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THE CLIMATE CHANGE MYTH that Julia wants us all to pay for

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When: 18 Dec 10 13:48
Jez, you just said

The Rudd-Gillard Government (first term government) lost its majority for good reason wombleoz - I'd suggest your alone in your praise of this hopeless and hapless government.

the government lost it's majority and the ball game has changed, as a result there will be a price on carbon by the end of the year. Just as there would be if Howard had of won the election in 2007 and implemented the policy, Turnbull's policy, they had run with OR id Abbott didn't defeat Turnbull by 1 vote when he took over.
Jez Melb Punter
When: 18 Dec 10 23:05
wombleoz, Howard, Turnbull, Abbott?


Clutching at straws mate.  Relevance?

Ball game changed?  What by doing dirty deals with the Greens?  Bottom line is, days out from the election Gillard said no carbon tax.  After the election its back on the table. 

We all discuss this great big tax on everything on this thread - but the crux is Labor were deceitful on this matter and it underlines an important point.

Not only can they not rollout even the most basic program without disaster but overall, they just can't be trusted.

More Labor
More Waste
More Debt
More Taxes.
When: 19 Dec 10 00:26
Good on you pxb: Obviously the reverse is true with oxygen as you say.Again would be good to see some knowledge and balance from the pollies....but they have costed the amount of revenue from the tax no doubt.

There is only one federal MP with a post graduate science degree, Jensen from here in Perth, and he is an outspoken climate sceptic.
When: 19 Dec 10 01:38
half minus 1 of the Liberals want a price on carbon - get used to it guys it's coming
Canberra bookie
When: 19 Dec 10 01:50

Wombleoz that is absolute rot.

Let me tell you wombleoz, and this is from the REAL WORLD.

This Gillard Labor-Green Coalition can introduce a carbon tax as much as they like and I'm sure you'll get your rocks off every night after its introduced, but, I can assure you my friend, me, the Liberals and millions of other Australian's will be waiting with electoral baseball bats to pound the living sh1t out of this hopeless, hapless, pathetic excuse for a government at the next election.

You know what?

Your right.   BRING IT ON.
When: 19 Dec 10 01:53
we'll see Jez, we'll see

Bring it on Cool
Canberra bookie
When: 19 Dec 10 02:05
What pathetic and utter deceitful reasoning though.

"half minus 1 Liberals want a tax on carbon".

Gutter politics from the watermelons.  Not at all surprising.
When: 19 Dec 10 02:17
half minus 1 of the Liberals want a price on carbon - get used to it guys it's coming

Historical Determinism combined with the Big Lie.

Marx, Stalin and Goebbels would be proud of you guys.
Canberra bookie
When: 19 Dec 10 02:20
When: 19 Dec 10 02:24
THE CLIMATE CHANGE MYTH that Julia wants us all to pay for,

" Tell Her ; You Lost all your money in the 6th @ Randwick ~ Yesterday "  Laugh
When: 19 Dec 10 09:20
From the SMH website

In the second round between Mr Abbott and Mr Turnbull, Mr Abbott polled 42 to Mr Turnbull's 41.

There was one MP or senator who voted informally in the second vote. Sky News reported that the informal vote was marked with the word ‘‘no’’.

If Turnbull wins we have at ETS today
When: 19 Dec 10 20:35
are we going to go more than a week without hearing that some weather conditions / storms somewhere in the world aren't the coldest, wettest, hottest, worst, etc in XXX years???

everything is ok though, it's just cyclical weather patterns [smiley:crazy]
When: 19 Dec 10 21:02
Van Morrison from his weird but wonderful album Hard Nose The Highway
The Great Deception

Did you ever hear about the great deception
Well the plastic revolutionaries take the money and run
Have you ever been down to love city
Where they rip you off with a smile
And it don't take a gun
Jez Melb Punter
When: 20 Dec 10 08:07

Lets get this one through your thick skull.

Tony Abbott is leader of the Coalition.
Malcolm Turnbull is Shadow Communications Spokesman.
And John Howard has left the building.

There is no ETS.  There is no C'wealth Coalition Govt.


Thats right, the weather hasn't drastically been changing over the past thousands apon thousands apon thousands of years has it?

LaughLaughLaughLaugh Wake up to yourself.

Carbon tax is a great big tax on everything.

And its outcome for the environment is :


Nothing.  Thats right.  Nothing.

But we're "wish'n, hope'n and pray'n"
Aren't we wombleoz.....


Jez Melb Punter
When: 20 Dec 10 08:10
Its all good for Gillard Labor.....

They've got plenty of political capital to burn when they implement a carbon tax in 2011.................


I'd be treasuring every second that remains of the Gillard Labor Government if I were you wombleoz.
When: 20 Dec 10 11:04
i will look forward to seeing how the Liberals vote when the day comes
Jez Melb Punter
When: 20 Dec 10 19:41
Not sure on the relevance wombleoz.

Labor are in government.

When: 20 Dec 10 19:43
You might remember that we actually have a hung parliament Jez, every vote could be crucial - although Labor with the Greens and Independents will hopefully have the numbers, Turnbull and his mates adding a few numbers would improve the situation
The Big O
When: 21 Dec 10 00:54
Granted the current govt is a shambles led by the completely inept Swan (re-reform the very banks that dragged this country through the **** on the basis that a bunch of mornons have taken up loans they can't afford?!?! Idiot)but unfortunately I don't see the Libs as being a great deal better.

They have basically offered Australia nothing for a long time.

And don't get me started on the Greens, they would have to be the worst of all. We don't mind if you greenies want to live in mud huts and braid each others hair but don't force your rubbish on others...
The Big O
When: 21 Dec 10 00:57
Incorrect spelling of moron Plain

That's Swanesque...
Jez Melb Punter
When: 21 Dec 10 07:31
We're in the first few months of a hung parliament - give the Coalition time The Big O.

The Coalition are in a strong position with a government faltering at every turn and without ideas, enthusiasm, leadership or competence.

2011 is the year for massive policy redevelopment for the Liberal-National Coalition - I believe we will see, not just a strong critique of the government from the Opposition (naturally you'd expect that from an Opposition) but a real, strong and credible alternative.

As for the Greens - couldn't agree more.

Just wait until Lee Rhiannon joins the Senate mid 2011 as a NSW Senator.........oh dear........Laugh
When: 21 Dec 10 08:35
Not another Liberal, I'm afraid we're being swamped by Liberals Cry

I'll have to get TQ to sign in [;)]

Greens are the Go Cool
When: 21 Dec 10 20:46
My turn to quote the Australian

The government's multi-party committee on climate change has agreed that industry competitiveness should underpin a carbon price mechanism.

Climate Change Minister Greg Combet yesterday labelled an agreement struck on a list of 11 policy principles as "a significant step forward" in the bid to legislate a price on carbon.

But, Mr Combet said, it was too early for the government to declare that legislation would be introduced into parliament by the end of next year, despite assurances from the Greens that it would be.

The policy principles agreed on yesterday by the multi-party committee include ensuring that a future carbon price mechanism be environmentally effective, have a neutral effect on the budget, promote investor certainty and take account of its impact on the competitiveness of local industries.

The committee, made up of representatives from the government, the Greens and regional independent MPs Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott, also agreed that a carbon price mechanism must be "fair", and assistance to low-income households should be considered.

Mr Combet yesterday said the committee had canvassed all the options and design features for pricing carbon over the past three months.

"Nothing has been agreed on any of the design features, and no particular option for a carbon price has been settled," Mr Combet said.

"The fact that we have been able to settle upon a set of

agreed principles to guide the development of a carbon price mechanism is a significant step forward."

Mr Combet said next year would be "a real business year for carbon pricing", but he conceded there was a long way to go before a mechanism was chosen.

Mr Windsor yesterday told Sky News the committee was making progress, but he said it was premature to begin talking about an outcome.

"I think we are having a rational debate behind closed doors and I think it's been pretty positive so far," Mr Windsor said.

"That doesn't mean it can't fall apart".

The New England MP said

the Productivity Commission's analysis on the mechanisms being adopted overseas would be essential to the committee's considerations.

Greens senator Christine Milne said the Greens wanted to see a market-based mechanism to lower emissions moved through parliament by the end of next year.

Bring it on Cool
Canberra bookie
When: 21 Dec 10 21:25

Swamped by Liberals?  Are you kidding wombleoz?

I think you'll find there are more people that lean towards Labor on here than the Coalition - thats just my view.

Just because a "few" people legitimately squash and illegitimise your comments doesn't mean your being overtaken by way of numbers. Laugh ffs

Your not very kind to debate it seems, wombleoz.

PS - Guess what Labor, the Greens and the two spotlighting leftie independents sitting in a committee talking about a carbon tax and help for low income families, mean?


It's still a useless great big tax on everything with no proven outcomes for the environment.

Just as Mr Oakeshott and Mr Windsor will be out on their ears at the next election - the Australian people (already seething over the trials and tribulations of this hung parliament nonsense) will be waiting with electoral baseball bats to smash the living sh1t out of this pathetic government.

Your a watermelon, wombleoz.
Green on the outside.
Red on the inside.

When you start screaming "Bring it on".
Its cue for the Australian people to be seriously afraid.
The Big O
When: 21 Dec 10 22:52
Hope your right Jez.

This mining tax is turning into another top shelf Swan moment.
Canberra bookie
When: 22 Dec 10 09:29
It's a farce.

Alway's has been.

Another pathetic moment from the election campaign - Gillard trying to say she had "solved" the mining tax issue.

Laugh ffs
Canberra bookie
When: 22 Dec 10 09:35
Even Bob Brown and the Greens are considering pulling the pin on there support for the mining tax.

Was listening to Colin Barnett (WA Lib Premier) talking about the the move Gillard Labor wants to make on state royalties - there are significant constitutional issues that are very real with the pending proposals being made.

Can't believe the Rudd-Gillard Government didn't discuss this matter with the states/territories prior to throwing this rushed mining tax onto the table.
When: 22 Dec 10 20:27
we'll see what the committee comes up with, either way the Greens will have the BOP after July - question becomes are the Liberals better off trying to get through a watered down Carbon Tax before July and the change or do they risk getting a harsher one with the Greens having more power after wards???  interesting 6 months coming up - either way, I'd be surprised if there isn't something in place by the end of the year Cool

As to the mining tax, the sooner they work it out the better - obviously there are constitutional issues around banning the states from increasing royalties beyond current levels and the government can't offer a blanket guarantee that they'll rebate them to the mining companies - i'm sure there is a way around it though - this is a tax that should've been in place years ago, and the mining companies realise they should be paying, so bring it on Cool
When: 22 Dec 10 20:52
Just watch CH10 next year and into the future, for a ballanced view of the Mining Industry. imo.Cry
Canberra bookie
When: 22 Dec 10 21:48
Your a wacker wombleoz, fair dinkum.

Do you ever think through the Rudd-Gillard government policy before you run around crazily screaming "BRING IT ON".

Laugh Clearly not.

The mining tax is a shambles.  No consultation with the miners/states/territories.  And the tax itself is flawed.

As for a carbon tax. 

Wombleoz, this great big new tax on everything is NOT about the Coalition.  This is about a Prime Minister who said "no carbon tax on my watch" and "greater initiatives on clean energy".

Two big bold promises - BROKEN.

Not only that, its has fundamental failings.  It's a great big tax on everything that does NOTHING for the environment.
Jez Melb Punter
When: 08 Jan 11 02:31
Bob Carter on Labor’s futile and economically damaging tax on carbon emissions

The pre-Christmas announcement by the Gillard Government’s Multi-Party Climate Change Committee of 11 key principles that it will apply in deciding the details of the planned new carbon tax was a “pantomime performance”, according to Professor Bob Carter.

Prof. Carter described the planned tax as “futile” and says it will be “economically damaging”.

Prof. Carter lists the 11 principles announced by the committee and comments on each:

Environmental effectiveness. The reality is that cutting Australia’s carbon dioxide emissions, even altogether, will confer no measurable environmental benefit. Computer models suggest that a cut in emissions of, say, 20% by 2050 will (hypothetically) prevent warming by less than one-thousandth of a degree. By definition, then, a carbon dioxide tax is ineffective.

Economic efficiency. No economic need, let alone efficiency, is sensibly met by taxing an environmentally beneficial trace gas.

Budget neutrality. Whose budget? The imposition of a tax of, say, $30/tonne will impose on every Australian household increased costs estimated at more than $2,000 per year.

Competitiveness of Australian industries. The introduction of a carbon dioxide tax is intended to, and will, significantly increase the cost of energy generation. Obviously, the resultant increase in business costs will reduce the competitiveness of Australian industry against overseas counterparts in countries (most) that have no similar tax.

Energy security. In fact, energy security is sharply compromised by the very policies that the committee is espousing. Which are to continue to discriminate against coal, uranium and hydropower as energy sources, thereby taking out of play three of the only four currently practical sources of baseload power generation. Restricting the nation’s options in this way leaves only gas and oil for baseload generation, reduces energy security dramatically and is irresponsible.

Investment certainty. Industry frequently calls for policy certainty regarding future investment in power generation. Terry McCrann was amongst the first to point out that such certainty would be most easily and cost-effectively assured by declaring a carbon dioxide tax of $0/tonne.

Fairness for households. The committee must surely be kidding. Any form of carbon dioxide taxation will inescapably cause increased costs for households, especially those of poorer socio-economic status. Mark well, the most disadvantaged Australians are going to pay, and that quite irrespective of any subsidy measures that the government may trumpet.

Flexibility to changing international circumstances. International circumstances have indeed changed recently, and the failure of nations to reach a global climate agreement at either the Copenhagen or Cancun conferences has been greeted in Australia with zero flexibility. Our policymakers and climate alarm lobbyists, now led by an unoriginal Mr Combet, have simply reiterated their earlier, failed policies of taxing carbon dioxide. The most important circumstance to be aware of now, of course, is that once such a tax is introduced it will be almost impossible to remove – despite its being unnecessary, inefficient and ultimately futile.

Administrative simplicity. Dream on. Remember, a Canberra-based committee is designing this unnecessary new tax.

Accountability. Of whom, and for what? If blame is to be sheeted home for the faulty scientific advice that has led to the current global warming policy fiasco, then CSIRO, BOM, the Department of Climate Change and major university climate research groups would be good places to start to look for culprits.

Support for Australia’s international objectives. Australian objectives presumably should not include economic and political stupidity in the face of the collapsed talkfests at Copenhagen and Cancun. The idea that overseas nations will discriminate against Australia unless we implement anti-carbon dioxide measures is well worn out, and has anyway always been a juvenile argument. Nations take hard decisions in accordance with their sovereign economic interests, irrespective of Green lobby group dreaming.

“The irony is that the eleven principles adopted by the MCCC, to the degree that they are not mere persiflage, add up to a strong argument for NOT introducing a levy on carbon dioxide emissions, i.e., the principles indicate a course of action precisely the opposite of what the government currently intends,” Prof. Carter writes.

Read Professor Carter’s article, including his commentary on the UN’s Cancun talkfest, at Quadrant Online.

Professor Bob Carter is a geologist at James Cook University, Fellow of the IPA and one of the world’s leading palaeoclimatologists.
When: 08 Jan 11 03:20
LOLOLOLOLOLOLLaughLaugh Jez....and u rekon i'm biased.LaughLaughLaugh

You couldn't find an organisation more aligned to the LIBS than this mob and Carter. The No 1 Climate Change Skeptic.

The Institute of Public Affairs (IPA) is a libertarian think tank based in Melbourne


The IPA was founded in the early 1940s, partly in response to the collapse of Australia's main conservative party, the United Australia Party. The IPA was one of a number of groups which came together to form the Liberal Party of Australia, and was, for many years, primarily a fund raising conduit for the Liberal Party, particularly in Victoria.LaughLaugh

The IPA returned to prominence as a thinktankLaugh in the 1990s, following a merger with the Australian Institute of Public Policy, headed by John Hyde who became Executive Director.


The IPA advocates free market economic policies such as privatisation and deregulation of state-owned enterprises, trade liberalisation and deregulated workplaces, climate change skepticism (through its environmental subsidiary the Australian Environment Foundation), and the accountability of non-government organisations (NGOs).

In its own words, the Institute believes in "the free market of ideas, the free flow of capital, a limited and efficient government, the rule of law, and representative democracy.


In 2003, the Australian Government paid $50,000 to the Institute of Public Affairs to review the accountability of NGOs.
The IPA funded by its membership which include both private individuals and businesses. Among these businesses are ExxonMobil, Telstra, WMC Resources, BHP Billiton, Phillip Morris,[6] Murray Irrigation Limited,[7] and Visy Industries.

IPA donors have also included Clough Engineering, Caltex, Shell and Esso.[8] Other backers were electricity and mining companies, as well as British American Tobacco (BAT).[8]

Political links

The Institute has close ideological and political affinities with the Liberal Party in Australia.

John Roskam, the IPA's Executive Director, worked on the Liberal Party's 2001 election campaign. He has also run for Liberal Party preselection.

Prime Minister John Howard (Liberal Party) delivered the 60th CD Kemp lecture to the Institute in 2004, titled Iraq: The Importance of Seeing it Through.

With the demise of the Howard Government, the Institute has played a significant role in generating intellectual analysis and criticism of the Rudd Government's policies.


John Roskam is the institute's executive director. Prior to his employment at the IPA, Roskam was the Executive Director of the Menzies Research Centre in Canberra. He has also held positions as Chief of Staff to Dr David Kemp, the x  Federal Minister for Employment, Education, Training and Youth Affairs, as Senior Advisor to Don Hayward, Victorian Minister for Education in the first Kennett Government, and as Manager of Government and Corporate Affairs for Rio Tinto Group.He is currently undertaking a PhD and teaching politics at the University of Melbourne.

Other staff include:
Dr Alan Moran, Director, Deregulation Unit
Mr Chris Berg, Research Fellow
Mr Tony Barry, Director, Finance and Operations
Mr Tim Wilson, Director, Intellectual Property and Free Trade Unit
Mr John Pesutto, Director, Productivity and Employment Unit
Mr Ken Phillips, Director Workplace Reform Unit
Ms Louise Staley, Director, Food and Environment Unit
Professor Sinclair Davidson, Senior Fellow
Mr John Hyde, Emeritus Fellow
Ms Julie Novak, Research Fellow
Mr Richard Allsop, Research Fellow
Ms Carolyn Popp, Research Fellow
Mr Graham Farebrother, Research Fellow
Mr Andrew Poon, Marketing Manager
Professor Bob Carter, Emeritus Fellow, Science Policy Advisor
Mr Brad Laver
Former staff include
Dr Jennifer Marohasy, Director, Environment Unit
Dr Mike Nahan, Executive Director
Mr Don D'Cruz, Senior Fellow
Hon Dr Gary Johns, Director, Governance Unit (an ex-Hawke Labor minister)
Mr Jim Hoggett, Senior Fellow
[ Kemp Family
Charles Kemp - founder of IPA and father of Rod and David
Rod Kemp - Director of IPA and later Senator
David Kemp - MP.


Talk about BIAS   LaughLaughLaughLaugh
When: 08 Jan 11 03:24
ExxonMobil, Telstra, WMC Resources, BHP Billiton, Phillip Morris,[6] Murray Irrigation Limited,[7] and Visy Industries.

IPA donors have also included Clough Engineering, Caltex, Shell and Esso.[8] Other backers were electricity and mining companies, as well as British American Tobacco (BAT).[8]

So that's why the LIBS continue to accept Political Donations from some of these companies including the Cancer Companies.DevilDevilDevil
When: 08 Jan 11 03:28
R U a member JEZ......LaughLaughLaugh
When: 08 Jan 11 04:18
OIL Companies, Tobacco Companies, Mining Companies



When: 08 Jan 11 04:23
Just as a matter of interest?LaughLaughLaugh
When: 08 Jan 11 04:44
Just proves that the Climate Change deniers are FUELLED Laugh by their alleigance with BIG OIL,BIG MINING Companies,an a desire to have the debate across POLITICAL PARTY LINES and is a CARBON Laugh COPY of how the debate is being manourvered in the USA Democrats vs Republicans.
Jez Melb Punter
When: 08 Jan 11 05:11
Here come the conspiracies.  Laugh

Anything to divert from this proposed great big tax on anything.

Of course sceptics are going to be aligned with parties that are asking questions about climate change.  Why on earth would Professor Carter link in with Labor/Greens?

C'mon AFL.  You've given me a good belly laugh if anything else.

This carbon tax is a joke.  You can't seem to get around that fact can you?  Lots of waffle, still no reasonable arguments.

You've typically offered nothing in response to Professor Carters views - and I think he'd know more than you as he is a Professor on the topic of climate - and in his view, there's no doubt, this Carbon Tax is an absolute farce.  Face it.

Whats this nonsense you say.  You can draw your fantasy lines between Oil companies and the Liberals all you like - its just nonsense.  Your saying the Oil companies don't donate to the Labor Party, AFL?

Laugh Please.

Actually particpate in the debate AFL.
Jez Melb Punter
When: 08 Jan 11 05:13
We'll see if the Labor Party use your phoney arguments next year when they slug the Australian people with a great big tax on everything - that does NOTHING for the environment.


I can't wait. 

It'll go down like a lead balloon.
Jez Melb Punter
When: 08 Jan 11 05:17
I'm all for helping the environment.

But this carbon tax does absolutely zilch to help in this great "battle" Laugh we face against Climate Change.

I mean, we're going to trash our economy, risk jobs, slug those that are most vulnerable and all for what?

Because, "we have to do something".

Here's an idea.

Lets do something constructive.  I'm not against positive & effective environmental policies for the future - what I'm against is great big fkn tax without outcomes.

If this is the argument (that wombleoz, AFL, Gillard and all the rest) are peddling, goodluck politically.

Laugh Bring it on! LOL
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