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This government is a disgrace

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By:
AFL
When: 25 Sep 13 00:44
Shorten is the way to go for sure. The media push for Albo confirms this.

Albo might be able to be a good scrapper and the Labor Party version of Abbott in terms of attacking the Liberal Party.

But it would be a mistake to go down that path, because Murdoch and the MSM will crucify him and label him as obstructionist and how the nation is crying out for a more tempered debate in politics and then attack him and Labor for doing the same thing they(Murdoch) allowed Abbott to do.

This is Abbott's and Murdoch's agenda to turn the debate from the attack dog style of Abbott pre - election to the sudden change of concilatory  deep thinking , out of sight out of mind PM. They want Labor to attack everything as a point of difference.

Bill Shorten will not give them that point of difference with the New Tony Abbott.
By:
shiraz
When: 25 Sep 13 02:20
I sincerely pity you one eyed Laborites, it must be terrible waking up each day and hearing news about what the terrible Liberal government is doing.

The best way for any democracy to to thrive is to have strong Left and Right winged influences, too much of one or the other holds back progress.
By:
AFL
When: 26 Sep 13 02:23
Tony Abbott's incredible disappearing act
By ABC's Jonathan Green

In opposition every boat was paraded for full political effect. In government the shutters come down. Photo: In opposition every boat was paraded for full political effect. In government the shutters come down. (Alan Porritt: AAP)

Having spent three years shouting about every new boat arrival, Tony Abbott now says it is this information flow that has been a boon to people smugglers, writes Jonathan Green.

Changing the pace. How deft. And this was no subtle variation.

As opposition leader Tony Abbott toured the country, warning day in, day out - his message amplified by the florescent gleam of the inevitable hi-viz vest - of looming crises in border security and the economy, as well as the emergency for families and small businesses confronting first the prospect and then the reality of the carbon tax.

There was no time to be lost. An election ... now! That was the top line melody that came daily, against a steady bass of 'stop the boats' and 'abolish the tax'. Day in, week out. For three outraged years.

And then he was gone: the incredible vanishing Prime Minister. The sudden political calm was greeted by the muted golf clap of the political commentariat, who recognised the dexterity of this political craft work. The discipline. The sense of ordered, deliberate cunning.

Tony Abbott has been Prime Minister now for eight days, a period marked by his sudden withdrawal from public life, part of a broader closing down that clearly aims to remove the sense of urgent emergency that has been the backdrop for our politics since 2010.

A backdrop Tony Abbott created, of course. A backdrop manufactured against all the available evidence: of a robust economy, the steady but tiny trickle of hapless refugees, the neutral impact of the carbon tax. By rights then this backdrop is his to remove at will. And again, you've got to admire the skill. The political polish.

And that might be all very well around the technocratic margins of economic management, that playing field of Australian politics where two sides test their incapacity to truly alter global events against a set of mutually agreed and entirely sensible objectives. No-one really gets hurt there; they can do as they will.

The asylum seeker issue is a little different.

For three years the Abbott opposition did its best to generate a sense of chaos around the steady trickle of boats testing our borders, compassion and policy resolve. There were never that many, that was the truth, and most had reasonable claims to our protection; that was true too. And coming by sea involved an extraordinary and mortal risk, a calculation that was a fair indication of desperation.

For three years every arrival was proclaimed. From the blogs of the enthusiastic election-now! right, from newspapers of like mind. In the recent federal campaign, Tony Abbott even gave his support to a touring billboard that counted down every new boat arrival. The political line was simple and eager: the then government had lost control of our borders, it was unable to secure the perimeter. And worse: through its incapacity it threatened the lives of people tempted by a trade that had been fostered by the Gillard/Rudd governments' abandon and dysfunction.

This became a central pillar in the argument led by Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison: that the asylum seeker issue had urgency because of the terrible loss of life at sea. The proposition was a simple equation: which was the more compassionate response, to tear down the borders and encourage behaviour that risked life, or strengthen those deterrents and stop the boats and their cargo, all potential victims of death by drowning?

Then this week this issue moved from the noisy clamour of opposition to the quiet whirr of industrious government. No daily updates, no eagerly set upon numbers around the steady flow of boat arrivals.

In another master class in political craft, border protection was now a military operation, an area in which secrecy is a commonplace. Loose lips sink ships.

None of it is consistent, of course, none of it rings true. In opposition every boat was numbered and paraded for full political effect. In government the shutters come down.

We are now told that providing a regular flow of information, the "shipping news" as Minister Morrison called it this week, was a boon to the people smugglers, people capable of running complex multinational systems of human movement, but unable, it seems, to track their operations without the assistance of press releases from an obliging Australian government.

Hypocritical, of course.

And morally?

If as Morrison now claims the provision of this information has aided the smugglers, then we can assume it also, by his own arguments, put lives at risk. Logically that is precisely what Messrs Morrison and Abbott have spent the past three years in opposition doing: spreading information for political purpose that by their own standards of "shipping news" encouraged the smugglers and thus put the lives of asylum seekers in terrible jeopardy.

It's just politics, that's the consensus analysis. Just the sort of canny switch of gears we admire as the deft prosecution of the politician's art. And it's all we expect of them really: to play politics for the sake of political advantage and power.

The fact that they do it is not the thing that should bother us. The fact that we shrug our shoulders and recognise the political calculations for what they are and give them grudging admiration, that's the troubling bit.

We let ourselves be taken for this ride, by participating mutely in a structured political drama that can argue for people's very lives in one month then turn around the next and do the opposite straight faced. One of these elections we might demand better.

That we collude quietly for now is a particularly dark piece of moral turpitude. It shouldn't be assessed against the standards of political cunning, it should be judged against the standards of simple decency.

Jonathan Green is the presenter of Sunday Extra on Radio National and a former editor of The Drum. His book, The Year My Politics Broke, is out on October 1. View his full profile here.

Topics: federal-government, refugees, abbott-tony
By:
bigted.
When: 26 Sep 13 13:56
Al Downer ConfusedHappy..what's that busted arse failure doing on the abc talking Foreign Affairs..where's MorrisonConfused where's Mr Cut Cut CutConfused
L-Plate Murdoch Govt making a total mess of relationship with Indonesia. Slogan Bogan on collision course with reality ShockedHappyExcitedGrinSad
By:
AFL
When: 26 Sep 13 21:57
It's a Diplomatic Emergency. imo.
By:
Thebas
When: 26 Sep 13 22:27
Why did Gillard announce US marine deployments in Darwin and the suspension of live-cattle exports without first talking to Indonesia?

indonesia are already displeased ... the gillard diplomatic mess had already been set in place

... so i guess at least our new Govt is talking to Indonesia first ...

Indonesia might not like what we say about them ignoring our own sovereign rights in relation to their boats and their crews dumping people on our country


however ... i agree with you guys ... this is a diplomatic worry

(and maybe having the US troops in darwin will turn out a blessing Plain )

------

we can right back to the East Timor invasion by Indonesia to show our history with this massively populated island (about 250 million people)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_invasion_of_East_Timor#Australian_involvement

In September 2000 the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade released previously secret files that showed that comments by the Whitlam Labor Government may have encouraged the Suharto regime to invade East Timor.[77]

Despite the unpopularity of the events in East Timor within some segments of the Australian public, the Fraser, Hawke and Keating governments allegedly co-operated with the Indonesian military and President Suharto to obscure details about conditions in East Timor and to preserve Indonesian control of the region.[78]

There was some disquiet towards policy with the Australian public, because of the deaths of the Australian journalists and arguably also because the actions of the Timorese people in supporting Australian forces during the Battle of Timor in World War II were well-remembered.

Protests took place in Australia against the occupation, and some Australian nationals participated in the resistance movement.
By:
wombleoz
When: 26 Sep 13 22:47
Thebas - surely you accept humans are having an impact on the planet??? Limiting that impact isn't a bad thing imo

Upsetting Indonesia isn't smart - any chance they were going to stop a few boats leaving becomes no chance if they want to send a message to the new government

Saul Eastlake right in saying that if there is such a "budget emergency" delaying MEYFO will be bad for confidence because people will think they are hiding something

I am hoping if Abbott goes to the AFL GF he gets the reception he deserves - might destroy any impressions that he is popular - boo away i say Cool
By:
Thebas
When: 26 Sep 13 22:58
Thebas - surely you accept humans are having an impact on the planet??? Limiting that impact isn't a bad thing imo

i do agree mate ... from denuding the planet ... stripping the amazon basin of basically all its foliage ... the basin was once called the 'lungs of the earth' by its capccity to soak up co2

in fact i agree with all the statements of co2 being a greenhouse and yes we have been emitting it in higher and higher levels for the past 20 years in greater proportions

the earth hasn't succumbed to this ... their is no current warming (other than on the surface which is definately human caused lol)

and we will need an alternative power source in the future

driving our own country back to third world standards by limiting electricity usage because we are 'gonna slug ya in the hip pocket' is dinosaur thinking

and all the evidence i can see is that the powers that want to BURN more coal .. that is why they will trade credits ...

burn more and make money ... is the game plan .. if only they really had the environment at heart

-----

historically it went like this in the Un/IPCC

they had the idea FIRST for a currency tax  (the global bankers had too big a lobby and this was shelved)

then they wanted a fossil fuel tax (initially it was OIL they wanted to tax ie petrol ... but the oilers had too big a lobby and this was shelved)

then they came upon co2 ... limited lobby ... tax initially but ultimatley and ever increasing TRADE of credits will take place

shame about the environment

-----

this published article received very little discussion in australia ... and NONE i believe from our local Labor/Greens alliance

it is progressive ... and interesting .. i dont know if its the future or safe or anything (but i will find out lol)

but at least they are not planning to send citizens back to the dark ages where its lights out at 9 lol)

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/04/labourgreen-co-press-release-on-electricity-generation/#axzz2froovxe6

Today, the Green and Labour Parties announce our new Electricity Generation Policy based on Micro Nuclear Power generation. We intend to deploy modular, scalable Light Water Reactor nuclear power plant systems, each unit producing 45MW of electricity throughout New Zealand, starting where it is needed most: in Auckland”.

----


and .. i agree ... upsetting indonesia isn't smart ... australia's last 2 successive govt seems intent on doing it .. for what reason i am not sure
By:
wombleoz
When: 26 Sep 13 23:08
i'll believe the scientists - sorry, well in part - it's not going to be as drastic as they say as fast as they say but it's happening and we should do what we can to slow it down or stop it if we can. including stopping "denuding" the planet

anyways, gotta get to work - sooner i get there the sooner i leave and have my first cider Cool

have a great day
By:
Thebas
When: 26 Sep 13 23:12
we should do what we can to slow it down or stop it if we can

if that is the science plan .. then al gore running to buy up a carbon credit trading house together with the goldman's ... suggests to me THEY want to ... burn more ... and more .. and more

grubs taking scientific info and turning it to profit

shame about the environment  Sad

have a good one
By:
AFL
When: 26 Sep 13 23:39
Howard knew the SLAUGHTER was coming and did nothing to prevent it or stop it,once it started, despite daily reports of the killings.
He only moved once the pressure to act started to impact domestically and it had subsided and he and DOWNER refused to listen to the cries for help during the slaughter.

Then he and DOWNER  went in as the hero after the slaughter.......and then he and DOWNER stole their oil and gas reserves in the Timor Sea as payment.

Howard and Kelly rewrite history on East Timor
Professor Damien Kingsbury | Sep 08, 2009
crikey.com.au

It is hardly novel that a politician looking back at the glory days of office will want to ensure that their political legacy looks as positive as possible. And for whatever faults one might find with John Howard’s period as prime minister, he was a politically-successful prime minister.

One wonders, then, why Howard finds it necessary to create a palpable fiction over his commitment to East Timor’s independence, which he claimed was both inevitable and that he would go along with it. Similarly, one wonders why a journalist of Paul Kelly’s stature would participate in the peddling of the fiction that “the Howard government decided in early 1999 to work for East Timor’s independence”, given evidence to the opposite is both overwhelming and freely available.

Howard’s claim is contained in Paul Kelly’s book The March of Patriots — the Struggle for Modern Australia, the subject of a self-authored puff piece in The Weekend Australian. In short, Howard not only did not “work for east Timor’s independence”. In fact, both his words and actions were contrary to this outcome.

By late 1998, Indonesia had already been involved in discussions with Portugal and the UN about moving towards some sort of resolution to the East Timor issue, and the Indonesian army had begun forming its anti-independence militias from that time.

Howard’s letter to Indonesia’s President Habibie in December 1998 suggesting a protracted process of resolution was intended to ensure that Australia was no longer seen to be unquestioningly endorsing East Timor’s incorporation into Indonesia at a time when Indonesia’s no longer held such a view.

Howard’s foreign minister, Alexander Downer, publically accepted Indonesia’s patently false denials about the militias, despite intelligence briefs to the contrary. In a discussion between DFAT secretary Ashton Calvert and senior US envoy Stanley Roth, Roth said that a full-scale peace-keeping operation in East Timor was necessary. Calvert, acting on government orders, refused. Roth later said Australia’s policy of keeping the peace-keeping option at “arms length was essentially defeatist”.

Howard also opposed having official Australian observers to the ballot, and only accepted the need for a small parliamentary delegation at the last moment, and after the creation of a politically independent Australian NGO observer group.

Australian Defence Forces were similarly told not to prepare for involvement in East Timor, including no logistic support for the ballot or to send military observers. It did, however, plan to extract Australian civilians if and when the situation deteriorated.

Yet just two weeks ahead of the ballot, Downer told Australian observers in the courtyard of Dili’s Resende Inn that they should not expect assistance if the security situation deteriorated further. The message was clear: do not stay. That was the same message being sent at that time by the militias, who wanted not witnesses to their carnage.

At this time, the Australian government was acting against  — and denying the content of  — a flood if since leaked intelligence showing the Indonesian army was working to derail the ballot. The Howard government’s position on East Timor was, in public that it should remain as part of Indonesia, and in private that it would do nothing to hinder that outcome.

In that Australia sent an intervention force, the Howard government did not even give the order to prepare until 7 September  — more than a week after the ballot, and the force was immediately faced with equipment shortfalls due to this lack of planning.

Ultimately Australia was pushed into leading INTERFET by the US, which acted as guarantor for Indonesia’s acquiescence. To suggest that, as Howard has done, that he secretly supported East Timor’s independence can only be understood as true if such a secret was not only kept from the public, but also government ministers, the most senior government officials and the Australian Defence Force that was ultimately required to cobble together an intervention capacity.

Australia’s intervention in East Timor was a great achievement, if too late to stop a slaughter. But it followed the outrage of the Australian people, not some “secret” agenda of the then prime minister.

Associate Professor Damien Kingsbury from Deakin University is author of ‘East Timor: The Price of Freedom’ (Palgrave 2009).
By:
Thebas
When: 26 Sep 13 23:45
Australia’s intervention in East Timor was a great achievement, if too late to stop a slaughter. But it followed the outrage of the Australian people, not some “secret” agenda of the then prime minister.

Associate Professor Damien Kingsbury from Deakin University is author of ‘East Timor: The Price of Freedom’ (Palgrave 2009).



... genuine closing words from that article

but let's hope we are not on the brink of a current failed australian/indonesian diplomacy regarding the asylum seekers issue now
By:
bigted.
When: 28 Sep 13 01:44
BREAKING: Tony Abbott has RUN from the AFL grand final breakfast & refused to answer questions about the latest asylum seeker deaths..
Physically running across the turf of Etihad Stadium. Extraordinary scenes. Laugh   mug

he's the fittest PM since Harold Holt Happy
By:
Thebas
When: 28 Sep 13 02:10
those poor people (mostly kids) who just lost their lives at sea were still near java ... indonesia ...

nowhere near australia (but intending for christmas island)

the indonesians must finally start to take responsibility ... now that deaths are occurring before even sailing and in THEIR waters

how were the boats put in the water ... who was captaining them

next week appareently Australia and Indonesia will attempt some meaningful dialogue Plain

and some indonesian account resolution must occur at their end also

gillard couldn't come up with anything ... she just chose howard's policy in the end ffs

now abbott has inherited these awful situations ... it's 3 successive govt's now and these deaths are still occuring

only time will tell whether we can get indonesia to agree ... that their boats and their captains ... just SHOULDN'T be sailing anyone into our sovereign waters


----

he's the fittest PM since Harold Holt

a classic Ted ... glad you didn't go the next politically incorrect step ... in the comparison Wink
By:
THERE....IS....NO....SPOOOOON
When: 28 Sep 13 02:16
They couldn't give a flying about deaths or the "effect" on their international image.

Cash kickbacks are far more important than any number of drowning "aliens". 

Life's cheap in Indo.
By:
Thebas
When: 28 Sep 13 02:28
sounds to me just about how it is spoon Sad
By:
wombleoz
When: 28 Sep 13 03:01
never like commenting on this stuff while they are still looking for survivors but the deaths are no more the responsibility of the Indonesians than they are ours - might sound harsh but these people gambled on getting on a boat and lost

it's sad that they feel so desperate for a better life that they will take that big a risk but it seems to be the way it is

genuine regional processing is the solution but it will take good will and genuine intent from all to get it up and running, unfortunately I'm not sure we'll ever get that

missed the footage of Abbott running away but I'm sure it will be shown again and again and again LaughLaughLaugh

really hoping the crowd at the MCG send Abbott a message today if they show him on the big screen - sure he is PM but not because people wanted him, they just couldn't vote for the alternative Sad
By:
Thebas
When: 28 Sep 13 03:40
sad but prob true womble

... and genuine regional processing

how about some G R P in indonesia ... i mean the asylum seekers are already there ... danger is over ... assimilate them locally

otherwise it's what spoon suggests and the business/money is the driver in downtown and regional jogjakata

can't make the big bucks unless you on-move the desperate to another country

(maybe that's why abbott was jogging  Wink )
By:
PittsburghPhil
When: 28 Sep 13 08:56
Coalition 6-point Boat Policy

Stage 1: Stop the boats

Stage 2: Turn Back the boats

Stage 3: Turn Back the boats (if it is safe to do so)

Stage 4: Hide the boats

Stage 5: Boats? What Boats?
By:
PittsburghPhil
When: 28 Sep 13 08:58
Oh, I forgot

Stage 2 and a half: Buy the boats
By:
shiraz
When: 28 Sep 13 12:10
ForF....SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!

If the roles were reversed and there were people smugglers coming from Aus to Indo what do you think would be the attitude??????

I lived in Indonesia (central Java) for about five years and I retain a healthy disrespect for the 'social' attitudes displayed by the 'upper middle classes'.  To my knowledge it's hard to compare it to any other social structure in the current world, maybe medieval Europe.

There is corruption at every level and it is accepted as just a part of life and is just kept quiet rather than being regarded as 'illegal' and immoral.
By:
Thebas
When: 29 Sep 13 02:17
shorten a genuine bloke ?

or maybe looking for votes in 3 years time (albo in big trouble now imo ... been disenfranchised of many voters with bill getting the jump on him)

-----

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/19154043/labor-leadership-contest-bill-shorten-wants-quotas-to-boost-number-of-gay-politicians-in-parliament/


Labor leadership candidate Bill Shorten wants to introduce quotas to boost the number of gay and lesbian politicians in Parliament.

Mr Shorten is continuing his pitch to the party membership, that calls for the introduction of quotas for politicians representing minority groups.

Mr Shorten also wants to redouble the party's efforts to boost the number of female candiates to 40 per cent.

-----

now just takin the p!ss here guys ... so settle down ... but

boost the number of females huh ... wasn't it Bill who ... not too gallantly ... wielded the blunt knife to OUST his sitting PM Julia ...

she was a female you know Bill  Laugh  Wink
By:
doubleagent
When: 29 Sep 13 02:22
Boost the number of gay and lesbian politicians?? I assumed they were all gay and lesbian already.
By:
bigted.
When: 29 Sep 13 02:23
By:
wombleoz
When: 29 Sep 13 04:10
Indonesia is just a transit country, I don't blame them at all for turning a blind eye and waving them through - ideally there would be proper queue and processing there, or somewhere near by, but there isn't

Will be interesting to see how the Abbott visit goes - how much ground will he give???

I hope everyone has their receipts so they can claim costs for weddings they've gone to Angry
By:
bigted.
When: 29 Sep 13 13:46
Brandis Laugh

Friends of shock jocks = ****s

IMO

Laugh
By:
doubleagent
When: 29 Sep 13 13:48
What is a shock jock? I'm thinking Howard Stern?
By:
THERE....IS....NO....SPOOOOON
When: 29 Sep 13 13:59
I don't blame them at all for turning a blind eye and waving them through

Wombler, FFS Cry

HEAD IN HANDS MAN ........STAT!
By:
doubleagent
When: 29 Sep 13 14:01
We should do the same. Turn a blind eye and wave them on to NZ!
By:
bigted.
When: 29 Sep 13 14:07
howard stern without the t1tties in the studio..
By:
THERE....IS....NO....SPOOOOON
When: 29 Sep 13 14:11
We should do the same. Turn a blind eye and wave them on to NZ! Laugh

Womble won't blame us! Who's next? The Cook Islanders Silly
By:
doubleagent
When: 29 Sep 13 14:14
Send Womble with 'em! He LOVES them SO MUCH he should become one!
By:
doubleagent
When: 29 Sep 13 14:31
Who are the shock jocks?



Btw do you remember when Pittsburgh Phil said nobody should have jobs? I'm still getting my head around that one.
By:
PittsburghPhil
When: 29 Sep 13 14:42
Did I actually say that?

I don't think I would have used those exact words.

I probably said something like we should shrink the economy by working less and consuming less. A perfectly reasonable proposition. If you can't get your head around that it's probably because it's gone over your head.
By:
THERE....IS....NO....SPOOOOON
When: 29 Sep 13 14:43
He's tall. Can't expect him to be very bright, Phil.
By:
doubleagent
When: 29 Sep 13 14:45
You can't remember saying it! Maybe you were pissed when you said it. Or maybe you're pissed now. Maybe both!
By:
PittsburghPhil
When: 29 Sep 13 15:29
Link please ...

... either that or stop talking bollocks.
By:
doubleagent
When: 29 Sep 13 15:33
Wish I could find it! It's a forum classic!
By:
AFL
When: 29 Sep 13 21:54
It was Brandis who made a criminal complaint against Peter Slipper for $1100 , misuse of Cabcharge....... thus preventing Slipper from repaying it,as he had offered to do....... and over riding the same rules that Brandis has just used to sqirm out of this.

If he thought that $1100 of Cabcharge was worth  a police investigation and police charges, then why doesn't he think that $3000 of wedding expenses deserves the same or worse charges?
By:
Thebas
When: 29 Sep 13 22:50
Gillard misused her expense account also ... and was caught out by the watchdog and asked to repay it  Laugh
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