War - what is it good for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mamvq7LWqRU


Impossible...

Who flew the planes?

I guess what you are saying, you believe Elvis is still alive

How do you know anybody was flying them, and how many planes was there?  You really think it was a plane that flew into the pentagon?


And what does Elvis have to do with anything?  Are you one of those people that have to believe everything you are told or nothing?

I'm pretty sure someone was flying them. Just examining your theory. I don't think planes can taxi and take off by themselves can they?

Just one more question.
How do you explain the many phone calls made by passengers on the planes. Eye witnesses to the hijackings.
Are all the surviving relatives telling porkies?

Whoopi he's a conspiracy theorist nutter in these instances, don't bother wasting your breath, the world trade centre collapse cost their financial sector a fortune in lost personnel. insurance claims etc,etc. One thing that you know the Americans hate doing is losing money unnecessarily, it cost their economy a squillion as did the ensuing war in Iraq, yeah but they did it to themselves, or it was a zionist plot, give me a break.

Oct 6, 2014 -- 5:59AM, whoopi wrote:

I'm pretty sure someone was flying them. Just examining your theory. I don't think planes can taxi and take off by themselves can they?

Oh dear.  Really?  What year are you from?

just realised a problem with blocking him... no more laughs at the delusional conspiracy theories. Don't tell me, he's cut and pasted something from MAD magazine to explain 9/11

if you're that desperate to find out very log out and close down your browser reopen it and don't log in and then click on the forum or alternatively if you have another browser explorer, chrome, whatever open it on betfair click on the forum without logging on and you should be to read it and yes to answer your question you're not far off the mark. Schizophrenia is often caused by smoking dope on anything resembling a regular basis especially if you already have a proclivity towards that condition but no side effects to be seen here of course.

No need to ridicule.
So we have a drone passenger aircraft. That means the air traffic controllers are in on it too?
The number of conspirators grows exponentially.
So we'll add them to the 123,000 members of the American Society of Civil and Structural engineers who agree with the NIST report into the collapse of the towers.
Indeed they so believe it was possible that a whole raft of recommendations came as a result of the report, aimed at remedying problems with the structural code.
You didn't answer the phone call question.
If you raise a theory you can't get upset when that theory is subject to the same intellectual rigour as the theory you have rejected.

not to mention the jet that the passengers caused to crash short of its target when they over powered the hijakckers I think it crashed in Pennsylvania from memory

Oct 6, 2014 -- 6:57AM, whoopi wrote:

No need to ridicule.So we have a drone passenger aircraft. That means the air traffic controllers are in on it too?The number of conspirators grows exponentially.So we'll add them to the 123,000 members of the American Society of Civil and Structural engineers who agree with the NIST report into the collapse of the towers.Indeed they so believe it was possible that a whole raft of recommendations came as a result of the report, aimed at remedying problems with the structural code.You didn't answer the phone call question.If you raise a theory you can't get upset when that theory is subject to the same intellectual rigour as the theory you have rejected.

The air traffic controllers were aware of a drill being undertaken by the air force involving a first time scenario of passenger planes being hijacked and targetting US landmarks.


So 123,000 have come out and said they agree with the report word for word?  Or that many just didn't question it?  Have you read the report?  Is this similar to the "97% of climate scientists agree"?
What are your "facts" based on?  They concluded that there were pilots, hijackers, passengers, that flew a plane into the towers, and concluded that the man American agents were looking after in hospital weeks before must have orchestrated it, even though they couldn't find this man on his death bed for a decade?
Clever people.


You believe every word of the official story.  Right?


And phone calls?  Like Betty Ong, who didn't even know what flight she was on, what seat she was in, couldn't get to business class due to the fumes, yet knows the cockpit was locked, didn't know how many people were involved,  yet somehow those she called could narrow it down to seat numbers in first class based on guesses, and there are your hijackers?

Yeah, that really didn't answer anything that I raised.
To take off, a pilot interacts with air traffic control. That hijack training scenario stuff is irrelevant to that fact. There are recordings of this happening.
Were the cabin crew in on it? They were happy to fly on a plane without a pilot?
Attacking me doesn't further your argument.
Betty Ong was far from being the only phone call, and if she was confused, as a fellow human being I find that understandable. Stress has an adverse effect on most of us.
The structural engineers concluded that the buildings collapsed as a result of the planes hitting them.
It's not for me to prove your theory for you.
That other stuff you mentioned in regard to that is once again irrelevant to the issues I raised.
Can I put it to you that it is indeed YOU that has the penchant for believing theories without supporting evidence.

"AS IF" is not supporting evidence

Anyway, have a good night on the punt.
I'm off

Attacking you?

"As if"? 


And no.  The reports stated a lot of hypotheticals.   They were commissioned by the government to determine “determining why and how WTC 1 and WTC 2 collapsed following the initial impacts of the aircraft, and why and how WTC 7 collapsed.”

The claims they make in the report are not backed up by the evidence.  For example none of the steel samples NIST investigated reached anywhere near 600 degrees celcius, yet that is most of the basis of their claims.  They also claim "if the fireproofing was stripped off" yet there is no evidence that it was or even could be.  The tests they relied upon were done with very minimal fireproofing, based on standards from the 1960s, and they found a 3 inch floor sag, yet their computer models show 45 inches.

It is simply hypothesising on how a building could collapse if an airplane hit it.  It is full of if statements, and scenarios, but not concerned at all with the reality of the materials and what they had been through.
Sure at 600 degrees steel will become a lot weaker, but so what?  None of the steel samples they tested got anywhere near that.




I don't claim to have all the answers.  I just know that the official story is full of holes, and some completely false statements.  Why the need to cover anything up if it was legit?


Anyway, have a good night on the punt.
I'm off

Cheers.  Later

BJT

And what does Elvis have to do with anything?  Are you one of those people that have to believe everything you are told or nothing?


ffs that's what im asking YOU...you believe everything you read and see ,no harm then in me asking have you seen elvis ;)lol,lol

planes flying themselves??? pmsl...pleaseeeeeeeeee


ohh by the way, the terrorist flying flight 83 I think it was didn't realise his radio was on for air traffic and other planes to hear him tell the passengers "keep calm, I have a bomb on board we are returning to land. and the flight box hearing paasengers trying to break into the **** pit before calling out out allah is great and nose diving the plane.

during planning for the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the CIA’s Iraq Operations Group considered creating a fake video of Saddam Hussein engaged in sexual acts with a teenage boy, then flooding Iraq with copies of the tape.
That idea, along with faking Iraqi news bulletins, never came to fruition according to the former CIA officials, because agreement on the projects could not be reached between the Iraq Group and CIA’s Office of Technical Services.
However, the two sources reveal that the agency did previously concoct at least one fake Bin Laden video:
The agency actually did make a video purporting to show Osama bin Laden and his cronies sitting around a campfire swigging bottles of liquor and savoring their conquests with boys, one of the former CIA officers recalled, chuckling at the memory. The actors were drawn from “some of us darker-skinned employees,” he said.

My bad, you heard an audio recording.  Must be all true then....

sounds like Abbott will announce boots on the ground today

not a good move, not a good move at all

miraculously BJT you think building 7 just fell straight down like it was detonated
fact, the building burned all day on lower floors,weakening its structure.
fact, no detonating bombs were heard before the building collapsed.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056088/Footage-kills-conspiracy-theories-Rare-footage-shows-WTC-7-consumed-fire.html

in regards to your poor form re audio, typical reply of someone on the back foot.

United Airlines Flight 93 was a domestic scheduled passenger flight that was hijacked by al-Qaeda on September 11, 2001, as part of the September 11 attacks. It crashed into a field near the Diamond T. Mine in Stonycreek Township, Pennsylvania, near Indian Lake and Shanksville, during an attempt by some of the passengers to regain control, killing all 44 people aboard including the four hijackers. No one on the ground was injured. The aircraft involved, a Boeing 757–222, was flying United Airlines' daily scheduled morning domestic flight from Newark International Airport in New Jersey to San Francisco International Airport in California.

The hijackers breached the aircraft's cockpit and overpowered the flight crew approximately 46 minutes after takeoff. Ziad Jarrah, a trained pilot, then took control of the aircraft and diverted it back toward the east coast of the United States in the direction of Washington, D.C. Although the specific target is not known, it is believed that the hijackers were intending to crash the plane into either the White House or the Capitol Building.[1]

After the hijackers took control of the plane, several passengers and flight attendants were able to make phone calls and learn that attacks had already been made by other hijacked airliners on the World Trade Center in New York City and the Pentagon outside Washington, D.C. Some of the passengers then fought the hijackers in an attempt to gain control of the aircraft. During the attempt the plane crashed into a reclaimed strip mine in Stonycreek Township, near Indian Lake and Shanksville in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, about 65 miles (105 km) southeast of Pittsburgh and 130 miles (210 km) northwest of Washington, D.C. A few witnessed the impact from the ground and news agencies began reporting the event within an hour.

Subsequent analysis of the flight recorders recovered from the crash site revealed how the actions taken by the passengers prevented the aircraft from reaching the hijackers' intended target. Of the four aircraft hijacked on September 11 – the others were American Airlines Flight 11, American Airlines Flight 77 and United Airlines Flight 175 – United Airlines Flight 93 was the only one that did not reach its hijackers' intended target.

Not really providing anything new now are you.....

well tell me sunshine, you reckon building 7 was detonated how it fell.

tell me how they did it wiTH out the BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOOM, BOOOM, BOOOOOOOOOM before it fell.


wouldn't you expect the building to blow up with tense fire on the lower floors burning all day ?


maybe one of your remote control areoplanes did the job?

ELVIS  HAS LEFT THE BUILDING.........PMSL

There were 6 floors that burned out of control in the building, that led to a total collapse?  Kidding yourself.

And why do I need to explain how they did it without the boom boom, when there clearly was boom boom?

PMSL

finally ive met someone who if you said the sky was blue, would argue with you by saying he differed...

You say that like it is a constant? 

The sky only appears blue to us on a clear day when the sun is at certain angles because of the way the light is refracted through the gases in the atmosphere.

When coming from near horizontal, the light refracts us different parts, showing up as oranges and pinks.  Of course on a cloudy day, it is different again, showing up as a greyish color.  May also note that at night, without the light source of the sun, the light isn't getting to us at all, so therefore cannot be blue.


I fail to see the relevance though with that and the facts of many witnesses describing explosions and "bombs" preceding each of the buildings falling.

Kobane a mess - the Kurds want the Turks to help but the Turks won't help unless they can go after Assad as well.  Now the town looks like falling and the odds are there'll be trouble in Turkey as a result

Syrian children have reported their desert sand castles mysteriously keep collapsing, conspiracy theories are possible, we should send BJT to investigate, those darn yanks at it again

if the turks roll in, it will start a bigger problem. sadly only way now is feet on the ground troops to rid ISIS from Kobane.

protests in turkey by kurds happening

with Kurds getting killed for protesting - it's a mess, a real mess

would the 600 troops we have sitting over there doing nothing be doing more to help the world by being in West Africa fighting ebola??

I think so

these soldiers womble are the finest SAS in the world. They aint nurses mate.

They might be able to shoot the virus

bring them home and send another 600 to Africa Megsy - would do more good

the 2 incidents in Canada over the last 24 hours or so raise the question - did they only happen because Canada got involved? or would they have happened anyway??  Thoughts go out to all associated with servicemen that were killed

lets not be in Iraq/Syria and let them do what they want and before long those places wont be enough....the whole west they will want to rule....

consider the 2002 incident in Bali by Islamic extremists - did it happen because we got involved with....err hang on we weren't involved with anyone at the time....Iraq wasn't until 2003....so why did innocent tourists get targeted then??

I'd suggest we are targets 24/7/365 regardless of any involvement anywhere ,because these fruit loops hate our freedoms, brain washed loonies

the first Gulf War was in 1990-91

let them sort out their own problems and stay out of it i'd suggest - the moderates will win out in the end - if we get out of the way

the moderates will win?....womble, the ISIS want to rule the world, they aint normal,coalition forces are  standing up for freedom and peace in their own countries. ban these lunatics from re entering their mainly host country that gave them a new start in life only to attempt a  demand we convert to their ways....we don't need these idiots coming back home with these skills they have become accustom to, {beheadings) slaughtering woman and children, rape )and preach this.

there's also less than 100k of them Megsy, over 1 billion moderates - i'll back those numbers any day

race 5 no. 8 at MV tonight "Cult of Isis"

Oct 24, 2014 -- 6:43AM, megsy wrote:

the moderates will win?....womble, the ISIS want to rule the world, they aint normal,coalition forces are

coalition forces are  standing up for freedom and peace in their own countries.

Actually, they are fighting for the opposite of that.  Create fear to keep war and restrict freedoms...

http://ozziesaffa.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/i-bet-she-regrets-asking-her-question.html

a very telling argument against doing nothing at all...

Nobody suggested they have done nothing at all though.

BJT







     BJT   






  27 Oct 14 03:10 
Joined:


  30 Oct 04 
    | Topic/replies: 18,446  | Blogger: BJT's blog   



coalition forces are  standing up for freedom and peace in their own countries.

Actually, they are fighting for the opposite of that.  Create fear to keep war and restrict freedoms...



are you for real??....each to their own opinion I guess, hope no radicals live next door to you mate

there's enough there that can sort it out on their own and us, and the rest of the west, getting out will reduce tensions

Oct 27, 2014 -- 7:24AM, megsy wrote:

BJT        BJT     27 Oct 14 03:10  Joined:   30 Oct 04      | Topic/replies: 18,446  | Blogger: BJT's blog   coalition forces are  standing up for freedom and peace in their own countries. Actually, they are fighting for the opposite of that.  Create fear to keep war and restrict freedoms... are you for real??....each to their own opinion I guess, hope no radicals live next door to you mate

Even if there is a real threat to us, it is only because we are sticking our nose where it doesn't belong.

Where is the war against Saudi Arabia who behead people weekly for going against Islam's Sharia Law?  No war, Americas biggest middle eastern ally.  Between 4th August and 22nd September, there were 31 beheadings there, yet 2 leading up to , ummm, September 11, was enough to suggest that world was at threat to a terrible religious extremist group and we must go to war no matter how many civilians will lose their lives at our hands.

So let's set up camp in Saudi Arabia, where a lot of it is funded, and where a lot of it comes from, do our oil deals, and fight this extremist view while looking out over the picturesque landscape off headless bodies crucified on a pole for possessing hash.


FFS.

‘There were no historical precedents whereby the whole region was governed as one entity, and therefore the Al Saud [family] reinvented the 18th century Wahhabi movement, which is a puritanical movement initially aiming to return people to the right path of Islam,’ says Madawi Al-Rasheed, visiting professor at the London School of Economics and the author of A History of Saudi Arabia.

‘This involved religious wars against those who refused the political leadership or rejected the political leadership of the Al Saud, but they were depicted as people whose Islam wasn't the right Islam and therefore they had to succumb to the authority of the Al Saud.’

‘They were able to bring this vast territory together and subject the people, under the pretext of Islamising them, which was a violent episode in the 20th century. It lasted for more than 25 years, at the end of which the Al Saud declared themselves as the rulers, and they had to continue this alliance with the Wahhabi clerics who supported the regime and also were given certain priorities in running the social and religious affairs of the country’

Related: Whatever happened to 'mission accomplished'?

The alliance between the royal family and the Wahhabi clerics continues to this day. According to Al-Rasheed, the clerics provide a politically useful religious justification for the House of Saud’s political authority. From early on in the history of Saudi Arabia, all kinds of dissent, from strikes to demonstrations, have been banned.

The discovery of oil in commercial quantities both cemented the position of the Saudi royal family within Saudi Arabia and gave it enormous influence within the Muslim world. The country began to enjoy significants oil revenues during the 1950s and ‘60s, and by 1972 average oil revenue was between $2 and $3 billion a year.

That was nothing, though, compared to the profits that would flow after the oil crisis of 1973 and 1974 and the nationalisation of the oil industry. It’s that oil wealth, argues Cockburn, that has allowed Wahhabi Islam to spread and dominate the Muslim world.

‘One of the most important trends in the Muslim world, perhaps in the world as a whole over the last 50 years, is the way in which Wahhabism has influenced and to some extent taken over mainstream Sunni Islam: the 1.4, 1.5 billion Sunni Muslims in the world,’ he says.

‘Why has it become so influential? Well, mainly Saudi money. If you wanted to build a mosque in Bangladesh or some other poor country and you need $20,000, the only place you can get it easily is from Saudi Arabia or some Saudi charity.’

‘It has also meant that relations between Sunni and Shia have got much worse because Wahhabism regards Shia as basically being non-Muslims. This wasn't true of Sunni Islam before.’

Radical Saudi Arabian elements proved useful to the west during the Cold War, as Saudi money and fighters flowed into Afghanistan to fight the Soviet Union. Osama Bin Laden was one such fighter, but the blowback during the ‘90s and 2000s was not limited solely to America.

An Al Qaeda branch on the Arabian Peninsula became active, and attacked targets in Saudi Arabia, giving the country a reason to back America’s war on terror. However, Toby Jones, associate professor of history at Rutgers University, questions how deep that commitment goes.

‘The Saudis had both a political interest in confronting terrorism and also see themselves as actively engaged in confronting and containing terrorism,’ he says. ‘I think as far as the senior members of the ruling family and the intelligence community go in Saudi Arabia, that's all true.’

‘The problem is that politically and ideologically there are also quite a few people in Saudi Arabia, both in the government and outside of it, who see themselves as having interests that are closer to global terrorism than to their own government or to the United States.’

When war broke out in Syria, Iran backed the Assad regime and the Saudis responded by supporting the opposition.

‘There is a sort of undeclared war between Saudi Arabia and Iran that is taking place in the Arab world,’ says Al-Rasheed.

‘Saudi Arabia worries about Iran expanding in the region, expanding its influence. It is already there in Iraq, it is in Syria, it is in Lebanon. And also Saudi Arabia worries about any kind of connection between Iran and Yemen through the Houthis, who are also Shia. Saudi Arabia feels that it is encircled by Shia-backed Iranian influence.’



Amazing how Saudi Arabia, which came to be, due to Islamist extremists forcing their opinion and using brutality to enforce it, is Americas biggest ally, considering that is the exact premise they have used to go to "war" with "ISIS".  Amazing that they actively appeal to the world ‘You had Saudi preachers, immensely influential, often speaking on satellite television stations financed by Saudi royals, preaching hate to Shia, preaching jihad in Syria and elsewhere. So there has always been ambivalence in Saudi policy between what they want to see at home and what they want to see abroad.’
Amazing that the "9/11 hijackers" were Saudi nationals.



So why in fcuk are they at war with everybody but Saudi Arabia, when all the apparant issues lie within that 1 country?  Everything stems from there.


When Iraq invaded Kuwait, it was because Kuwait were producing too much oil and the price was driven down.  The reason America stepped in, was because they couldn't afford Saddam Hussein to have control over the oil fields of Iraq and Kuwait, and the close proximity of the 4th largest army in the world, on the doorstep of Saudi Arabia.
The first gulf war, was 100% on the premise of protecting this Islam Extremist State called Saudi Arabia.


Forgive me if I am a little skeptical that there is a major threat going on that either comes about from us being over there, or is all about the oil fields. 
Of all the atrocities happening in the world in the last 50 years, that the only one worth fighting for, is control of oil.

yeah what you said..FFS.....WE are sticking our noses into it because these fcukwits who have left our shores to fight will bring back here the ideaology of what they witnessed and displayed fighting...in others words they are radicals, not your normal muslim...but a race of hatred installed into them. WE DONT NEED THIS IN OZ...and neither does the world


FFS

Create fear, and people will support you.

only have to look at the Lebanese who settled in Australia after their cival war...Sydney is an example and their children have followed in their fathers footsteps

A couple of questions for you:
1.  How many innocent people have we killed over there?
2.  How many people have gone to fight over there, and returned home to kill people here?  (Give you a hint, it is many, but it is not their soldiers doing it, it is ours).

how many imigrants or refugee,s have come to this country from war torn countries and them or their off spring have created gangs, who rape, kill and feed others drugs, nsw laws changed where gang members can serve 30 years jail regarding gang rape because of middle eastern activities in the suburbs.


did we ask to be bombed by radicals in bali??

EVEN the known terrorist of the past are running scarded of ISIS.

scarded = scared

I suspect the reports that Al Qaeda and ISIL had a falling out because al Qaeda think they're too radical are greatly exaggerated. That suggestion has a lot of political traction, creates a lot of fear. Who verified this information? How was it verified?

Is it not more likely that this group simply wanted to focus their energy locally, while Al Qaeda has stick with the anti-US ambitions? Seems far more logical. Am very skeptical about those reports.

wasn't Bin Laden from Saudi Arabia?

there's plenty of thoroughly decent Lebanese people here as well Megsy, don't taint a whole community based on the actions of a few

or should we judge all anglo Australians on Martin Bryant?

womble...never stated the "whole "lebenese community, just like the other ethnic groups who have settled here because of cival war, we have trouble within their youth.

and ffs Martin was  diagnosed as crimally insane, big difference to muslims  being taught radical idea's to murder and rape. silly comparence womble

http://australian-news.net/articles/view.php?id=110

The rise of Middle Eastern crime in Australia
 



Former NSW detective Tim Priest was one of the front-line cops who lead the war against crime in the drug-ridden streets of Cabramatta. Yet he found himself waging his biggest battle not against the drug gangs but against the very organisation he worked for. Eventually, he could stand it no longer and spoke out about the politics and bureaucratic bungling, chronic lack of resources and crazy policy decisions that seem endemic to the New South Wales Police Service. For this, he was labelled a 'whistleblower' and ultimately railroaded out of the force.



Parliamentary enquiries subsequently proved that Tim Priest had spoken the truth and, perhaps more shockingly, that what the newspapers reveal is merely the tip of the iceberg.

The articel below was first published in the January 2004 issue of Quadrant magazine. It is re-published here with the permission of Tim Priest.

Tim Priest teamed up with academic Richard Basham to publish a book, To Protect and to Serve. It is available at all bookstores. It is required reading for every person who is concerned about crime in New South Wales and why the police are afraid of the ethnic gangs.

Tim Priest

I believe that the rise of Middle Eastern organised crime in Sydney will have an impact on society unlike anything we have ever seen.

In the early 1980s, as a young detective I was attached to the Drug Squad at the old CIB. I remember executing a search warrant at Croydon, where we found nearly a pound of heroin. I know that now sounds very familiar; however, what set this heroin apart was that it was Beaker Valley Heroin, markedly different from any heroin I had seen. Number Four heroin from the golden triangle of South East Asia is nearly always off white, almost pure diamorphine. This heroin was almost brown.

But more remarkable were the occupants of the house. They were very recent arrivals from Lebanon, and from the moment we entered the premises, we wrestled and fought with the male occupants, were abused and spat at by the women and children, and our search took five times longer because of the impediments placed before us by the occupants, including the women hiding heroin in baby nappies and on themselves and refusing to be searched by policewomen because of religious beliefs. We had never encountered these problems before.

As was the case in those days, we arrested every adult and teenager who had hampered our search. When it came to court, they were represented by Legal Aid, of course, who claimed that these people were innocent of the minor charges of public disorder and hindering police, because they were recent arrivals from a country where people have an historical hatred towards police, and that they also had poor communications skills and that the police had not executed the warrant in a manner that was acceptable to the Muslim occupants.

The magistrate, well known to police as one who convicted fewer than one in ten offenders brought before him during his term at Burwood local court, threw the matter out, siding with the occupants and condemning the police. I remember thinking; thank heavens we don't run into many Lebanese drug dealers.

Lebanese family terrorises neighbourhood

In 1994 I was stationed at Redfern. A well known Lebanese family who lived not far from the old Redfern Police Academy were terrorising the locals with random assaults, drug dealing, robberies and violent anti-social behaviour. When some young police from Redfern told me about them, curiosity got the better of me and I asked them to show me the street they lived in.

Despite the misgivings of the young police, I eventually saw this family and the presence they had in the immediate area. As we drove away in our marked police car, a half brick bounced on the roof of the vehicle. The driver kept going.

I said, 'What are you doing, they've just hit the car with a house brick!" The young constable said, "Oh, they always do that when we drive past."

The police were either too scared or too lazy to do anything about it. The damage bill on police cars became costly and these street terrorists grew stronger and the police became purely defensive. You see, the Police Royal Commission was about to start and the police retreated inside themselves knowing that the judicial system considered them easy targets. The police did not want to get hurt or attract Internal Affairs complaints.

Call me stupid, call me a dinosaur, but I made sure that day that at least one person in the group that threw the brick was arrested. I began by approaching the group just as that magistrate had lectured me and the other police involved in the Croydon search warrant. I simply asked who threw the brick. I was greeted with abuse and threats. I then reverted to the old ways of policing. I grabbed the nearest male and convinced him that it was he who had thrown the brick. His brave mates did nothing. By the time we arrived at the police station, this young fool had become compliant, apologetic and so afraid that he kept crying. You may not agree with what I did, but I paraded this goose around the police station for all the young police to see what they had become frightened of.

For some months after that, police routinely rounded up the family whenever it was warranted. However, some years later, with a change of Police Commander and the advent of duty officers under Peter Ryan, the family got back on top and within months had murdered a young Australian man who had wandered into their area drunk. They had set up a caravan where they sold drugs twenty four hours a day. They tied up half the police station with Internal Affairs complaints ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous, but under Peter Ryan, these complaints were always treated seriously.

In effect, this family had taken control of Redfern. Senior police did their best to limit police action against them, fearing an avalanche of IA complaints that would count against the Commander at Peter Ryan's next Op Crime Review.

I hope the examples I have just used don't give the impression that I am a racist or a bully. The point I want to make from the start is that policing has never been rocket science. It is about human dynamics, street psychology, experience, a little bit of theatre and a substantial quantity of common sense. Sure, forensics and the advances of DNA, rapid fingerprint identification and electronic eavesdropping have taken policing to a new level of sophistication, but ultimately, when an offender is identified by whatever means, scientific or otherwise, it all comes down to the interaction between the investigator and the offender during the arrest and interview process. Violent and abusive offenders do not respect the law or those who enforce it. But they do respect the old style cop who doesn't take a backward step and can't be intimidated. When they encounter cops like that, they fold quickly there is rarely much behind the veneer of bravado.

In 1996 with the arrival of Peter Ryan, and the continued public humiliation of the New South Wales Police through the Wood Royal Commission, a chain of events began that have affected the police so deeply and so completely that, as far as ensuring community safety is concerned, I fear it will take at least a generation to regain the lost ground.

The rise of Middle Eastern crime groups in NSW

It was about 1995 to 1996 that the emergence of Middle Eastern crime groups was first observed in New South Wales. Before then they had been largely known for individual acts of anti social behaviour and loose family structures involved in heroin importation and supply as well as motor vehicle theft and conversion. The one crime that did appear organised before this period was insurance fraud, usually motor vehicle accidents and arson. Because these crimes were largely victimless, they were dealt with by insurance companies and police involvement was limited. But from these insurance scams, a generation of young criminals emerged to, become engaged in more sophisticated crimes, such as extortion, armed robbery, organised narcotics importation and supply, gun running, organised factory and warehouse break ins, car theft and conversion on a massive scale including the exporting of stolen luxury vehicles to Lebanon and other Middle Eastern countries.

As the police began to gather and act on intelligence on these emerging Middle Eastern gangs the first of the series of events took place. The New South Wales Police was restructured under Peter Ryan. Crime Intelligence, the eyes and ears of all police forces throughout the world, was dismantled overnight and a British style intelligence unit was created. The formation of this unit and its factions has been best described by Dr Richard Basham a library stocking outdated books. The new Crime Intelligence and Information Section became completely reactive. It received crime intelligence from the field and stored it. Almost no relevant intelligence was ever dispensed to operational police from 1997 until I left in 2002. It was a disgrace.

One of the fundamental problems that arose out of the new intelligence structure was that it no longer had a field capacity or a target development capacity. With the old BCI there were field teams that were assigned to look into emerging trends. Vietnamese, Romanian and Hong Kong Chinese groups were all targeted after intelligence grew on their activities. When the alarm bells went off over growing intelligence concerns about a new or current crime group, covert operations were mounted.

Lebanese gangs intimidate police

When the Middle Eastern crime groups emerged in the mid to late 1990s no alarms were set off. The Crime Intelligence unit was asleep. I know personally that operational police in south west Sydney compiled enormous amounts of good intelligence on the formation of Lebanese groups such as the Telopea Street Boys and others in the Campsie, Lakemba, Fairfield and Punchbowl areas. The inactivity could not have been because the intelligence reports weren't interesting, because I have read many of them and from a policing perspective they were damning. Many of the offenders that you now see in major criminal trials or serving lengthy sentences in prison were identified back then.

But even more frustrating for operational police were the activities of this ethnic crime group, activities that set it apart from almost all others bar the Cabramatta 5T. The Lebanese groups were ruthless, extremely violent, and they intimidated not only innocent witnesses, but even the police that attempted to arrest them.

As these crime groups encountered less resistance in terms of police operations and enforcement, their power grew not only within their own communities, but also all around Sydney except in Cabramatta, where their fear of the South East Asian crime groups limited their forays. But the rest of Sydney became easy pickings.

The second in the series of events began to take shape with Peter Ryan's executive leadership team. Under Ryan's nose they began to carve up the New South Wales Police and form little kingdoms where a senior police officer ruled almost untouched by outside influence. They then appointed their own commanders in the police stations. Almost all of them had little or no street experience; but they in turn brought along their friends as duty officers, similarly inexperienced. Some of the experience these police counted on their resumes included stints at Human Resources, the Academy, the Police Band in one case, the various cubby holes in Police Headquarters, almost no operational policing experience yet they were tasked to lead. Never has the expression "the blind leading the blind" been more appropriate.

The impact that this leadership team had on day today operational policing was disastrous. In many of the key areas that were experiencing rapid rises in Middle Eastern crime, these new leaders became more concerned with relations between the police and ethnic minorities than with emerging violent crime. The power and influence of the local religious and minority leaders cannot be overstated. Police began to use selective law enforcement. They selected targets that were unlikely to use their ethnic background and cultural beliefs to hinder police investigations or arrests. It was mostly Anglo Saxons and Asians that were the targets, because they were under represented by religious leaders and the media. They were soft targets.

An example of the confrontations police nearly always experienced in Muslim-dominated areas when confronting even the most minor of crimes is an incident that occurred in 2001 in Auburn. Two uniformed officers stopped a motor vehicle containing three well known male offenders of Middle Eastern origin, on credible information via the police radio that indicated that the occupants of the vehicle had been involved in a series of break-and-enters. What occurred during the next few hours can only he described as frightening.

When searching the vehicle and finding stolen property from the break-and-enter, the police were physically threatened by the three occupants of the car, including references to tracking down where the officers lived, killing them and "****g your girlfriends". The two officers were intimidated to the point of retreating to their police car and calling for urgent assistance.

When police back up arrived, the three occupants called their associates via their mobile phones, which incidentally is the Middle Eastern radio network used to communicate amongst gangs. Within minutes as many as twenty associates arrived as well as another forty or so from the street where they had been stopped. As further police cars arrived, the Middle Eastern males became even more aggressive, throwing punches at police, pushing police over onto the ground, threatening them with violence and damaging police vehicles.

When the duty officer arrived, he immediately ordered all police back into their vehicles and they retreated from the scene. The stolen property was not recovered. No offender was arrested for assaulting police or damaging police vehicles.

But the humiliation did not end there. The group of Middle Eastern males then drove to the police station, where they intimidated the station staff, damaged property and virtually held a suburban police station hostage. The police were powerless. The duty officer ordered police not to confront the offenders but to call for back up from nearby stations. Eventually the offenders left of their own volition. No action was taken against them.

In the minds of the local population, the police were cowards and the message was, Lebs rule the streets. For a number of days, nothing was done to rectify this total breakdown of law and order. To the senior police in the area, it was more important to give the impression that local ethnic relations were never better. It was also important to Peter Ryan that no bad news stories appeared that may have given the impression that crime in any area was out of control. Had these hoodlums been arrested they would have filed IA complaints immediately via their Legal Aid lawyers and community leaders. To senior police, this was a cause for concern at the next Op Crime Review.

So the incident was covered up until a few local veteran detectives found out about it and decided to act. They went quietly to the addresses of the three main offenders early one morning and took them away with a minimum of fuss and charged them. Some order was restored, but not nearly enough.

By avoiding confrontations with these thugs, the police gave away the streets in many of these areas in south-western Sydney. By putting in place inexperienced senior police who had never copped the odd punch in the mouth or broken nose in the line of duty, the police force hung the community and the local police out to dry. Most of these duty officers had retreated to non-operational areas early in their careers because they couldn't stomach the risks of front line policing. Yet they put their hands up to take vital operational roles because the positions are highly paid duty officers receive about $30,000 to $40,000 a year more than a detective sergeant, which is ludicrous.

When I say that this type of policing was condoned and encouraged across wide areas of New South Wales, I am not exaggerating. The problems in south-western Sydney are a direct result of covering up criminality because it went against the script that Peter Ryan and his executive had continually pushed in the media, day after day after day - that crime was on the decrease and Peter Ryan was the world's best police commissioner.

In hundreds upon hundreds of incidents police have backed down to Middle Eastern thugs and taken no action and allowed incidents to go unpunished. Again I stress the unbelievable influence that local politicians and religious leaders played in covering up the real state of play in the south-west.

Spread of criminal gangs aided by incompetent police leadership

The third event was the reforming of Criminal Investigations into a centrally-controlled body called Crime Agencies. All the specialist crime squads were done away with: Arson, Armed Robbery, Drugs, Organised Crime, Special Breaking, Consorting, Vice, Gaming, Motor Vehicle Theft were wrapped up into one size fits all. Ryan once boasted that by the time he finished retraining the New South Wales Police, constables could investigate a traffic accident in the morning and a homicide in the afternoon, a statement that summed up his Alice-in-Wonderland policing theories. All the expertise and experience evaporated overnight.

It was as if the public hospitals had suddenly lost every surgeon and had GPs perform major surgery. No matter how bright and dedicated these GPs were, they would simply not have the expertise, the training and the experience to take over. It would be a disaster. Well, that is what happened to criminal investigation in this state. Crime Agencies was an unmitigated disaster. Yet those who designed and ran this farce have gone on to highly paid government jobs.

The final straw for the New South Wales Police was the OCR 0p Crime Review, which Peter Ryan and his executive team came up with. It was loosely based on the groundbreaking Compstat program of the New York Police Department, the brainchild of Commissioner William Bratton. The difference between Ryan's OCR and the NYPD Compstat was that the NYPD model covered everything on the criminal waterfront. The Ryan-inspired OCR had just six crimes. And those six included domestic violence, random breath testing, theft, robbery, assaults and motor vehicle theft - no drugs, organised crime, firearms, shootings, attempted murders or homicides. The crimes that instil fear into the average citizen were ignored, and with plenty of innovative answers as to why. The OCR focused police attention on a limited number of crimes and allowed far more serious and deadly crimes to get out of control.

So with a police force on the verge of bankruptcy, the Middle Eastern crime problem was an explosion waiting to go off. I had observed the beginnings of Asian organised crime whilst at the Drug Squad and later at the National Crime Authority where I worked on two task forces, one of which was on Chinese organised crime.

When I look back on the influence of Chinese organised crime in Australia, I see a gradual but sustained trend, not one of high peaks in terms of activity or incidents, but one of a well planned criminal enterprise that attracts little attention. It's there but you can't always see it.

It probably took twenty years for the Chinese to become a dominant force in crime in this city. But Middle Eastern crime has taken less than ten years. So pervasive is their influence on organised crime that rival ethnic groups, with the exception of the Asian gangs, have been squeezed out or made extinct. The only other crime group to have survived intact are the bikies, although the bikies these days have legitimised many of their operations and now make as much money from legal means as they do illegally. In many ways they have adopted US Mafia methods of legitimate businesses shrouding their illegal operations.

With no organised crime function, no gang unit except for the South-East Asian Strike Force, the New South Wales Police turned against every convention known to Western policing in dealing with organised crime groups. In effect the Lebanese crime gangs were handed the keys to Sydney.

Extortion and attacks on Australians

The most influential of the Middle Eastern crime groups are the Muslim males of Telopea Street, Bankstown, known as the Telopea Street Boys. They and their associates have been involved in numerous murders over the past five years, many of them unprovoked fatal attacks on young Australian men for no other reason than that they are "Skips", as they call Australians.

They have been involved in all manner of crime on a scale we have never seen before. Ram-raids on expensive stores in the city are epidemic. The theft of expensive motor vehicles known as car-jacking is increasing at an alarming rate. This crime involves gangs finding a luxury motor vehicle parked outside a restaurant or hotel and watching until the occupants return to drive home. The car is followed, the victims assaulted at gunpoint, and the vehicle stolen. The vehicles are always around or above the $ 100,000 mark and are believed to be taken to warehouses before being shipped interstate or to the Middle East.

Extortion on inner city nightclubs is largely unreported because of the dire consequences of owners reporting these incidents to police. When I worked at City Central Detectives just before I retired, I was involved in the initial investigation of one brave nightclub owner in the inner city who did report this crime. The Lebanese criminals were arrested after a sting operation. However, I believe that after many violent threats the owner sold up and now lives inter-state. He once had a thriving business that for a nightclub ran a reputable service, keeping out drugs, maintaining safety for patrons and co-operating with the police.

The tactics used by the gang were simple. A large number of Middle Eastern males would enter the club, upwards of twenty at a time. They would outnumber the security staff and begin assaulting Australian male patrons, sometimes stabbing them. The incident would be over in minutes and the gang members would be long gone before police arrived. A few days later, senior members of the gang, well dressed and business-like, would approach the club owners and offer to provide protection from similar incidents for around $2000 to $3000 a week. Many of the owners paid up and considered it a necessary expense in keeping their business viable. If they didn't pay up, or contacted the police, the gangs would wait some weeks, even months, before returning to the nightclub and extracting a terrible revenge on the owners, who would pay up or leave.

There is compelling intelligence that in one well-known entertainment precinct in the city, nearly all the bars, nightclubs and hotels pay protection money to Middle Eastern crime gangs.

What sets the Middle Eastern gangs apart from all other gangs is their propensity to use violence at any time and for any reason. I thought I would never see the level and type of violence that I saw with the South-East Asian gangs in Cabramatta, particularly the 5T, the Four Aces and Madonna's Mob, which were a breakaway from the old 5T. But the violence, although horrific, was almost always local, that is within the Cabramatta area and almost always against fellow Asians. As a result of that locally based violent crime it was relatively easy to identify the culprits and break them up once we were given the resources after the police revolt of 1999-2000.

Racial attacks against young Australians

The Middle Eastern cycle of violence is not local. It can occur on the central coast, around Cronulla, Bondi, Darling Harbour, Five Dock, Redfern, Paddington, anywhere in Sydney. Unlike their Vietnamese counterparts, they roam the city and are not confined to either Cabramatta or Chinatown. And even more alarming is that the violence is directed mainly against young Australian men and women. There is a clear and definite link between violent attacks on our young men and women being racial as well as criminal. Quite often when taking statements from young men attacked by groups of Lebanese males around Darling Harbour, a common theme has been the racially motivated violence against the victims simply because they are Australian.

I wonder whether the inventors of the racial hatred laws introduced during the golden years of multiculturalism ever took into account that we, the silent majority, would be the target of racial violence and hatred. I don't remember any charges being laid in conjunction with the gang rapes of south-western Sydney in 2001, where race was clearly an issue and race was used to humiliate the victims. But then, unbelievably, a publicly funded document produced by the Anti Discrimination Board called "The Race for Headlines" was circulated, and it sought not only to cover up race as a motive for the rapes, but to criticise any accurate media reporting on this matter as racially biased. It worries many operational police that organisations like the Anti-Discrimination Board, the Privacy Council and the Civil Liberties Council have become unaccountable and push agendas that don't represent the values that this great country was built on.

The extent to which Middle Eastern crime gangs have moved into the drug market is breathtaking. They are now the main suppliers of cocaine in this city and are now developing markets in south eastern Queensland and Victoria. They are major suppliers of heroin in and around the inner city, south-western Sydney and western Sydney.

Many of you would have heard of the horrific problems in France with the outbreak of unprecedented crimes amongst an estimated five million Muslim immigrants. Middle Eastern males now make up 45,000 of the 90,000 inmates in French prisons. There are no-go areas in Paris for police and citizens alike. The rule of law has broken down so badly that when police went to one of these areas recently to round up three Islamic terrorists, they went in armoured vehicles, with heavy weaponry and over 1000 armed officers, just to arrest a few suspects. Why did it need such numbers? Because the threat of terrorist reprisal was minimal compared to the anticipated revolt by thousands of Middle Eastern and North African residents who have no respect for the rule of law in France and consider intrusions by police and authority a declaration of war.

The problems in Paris in Muslim communities are being replicated here in Sydney at an alarming rate. Paris has seen an explosion of rapes committed by Middle Eastern males on French women in the past fifteen years. The rapes are almost identical to those in Sydney. They are not only committed for sexual gratification but also with deep racial undertones along with threats of violence and retribution. What is more alarming is the identical reaction by some sections of the media and criminologists in France of downplaying the significance of race as an issue and even ganging up on those people who try to draw attention to the widening gulf between Middle Eastern youth and the rest of French society.

That is what we are seeing here. The usual suspects come out of their institutions and libraries to downplay and even cover up the growing problem of Middle Eastern crime. Why? My opinion, for what it's worth is that these same social engineers have attempted to redefine our society. They have experimented with all manner of institutions, from prisons to mental institutions and recently to policing.

Some of the problems we now see with policing are the result of Peter Ryan's dream of restructuring and retraining police. The Police Academy was changed from a police training college into a university teaching social sciences and very little else. Constantly I would see young police emerge from the academy with a view that as police officers they were counsellors, psychologists, marriage guidance experts, social workers and advocates for social change. but with almost no skills in street policing. Their training had placed not only them in danger, but also their workmates and the community.

Policing is about enforcing the rule of law. It has never been about analysing every offender for the root causes of crime. That is not our job. The police enforce the law and protect the community regardless of race, colour or religion. What we have seen in south-west Sydney is ethnic communities being policed selectively. The implications for this are frightening when you look at Paris. They had selective policing of a particular community, which as a result is now out of control.

In February 2001 when I appeared before the Cabramatta inquiry, I gave evidence which at the time was controversial and attracted the usual claque of ratbags and lunatics from the ABC and their associates at the Sydney Morning Herald as well as that fruit loop Mike Carton from 2UE. I said that this city is going to be torn apart by gang warfare the likes of which we have never seen before. In 2003 I was finally proven right, but I take no comfort from that. However, the criticism I received was unprecedented. I was a nutter, a liar, a racist, a disgruntled detective - but I was right.

Ethnic gangs aided and protected by multicultural industry

The critics still refuse to concede that we have a problem. They are still clinging to the multicultural theme. To highlight the problems with Middle Eastern communities in this city is to threaten to tear down the multicultural facade.

The amount of money spent on the multicultural industry beggars belief. It is a lucrative and sustainable position for many. Governments pay huge money to anything that bears the word multicultural. Indeed the police department, like other government departments, spends vast amounts on multicultural issues, multicultural jobs, multicultural consultancies, education packages, legal advice, public relations and the rest. Having expended large amounts of money on multiculturalism, they are hardly likely to criticise it. Those that feed off multiculturalism are not likely to question it.

When I gave evidence to the Cabramatta inquiry, I risked my career and my safety in coming forward. I did it because I had sworn an oath to protect the community I served. That community was Cabramatta. Cabramatta is made up almost entirely of residents born outside this country, mostly South East Asians, and their children. But when I went forward and exposed the shame of Cabramatta, the residents were not Asians in my eyes, but Australians no matter where they came from. It was my duty to speak up for them and to protect them. Race was never an issue. I have received many awards in my police career but the ones I hold dearest are those I received from the Cabramatta community.

One old man who had spent seven years in refugee camps in South East Asia before coming to Australia said the day he landed in Australia was like dying and coming to heaven. Cabramatta was a community of ordinary people like that old man, who recognised the problems of drugs and organised crime in their community and spoke up and agitated for change. It was a slightly built Vietnamese man named Thung Ngo who led the charge on behalf of a community that had had enough of crime and forced a parliamentary inquiry into Cabramatta which ultimately saved their community from destruction. Not once during that inquiry did I hear any member of the Cabramatta community - apart from the Anglo Saxon local member - complain that they were being racially discriminated against because of the inquiry or its aftermath. They wanted change; they wanted a safe law-abiding community. It was my duty to do everything I could to honour my pledge to protect and to serve.

But I have not heard anything like that from the Middle Eastern community. Initially the gang rapes were the fault of Australian culture, according to one religious leader in the south west. I note that he has now softened his stance and is calling for change among Middle Eastern youth. But they are just words; there seem to be no Thung Ngos among them.

What is it that draws such defence for this community from certain sections of the media? Why didn't they join in to defend the Asian community during the fallout from the Cabramatta inquiry? And where are these apologists when it comes to the plight of our first Australians, our indigenous peoples? Their cause is not trendy enough, not global like the refugee or Islamic issues. Yet one of the most depressing sights that has confronted me as a policeman is the shame of Redfern. I first saw Everleigh Street some twenty two years ago, and nothing has changed since. The atmosphere of sheer hopelessness and desperation still hangs around the neck of every young Aborigine who lives in those ghettos, yet they hardly ever rate a mention.

National threat

The Middle Eastern crime groups and their associates number in the thousands, not the hundreds as the government and senior police would have you believe. It is the biggest crime problem we have ever faced, and it is growing.

Hardly a day goes past without some violent crime involving a "male of Middle Eastern appearance", though I see lately that description is watered down now to include "and/or Mediterranean appearance". To an operational policeman, there is a noticeable difference between an Italian and a Lebanese male.

That these groups of males can roam a city and assault, rob and intimidate at will can no longer be denied or excused. You need only to look at Paris and other European countries that have had mass immigration from Middle Eastern countries to see the sort of problems we can expect in years to come. My prediction is that within ten years, Middle Eastern crime groups will spread rapidly across Australia as they seek to expand their enterprises. There will be no go areas in south western Sydney, just like Paris.

Only recently I have seen quotes from senior police and retired police who claim that race is not the issue in organised crime. Those statements are stupid and dangerous. Organised crime groups with the exception of the bikies are almost always ethnically based - any experienced detective will tell you that. The days of Anglo Saxon gangs are almost gone, with the exception of one or two local beach gangs.

I also predict that there will be a dramatic rise in gang shootings as rival gangs compete for turf and business. This will be done with almost complete disregard for police attention, as they are well aware that the New South Wales Police has to be rebuilt from the ground up. We have seen in the past three years the phenomenon of drive-by shootings, Los Angeles style. Not only are the increasing incidents a major cause of concern, but also the use of automatic weapons that spray hundreds of rounds at their targets. This is virtually unprecedented in this country.

In many ways, what we are seeing is the copying of Los Angeles gangs: the Crips, the Bloods and others. The motor vehicles, the music, the dress codes, the haircuts, the weaponry and the attitudes towards authority are almost identical. These gangs in Los Angeles have been around for nearly thirty years and a culture has grown around them. The culture surrounding the Middle Eastern gangs is still in its infancy but the transition is not far away.

When William Bratton, the most innovative police commissioner of modern times, took over as Los Angeles Police Chief recently, he declared the gang problems there a national security problem, so serious that it was beyond the resources of the state of California. There is a lesson for us there, but we have to learn quickly, or this problem will overtake us.

The blame for the rise of the gangs in Los Angeles is being spread around - politicians who refused to acknowledge that it was more than just an ethnic brotherhood searching for their roots; police inaction because of political constraints as well as incompetence; the civil liberties movement particularly among the California superior courts that refused for decades to use lengthy sentences as a deterrent to ethnic based crime on the basis that it discriminated against minority groups. Whoever is to blame is now irrelevant, but they have left a terrible legacy for the young generations of citizens of Los Angeles who have to run the gauntlet of drug-crazed gangsters in the suburbs engaging in deadly shoot outs and drive-bys nearly every day.

The similarities between the situation here, with the denial by the government of the extent and the implications of Middle Eastern crime, and the early situation in Los Angeles is frightening. What we saw with Cabramatta was the covering up of a major problem by this government, who only acted when the game was up. It's all about denial. If they can get away with covering up it saves them the worry of making hard decisions and spending money on fixing problems that have been allowed to fester for years. The rail system that Michael Costa now has to fix is yet another example.

There is no investment in the future. It is about looking good day by day. The Peter Ryan-style policing of day to day media spin is still present. No one seems to have the courage to say that this is a problem that we need to fix before it gets worse. The time when the Middle Eastern problem really takes root in this city, the point from which there is no return, just like Los Angeles, is but a few years away. The leaders of our government probably hope this will be another government's fault and that they won't be around to see their legacy. Maybe we should all buy a property in southern New Zealand.

If the biggest threat to our society is not addressed honestly and effectively within the next two or three years it will take drastic action and enormous resources to bring it under control - if that is even possible. The action we can take now and the resources needed are a fraction of what it may cost in the future. The potential cost in human terms is unimaginable.

There is also the serious possibility that some of these Middle Eastern youth that are engaged in organised crime and have no regard for our values and way of life may go a step further and engage in terrorist acts against Australia. The ingredients are there already. It is but a small step from urban terrorism to religious and political terrorism, as we have seen with groups such as the IRA, where organised crime often became interwoven with terrorism.

I do not want to paint a picture of gloom, but as a policeman I have seen the destruction that gangs can wreak on innocent citizens who only want to live their lives in peace. I just hope we can trust the people in government and the police to ensure that we don't lose the values and the rights we have received from past generations.

It is fitting that one day after Remembrance Day, when we look to what was handed to us by the Second World War generation, probably the most extraordinary generation of Australians in our short history, we should ask ourselves: are we going to be remembered for handing a similar legacy to our children and grandchildren, or are we going to be remembered as the generation that did nothing about the scourge of gang violence and simply passed it on to them?

Oct 29, 2014 -- 5:46AM, megsy wrote:

womble...never stated the "whole "lebenese community, just like the other ethnic groups who have settled here because of cival war, we have trouble within their youth.

Like the Europeans that came here?

grow up BJT.... THE TOPIC WAS MIDDLE EASTERN....shakes head

Did a lebo shag your mrs megsy?

rhino...geez mate another....read my posts...only examples given, lebonese was the example. I could name a few other ethnic groups, but l named the lebonese ....what has Europeans got to do with middle eastern?

that post I copied pasted from an article I will leave it at that...fact !!!

im off the subject now.....enjoy the thread, its kinda getting off the track.

You are posting some strange things mate. Muslims taught to rape and kill? How do you think these comments come across?

Oct 29, 2014 -- 8:27AM, megsy wrote:

grow up BJT.... THE TOPIC WAS MIDDLE EASTERN....shakes head

No.  Read what I quoted from you.  "Just like the other ethnic groups who have settled here".

Europeans, if you didn't know, were first to settle here, and were no different than anybody else.  They arrived, slaughtered, all for their own interests.  Did they not?  The locals were still having their children stolen recently, and fair to suggest they haven't thrived as a people since European settlement.

Are you under the illusion that Coalition forces aren't raping and slaughtering innocent people in the middle east?

You act like "your people"'s siht don't stink.

ffs...read the thread properly before  you attempt to direct the topic ...now European.....



your reply to my post to womble


BJT







    BJT   

27 Oct 14 02:09 
Joined:


  30 Oct 04 
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Oct 24, 2014 -- 5:43AM, megsy wrote:


the moderates will win?....womble, the ISIS want to rule the world, they aint normal,coalition forces are

and now you want to add Europeans into...your words, not mine....I suggest you read slllloooowwwwlllllyyyyyy


and wait a minute BJT...my people?...ffs who the fcuk are you



Europeans have been a great group of people who have added to this society, actually help build Australia what it is today. migrated from the late 40's so don't try make me be the fool sucked into your little childish games

megsy   

Joined:


  01 Aug 11 
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how many imigrants or refugee,s have come to this country from war torn countries and them or their off spring have created gangs, who rape, kill and feed others drugs, nsw laws changed where gang members can serve 30 years jail regarding gang rape because of middle eastern activities in the suburbs.



SO TELL ME WHERE I SAID EUROPEANS ASREWIPE ???

megsy   






  24 Oct 14 05:43 
Joined:


  01 Aug 11 
    | Topic/replies: 4,857  | Blogger: megsy's blog   



the moderates will win?....womble, the ISIS want to rule the world, they aint normal,coalition forces are  standing up for freedom and peace in their own countries. ban these lunatics from re entering their mainly host country that gave them a new start in life only to attempt a  demand we convert to their ways....we don't need these idiots coming back home with these skills they have become accustom to, {beheadings) slaughtering woman and children, rape )and preach this.



therhino




 


     therhino   






  29 Oct 14 07:49 
Joined:


  12 Jul 10 
    | Topic/replies: 10,403  | Blogger: therhino's blog   



You are posting some strange things mate. Muslims taught to rape and kill? How do you think these comments come across?


Im sorry you feel I said  these words, please read again above what I wrote. and yes its happening overseas right now.

sorry fella's im moving on from this thread....talk amongst yourselfs...now its gone to Europe, next Disney land will be offended

You grouped all ethnic groups who have settled here together.  Europeans are the main ones and the first, who rocked up killing anything in their way, to claim what they felt was rightfully theirs.  You just don't like to admit that this country was formed through this.

Not sure why you feel the need to call me names though because I questioned something you said.  Can't you let facts dictate your arguments, or do they just not support your opinion?

We are joined up with the biggest terrorists in the world.  We go over there and rape and slaughter innocent people, all in the name of controlling their resources and trying to force our political views onto them.

If you don't think like us, we will invade you and take your ****, because unless you think like us, you won't trade with us and we can't make money.  Yet when people fight back, they are the worst people in the world.

Meanwhile, we ally up with Saudi Arabia, who are an Islamic Extreme state, which is how it was formed, and how it remains.  Preaching global jihad, performing beheadings for public entertainment, and funding any who will prevent opposing views from encircling their little world.  We provide the muscle for that, and claim we are fighting for human rights.

It is ridiculous.

And the best argument you can come up with is to try and derail anything with talks of disneyland and personal abuse?


Run away megsy.  Run away.....

Are you under the illusion that Coalition forces aren't raping and slaughtering innocent people in the middle east?


OH FFS

BJT....what fcukin drugs are you on?....read my posts slllloooowwwlyyyy, again....we are talking about middle eastern ...not European....I repeat not European.


and I state again...read slowly


megsy   






  24 Oct 14 05:43 
Joined:


  01 Aug 11 
    | Topic/replies: 4,859  | Blogger: megsy's blog   



the moderates will win?....womble, the ISIS want to rule the world, they aint normal,coalition forces are  standing up for freedom and peace in their own countries. ban these lunatics from re entering their mainly host country that gave them a new start in life only to attempt a  demand we convert to their ways....we don't need these idiots coming back home with these skills they have become accustom to, {beheadings) slaughtering woman and children, rape )and preach this.


now to things I put you you dcikhead...where do I say European??...( or are you attempting to show your studying to be an idiot

most Europe is part of the colalition !!!

also...in my above post an example I will put to you and NO they aint European ffs.
radical muslims travelled to Syria, they were part of beheadings and what do they do?....take pictures and be so very proud of their 3 young sons holding up the servered heads of Syrian soldiers......but hey you deny this wont affect people coming back to Australia....like fcuk it wont !!!


so seeing your the expert, tell me sunshine, what do we do with these imaginary children of radicals you say wont do harm back in Australia?


lastly...why the fcuk am I getting wrapped up in your demented argument, your the same BJT who claims the USA blew up there own world trade centre ....now you run along asrewipe...ive now had a gut full of your dribble.

Oct 29, 2014 -- 11:13AM, logroller wrote:

Are you under the illusion that Coalition forces aren't raping and slaughtering innocent people in the middle east?OH FFS

A US soldier charged with raping an Iraqi girl last March and helping kill her and three other members of her family pleaded guilty to the charges and agreed to testify against four other soldiers involved in the crimes. Spc. James Barker, 23, agreed to the plea in order to avoid the death penalty, according to his civilian lawyer, David Sheldon. He gave a detailed confession Wednesday before a court martial at Fort Campbell, Kentucky.
Three other soldiers also could face the death penalty in the case. Sgt. Paul Cortez, Pfc. Jesse Spielman and Pfc. Bryan Howard have been charged with capital murder and rape and face court martial at Fort Campbell. Former Pfc. Steven Green, 21, was discharged from the military two months after the murders. He has been arrested and faces 17 counts of rape, murder and obstruction of justice in federal district court in Paducah, Kentucky. Another soldier, Sgt. Anthony Yribe, is charged with dereliction of duty and making a false statement for allegedly failing to report the attack, although he did not participate in it.
The victim of the rape and murder was Abeer Qassim Hamza Janabi, described by local Iraqi officials in the town of Mahmudiya as 14 years old. Killed along with her were her father, Qassim Hamza Janabi, her mother, Fikhriya Taha Muhsen, and her five-year-old sister, Hadeel Qassim Hamza Janabi.
According to the accounts of this horrific crime provided by Army investigators, Steven Green shot to death the father, mother and younger sister while Cortez and Barker were raping the teenager. Green then raped the young girl again, shot her to death and set her body on fire. Spielman and Howard stood guard outside the home, then helped cover up the crime.
The crime was premeditated, with as much as a week of advance discussion among the soldiers, all members of the same squad in the 502nd Infantry Regiment of the 101st Airborne Division, an elite military formation. The unit was stationed in a region just south of Baghdad which has been dubbed the “triangle of death” because of the exceptionally violent character of the combat between US occupation forces and Sunni insurgents. The area is of mixed Sunni and Shiite population.
Abeer Janabi had drawn the attention of the soldiers because she had to pass through one of their checkpoints regularly, and her home was only 650 feet from their post. She reportedly had told her mother that she was afraid and the Janabis had discussed sending her to a relative’s home for safety. One relative told the Los Angeles Times that the US squad had carried out several searches of the family home, allegedly looking for insurgents but actually targeting the young girl.
On the day of the rape and murders, the soldiers involved had been drinking heavily and discussed the assault, planning it out as they would any other operation. They dressed in black and wore masks. After the killings, they set the house on fire and attributed the attack to insurgents.

Maybe you should read slowly megsy.  You did say middle east.  You also said however, all ethnic groups that come to our country.  We were that ethnic group that came to this country and killed everything to demand our own way of life.

Amazing you can even find the keys to type tbh.

one added thing..you state 'WE' the coalition are raping and killing woman and children and being part of beheadings.

tell me how many has America, Australia, Canada, Germany, france, new Zealand, spain, Italy, etc etc being part of the coalition beheaded, killed raped?


you do claim all the coalition is involved in these autrocities.


see I know exactly who you meant ( arab nations) as you knew very well I was speaking about the radicals returning back home to Australia, clearly you knew they wernt Europeans I was writing about, but hey you like to sound good beating your punie chest being joe the goose.

Oct 29, 2014 -- 5:49AM, megsy wrote:

and ffs Martin was

FFS. Not typing it again... Have a good night megsy. I was sending peace.

Maybe you should read slowly megsy.  You did say middle east.  You also said however, all ethnic groups that come to our country



show me where I said all ethnic groups??

cheers rhino

No, you were separating us as if we are any different, when it is the whole premise of how our country came about, and how we as a people started out.

Suggesting our siht don't stink because when we do it to others it is ok and normal, but when others do it, they need to be bombed, by us.  It is ridiculous.

see, you assume...never assume.

assume doesn't  ='áll'

You don't even really know what you are arguing anymore do you?  When you have trouble keeping up with yourself, it is a little too much for me to expect you could keep up with anybody else.

I don't read cut and pasted articles, especially ones from The Australian - they annoy me.  I come here to read people's opinions not Rupert's or other media people driving an agenda.  AFL is the worst in doing it imo

Either way - ALL ethnic groups, despite their backgrounds have problem children amongst them - no group is exempt from that and you're dreaming if you think they are. So why isolate one in the Lebanese?

I don't know what im talking about ??..ffs

from the man whose on record claiming USA destroyed its own world trade centre.

im still waiting where ALL ethnics was typed.

are you one of these radicals yourself?...you seem to defend them
maybe your belief America is the blame for everything that isis are actually American soldiers


and exactly what im talking about is aired this morning. and NO its not recent since we joined the coalition this year.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/25380378/muslim-kids-radicalised-in-shocking-new-video/

womble...you also have selected reading?...I replied to you saying ï used the Lebanese as an example and again you jump at me saying  So why isolate one in the Lebanese"


just like your mate...im suppose to have said ALL"Yet he cant show where it was written.


as usual the ones who are a minority twist words to fight their argument.

I thrive on it, but I respect your opinion womble as I have always in the past, where we have continually agreed to disagree

but the class fool don't get my respect with his utter twisted writings to suit its purpose

on AFL...another ive justled with in the past and also agree to disagree but with respect. whether he copy and pastes articals it doesn't bother me, no ones making anyone read them. its up to the individual.

I have a friend who is Lesbianese. She's Ok.

How she have a kebaby ?

Oct 29, 2014 -- 5:46AM, megsy wrote:

womble...never stated the "whole "lebenese community, just like the other ethnic groups who have settled here because of cival war, we have trouble within their youth.

.....

I know a few Lesbianese too......

Baba Ghanoush is fecking awesome. Would  be a great anme for a rachorse too. If ever I get one, that's what I'm calling it.

All good Megsy, world would be boring if we all thought the same way - would be nice if everyone just got on though

womble... my apology,  I stated the Lebanese in general as an example where I should have stated the Lebanese muslims.

Malcolm Fraser crazily instituted a come-one, come-all admissions policy for those claiming to be refugees from the Lebanon conflicts of the 80s. We were there for flooded with Lebanese muslims who fought in their cival war.

Replicating the European experience that the second generation had more trouble than the first, it was the sons of some of these immigrants who figured heavily in anti-social activities.


most, well nearly all lebanese people are peace abiding people.

but I would dearly love to some lesbianese action

All good Megsy, like I said - good and bad in every lot

We need more Lesbianese imo