cant see binocular winning another proper grade 1 again.

Yeah bud, they were targeting this race initially when they were planning on skipping Cheltenham with Solwhit until his setback. He must be interesting if they decide to go chasing with him as Arkle horses need to stay further.

But it seems when binocular is beaten he's "not at his best" I'm sorry but I'm done with it. He seems to be the only horse who is forgiven everything until he wins and then goes into bad form afterwards again. He has to this day never beaten a good horse, Khyber Kim, Zaynar, Celestial Halo were the pick of last year and Overtun the only one this year. I'm taking a stance against him now, he needs to win a top class race to win me over again and I was a supporter of this horse and have been for two seasons.

Oscar Whiskey though is a very admirable horse and I'm glad he won a Grade 1. Do they give the middle distances a crack next season before stepping up to face the invincible machine, Big Bucks? I'd certainly do that given how competitive the novice chasing ranks look.

But it's no surprise the horses who went into training in late December in Oscar Whiskey and Thousand Stars seemed to be feeling the exertions of Cheltenham less. I said this earlier when I was saying why I'd be supporting Thousand Stars and Oscar against Peddlers and Binocular.

The form of Flys Champion is strong, the 4 chasing him home have good form this season, all but the Christmas Hurdle winner took part in the race. 

Fly will improve too, that's his first full season without any interruptions and Mullins has nailed how to train him. Hurricane Fly will be next to unbackable though if he wins his races in Ireland next season, the bookies will have him 6/4 at least on the day. It's hard to back horses at those prices. Suppose a treble with big Bucks and Quevega might be the way

I had an e/w on Thousand Stars and a little saver on Oscar myself. The forecast, hah I wish.

Smart &rse!!

The RP were offering money back on one of their phone apps if Binocular won. Remind me who Henderson writes a column for ?

and denman

"Didn't they do that with Albertas Run as well???"




Probably. Many of these fancied favs or short prices that are got at and layed at special prices usually run badly. I wouldn't be suprised if connections are giving bookies/RP the heads up. It was the same with Poquelin at 4/1.

Binocular is hugely over rated. We cast Punjabi off easily when his subsequent season was poor but we cling to the belief Binocular is still class. No, he is not top class. He would have been beaten by a proper horse had he ran in the Champion Hurdle.

Binocular only won a champion hurdle because Hurricane Fly (among others, Go Native, Solwhit) got injured. He was lucky.

Some good points there, Rondetto.

Binocular is increasingly a hard one to work out, I feel. He may have been over-rated to some extent, as CV suggests, but even that line of thought needs to be unpacked a lot more, I think, to start to get an insight into the horse.

There may be many reasons to explain the occasions when Binocular has appeared to run below his best, including possibly matters relating to attitude and health. In terms of race conditions, his most impressive performances seem to have been when the pace from the front has been strong enough from an early enough stage to break up the pack in a way that allows Binocular to outrun the field rather than have to out battle or out sprint the others in the finish. By contrast, he has often looked pretty ordinary in situations where the pack remains fairly well bunched off no more than a moderate pace when the race for home starts in earnest. In such situations, it has often been the case he has not picked up particularly well (or as well as many were expecting).

I am not sure how much can be made of the contrast in race conditions I am making there. I think it may be significant though that Binocular has achieved some very good speed ratings in those races where he clearly has sparkled, including the CH win. Most races aren't run fast enough to generate those kind of speed ratings. In terms of graded races, that means you often need to be able to out sprint or out battle the opposition in the closing stages i.e because there hasn't been enough pace on for long enough stretches to be able to simply outrun the field. As I said, I am not sure that out sprinting or out battling other horses in a crowded rush to the line is necessarily Binocular's forte.

Binocular's CH win was, arguably, achieved against a field that lacked strength in depth (particularly with the injury sustained by Go Native). It wasn't a weak performance on the clock though. Mordin's speed rating approach has Binocular's win rated slightly higher than HF's win. And in terms of topspeed, Binocular's win achieved a rating of 163 against HF's 149.

I suspect that had he needed to, HF could have achieved an ever better performance on the clock (in terms of speed ratings)in the CH. In fact, what seems remarkable to me about HF is that while he clearly has a brilliant turn of foot to put more moderately run races to bed, he gives every impression of travelling well enough and having the stamina and battling qualities to win out in races that are much more testing in terms of maintaining high speed over sustained distances.

HF is starting to look like the complete package; Binocular is increasingly looking like a very talented horse, but one that has some significant flaws or reasons for not being able to back with confidence. Nevertheless, it would be very interesting to see the two run against each other if the conditions were such that Binocular was able to cover the ground as quickly as he did in the 2010 CH and the pace strong enough over a sufficiently sustained distance to avoid anything approaching a sprint finish. I probably wouldn't want to back against HF in that situation, but all the same it would make for a very interesting race, I think.

I agree aka, take sizing Europe for example, he needs an end to end relentless gallop over 2m on good ground to be seen at his best. He got exactly that Cheltenham. Celestial Halo gave Binocular that in his Champion hurdle last year.

But the problem for Binocular is that Fly is better with a fast gallop as he settles, he doesn't settle when the pace is moderate because he's not going fast enough hence he's very keen and Ruby is hard at work trying to keep him in midfield.

So should the pace next year be a fast one like I hope it is, we'll see Fly at his absolute best and hopefully he'll get the rating to match.

Fly does have it all, awesome speed, slick hurdling, travels like a dream, plenty of stamina, buckets of courage, versatility and consistency.

Finest since Istabraq.

I know it will never happen,but if i owned Bino then he would be straight off to the nicholls stable or another trainer who will train it properly instead of fuc king about with his fitness and getting him ready for 1 race a year and even fuc king that up,ever since his 3rd in the CH in 09 he has been trained like a complete joke and such a horse deserves better

Rondetto "It could just be he's had enough of racing as he was thrown into the Supreme against older horses and against Nicky Hederson's wishes." - that's a good point.

Just looking again at the Fly vs Bino since they turned 4 and began hurdling:

Age 4: Fly 88f, Bino 99f
Age 5: Fly 32f, Bino 49f
Age 6: Fly 52f, Bino 51f
Age 7: Fly 33f, Bino 53f

So earlier in their careers Bino was worked a lot harder; as he had more racing and they were all tough races.  Battle up the hill in the Supreme, followed by a trip to Aintree less than 3 weeks later as a four year old.

As a fuve year old he had a tough campaign.  Then the Champion Hurdle battle probably didn't do him any favours, then the defeat to Go Native twice.  As a five year old he had three races and lost all of them; compare that to the Fly where he only had 2 runs and one was a novice hurlde.

Nicky Henderson has trained 5 champion hurdle winners. Five. Two of them coming in the past 3 seasons. Nicholls has trained zero champion hurdle winners.

Also your below post further proves you have have no grasp of probability or value.

I think that was rather good pricing fly up at about a 3/1 shot with Binocular still engaged and Menorahs potential and form still unknown at the time.

With Binocular out of the race and Cue Card stuffed in the supreme he became at 6/4 shot in my view and I backed him again at the track accordingly. I must say I absolutely nailed the champion hurdle this season.

Thanks for digging up my post

Well Chief Fly raced 5 times inside 7 months as a 4yo. Two of those tough 2m4f races in France. I think it's straw clutching believing that the amount of racing Fly and Binocular have had is the reason the former is potentially deteriorating.

Fact remains he has won 2 of his last 7 grade 1 races, beating Overturn, Khyber Kim and Zaynar in them, he simply hasn't beaten any horse to make me believe he's a top class hurdler. His Champion hurdle fell to pieces.

You have to concede though that Binocular was thrown into the deep end at a much earlier age than Hurricane Fly.

I've always beleived that the Fly at his peak would beat Bino at his peak; but I think that the Supreme and then being pitched in at the deep end as a five year old may have left its mark on him.  He has been to Cheltenham 3 times now (should have been 4) and he's only 7,  where Festival races are a lot tougher physically than a normal grade 1.

My two for next years champion are The Fly and Oscars Well aswell. Oscars tanked at cheltenham most impressive loser at the festival

Binocular will be entered at Punchestown. This will be the last race you'll ever get to back Hurricane Fly at odds against.

I shall bring one of my H-Fly dumper trucks still over flowing with H-Fly winnings to Punchestown and have a few able lads with wheelbarrows wheel the cash in to pile upon him once again. I shall take position at the winning post like last year and watch the procession.

Then the journey is complete. I shall contact my bank manager and enjoy the rest of the evening.

I missed the prices on Spirit Son, I was going to take the 29's on here but didn't thinking he'd lost at Aintree. I have Oscars Well and Zarkander backed, only threats I can see to Fly next season.