only selling yourself short not voting BJ. The sausage sizzles are excellent. Generally get a nice char on the onions at the polling booth, far better than what Bunnings offer on a weekend.
Report BJT February 4, 2015 12:01 PM GMT
Just another way for them to track where everybody is IMO....  LaughLaugh
Report wombleoz February 4, 2015 9:09 PM GMT
Looks like we're getting closer to a result - Pauline probably just misses.  Key seats now are Ferny Grove where Labor should just fall over the line but the PUP candidate was an undischarged bankrupt and ineligible to run - by-election? Wait and see I guess. The other thriller is Whitsunday which closed to 88 votes yesterday - Labor behind 

If Labor get both they get to 45 and a majority.

If they get one of the two, shocked if they don't, they need one extra vote and I think Peter Wellington will announce that he is that vote today at 10.30 in his press conference

If they lose both they'll need the Katter Party as well - see what happens there

Should know soon
Report therhino February 5, 2015 10:54 AM GMT
Would you get sausages at a by-election?
Report wombleoz February 5, 2015 9:13 PM GMT
you would hope so Rhino
Report therhino February 6, 2015 6:17 AM GMT
Indeed womble. For making me go twice I would want a steak sandwich option as well.
Report VeryLTU February 7, 2015 12:01 AM GMT
Laugh
Report wombleoz February 7, 2015 12:14 AM GMT
very upmarket Rhino LaughLaughLaugh
Report bigted. February 7, 2015 1:49 AM GMT
Deposed Queensland premier Campbell Newman has been sounded out as a long-shot contender for Liberal Party pre-selection in a federal seat in Victoria.

Former secretary of the Wodonga Liberal Party branch Lloyd Deane has written to Mr Newman after raising the matter at a branch meeting this week.

Mr Newman was the major casualty in last weekend's Queensland election when he lost his seat of Ashgrove and the LNP is facing defeat.

The letter's existence was a hot topic at the Nationals' gathering in Wodonga this week where its leader Warren Truss confirmed his party would be targeting the seat of Indi at the next federal election.

Laugh
Report wombleoz February 7, 2015 10:33 AM GMT
Madness CrazyCrazyCrazy

Wish they would hurry up already
Report The_KAMIKAZEE_DRINKING_MACHINE February 7, 2015 10:48 AM GMT
This has just reminded me of something - I have to sort out my postal vote business asap. My polling booth is directly opposite my house. It's ludicrous. I can't stand having to drag myself away from punting or playing with cars or watching rugby or walking up to the bottle shop just to cast a vote in this boring safe seat. I've got better things to do.**

Also,and this is the worst bit,whenever I vote I always run into some dreary neighbour who wants to have a little chit chat. I can't stand it. Twenty questions with some CNTT that I LOATHE!! I feel like saying 'why don't we take this chat across the street and we can pound some beers and look at the Jag and maybe you might get your t1ts out or maybe not I'm not bothered either way.'

Postal votes are the go.









** DRINKING
Report wombleoz February 7, 2015 11:33 PM GMT
the massive pre-poll vote in Victoria is being taken to court by PUP - i hope they put an end to it

Save the sausage sizzle
Report wombleoz February 9, 2015 9:13 PM GMT
can't believe The Borg is trying to stay in power LaughLaughLaugh

sums what's wrong with the LNP though, born to rule mentality at it's worst AngryAngryAngry

Premier Palaszczuk by the end of the week and a boost to Betfair balance Cool
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