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Is Black Caviar a freak?
On Friday night we saw the wonder mare Black Caviar win her 24th consecutive race, again in easy fashion.
Is she a freak of nature?
I have had a chance to rate her fitness levels about ten of these starts and on Friday I believe for the first time in her career, trainer Peter Moody peaked her 100% Super Fit.
Black Caviar has massive strength factors in her hind quarters which are probably 20k heavier that the good horses. This is where she gets all her power drive from. Her strength factors, hypertrophic muscle on muscles, nutritional and fitness levels all rated 100% last night.
She is at least as big as great male horses as Manikato and Hareeba.
She is in the best fitness condition of her life, a far cry from at Royal Ascot when on the Tuesday trial rating 99% fit, it was all downhill in fitness to her Saturday win on lower 96% fit. Something was wrong and she raced 4 lengths below her best.
Another first was the prerace program undertaken at the track. It is the first time in over 50 years of racing I have seen that a trainer has got it perfectly right!
Black Caviar had a warm up in the parade yard for 6-7 minutes prior to going into the mounting yard. It takes that long for the oxygen in the blood, pumped from the heart to reach her feet. The 1st goal Peter Moody kicked.
Second goal; she was slowly galloped once on the track to the starting stalls. I am a long advocate the too many horses go too fast to the starting stalls and her slower gallop was perfect to stimulate her oxygen levels into her muscles before a race. Once behind the stalls it takes 90 seconds to re-charge those levels of oxygen used back into her system. Everything was perfect to give her every chance.
In contrast, as an opposite example, I recently saw a jockey go around and around at half gallop on his horse behind the stalls for at least 4 minutes in a race in Hong Kong. It ran last!
Vain V Black Caviar
I have seen both these great horses’ race and Vain was an outstanding sprinter in the 70’s that won 12 from 14 races, sometimes by huge margins only to retire with an injury. He is recognized as Australia’s premier sprinter until know and many debates are carried on in pubs and clubs who would win a match race.
I think over their pet distance of 1200 metres, Vain would be a length in front of Black Caviar at the 400 metre mark from home and Pat Hyland on Vain, would release the brakes and catch me if you can tactics.
Vain would skip 2-3 lengths on her because of his explosive acceleration but by the 150 metre mark Vain would be only 1 length in front with Black Caviar now in full flight. 100 out they are locked together and the whips are cracking for a sensational finish. Because of Black Caviar’s amazing strength factors she wins by a neck.
Black Caviar is a freak of stature and conformation, plus brilliance and we should all follow this once in a lifetime champion.
I would continue to race and yes, back again to Royal Ascot because the sad fact of freakish champion mares is that they rarely produce in the breeding barn.
Jim Conway CEO
On Friday night we saw the wonder mare Black Caviar win her 24th consecutive race, again in easy fashion.
Is she a freak of nature?
I have had a chance to rate her fitness levels about ten of these starts and on Friday I believe for the first time in her career, trainer Peter Moody peaked her 100% Super Fit.
Black Caviar has massive strength factors in her hind quarters which are probably 20k heavier that the good horses. This is where she gets all her power drive from. Her strength factors, hypertrophic muscle on muscles, nutritional and fitness levels all rated 100% last night.
She is at least as big as great male horses as Manikato and Hareeba.
She is in the best fitness condition of her life, a far cry from at Royal Ascot when on the Tuesday trial rating 99% fit, it was all downhill in fitness to her Saturday win on lower 96% fit. Something was wrong and she raced 4 lengths below her best.
Another first was the prerace program undertaken at the track. It is the first time in over 50 years of racing I have seen that a trainer has got it perfectly right!
Black Caviar had a warm up in the parade yard for 6-7 minutes prior to going into the mounting yard. It takes that long for the oxygen in the blood, pumped from the heart to reach her feet. The 1st goal Peter Moody kicked.
Second goal; she was slowly galloped once on the track to the starting stalls. I am a long advocate the too many horses go too fast to the starting stalls and her slower gallop was perfect to stimulate her oxygen levels into her muscles before a race. Once behind the stalls it takes 90 seconds to re-charge those levels of oxygen used back into her system. Everything was perfect to give her every chance.
In contrast, as an opposite example, I recently saw a jockey go around and around at half gallop on his horse behind the stalls for at least 4 minutes in a race in Hong Kong. It ran last!
Vain V Black Caviar
I have seen both these great horses’ race and Vain was an outstanding sprinter in the 70’s that won 12 from 14 races, sometimes by huge margins only to retire with an injury. He is recognized as Australia’s premier sprinter until know and many debates are carried on in pubs and clubs who would win a match race.
I think over their pet distance of 1200 metres, Vain would be a length in front of Black Caviar at the 400 metre mark from home and Pat Hyland on Vain, would release the brakes and catch me if you can tactics.
Vain would skip 2-3 lengths on her because of his explosive acceleration but by the 150 metre mark Vain would be only 1 length in front with Black Caviar now in full flight. 100 out they are locked together and the whips are cracking for a sensational finish. Because of Black Caviar’s amazing strength factors she wins by a neck.
Black Caviar is a freak of stature and conformation, plus brilliance and we should all follow this once in a lifetime champion.
I would continue to race and yes, back again to Royal Ascot because the sad fact of freakish champion mares is that they rarely produce in the breeding barn.
Jim Conway CEO
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Nah, just his lunchbox... Some goose trying to talk after the fact and sell ****. Lowest of the low.
value bet for mine i reckon you got it right
until black caviar came along i always thought VAIN was the best 1200m i had seen ive been punting for over 50yrs but now its BLACK CAVIAR from VAIN..
until black caviar came along i always thought VAIN was the best 1200m i had seen ive been punting for over 50yrs but now its BLACK CAVIAR from VAIN..
only 4L off her best in England Jim?
are you serious, i would say 10L conservatively....can you imagine any of those hacks getting within a bulls roar in her newmarket win?
are you serious, i would say 10L conservatively....can you imagine any of those hacks getting within a bulls roar in her newmarket win?
Only reason she hasn't gone to stud is they can't find a stallion that will let her go on top
They are gunna have to rope in black caviar,cause if they just put em both in a paddock,Frankel will stay a virgin. Wont be able to get within 50 yards of her
Everybody knows i cant spell, Normally Lets Elope finds it.
Breeding i mean.
Let the Public enjoy
Breeding i mean.
Let the Public enjoy
So if Frankel gets to root the Cav who has to pay the service fee?
It has been confirmed England's wonder horse, Frankel, will be available to serve 20-25 southern hemisphere broodmares this year, which opens the door for a covering of Black Caviar even if she bypasses Royal Ascot.
Juddmonte Farms general manager Phillip Mitchell told London's Telegraph earlier this week interest from Australian and New Zealand breeders had exceeded expectations and Frankel's owner, Prince Khalid Abdullah, had given his consent.
"We have had a huge interest in Frankel from the southern hemisphere,'' Mitchell said. ''We have decided to make him available to a very small and select group of mares, which is something we have done in the past with Dansili and Oasis Dream. We have had no contact direct contact with the owners of Black Caviar, but if at some time they would like to discuss a visit to Frankel, we would be very happy to have that discussion."
Frankel will have a harem of 135 mares in his first season at Juddmonte Farms' Banstead Manor Stud in England at a fee of £125,000 (180,000). It is believed Frankel's fee for the southern breeders would be £100,000, to assist with travel and insurance costs to England.
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New Zealand-based bloodstock consultant Ric Wylie has been advising Australian and NZ breeders of the opportunity. He said Pencarrow Stud, in Waikato, owned by two of the country's biggest breeders, Peter and Phillip Vela, was intending to send two of its blue-hen mares to the 14-time winner. The Velas own the New Zealand Bloodstock auction house at Karaka and have experienced huge racetrack success, including the Caulfield-Melbourne Cup double with Ethereal.
Australia's big three studs - Coolmore, Darley and Arrowfield - will no doubt find the availability of Frankel most enticing as they have mares in the northern hemisphere. However, they all have high-profile stallion interests in Europe. Coolmore shuttles Fastnet Rock, Darley has many of its star sires in Newmarket, including Exceed and Excel, while Arrowfield has sent Redoute's Choice to the Aga Khan's base in France for the first time this year.
Applications are now open to Australasian breeders and the calibre of the mares involved will make for interesting reading.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/frankel-opens-door-to-caviar-othe...
Juddmonte Farms general manager Phillip Mitchell told London's Telegraph earlier this week interest from Australian and New Zealand breeders had exceeded expectations and Frankel's owner, Prince Khalid Abdullah, had given his consent.
"We have had a huge interest in Frankel from the southern hemisphere,'' Mitchell said. ''We have decided to make him available to a very small and select group of mares, which is something we have done in the past with Dansili and Oasis Dream. We have had no contact direct contact with the owners of Black Caviar, but if at some time they would like to discuss a visit to Frankel, we would be very happy to have that discussion."
Frankel will have a harem of 135 mares in his first season at Juddmonte Farms' Banstead Manor Stud in England at a fee of £125,000 (180,000). It is believed Frankel's fee for the southern breeders would be £100,000, to assist with travel and insurance costs to England.
Advertisement
New Zealand-based bloodstock consultant Ric Wylie has been advising Australian and NZ breeders of the opportunity. He said Pencarrow Stud, in Waikato, owned by two of the country's biggest breeders, Peter and Phillip Vela, was intending to send two of its blue-hen mares to the 14-time winner. The Velas own the New Zealand Bloodstock auction house at Karaka and have experienced huge racetrack success, including the Caulfield-Melbourne Cup double with Ethereal.
Australia's big three studs - Coolmore, Darley and Arrowfield - will no doubt find the availability of Frankel most enticing as they have mares in the northern hemisphere. However, they all have high-profile stallion interests in Europe. Coolmore shuttles Fastnet Rock, Darley has many of its star sires in Newmarket, including Exceed and Excel, while Arrowfield has sent Redoute's Choice to the Aga Khan's base in France for the first time this year.
Applications are now open to Australasian breeders and the calibre of the mares involved will make for interesting reading.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/frankel-opens-door-to-caviar-othe...
Sandown Summary and black bookers 27-03-2013
RACE 1.
Il Cavallo top rated on 96% in field of first starters and won. Nice strong horse and may
have a future in Saturday class.
RACE 2.
(9) Double Dee on 98% was our top rate horse all day and this lightly raced
Filly looks set for a nice career now over more distance, was hopeless first 600 metres
settling 2nd last and worked into the race from there on and finished off well and not that
far from the place getters. No doubt 1200 especially at Flemington a black booker.
RACE 3.
No Bet on lower ratings of many horses. On 96% fit the filly from the Michael Kent
stable, Demonstrable could win a bush race next start.
RACE 4.
Top weight Two Sugars on 97% fit was our top rated and just piped 20 metres out,
but at $2.40 a place in a field of 7 was a good dividend.
RACE 5.
Gogonski was our top fitness rated at 96% and just failed to win with a good 2nd at $2.40 a place.
with the last scratching of Van rossum, which I missed it then bought the field back to 7 runners, but
paid 1-2-3 on the tote.
RACE 6.
I got it wrong with Glenmaura on 96% on top and ran 4th, he had suspect distance form over the 1300 metres and black book him over 1200 and similar type race. Mariella also on 96% fit ran a nice race for a good 2nd and again black book for similar type of a race.
RACE 7.
The Chris Waller trainer Rugged Cross on 97% fit was having his 1st start since racing in England won a tight due with stable mate High on Believing at double figure odds and on 96% fit ran 2nd. We got 1-2 across the line here.
Be a bit careful of wagering on Rugged Cross as the hype will have him short priced next start and he really is only just above pony size and that will tell in better company.
Rock Hit was a late scratching in the last (9) so one short in tips and the (7) was next selection. It made up $2k in exotic profits, damn.
Tipping:
1 horse Tip, unplaced but black book Double Dee
Exotic ratings: Top horse 5 tips: 2 winners, 2 seconds, 1 4th
Members are over 4,000% in profit this week.
Cheers
Jim
RACE 1.
Il Cavallo top rated on 96% in field of first starters and won. Nice strong horse and may
have a future in Saturday class.
RACE 2.
(9) Double Dee on 98% was our top rate horse all day and this lightly raced
Filly looks set for a nice career now over more distance, was hopeless first 600 metres
settling 2nd last and worked into the race from there on and finished off well and not that
far from the place getters. No doubt 1200 especially at Flemington a black booker.
RACE 3.
No Bet on lower ratings of many horses. On 96% fit the filly from the Michael Kent
stable, Demonstrable could win a bush race next start.
RACE 4.
Top weight Two Sugars on 97% fit was our top rated and just piped 20 metres out,
but at $2.40 a place in a field of 7 was a good dividend.
RACE 5.
Gogonski was our top fitness rated at 96% and just failed to win with a good 2nd at $2.40 a place.
with the last scratching of Van rossum, which I missed it then bought the field back to 7 runners, but
paid 1-2-3 on the tote.
RACE 6.
I got it wrong with Glenmaura on 96% on top and ran 4th, he had suspect distance form over the 1300 metres and black book him over 1200 and similar type race. Mariella also on 96% fit ran a nice race for a good 2nd and again black book for similar type of a race.
RACE 7.
The Chris Waller trainer Rugged Cross on 97% fit was having his 1st start since racing in England won a tight due with stable mate High on Believing at double figure odds and on 96% fit ran 2nd. We got 1-2 across the line here.
Be a bit careful of wagering on Rugged Cross as the hype will have him short priced next start and he really is only just above pony size and that will tell in better company.
Rock Hit was a late scratching in the last (9) so one short in tips and the (7) was next selection. It made up $2k in exotic profits, damn.
Tipping:
1 horse Tip, unplaced but black book Double Dee
Exotic ratings: Top horse 5 tips: 2 winners, 2 seconds, 1 4th
Members are over 4,000% in profit this week.
Cheers
Jim
Hi all,
SMS members won thousands of per cents’ in profits this week, but I know I can lift
the bar higher again for members to win even bigger.
Half the exotic calls are paying great trifectas and Pick 4’s; I believe there are
certain strategies to wager on these races to win a higher percentage of the dividend,
yet still wager the same amount or touch more.
Working around banker horses, I will call certain types of waging suggestions to increase
your profits.
Unknown to members, you were that close to having a 10,000% PROFIT FOR THIS WEEK
and the previous week also!
It only takes 1 single number to be included in the right races plus a new better, betting strategy and BINGO.
Maybe you can invest $500 at the start of the week and have $50,000 3 days later.
My mission is to make 10,000% profit in one and more weeks during the year for SMS members and I will tell you how and when!
This little black duck has had a very big week as working now on 5 new inventions, writing patents, developing and registered a new reality cooking show lodged in the copyright courts in America and thousands of per cent’s in profits for SMS members backing fitter horses.
My brain hurts but that’s ok.
Cheers and have a happy Easter.
Jim Conway
SMS members won thousands of per cents’ in profits this week, but I know I can lift
the bar higher again for members to win even bigger.
Half the exotic calls are paying great trifectas and Pick 4’s; I believe there are
certain strategies to wager on these races to win a higher percentage of the dividend,
yet still wager the same amount or touch more.
Working around banker horses, I will call certain types of waging suggestions to increase
your profits.
Unknown to members, you were that close to having a 10,000% PROFIT FOR THIS WEEK
and the previous week also!
It only takes 1 single number to be included in the right races plus a new better, betting strategy and BINGO.
Maybe you can invest $500 at the start of the week and have $50,000 3 days later.
My mission is to make 10,000% profit in one and more weeks during the year for SMS members and I will tell you how and when!
This little black duck has had a very big week as working now on 5 new inventions, writing patents, developing and registered a new reality cooking show lodged in the copyright courts in America and thousands of per cent’s in profits for SMS members backing fitter horses.
My brain hurts but that’s ok.
Cheers and have a happy Easter.
Jim Conway
Jim, we have a problem, I am currently launching a new reality home renovation show in America and I am told I will be in direct competition with some guy trying to launch a cooking show. Put your dukes up Jim, we are going to war. I am ready for the challenge of battling a doyen with your experience and intellect.
I also have 16 new inventions on the go, one of which will make a 20,000% percent return every two days!! BINGO
Regards,
Aussie Driver
CEO
I also have 16 new inventions on the go, one of which will make a 20,000% percent return every two days!! BINGO
Regards,
Aussie Driver
CEO
FREE 1ST 20 only today parade yard fitness tips from Singapore SMS to you.
Starts 3.50pm today, 11 big races.
Just email me your mobile number.
You know where to contact me.
Jim
Starts 3.50pm today, 11 big races.
Just email me your mobile number.
You know where to contact me.
Jim
Vain by four. Paleface Adios second. Black Caviar a tired third. Sorry the horse is simply not that good. The most hyped overrated protected horse to race in Australia in the last fifty years. No Australian sprinter has ever done what Vain did to older horses as an early three year old.
For two months before the Queen Anne i never let up on how this horse was the most overrated mollycoddled horse to ever race in Australia. I was proved right.
Give me a gutsy war horse like Paleface Adios anyday.
For two months before the Queen Anne i never let up on how this horse was the most overrated mollycoddled horse to ever race in Australia. I was proved right.
Give me a gutsy war horse like Paleface Adios anyday.
Sounds bit silly but i would respect the mare more if she was pushed to the limits and got beaten (not that its her fault she is winning exhibition gallops).
Makybe Diva, Sunline and Kingston Town are still my favorites. They took on allcomers and won better races.
Makybe Diva, Sunline and Kingston Town are still my favorites. They took on allcomers and won better races.
Could not agree more Kye.
Great champions are pushed outside their comfort zones and get beaten. That adds to their champion status. Great champions of the past Like Vain, Sunline, Takeover Target. Manakato, [Kingston Town and Ajax] won from 1200 to 3200. Ajax won eighteen in a row,Zoom Top ,PharLap Paleface Adios were always pushed to their limits.
So she stepped up at five and raced over 1400,when she always looked like she would get the distance. How gutsy. Powderpuff.
Great champions are pushed outside their comfort zones and get beaten. That adds to their champion status. Great champions of the past Like Vain, Sunline, Takeover Target. Manakato, [Kingston Town and Ajax] won from 1200 to 3200. Ajax won eighteen in a row,Zoom Top ,PharLap Paleface Adios were always pushed to their limits.
So she stepped up at five and raced over 1400,when she always looked like she would get the distance. How gutsy. Powderpuff.
The 1400 you speak of was a G1, she wins by 3.5l then 7 days later drops to 1000m G1 and easily beats Hay List by 1.8l, yeah thats powderpuff stuff, some good judges here
You been smoking the next door neighbors front lawn again,Tilt
---Ive seen lots of great horses.
Manikato,Kingston Town,Dulcify(we wont ever know how good he might have been) Makybe Diva. .Not old enough to have seen Vain. Black Caviar is better than all of them by a long shot. Nolen has only let it go once,2 starts ago ,and it smashed a 25 year old track record. Would hold every track record if wanted to,but obviuosly might not have stayed sound. They have cuddled the horse for a reason. Too keep it racing for as long as possible. All those 4 and 5 length wins could easily have been 10length wins. NO horse has ever been this dominant. ps--YOu can only beat what your racing against. There are lots of group one winners that BC has made to look like hurdlers. Freak horse.Wont be another like it for a long long time.
ps-Tilt---If you think Paleface was a champ,what does that make Maori's Idol?--Or did you forget Maoris Idol(trotter) sprinting past Paleface Adios (pacer), like he was nailed to the ground,up in Brisbane. Ps--The Idol and BC--best,most dominant, 2 horses ever seen by a long way.
---Ive seen lots of great horses.Manikato,Kingston Town,Dulcify(we wont ever know how good he might have been) Makybe Diva. .Not old enough to have seen Vain. Black Caviar is better than all of them by a long shot. Nolen has only let it go once,2 starts ago ,and it smashed a 25 year old track record. Would hold every track record if wanted to,but obviuosly might not have stayed sound. They have cuddled the horse for a reason. Too keep it racing for as long as possible. All those 4 and 5 length wins could easily have been 10length wins. NO horse has ever been this dominant. ps--YOu can only beat what your racing against. There are lots of group one winners that BC has made to look like hurdlers. Freak horse.Wont be another like it for a long long time.
ps-Tilt---If you think Paleface was a champ,what does that make Maori's Idol?--Or did you forget Maoris Idol(trotter) sprinting past Paleface Adios (pacer), like he was nailed to the ground,up in Brisbane. Ps--The Idol and BC--best,most dominant, 2 horses ever seen by a long way.
I give it to BC because what she and Moody have achieved has only been done by one other horse in 200 years of racing world wide .
One might say well Vain had more depth in winning distance and beating older horses.
But many horses have done this over their careers.
BC and is the ONLY HORSE WORLD WIDE to have done what she has done in her winning streak for around 200 years.
People deride this achievement by saying she has been molly coddled and it's more about placement than ability.
The facts do not bear this out, as if it is so easy to just rack up wins this way, then why is she the only horse to achieve this streak in 200 years world wide?
One might say well Vain had more depth in winning distance and beating older horses.
But many horses have done this over their careers.
BC and is the ONLY HORSE WORLD WIDE to have done what she has done in her winning streak for around 200 years.
People deride this achievement by saying she has been molly coddled and it's more about placement than ability.
The facts do not bear this out, as if it is so easy to just rack up wins this way, then why is she the only horse to achieve this streak in 200 years world wide?
AFL
I will tell you why.
If you put a three legged horse up against a good four legged horse five hundred times over the same distance then the four legged horse will win every time.
Yes it is a sign of the times but the amount of hype that this horse has received is an insult to all the great Australin and international champions of the past. "Better than Frankel" " Better than Pharlap. What a load of crap. Black Caviar lines up against an ordinaty lot in the Queen Anne and nearly got rolled.One of the few times that he has been tested away from the skating rinks in Melbourne
I have seen all the great horses in Australia horses over the last fifty years and Black Caviar is the most mollycoddled so called champion i have seen.
Can anyone on this site name another great Australian chanpiopn that has been so mollycoddled? Then name the horse please.
I can not think of one. I certainly wasn't Vain. The only freak i have seen on an Australian ractrack in fifty years.
I will tell you why.
If you put a three legged horse up against a good four legged horse five hundred times over the same distance then the four legged horse will win every time.
Yes it is a sign of the times but the amount of hype that this horse has received is an insult to all the great Australin and international champions of the past. "Better than Frankel" " Better than Pharlap. What a load of crap. Black Caviar lines up against an ordinaty lot in the Queen Anne and nearly got rolled.One of the few times that he has been tested away from the skating rinks in Melbourne
I have seen all the great horses in Australia horses over the last fifty years and Black Caviar is the most mollycoddled so called champion i have seen.
Can anyone on this site name another great Australian chanpiopn that has been so mollycoddled? Then name the horse please.
I can not think of one. I certainly wasn't Vain. The only freak i have seen on an Australian ractrack in fifty years.
I am not sure how many races you watched tilt...but I never saw her race against a 3 legged horse.
How many times did the other horses travel to the other side of the world in the off season and win, with a broken leg nevertheless.
I think tilt-head has got his legs mixed up.
Is it a Risk to Mate with Frankel?
Could be a Dud.
Could be a Dud.
Congratulations AFL. You've managed to make an entire post without a c+p from the Socialist Forum website. Keep it up son!!
Frankel never ever left his own backyard and dodged every top class horse going around and wouldn't even travel across the channel to the Arc and you have the audacity to call Black Caviar mollycoddled.
BC has never dodged anything, she's even raced when injured and at the end of her tether after a long and arduous campaign and still beat a genuine superstar sprinter in Moonlight Cloud after having travelled halfway around the world to do so.
She's been to every major racing state in Australia with the exception of WA and set Group 1 handicap weight carrying records won countless WFA events and smashed ones of the best sprinter in Australia for years in Hay List who in any other era would have ranked as one of our all time great sprinters.
BC thrashes pointlessly Ortensia every time it goes around and Ortensia chalked up two international Group 1's during her last prep and the horses who finish down the track behind her floundering in her wake just keep on winning i.e. Shamexpress, beaten a furlong by Black Caviar in the lightning when she broke the Flemington 1000m track record first up which had stood for more than two decades, then comes out and wins our best sprint the Group 1 Newmarket Handicap at its next start.
BC has never dodged anything, she's even raced when injured and at the end of her tether after a long and arduous campaign and still beat a genuine superstar sprinter in Moonlight Cloud after having travelled halfway around the world to do so.
She's been to every major racing state in Australia with the exception of WA and set Group 1 handicap weight carrying records won countless WFA events and smashed ones of the best sprinter in Australia for years in Hay List who in any other era would have ranked as one of our all time great sprinters.
BC thrashes pointlessly Ortensia every time it goes around and Ortensia chalked up two international Group 1's during her last prep and the horses who finish down the track behind her floundering in her wake just keep on winning i.e. Shamexpress, beaten a furlong by Black Caviar in the lightning when she broke the Flemington 1000m track record first up which had stood for more than two decades, then comes out and wins our best sprint the Group 1 Newmarket Handicap at its next start.
Lets Elope I should not have even mentioned Frankel. But many Australians wanted to compare the two before the Queen Anne . Frankel is from another planet . Yes i would have liked to see Frankel race in the Arc. But Frankel did race from 7f to 1/5-16ths of a mile He was in the same mould as Vain which won 1200 metre races by won races by ten and twelve lenghths. Something Black Caviar has never done. Black Caviar is one dimentional. Let her go and she won't go much faster. She can't beat quality horses by ten and twelve lenghts the way Vain and Frankel did.
She simply does not have same brilliant acceleration.
All i want is the name of another horse that raced in Australia of so called champion standing that has had such a protected and mollycoddled career.In my view Black Caviar always looked like she would run 1600. She was five years old before she raced once over 1400. Powderpuff.
Like i said Vain never looked like running a mile and yet as an early three year old with up to ten pound over wfa, was thrown in against the best sprinter milers in the land like Black Onyx and Daryl's Joy. Daryl's Joy then went to America and broke Tullochs record for a mile and half. The horses Vain met were superior to the class and depth of horses that Black Caviar is meeting week after week.
Anyway back to my original question. Can anyone name a more mollycoddled protected so called champion in the histoy of Australian racing than Black Caviar?????????????????????
I can't think of one
So was it Vain
Manikato
Luskin Star
Takeover Target
Sunline
Tulloch
Tobin Bronze
Pharlap
Ajax
Kingston town.
Gunsynd
Bernborough
Or dozens of others.
Come on give me a name.
She simply does not have same brilliant acceleration.
All i want is the name of another horse that raced in Australia of so called champion standing that has had such a protected and mollycoddled career.In my view Black Caviar always looked like she would run 1600. She was five years old before she raced once over 1400. Powderpuff.
Like i said Vain never looked like running a mile and yet as an early three year old with up to ten pound over wfa, was thrown in against the best sprinter milers in the land like Black Onyx and Daryl's Joy. Daryl's Joy then went to America and broke Tullochs record for a mile and half. The horses Vain met were superior to the class and depth of horses that Black Caviar is meeting week after week.
Anyway back to my original question. Can anyone name a more mollycoddled protected so called champion in the histoy of Australian racing than Black Caviar?????????????????????
I can't think of one
So was it Vain
Manikato
Luskin Star
Takeover Target
Sunline
Tulloch
Tobin Bronze
Pharlap
Ajax
Kingston town.
Gunsynd
Bernborough
Or dozens of others.
Come on give me a name.
Congratulations KDR you managed to make an entire post without a c+p from the bowells of depravity. Keep it up.
Mr Elope, as the saying goes "you can't educate fools" tilt10 just by his name has already tilted 10 times, so its a bit unkind of you to tilt an 11th time. I notice he had no response to BC winning a G1 over 1400 then backing up 7 days later and winning a G1 over 1000m. How many horses in the world are capable of doing that? She's also won more G1s than Frankel has had starts, but he calls that molycoddled. WD tilt11
AFL
AFL
I really think we should all give Tilt the benefit of the doubt. Its quite obvious to me,that at some stage in his life, he has been unlucky enough to have been affected by a sharp blow to his cranium.
This would explain why he posts absolute rubbish,and also why his head is stuck permanently at right angles to his body
.Hence the name Tilt
This would explain why he posts absolute rubbish,and also why his head is stuck permanently at right angles to his body.Hence the name Tilt
hey tilt...i guess winning a group 1 7f race and fronting up 7 days later against the 2nd best sprinter in the world ( hay list ) in the group 1 lightning stakes and not only winning it, runs 31 sec for 600m and a sub 10 sec (9.98 ) at the business end is that of a average champion of its era?
i assume you are a pom ?
i assume you are a pom ?
tell u wat..Shae Shae was impressive last night at Maydan..no sprinter in the world,would of beaten it,broke the track record..speed machine ..
Still no horse. Give me a name.
Come on Mugsy you are a racing legend, surely you must have a string of champions that have raced over 1200
and only over 1400 once that have been more mollycoddled and protected.. Think
Come on Mugsy you are a racing legend, surely you must have a string of champions that have raced over 1200
and only over 1400 once that have been more mollycoddled and protected.. Think
Hey Mugsy i told you Black Caviar was overrated before the Queen Anne. You kept mouthing off about what a champion she was. I suppose you kept reading those stories in the paper about how she was better than Pha Lap. Funny didn't hear a word from you after the race. "Better than Frankel". Give me a break.
tilt10 • March 31, 2013 3:56 AM BST
Hey Mugsy i told you Black Caviar was overrated before the Queen Anne
First tilt10 says BC has never raced over 1 mile, then he says she raced in the Queen Anne which is run over 1 mile
She has never raced beyond 1400m so maybe tilt can tell us when she lined up in the Queen Anne?
Hey Mugsy i told you Black Caviar was overrated before the Queen Anne
First tilt10 says BC has never raced over 1 mile, then he says she raced in the Queen Anne which is run over 1 mile
She has never raced beyond 1400m so maybe tilt can tell us when she lined up in the Queen Anne?
Please. Frankel travelled around 1500km in his race career. Black Caviar over 20,000km. So You Think, from memory was up over 45,000km travelled to race. You may remember Frankel chose to race in the 200k 8f race and dodge the 300k 10f race because SYT was in it. Didn't move up to 10f til he retired.
Mollycoddled? rotflmfao. BC was taken to England when she should have been spelling, to race in a no win situation. That was a race for the owners, had nothing to do with mollycoddling her, in fact it was quite the opposite. The trainer was under instructions to run her and he had no choice but to do so, even though it was against his better judgement.
She is also a mare that has had constant injuries. She makes money by running and winning. She doesn't make extra money for winning by 10 lengths, so why bother, when all it does is decrease the longevity of her career.
It is ok for Frankel to choose to race donkeys and push out to win by 5+ lengths, because he was retired at 4 and only wanted to run enough for a stud career. Never seen a horse protected as much as him. All they really achieved, was delaying his stud career by 12 months, because in the last 12 months, all he did was race the same races, against the same horses, as he did the year before. His stud fee decreased if anything, and he ran around for peanuts, dodging all the major races, and all the opportunities that racing in Europe offer that isn't available to the rest of the world, in the close proximity of all the neighbouring countries.
In fact BC was put under duress to race in races across country ( a real country, not England which you could near spit across), simply to get her ready for a trip to England, to race in a race her trainer knew she should never have even bothered with.
Hardly being moddycoddled.
Mollycoddled? rotflmfao. BC was taken to England when she should have been spelling, to race in a no win situation. That was a race for the owners, had nothing to do with mollycoddling her, in fact it was quite the opposite. The trainer was under instructions to run her and he had no choice but to do so, even though it was against his better judgement.
She is also a mare that has had constant injuries. She makes money by running and winning. She doesn't make extra money for winning by 10 lengths, so why bother, when all it does is decrease the longevity of her career.
It is ok for Frankel to choose to race donkeys and push out to win by 5+ lengths, because he was retired at 4 and only wanted to run enough for a stud career. Never seen a horse protected as much as him. All they really achieved, was delaying his stud career by 12 months, because in the last 12 months, all he did was race the same races, against the same horses, as he did the year before. His stud fee decreased if anything, and he ran around for peanuts, dodging all the major races, and all the opportunities that racing in Europe offer that isn't available to the rest of the world, in the close proximity of all the neighbouring countries.
In fact BC was put under duress to race in races across country ( a real country, not England which you could near spit across), simply to get her ready for a trip to England, to race in a race her trainer knew she should never have even bothered with.
Hardly being moddycoddled.
Tilt clearly has his head permanently stuck up his own posterior.
tilt, tell me why frankel is known worldwide outside england as "the cotton wool kid"
you remind me of that guy who reckons he is straight but he's dyck is gay
you remind me of that guy who reckons he is straight but he's dyck is gay
How Do We Claim Such Massive Profits?
We are live at Yarra Valley today for members to start this week off again. I hope it was a big as last week with 15,000% - 20,000% profit.
How do we claim such massive profits?
We play the exotics mainly on trifectas and pick 4's and that is all about the worry about, winners of course come on top or value runners in our 5 horse selections and other exotics.
Win, place, exactors, quinellas I really don't worry too much about in my stats unless something is huge.
It is impossible for me to spread sheets all the combinatins and have given up as would take me hours every day.
Trifecta:
Here is a percentage of profit when a trifecta comes in No.'s 1-2-3-4-5 costs $60 to box up those horses and less if I call banker. Trifecta pays $660, costs members $60 profit is $600 or 1000%.
Pick 4's
To box up 5 horses in the pick 4 it costs $120.00. If the pick 4 pays $2120 it has costs you $120, profit is 1,666%.
Miss a trifecta and pick's costs 200%, members of course have flexi bet options.
So that is how it works and at the end of the week we show healthy profits nearly every week.
I am streamlining our calls on shorter priced combinations so that if the dividends looks short. I will call 1-2 bankers or single banker so that your percentages of wins are considerably higher.
We are ontrack to show 100,000% profit or more, by Xmas, fingers crossed.
We are live at Yarra Valley today for members to start this week off again. I hope it was a big as last week with 15,000% - 20,000% profit.
How do we claim such massive profits?
We play the exotics mainly on trifectas and pick 4's and that is all about the worry about, winners of course come on top or value runners in our 5 horse selections and other exotics.
Win, place, exactors, quinellas I really don't worry too much about in my stats unless something is huge.
It is impossible for me to spread sheets all the combinatins and have given up as would take me hours every day.
Trifecta:
Here is a percentage of profit when a trifecta comes in No.'s 1-2-3-4-5 costs $60 to box up those horses and less if I call banker. Trifecta pays $660, costs members $60 profit is $600 or 1000%.
Pick 4's
To box up 5 horses in the pick 4 it costs $120.00. If the pick 4 pays $2120 it has costs you $120, profit is 1,666%.
Miss a trifecta and pick's costs 200%, members of course have flexi bet options.
So that is how it works and at the end of the week we show healthy profits nearly every week.
I am streamlining our calls on shorter priced combinations so that if the dividends looks short. I will call 1-2 bankers or single banker so that your percentages of wins are considerably higher.
We are ontrack to show 100,000% profit or more, by Xmas, fingers crossed.
Winning Made Easier.
It is no secret that I am working on pioneering software (Scanfit) that punters take a photo from their mobile phone of all runners in the next race from the stables or
parade yard, send to be scanned for fitness identification and punters will know how fit every horses are in the upcoming race.
Broadcasting options are also on the cards.
This will change wagering forever and punters will back many more winners for centuries.
Thoroughbred, harness and greyhounds.
Jim
It is no secret that I am working on pioneering software (Scanfit) that punters take a photo from their mobile phone of all runners in the next race from the stables or
parade yard, send to be scanned for fitness identification and punters will know how fit every horses are in the upcoming race.
Broadcasting options are also on the cards.
This will change wagering forever and punters will back many more winners for centuries.
Thoroughbred, harness and greyhounds.
Jim
I think you will get close to 1.30 about her in the T.J.Smith
i heard it on good authority (my wifes cousins uncles niece who once slept with one of the owners cousins brother) that she will come to brisbane and then mebark on another tilt at england.
Still sitting at $1.17 - has to almost be a lay at that price imo
Not a bad field she is up against, the inside draw could be a little tricky - a little risk this time I think
In saying that, I hope she wins - she is an out and out champ and I'd love to see her remain unbeaten record
Not a bad field she is up against, the inside draw could be a little tricky - a little risk this time I think
In saying that, I hope she wins - she is an out and out champ and I'd love to see her remain unbeaten record
she beat 9 group 1 winners last time she won the TJ Smith and a in form haylist and she's going better than ever. lay all you like
Who is tilt10, please
the old SC might have to come out of his shell if this discussion keeps going
the old SC might have to come out of his shell if this discussion keeps going
I would like to see Black Caviar race for another 2 years lightly. take her to US , a turf race in Dubai or whatever no she appears more robust and mature.
Frankel was protected as all hell, I would see his progeny progress before getting too carried away with a service with BC
Frankel was protected as all hell, I would see his progeny progress before getting too carried away with a service with BC
BC is great for racing and the punt, to rare a commodity for racing promotion to cut it short and take her from the tracks yet IMO.
In fact I am surprised racing bodies haven't sponsored her to keep going for a little while yet!!
In fact I am surprised racing bodies haven't sponsored her to keep going for a little while yet!!
Bel Sprinter must be a show at those odds. BC last run ran on a Good 3. The 3yos earlier in the night ran nearly 2 lengths quicker. Obviously tempo different so not saying anything about her losing that race. But as impressive as a 4 length win is, the time certainly was nothing special at all.
Bel Sprinter came home in 32.9 last start after breathing issues were rectified. Fast run pace obviously, but still an impressive run.
Black Caviar is a super impressive horse, but I certainly don't believe she wins as easily as she looks to. She has a high cruising speed, and just because she is pulling up on the line because she is in front so far doesn't equate to her having heaps left in the tank.
I think she is beatable here. If Bel Sprinter can be within 5 lengths of her at the 4-500, then she could go down.
Obviously I expect her to win, but happy at 1.19 to have a lay. Not getting too heavily involved since it is probably madness to take her on given her record, but have a bit on Bel Sprinter to win, and 500 only against BC. Just think she is too short, and vulnerable.
Bel Sprinter came home in 32.9 last start after breathing issues were rectified. Fast run pace obviously, but still an impressive run.
Black Caviar is a super impressive horse, but I certainly don't believe she wins as easily as she looks to. She has a high cruising speed, and just because she is pulling up on the line because she is in front so far doesn't equate to her having heaps left in the tank.
I think she is beatable here. If Bel Sprinter can be within 5 lengths of her at the 4-500, then she could go down.
Obviously I expect her to win, but happy at 1.19 to have a lay. Not getting too heavily involved since it is probably madness to take her on given her record, but have a bit on Bel Sprinter to win, and 500 only against BC. Just think she is too short, and vulnerable.
nah it will not be a cake walk.
can get beaten , you never know.
lot of stakeholders will want the run to continue though!!
can get beaten , you never know.
lot of stakeholders will want the run to continue though!!
unbelievable, same lot jumped on board knocking the greatest mare of all time heading into last years lightning stakes dropping back from 7 furlongs to 5 furlongs in the space of a week where records showed no horse in history had won even a saturday meet over these 2 distances in a week and you had hay list in his prime as was Buffering. what happened? she sustained 800 m of pure pressure on the field breaking haylists heart running a sub 10 sec ( 9.98 )from the 6 to the 400
she has a stride no horse can match
some of you guys are unbelievable.
she has a stride no horse can match
some of you guys are unbelievable.
Unless I am mistaken megsy, now is not last year. ???
I certainly don't expect her to lose, but happy to take her on as I think she is unders.
Just relax. Not worth getting worked up for..
I certainly don't expect her to lose, but happy to take her on as I think she is unders.
Just relax. Not worth getting worked up for..
I don't think she will lead Mr Chocolate Eclair, but I do think Nolen will come out running and hopefully be able to get to outside of Rain Affair as he will want to get off rail so they don't sandwich him. Think RA comes out running, if worst happens and there is an upset I think it can only be Bel Sprinter who will relish the strong pace
I think Black Caviar is vulnerable at Randwick tomorrow. I will take her on. Cheers
you **** are ****g deluded, how the **** they going to beat her? she runs to her own gallop and it's proven to be far too strong of a gallop to any horse she's ever come across
this thread is full of guessers
BJT: you don't expect her to lose, yet you are laying her
GUESSER PERSONIFIED.
and yes ****, the old SC is back baby!
this thread is full of guessers
BJT: you don't expect her to lose, yet you are laying her
GUESSER PERSONIFIED.
and yes ****, the old SC is back baby!
I don't expect her to lose either but I'd be happy to lay her if i thought the price was wrong.
FCUK IT, I WILL BEAT YOU FORUM...
I expect all SUB 1.20 shots to win as they are probable. I still am happy to take her on at those odds as I think BS is some sort of a horse, and now with breathing issues under control, I think we have all seen what he is capable of.
I expect all SUB 1.20 shots to win as they are probable. I still am happy to take her on at those odds as I think BS is some sort of a horse, and now with breathing issues under control, I think we have all seen what he is capable of.
Hay List to run a place at $3.20 or something like that is unbelievable value, he'd eat this lot except for the obvious one, will be much better for the run and his effort last start was not that bad
Hay List is unbeaten 2nd up, I don't think he can beat the champ but surely taking 3-1 is much better then laying something that has never lost before
Hay List is 3s a drum cause hes gone-save you money..ps--Wanna make some easy money--Ellerslie race 7-no6--take any odds
Thanks me later
Thanks me later
Cause I aint done anything that needs thanking---yet
Tally of G1 winners to be left in BLACK CAVIAR's wake rises to 39 following her breathtaking win in the TJ Smith.
This is a little bit more evidence of just how good Black Caviar was: Today's Group 1 win at Longchamp in the Quatar Prix de la Foret by Moonlight Cloud - the mare Black Caviar beat at Ascot when BC was injured and given a poor, misjudged ride by her jockey, yet she still got up with another shake of the reins to beat the turbo-like acceleration of Moonlight Cloud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwDjjVRz1JI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwDjjVRz1JI
PS - there's no commentary, just the race itself. Keep your eyes on the one who is plum last from the start.
As i've said before Ascot was Black Caviar's finest hour.....but over today's trip Moonlight cloud would have slaughtered her.
As i've said before Ascot was Black Caviar's finest hour but over today's trip Moonlight cloud would have slaughtered her.
H R Puffinstuff, another Nostradamus
Are they cloning them over there? ... or is there just a production line of serial wannkers?
H R Puffinstuff, another Nostradamus Are they cloning them over there? ... or is there just a production line of serial wannkers?
and after the win at ascot they claimed she beat a falied miler, how things have change
SPOOOON its the rohypnol over there, UK'S full of em
Interesting to note the production line's producing them in several different colors now....
Dark brown's the most popular apparently
Dark brown's the most popular apparently
Oh Dear....Racism rears it's ugly head yet again on this forum.....shameful post Spooon.
Some people are incapable of reasoned debate.
Some people are incapable of reasoned debate.
Seen anything better than Black Caviar this week Mugsy......
top farrier dont give up your day job sniffing horses hoofs , drunk again ?
the mad irishman
the mad irishman
anyone with half a brain cell knows BC was injured and conservatively 10L off her game at Ascot (a line through Soul, not in the same postcode over here yet within 4L at Ascot), those that choose to accept this as a guide to her real ability need help....then again dont seek help just keep betting on betfair as they will be fleeced 
Injured my boll0x...........a grade four tear ffs.....i was more injured the last time i cut my toe nails........gullible fools.
......a grade four tear ffs.....i was more injured the last time i cut my toe nails........gullible fools.
so why else was she 10L off her game - with Soul the reliable formline?
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