womble, I'm receiving rebates through one of the totes. Most of my betting is on the trifectas, quinellas, exactas, trebles etc, on Harness Racing in one state. In the 18 months, I have been getting the rebate, my turnover has increased 125%. I'm betting into small pools most of the time and I consider it a win win for all concerned.

http://www.markread.com.au/help/Oddsservice.aspx

Castiron,

Your join date here is enough to show that there is very little resemblance between you and the new blood I was referring to.

Now, I believe no Tote Punter now makes it up to the Tote Kickback grade.

Instead they avail themselves of Tote Aggregators (some legal, others to avoid at all costs) to allow betting into all Totes, and a much better Kickback deal with lower hurdles.

One more crazy situation where going through middlemen who don't forget to take their cut, is better than going direct!

Most of the Exotic Rakes are far in excess of 17%.

And there is still absolutely no need for middlemen. The Totes have millions of customers. What possible sanity is there in refusing to offer competitive deals to a 100 or so High Value Clients, thus forcing them through middlemen or unlicensed outfits?

There is a similar insanity with with Totes failing to provide adequate Pool data to most of their customers, instead selling off that data to middlemen who surprise, surprise charge!

And returning to a key point of this thread:

Take away those huge Kickbacks and other Edges that massively advantage Walsh and a few, and seriously disadvantage the overwhelming majority, and see how long that privileged lot last at their current levels.

I wan't accusing you of going through a middleman, and I don't care if anyone does, since for most that's the best option.

What I was politely trying to raise is that something seems to be missing from your story.

For example if you've now managed to reach the Premium Level, it's weird that you were previously paying the Full Rake, when you could have done massively better through middlemen.

So it looks like you are leaving some key information out. And perhaps that may be your right.

But I can't see how you can justify your claim Kickbacks are Win Win for all, when your personal situation seems to be highly atypical.

jfc

I'm restricted by a confidentiality agreement in giving full details, but I'm a mile off being at the Premium Level.

I strongly believe that both myself and the party that I'm dealing with, benefits from our agreement.

My situation is not unique as there are two other forum members that I know of, that receive a similar deal.

I was platinum with NSW and got the fcuk off.  Would love for them to give me rebates, but they won't even take my bets for the most part.

I've just gone to the trouble of checking that Pool sizes are dropping every year, probably since Kickbacks came in, making it very hard to argue that Kickbacks keep Pool big.

Furthermore so much big money now goes on extremely late - and appears in the Pools after jump. So before jump, the pools appear even smaller. Again defeating this argument.

While decreasing Pools are due largely to a migration to other segments like Fixed, some of the biggest players are not in a position to go there. So the real decline in small punters is even more marked.

And once enough of the small punters vanish, whom are the Kickback beneficiaries then going to exploit?

Again, the Kickbacks that bestowed so much undeserved wealth on Walsh and others, have also managed to run Tote punting into the ground.

Yet some of you actually wish Walsh good luck for this fiasco!

I can't force anyone to check out that earlier link I gave to VITAB.

But anyone who does and checks some more to become informed, should be left with little doubt how the idiotic Kickbacks infested the caper.

It beggars belief that at the time when every Punter knew Kickbacks were illegal, that some executive suddenly went round to a few offering them 10%.

The askers didn't actually ask for the Kickback.

Instead they misrepresented themselves as a conduit for Asian money, when the vast proportion of that money was from Zeljko-Walsh Australian money.

This is in a number of Hansards.

Crispin Hull wrote a series of newspaper articles.

The Burbridge Report was comprehensive.

Fossen has written a number of books about it.

This material is not hard to find.

But you don't want read any of that.

Instead you want to insult everyone's intelligence by suggesting Walsh deserves good luck for his role.

I think Castiron is right - especially with the smaller pools, the guys getting rebates are propping up the pools and attracting more money, i'd hate to think what would be in them if they weren't there.



After I go to the trouble of pointing out that decreasing Pools are a fact, and that a smaller proportion than ever of that money is visible before jump, how on earth can anyone claim that small Pools would somehow improve?

In fact the smaller the Pool the closer it is to zero at jump.

So who on earth, small or big, would bother betting into them? Let alone prop them up!

Secong

would you knock back a rebate if you were offered one JFC?

If I was actually advocating for Kickbacks then perhaps people might consider themselves entitled to ask such questions.

But as nothing could be further from the truth, neither you nor anyone else have any reason to pry into my personal circumstances.

Why on earth would anyone need to have that actually spelled out for them!

It's hard enough to cope with the endless stream of morons like Philip Adams and the whole of the ABC who can't figure out how Walsh really lucked out.

But to have presumed Punters here incapable of figuring how bad others' Kickbacks are for them just raises the hurdles for my coping mechanism.

Anyway permit me to offer my idea what would happen to any of those 99% who suddenly found themselves on the Kickback train.

A significant proportion of them would ruin their lives.

None of them would end up better off.

What is it that's so hard to grasp!

Can anyone here seriously believe that those who go to unimaginable lengths to stitch up those absurd Kickbacks haven't taken the appropriate steps to ensure to no one else gets a look in!

What exactly is the difference between MONA and Stillettos?