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wombleoz
20 Oct 14 22:48
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Date Joined: 15 Feb 03
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Shame he didn't make it to 100, a great PM who changed the country for the better in so many ways

RIP

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Replies: 56
By:
AFL
When: 20 Oct 14 23:06
A great Australian and a great PM.

RIP
By:
VeryLTU
When: 21 Oct 14 02:21
One of the only politicians, that i've seen at least, who actually wanted to do something positive for the People. Couldn't do what he wanted... but that's another story.

RIP Gough.
By:
VeryLTU
When: 21 Oct 14 02:22
everything he wanted.
By:
Thebas
When: 21 Oct 14 05:38
RIP Gough

i enjoyed the speeches ... and the humour ... was my first time voting ... had come of age a couple of years earlier

the ... It's Time campaign ... was indelible
By:
jfc
When: 21 Oct 14 06:50
An irresponsible buffoon.

Thank God for Kerr.
By:
AFL
When: 21 Oct 14 07:36
What garbage......Kerr was the irresponsle one who got some of what he deserved when he was pissed at the Melb

Cup.

What a pompous pr ik he was.

Whitlam did more for the country than Kerr or any from the right wing side of politics.
By:
earlycrow
When: 21 Oct 14 07:36
A man who shaped the nation and a man I am privileged to call a close mate. RIP Goughy
By:
therhino
When: 21 Oct 14 07:54
Before my time. He had been sacked a good 5 years before I was born. Done a bit of reading on the man. Thanks for medicare Gough, a great thing. Thank feck we're not like the yanks. They had free uni degrees in the 70s? WTF? I'm doing a degree now, only costing a lazy 25K. Where is my free uni degreeConfusedCry He forged relationships with China, stopped oil drilling on the reef... did a bit in 3 years.

RIP
By:
jfc
When: 21 Oct 14 07:56
It was one economic catastrophe after another.

Kinda'like Latvia or whoever sent their country broke daytrading.
By:
AFL
When: 21 Oct 14 08:03
People are just numbers to you right wing zealots.....

Gough showed us that we live in a society not an economy.
By:
AFL
When: 21 Oct 14 08:08
What a joke of a statement ......the things he did for people ...real people ...

and all JFC is worried about is the state of the books.

Says a lot about the priorities of the right wingers.
By:
jfc
When: 21 Oct 14 08:08
People were people before and after Gough.

But during Gough people increased their chance of poverty, thanks to his delusions.
By:
AFL
When: 21 Oct 14 08:10
How about a Governer General who decides to get pissed at an official function like the Melbourn Cup

what a disgrace.

JFC sounds like David Flint. Laugh
By:
therhino
When: 21 Oct 14 08:12
Laugh

Do you have an issue with Bob Hawke sculling beers at the cricket AFL? Disgraceful?
By:
AFL
When: 21 Oct 14 08:15
Liberals hate the poor. FACT.

Just gotta see Scum bag Abbot's work to understand that.
By:
AFL
When: 21 Oct 14 08:16
Give him a break he wasn't on the job he'd been retired 30 odd years. F/F/S

Kerr was on offical duty.
By:
jfc
When: 21 Oct 14 08:18
I'm hardly the one to criticise anyone else for social faux pas involving alcohol.

Goodness me. Irresponsible behaviour from someone at a race meeting!

But going back a year Kerr did the admirable and proper thing to save the nation from an inebriated binge spender.

There was an actual vote soon after.

And boy did the people speak!
By:
therhino
When: 21 Oct 14 08:19
I don't have an issue with sculling beers. I'm all for it, and I don't give 2 sh1ts about a bloke getting p1ssed at the races either. You throw the word 'disgrace' around a tad freely no? Just sayin. Chill the feck out dude. No one hates like you do man, you need a hug.
By:
AFL
When: 21 Oct 14 08:22
A GG pissed at any formal occasion  should be a sackable offence.
By:
AFL
When: 21 Oct 14 08:24
I don't hate anyone...... never have and never will.

So please don't tell me i do.
By:
jfc
When: 21 Oct 14 08:33
I've been known to get pissed, so a GG getting pissed makes me feel a common bond.

A year back when said GG was called upon to do his job for once, he performed courageously.

And the people didn't disagree.
By:
jfc
When: 21 Oct 14 08:37
I have any number of issues with my State of Excitement compatriot (sorta).

His irresponsible sculling prank within a kilometre of alcoholic infused violence and death in Kings Cross is certainly one.
By:
AFL
When: 21 Oct 14 08:39
A GG should only be allowed to sack their butler and staff and the sooner we are rid of them altogether the

better.

Total waste of space.
By:
jfc
When: 21 Oct 14 08:51
We're straying from the theme here.

I'm certainly for a republic, as I hold minimal truck with English domination.

Here, I'd prefer to see a ceremonial position so that PMs could focus on important work.

But back in Gough's time, under different circumstances, it's hard to see how Kerr could have preformed his duties better.
By:
therhino
When: 21 Oct 14 09:10

Oct 21, 2014 -- 8:37AM, jfc wrote:


I have any number of issues with my State of Excitement compatriot (sorta).His irresponsible sculling prank within a kilometre of alcoholic infused violence and death in Kings Cross is certainly one.


So you can get p1ssed at the races but you can't scull a beer within a km of a place where there has been booze related violence? Do you not think such things happen near Flemington? When as Aussies did we became the most easily offended people on the planet? Cry

By:
make me fly
When: 21 Oct 14 09:10
RIP Gough, you made us a better people, a better nation. Thanks for your service.
By:
megsy
When: 21 Oct 14 09:16
RIP Gough, man of wisdom who shaped Australia today very quick witted.
By:
jfc
When: 21 Oct 14 09:30
Hawke's sculling prank just highlighted his irresponsibility and his delusions. Who on earth is interested in a geriatric's drinking prowess? If that hastens his end, then good riddance!

Kerr would have had a tough year after doing the hard but right thing. Who cares whether he overreached on the hospitality? I'm certainly not one to cast stones.
By:
AFL
When: 21 Oct 14 09:42
Whitlam's memory was demonised by conservatives to excuse his dismissal

The constitutional crisis of 1975 is a reminder of the lengths to which politicians on the right will go in

the pursuit of power

David Marr   
theguardian. com 21 October 2014

Gough Whitlam dismissal Gough Whitlam addresses reporters outside parliament in Canberra after his dismissal by the governor general during the constitutional crisis of 1975. Photograph: Keystone/Hulton Archive

A few great events in the history of this country are known simply by their year: 1788 means European settlement, 1915 means Gallipoli. And 1975 is the name we give to the ruthless clawing down of Gough Whitlam.

Scarcely any constitutional lawyers left alive applaud Sir John Kerr for what he did to the Labor prime minister on 11 November that year. Not all the plotters are dead. From time to time fresh details emerge of the outrages planned behind closed doors by Kerr and his circle. But the verdict of both the law and history has been savage: there was no justification for the sacking of Whitlam.

The many mistakes of his government were not for the governor general to correct. The electorate would do that in good time. But the opposition was impatient. A mighty panic was running in Australia. The fate of the nation was said to be at stake. The newspapers of all the proprietors were urging vice-regal intervention.

Whitlam’s weakness in the crisis was his deep attachment to convention. He was not the radical here. Since blocking supply was last threatened in the UK in the early years of the century, an upper house cutting off the government’s cash was considered beyond the democratic pale.

But not by the Liberal and Country parties in Australia. Whitlam went to the polls when the opposition threatened supply in 1974 and stared down Malcolm Fraser when he threatened again in 1975.

But the lawyer and historian in Whitlam never really believed the opposition would carry out its threat. From the sidelines, an elderly Bob Menzies urged the party he created to do the right thing and pass supply. Liberal senators were on the brink of cracking. Then Kerr struck.

November 11 was a day of no constitutional significance. Whitlam went to Yarralumla with money to govern for at least another fortnight and the undisputed support of the House of Representatives. That’s how we make governments in this country: confidence and supply.

Whitlam wanted to call an election for half the Senate. There were good prospects this would give him control of the upper house. Instead of accepting his advice, which every convention dictated, Kerr sacked him and installed Fraser to take the country to a double dissolution.

Whitlam returned to the Lodge shattered. He might have contested Kerr in the high court. Instead he chose the traditional ground: parliament. That afternoon Kerr refused to receive the Speaker bringing news to Yarralumla that Whitlam had won vote after vote of confidence in the house.

Whitlam believed his martyrdom would win him re-election. But not for the last time, Australia showed itself to be a practical nation. The country was bitterly divided over the sacking but keen to be rid of Labor. Labor’s mistakes and the climate of fear did their work.

Whitlam never recovered. His political magic deserted him. Defeat in 1975 was followed by a second terrible defeat in 1977. He lived on for decades, a great presence in Australia, a hero to his people and a prime minister whose memory had to be demonised all the more extravagantly by the right to excuse the manner of his downfall.

After the sacking, the constitution was cleaned up to make one key breach of convention in 1975 impossible. The sacking happened only because New South Wales and Queensland rorted the Senate by appointing enemies of Whitlam to Labor vacancies. That can’t happen any more. But little else has changed.

Malcolm Turnbull once remarked to me that 1975 was “a sui generis **** up”. Yet it still hangs like a question mark over politics in this country, a reminder of Australia’s strange vulnerability to panic and the lengths to which politicians who call themselves conservative will go in the pursuit of power.

Kerr has his defenders still among the politicians of the Coalition. Those who say 1975 is over and done with should pay attention to Tony Abbott over the next few days as he puts in a good word for Kerr. Since the prime minister’s university days, Kerr has been one of his particular heroes. Abbott has an unshakeable belief that 1975 was right.

And vouching for Kerr will remind Australians that this ugly coup isn’t behind us.

One side of politics will still not disown what he did and oppose any attempt to be rid of the ancient and contested powers of the governor general which remain, in ruthless hands, ready to wreak havoc on Australian democracy.
By:
megsy
When: 21 Oct 14 09:48
jfc...you enjoying your medicare card gough brought in?...I thought so Crazy
By:
jfc
When: 21 Oct 14 09:51
What a pity Marr couldn't have exposed his expose before the election at the time.
By:
bigted.
When: 21 Oct 14 10:01
rip great man....

Eight years went by, eight long years of waiting
Till one day a tall stranger appeared in the land

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_ndC07C2qw
By:
Castiron
When: 21 Oct 14 12:25
jfc, showing his true colours. What a pompous tool.
By:
wombleoz
When: 21 Oct 14 12:29
agreed, a total lack of respect - as they say in the classics - if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all
By:
THERE....IS....NO....SPOOOOON
When: 21 Oct 14 12:30
Shame he didn't make it to 100, Settle Wombler Mischief He had a bloody fair innings.

not sure there's much joy amongst the aches and failing faculties and running gear in your 99th year Cry

RIP Gough.
By:
henryluca
When: 21 Oct 14 12:43
Very complex era of our nations political history.

Was Gough Whitlam a good or bad PM?
Was Malcolm Fraser right or wrong?
Was John Kerr weak or strong?


Opinions divided:

GW-

“elder statesman” or

“leader of the worst government in Australia’s history

One belief in common :

"no Prime Minister changed Australia more than Gough Whitlam"

Perhaps more important than the emotional and political narrations of 1975 and the many legal constitutional  debates since then  -----what did the people of Australia think was best for Australia and its future generations at the 1977 election

1977 election ---time for labour to resume power_??

"Liberal Party of Australia led by Malcolm Fraser with coalition partner the National Country Party led by Doug Anthony, in government since 1975, was elected to a second term over the Australian Labor Party Opposition led by Opposition Leader Gough Whitlam. While the Coalition suffered a five-seat swing, it still had a substantial 48-seat majority in the House."

----48 seat majority.


Very difficult to ignore the historical facts relating to the average Australian and their political opinion as to what was best for Australia in 1977.



RIP Gough...and well done for the many good things you were able to do in a very short period as PM
By:
wombleoz
When: 21 Oct 14 21:21
Tried to do too much too fast with the world economy decline making it all the more difficult but still achieved a hell of  a lot. 

Rather than consider the judgment of those in 1977 who were doing it tough, think of how the changes Gough made - or started - are impacting us today.  Economically, I'd suggest the biggest of which was opening the door to China

Closer to home it's hard to believe a lot of suburbs didn't have indoor toilets until after he came in and made it happen

Big picture or small he changed Australia forever - in the main for the better imo
By:
Castiron
When: 21 Oct 14 22:48
Ending conscription was a big one for me, personally. I was in the second last group, before it ended, and luckily for me, my number didn't come up.
By:
wombleoz
When: 22 Oct 14 11:11
good timing Castiron Happy
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