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I see there is no mention in the announcement, that Betfair will return to the 5% maximum commission on Australian racing.
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My thoughts EXACTLY Castrion. The 6.5% MBR will probably be continued in jurisdictions where the 1.5% isn't even applicable. Nice grab for more cash by betty imo.
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1.01 punters must be in a panic.
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you're right whoopi. I make it if you back a winner at 1.01 in a t/o jurisdiction no-body wins.
If anyone is out there doing the maths, happy to compare notes. I have it that if you're on 6.5% and backing outright, you will pay turnover tax at 1.47. If you're on a discount of say 30% you'd pay at 1.66. In other words at 6.5% a 1.46 shot is 1.4301. Yet if you back it at 1.48 it's 1.4368 :) |
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sorry, i'm an idiot. Meant to compare it to 1.47 you'd get less than 1.46.
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this will really affect the exchange, traders as well are finished in Aus, you can't make money from trading anymore in Australia, it would be impossible.
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Will have an effect on traders in QLD, NSW, VIC. Turnover will drop in those 3 states, but increase in the other states and territories.
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Does anyone know if the new charges would count towards any premium charge liability for the week?
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doesn't count towards your premium charges at all, it is completely seperate charge
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I asked that Schnyder and he said no. But I'm not sure he really knew to be fair. I'd hope so.
Premium charges aside (which is pretty hard to do..:( ) there's only one trader that can come back to NSW. That's the lay to back or back to lay trader who works with a wide margin. The one-tick etc is finished. As they already were. |
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Josh
Is that a bad thing. The liquidity supplied by traders is highly overrated IMO. |
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this is a usage charge not a profit charge, this is a charge for using the exchange, the only way you can't get charges is if you make enough profit to cover the 1.2& of your back bet, or if you lay,
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I meant the only way to avoid charges is to make enought profit to cover the back bet
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I think you're right Castiron. Although didn't believe it once. I guess when Vic comes in we'll get the best guide of all.
Mumma - isn't a standard "usage charge" part of "total charges" anyway? (eg, like data fees). I could make a case t/o should be included there too. https://account.betfair.com/regpay-myaccount/premiumcharge/summary.html |
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'a turnover charge will be applied to a very small group of customers who meet specific criteria.'
thats what they said when premium charge came in. |
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Amazing how every new charge only gets a 'very small' amount of customers. The 6.5% MBR only affected a very small amount of people as well..
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.........and no mention of any tool to allow someone to see where they stand in relation to the charge at any time. Even worse than the PC as it's so complex.
Now if you do a bit of all the types of betting (straight win/straight lay/trade) you have no idea what you will be charged till after the fact. |
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Betfaire trading is finished here, there will be no trading anywhere by the end of the year because all states will adopt the same charge.
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Dont say you was not warned
Betfair has turned into a joke |
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I am not sure this charge is really their fault nick
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I am a bit surprised that the UK racing has not tried to adopt the same idea as our mob. with the large amount of money going on the exchange they could make a fortune from betfair and the bookies.
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more complicated than PC! i have no clue about PC.
I put aside 30% to pay it this week & didnt get charged. Not that i'm unhappy but just i have no clue where i stand until i get the final result Tuesday. |
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Joel they did themselves no favors in my eyes when the increased commission rates across all states and codes
even ones with the gross profit model They have handled the whole situation very poor from the word go in my eyes So it is now a user pays situation fair enough BUT DO WE GET OUR OLD COMMISSION STRUCTURE BACK???? |
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No
It's now user pays and everyone else pays a bit too ![]() |
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I can't be bothered reading the conditions & trying to get my head around it, but is it possible to lose for a week but get a turnover charge? if so BF might have to hire some debt collectors.
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kye i'd say the answer is yes.
Say you backed 10 1.01 winners on turnover of $1000 each, then you lose $1000 with an implied commission of 3% on the losing turnover, the result is you're well behind but getting charged turnover tax. |
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of course backing 1.01 winner is pointless if your slugged on the turnover anyway
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Kye/Silver great points (sadly). You have to be a mathematician to work out your future strategies (PC, T/o etc..) Sure some (of us) will survive but this game is getting so difficult.
Does anyone know officially that the tax isn't part of 'other charges' when it comes to the PC calculation? |
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I can't say I've noticed any difference in liquidity since those of us who were barred from trading were barred.
Likewise the increased commission didn't really make any difference. I'm having no trouble getting set. I suspect unfortunately that we'll just have to move on and work around it. I don't think liquidity will change. I just wish Betfair would target their marketing at mugs in TABS. 90% of them have never heard of Betfair! |
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Can you imagine a new big punter coming on here have a stack of $50k bets at 1.01. At end of week he could be jumping up & down at winning $20k only to get a phone call from BF saying he owes $40k in turnover charge
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& Kye the sympathy factor would be ZERO, reap what you sow & all that
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whoopi
Id say it has already gone down on the markets i look at |
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whoopi, the increased commission will slowly erode the liquidity. You probably won't notice in first 3-4 months. Every dollar taken out of punters hands is another dollar less they can bet with. Some of the long term winners will slowly become long term losers & give the game away. i think it will impact big in long run.
& of course this new charge will just add to the problem. |
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interesting they chose 50 markets as the cut off - I guess one option to avoid it, for those that have to, is to bet on less than 50 markets - you will get a few days off each week to spend with your family and friends
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it might actually push the amount of layers up in the run which might give backers better odds, basically if you stay above 1.4 to 1.7 depending on your % of discount you shouldn't ever pay the charge, however that is easier said then done.
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The problem with Betfair is they tried to do the right thing, I thought a countries rulings or legislation could only be enforced inside the borders of the country which the legislation was written. Betfair didn't use their internet advantage enough. Why didn't Betfair continue to use Australian race fields names and just stay out of obtaining a license. I don't like Betfairs motto of obey the authorities when they are an internet technology. Australian Law has no jurisdiction in the U.K whatsover. Run it from the UK. This is the perfect time for **** to up it's services to Australian racing and stick your thinger to racing NSW. Technology will only advance and sadly no one in the world will use Betfair to profit from Australian racing and sadly Australian Racing will not get paid. I can't believe that one stupid, racing NSW member could stuff up the racing industry this badly. Betfair and Exchanges are the future of online gambling, do you think any member of the iPad generation is going to go into one of those disgusting TAB outlets, absolutely not. IF this ruling stands this isn't just the end for Betfair but Racing in Australia might not survive the next 100 years, but what does Peter care, he only cares about the next 20.
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Flaw in your argument is that they can make it illegal for the user in Australia to use the service.
Most of us don't want to be criminals |
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BF Australia appear to have given up. Our only hope is basically they give up their license and trade from a "gamble happy nation" where they can trade to their hearts content. And if they don't, no doubt somebody will.
The message I got, was there was too much money spent on court already, so there would be no further action. This is the action from a shot duck. And I think we all knew that when NSW trading continued, rather than a boycott at all costs to prove to other states to not take that tax on board. Make no mistake, liquidity will be effected. Hugely. SA will be the new betting capital of Australia. People can say whatever they like about traders making no difference to liquidity, but the reality is seriously different. Trading on NSW markets has been rife since the beginning of this charge. There were minimal people getting the call to not trade, and there were plenty still going. I have a few trades on NSW where I didn't get a call, mostly out of instinct. Without wanting to "blasphimy", old BF endorsed(at least at one point) badger himself(just because some people believe his hype of some sort of trader) is advertising his services of trading showing his trading profits on NSW markets, showing that trading wasn't outlawed, just frowned upon by certain people. With trading now outlawed, or at least restricted to 50 markets per week, we will see a big decline in liquidity on Aus racing for all states concerned. Within the next month, liquidity will be ridiculously low. Punters will leave, traders move on to different endeavours. Make no mistake, this is a big thing, a big call, and big proof that BF Australia is doing no more than cashing in until the cattle has all been slaughtered and then they will simply shut up shop to protect their shareholders. Unless we can get in play betting on sports happening soon, it may be too late, and betting will be left to the mugs. The great will survive as their margins are so big, but anybody that came out of the woodwork when BF turned up (such as myself), will be gone and buried, unless they can adapt and evolve. That is obviously the plan, but easier said than done. See what happens I guess. |
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In That race at Melton just run
60 K matched when they jumped 82 K matched after IN Play this is with 1.30 FAV in the race id say 12 months ago that there would have been 100 K matched when they jumped on that type of race |