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25 Jun 12
00:18
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02 Jan 09
90% of you would be blaming nolan for her defeat and not -
* over trained
* too fresh
* muscle tears
* not good enough
and you could add using that silly bloody Grant Hackett swim suit
* over trained
* too fresh
* muscle tears
* not good enough
and you could add using that silly bloody Grant Hackett swim suit
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If she had torn muscles in running, how could you not take this into consideration?
The jockey was conflicted betweeen looking after the horse and looking after the race.
How many other horses for Moody that he has ridden, is the implication given that first priority is to look after the horse, then the race?
Not saying he said it to him, but that is the implication of what the pressure does. imo.
The jockey was conflicted betweeen looking after the horse and looking after the race.
How many other horses for Moody that he has ridden, is the implication given that first priority is to look after the horse, then the race?
Not saying he said it to him, but that is the implication of what the pressure does. imo.
Now your just been silly
We all know the swim suit got thrashed at the Hackett House Melee.
lucky it wasn't a defeat the BF forum was already on overload.The cyberspace sight of all the lurkers/anything Oz bashers/trying desperatly to remember their numerous passwords for the
alias they hide behind would be a sight to behold.
One thing that was proved again (not that it was needed)
The UK Coverage,for mine was F****** Great The reception the English people showed was to be acknowledged,commentators,on-Air presenters had nothing but positive things to say.
The English people (on masse) took to the mare in Hero style accolades, they turned out just to see her as they do here.
The racing enormous as is always the case at Ascot Carnival.
Did everyone notice the First Time in 2 weeks that Queen Liz had a smile, yep you guessed it.
So what's the one thing proved again?
Those that sit behind a PC taking pot shots have personal issues.We know it, they know it, they deny it.
In Real Time its all Cyber Junk but sadly in Real Time the attacks/insults/demeaning reflect a person in need.
We all know the swim suit got thrashed at the Hackett House Melee.
lucky it wasn't a defeat the BF forum was already on overload.The cyberspace sight of all the lurkers/anything Oz bashers/trying desperatly to remember their numerous passwords for the
alias they hide behind would be a sight to behold.
One thing that was proved again (not that it was needed)
The UK Coverage,for mine was F****** Great The reception the English people showed was to be acknowledged,commentators,on-Air presenters had nothing but positive things to say.
The English people (on masse) took to the mare in Hero style accolades, they turned out just to see her as they do here.
The racing enormous as is always the case at Ascot Carnival.
Did everyone notice the First Time in 2 weeks that Queen Liz had a smile, yep you guessed it.
So what's the one thing proved again?
Those that sit behind a PC taking pot shots have personal issues.We know it, they know it, they deny it.
In Real Time its all Cyber Junk but sadly in Real Time the attacks/insults/demeaning reflect a person in need.
he no more felt a torn muscle or a bruise than i did
some injury's come to light after they cool down and don't necessarily affect them in the run
only nolan knows why he dropped his hands 50m from the post (if he even knew where it was).
some injury's come to light after they cool down and don't necessarily affect them in the run
only nolan knows why he dropped his hands 50m from the post (if he even knew where it was).
Didn't mean that i thought he detected it.
Just meant that had it been any other Moody horse racing in Melb, he would have ridden it to the line. imo
Just meant that had it been any other Moody horse racing in Melb, he would have ridden it to the line. imo
i agree with LIH
... unless of course it was a torn muscle like a hammy where you ... collapse immediately
but she did not collapse immediately .. in fact she extended again the last 25m .. and THAT final extension stretch 'after the easing' ... might well have been the muscle yank that showed up the day after
nolan had a clear look to the right ... after slipping 2 lengths clear of the horse outside him ... he did not look to the inside and almost got his pants pulled down
our champ BC imho ... 'lifted' for the jock under his final encouragement ... for the courageous & long to be remembered ... victory ...
but only she will know what really happened ... and they dont talk
... unless of course it was a torn muscle like a hammy where you ... collapse immediately
but she did not collapse immediately .. in fact she extended again the last 25m .. and THAT final extension stretch 'after the easing' ... might well have been the muscle yank that showed up the day after
nolan had a clear look to the right ... after slipping 2 lengths clear of the horse outside him ... he did not look to the inside and almost got his pants pulled down
our champ BC imho ... 'lifted' for the jock under his final encouragement ... for the courageous & long to be remembered ... victory ...
but only she will know what really happened ... and they dont talk
stewards inquired into his riding when he stopped riding the mare - he made no mention what so ever of her feeling sore
Just meant that had it been any other Moody horse racing in Melb, he would have ridden it to the line. imo
and agree completely there AFL ...
and agree completely there AFL ...
why most poms dont realise, she has a history of ailments and each run risks injury, did she not miss a huge part of a year with a simular but more severe injury as a 3 yr old?
as quoted in the heraldsun.
Given the vagaries of travel, Nolen's riding blunder and the injuries the mare sustained during the race, the Diamond Jubilee Stakes may now go down as one of her greatest of her 22 wins.
as quoted in the heraldsun.
Given the vagaries of travel, Nolen's riding blunder and the injuries the mare sustained during the race, the Diamond Jubilee Stakes may now go down as one of her greatest of her 22 wins.
I posted on another thread how a friend who watched the race with me who knows zero about horse racing made comment 400 out that her front legs weren't extending at all, blind freddy could see she was sore.
it might just be the tv angles too ... all the horses over there dont look to be stretching right out from the 400m to the 200m ... as i thought that also watching her
but closer to the line 125m ... where the 'tv angle' becomes less severe ... and the extensions really begin ... they all look normal again ?
but closer to the line 125m ... where the 'tv angle' becomes less severe ... and the extensions really begin ... they all look normal again ?
'looking after the horse' seems a noble thing to do and dresses up the racing industry for those that love the warm and fuzzy side of life but realistically you dont travel to the other side of the world, spent 4 or 5 weeks training for one of the biggest events on the world racing calendar in front of millions of people who have invested 10s of millions of dollars on you winning the race, and then take it easy in the last 50 metres and chance being beaten. She is a race horse when all said and done and should had been flogged to the line if necessary and any problems dealt with after the race.
Imagine if Bradman's final duck at The Oval in 1948 – the one that left his Test average on 99.94 – was the result not of the ball hitting his stumps, but a rash call from the other end and a run-out. The name of Arthur Morris would have become the most cursed in the history of Australian sport. At Ascot on Saturday, however, Luke Nolen very nearly contrived a parallel infamy.
In the event, his harrowing moment of complacency on Black Caviar – easing her down even as Moonlight Cloud began to pounce in the final stages of the
Diamond Jubilee Stakes – was salvaged by a fortune none could begrudge. For what kind of reward might it have seemed, for all the ambition and adventure that brought her here, had the judge's photo failed to extend her unbeaten record to 22?
It turns out that there were unsuspected grounds for Black Caviar's failure to justify Nolen's assumption she could "coast" home. In his initial mortification, the jockey speculated that she had failed to sustain her momentum over a much stiffer track than those they have always cruised round at home. Yesterday, however, it emerged that Black Caviar had torn muscles in her hindquarters, almost certainly during the race. Combined with the vivid folly of her rider, and the hidden attrition of travel, her bruised physique warrants a fresh assessment of a performance that chastened thousands of Australians who had introduced a mood of boisterous confidence to this very formal, very English milieu. Far from being an anticlimax, the first real struggle of her career perhaps represented its greatest triumph.
Whoops and cheers had followed the giant mare around the parade ring, where the salmon pink and black roe spots of Nolen's silks proliferated in ties, scarves and jewellery. Jockeys without a ride in the race stood on chairs in the weighing room, peering above the top hats for a glimpse of the phenomenon. However formidable the mare's physique, they could not have been impressed with a coat that gave ominous physical expression to her physiological dislocation. This corner of the northern hemisphere may not be enjoying much of a summer, but Black Caviar's hirsute aspect stressed that she had been brought here from the depths of her own winter. This was not just Black Caviar against the best of Europe; in a fairly literal sense, this was Black Caviar contra mundum.
In some respects, the denouement would uncomfortably evoke the first and only defeat of another great mare, Zenyatta, in her 20th and final start in the 2010 Breeders' Cup. On that occasion, the post came one stride too late, and Mike Smith faced far more recrimination than was his due. This time, however, it was Moonlight Cloud who needed one more stride, and Nolen duly gained an exoneration he scarcely deserved.
Poor Smith had sobbed in contrition, claiming all the blame. Nolen, in fairness, was ashen and humbled as he sat beside Peter Moody, Black Caviar's trainer, at the press conference. Moody is a big, plain-talking guy, and Nolen must have quailed inwardly, as proceedings came to an end, when the arm of a giant morning coat coiled around his neck. But Moody was merely pulling him close in a gesture at once relieved and disbelieving, affectionate and exasperated. Yesterday the trainer described Black Caviar as "very tired and flat" as she prepared to enter quarantine, but the discovery of bruising at least encouraged him to quell talk that she might be nearing the end of the road.
In repeatedly protesting that his "brain fade" should not be the story, meanwhile, Nolen was not seeking exculpation. Just as Zenyatta's winning streak gained deeper meaning only when it was ended in her finest performance, so Black Caviar needed adversity to remind everyone that there had been nothing remotely perfunctory about the previous 21 wins, either.
And that rebuke is worth extending to the inevitable contrasts being drawn with Frankel. The home champion had begun the meeting with a performance that mocked the sort of latent hazards disclosed by Black Caviar. Both passed the post to gasps of amazement: one, by separating himself from the herd by fully 11 lengths; the other, by scrambling home on hooves of clay. Frankel bounded clear, in an outrageous pomp; Black Caviar finished her race in rank indignity, Nolen realising his error and essaying a panicked, final lunge. But it should be remembered how Frankel himself was so nearly undone at this meeting, last year, when the misjudgement of his rider had been both less brazen and less pardonable.
Talk of a match between the pair had always been fairly fatuous. But it seems safe to add that Sir Henry Cecil, Frankel's trainer, will have observed Black Caviar's travails and been confirmed in his determination never to test Frankel in the same way. Little more seems likely to be learnt of his greatness from a defence of the Qipco Sussex Stakes, at Goodwood next month, and while he will at least try a new trip in the Juddmonte International at York, Frankel will never be exposed to the sort of risks embraced by connections of Black Caviar.
Frankel's performance on Tuesday was so dominant that it seems increasingly difficult to believe Camelot will be campaigned with greater intrepidity. For all its historic resonance, and the edifying consequences for the Ladbrokes St Leger, the idea of going for the Triple Crown contains infinitely less risk to the Derby winner's reputation than the possibility of a spanking by Frankel. In the meantime, Camelot is likely to start at very short odds for his home Derby this weekend.
Even on their solitary paths, however, these different champions are mapping out a vintage season. Frankel and Black Caviar between them suppressed due plaudits for John Gosden and William Buick, who shared a momentous meeting with five winners; or for New Approach, the sensational rookie stallion whose progeny won all three juvenile races beyond the minimum trip. We may well have yet another freak on our hands. Unlike Nolen, however, let nobody take anything for granted
In the event, his harrowing moment of complacency on Black Caviar – easing her down even as Moonlight Cloud began to pounce in the final stages of the
Diamond Jubilee Stakes – was salvaged by a fortune none could begrudge. For what kind of reward might it have seemed, for all the ambition and adventure that brought her here, had the judge's photo failed to extend her unbeaten record to 22?
It turns out that there were unsuspected grounds for Black Caviar's failure to justify Nolen's assumption she could "coast" home. In his initial mortification, the jockey speculated that she had failed to sustain her momentum over a much stiffer track than those they have always cruised round at home. Yesterday, however, it emerged that Black Caviar had torn muscles in her hindquarters, almost certainly during the race. Combined with the vivid folly of her rider, and the hidden attrition of travel, her bruised physique warrants a fresh assessment of a performance that chastened thousands of Australians who had introduced a mood of boisterous confidence to this very formal, very English milieu. Far from being an anticlimax, the first real struggle of her career perhaps represented its greatest triumph.
Whoops and cheers had followed the giant mare around the parade ring, where the salmon pink and black roe spots of Nolen's silks proliferated in ties, scarves and jewellery. Jockeys without a ride in the race stood on chairs in the weighing room, peering above the top hats for a glimpse of the phenomenon. However formidable the mare's physique, they could not have been impressed with a coat that gave ominous physical expression to her physiological dislocation. This corner of the northern hemisphere may not be enjoying much of a summer, but Black Caviar's hirsute aspect stressed that she had been brought here from the depths of her own winter. This was not just Black Caviar against the best of Europe; in a fairly literal sense, this was Black Caviar contra mundum.
In some respects, the denouement would uncomfortably evoke the first and only defeat of another great mare, Zenyatta, in her 20th and final start in the 2010 Breeders' Cup. On that occasion, the post came one stride too late, and Mike Smith faced far more recrimination than was his due. This time, however, it was Moonlight Cloud who needed one more stride, and Nolen duly gained an exoneration he scarcely deserved.
Poor Smith had sobbed in contrition, claiming all the blame. Nolen, in fairness, was ashen and humbled as he sat beside Peter Moody, Black Caviar's trainer, at the press conference. Moody is a big, plain-talking guy, and Nolen must have quailed inwardly, as proceedings came to an end, when the arm of a giant morning coat coiled around his neck. But Moody was merely pulling him close in a gesture at once relieved and disbelieving, affectionate and exasperated. Yesterday the trainer described Black Caviar as "very tired and flat" as she prepared to enter quarantine, but the discovery of bruising at least encouraged him to quell talk that she might be nearing the end of the road.
In repeatedly protesting that his "brain fade" should not be the story, meanwhile, Nolen was not seeking exculpation. Just as Zenyatta's winning streak gained deeper meaning only when it was ended in her finest performance, so Black Caviar needed adversity to remind everyone that there had been nothing remotely perfunctory about the previous 21 wins, either.
And that rebuke is worth extending to the inevitable contrasts being drawn with Frankel. The home champion had begun the meeting with a performance that mocked the sort of latent hazards disclosed by Black Caviar. Both passed the post to gasps of amazement: one, by separating himself from the herd by fully 11 lengths; the other, by scrambling home on hooves of clay. Frankel bounded clear, in an outrageous pomp; Black Caviar finished her race in rank indignity, Nolen realising his error and essaying a panicked, final lunge. But it should be remembered how Frankel himself was so nearly undone at this meeting, last year, when the misjudgement of his rider had been both less brazen and less pardonable.
Talk of a match between the pair had always been fairly fatuous. But it seems safe to add that Sir Henry Cecil, Frankel's trainer, will have observed Black Caviar's travails and been confirmed in his determination never to test Frankel in the same way. Little more seems likely to be learnt of his greatness from a defence of the Qipco Sussex Stakes, at Goodwood next month, and while he will at least try a new trip in the Juddmonte International at York, Frankel will never be exposed to the sort of risks embraced by connections of Black Caviar.
Frankel's performance on Tuesday was so dominant that it seems increasingly difficult to believe Camelot will be campaigned with greater intrepidity. For all its historic resonance, and the edifying consequences for the Ladbrokes St Leger, the idea of going for the Triple Crown contains infinitely less risk to the Derby winner's reputation than the possibility of a spanking by Frankel. In the meantime, Camelot is likely to start at very short odds for his home Derby this weekend.
Even on their solitary paths, however, these different champions are mapping out a vintage season. Frankel and Black Caviar between them suppressed due plaudits for John Gosden and William Buick, who shared a momentous meeting with five winners; or for New Approach, the sensational rookie stallion whose progeny won all three juvenile races beyond the minimum trip. We may well have yet another freak on our hands. Unlike Nolen, however, let nobody take anything for granted
If she lost by a nose I'd blame Nolen because he cost he about 0.5l by stopping riding.
There's two factors at play:
a) the margin Nolen cost her. Let's say half a length.
b) how far she raced below her best overall. I reckon it was about 5 lengths, based around intangibles like how she travelled and didn't extend and tangilbes such as the distance to Soul and the formline via Soul / Buffering. Who knows the what, whys and wheres of her racing below her best though. It just happened. A shame.
I still think she's the best sprinter it the world and possibly the best sprinter Australia has ever produced - her times (eased down) and sectionals prove this. But I also think Frankel is the better horse. But admitting that Frankel is the better horse doesn't mean Black Caviar is rubbish, it means she is the second-best horse in the world. Hey, Frankel's fans claim he might be the best ever, so no knock on Black Caviar is she's a length or three behind him!
Although did I read correctly that So You Think's time over the first mile of his Ascot run was quicker than Frankel's race time? What does that say about Frankel's competition?
There's two factors at play:
a) the margin Nolen cost her. Let's say half a length.
b) how far she raced below her best overall. I reckon it was about 5 lengths, based around intangibles like how she travelled and didn't extend and tangilbes such as the distance to Soul and the formline via Soul / Buffering. Who knows the what, whys and wheres of her racing below her best though. It just happened. A shame.
I still think she's the best sprinter it the world and possibly the best sprinter Australia has ever produced - her times (eased down) and sectionals prove this. But I also think Frankel is the better horse. But admitting that Frankel is the better horse doesn't mean Black Caviar is rubbish, it means she is the second-best horse in the world. Hey, Frankel's fans claim he might be the best ever, so no knock on Black Caviar is she's a length or three behind him!
Although did I read correctly that So You Think's time over the first mile of his Ascot run was quicker than Frankel's race time? What does that say about Frankel's competition?
Although did I read correctly that So You Think's time over the first mile of his Ascot run was quicker than Frankel's race time? What does that say about Frankel's competition?
Really?
Well there you go. Frankel isn't all he's cracked up to me. Pity. No, not really.
Go So You Think and Nelly.
Really?
Well there you go. Frankel isn't all he's cracked up to me. Pity. No, not really.
Go So You Think and Nelly.
Nolen brother riding over the Jumps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by5GvPtwnN8&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by5GvPtwnN8&feature=youtu.be
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