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undecided
15 Jun 13 19:23
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Date Joined: 12 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 30,108 | Blogger: undecided's blog
A new one-off Horse Racing competition, because you know I can't resist. Happy

This will not start proper until first or second week in September, I am not accepting entries now, I will advertise afresh in August once I've done a trial run

If you commit to this, please be ready to take part over 15 weeks (if you are good enough!), ending by Christmas, one selection per week.
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Report salmon spray June 28, 2013 10:49 PM BST
Hmmm.
I don't like this game        Sad
Report undecided June 29, 2013 11:55 AM BST
Do the tables look ok?
I use the forum pop-up and stretch it to just over half my screen width, some of the lines go double but it looks ok to me. I might ban very long names though Wink
Report sixtwosix June 29, 2013 12:47 PM BST
Brockwell - 3.15 Newcastle

thanks
Report Monte Christo June 29, 2013 12:52 PM BST
Libertarian - 6.30 Curragh

Think this fella could turn the tables today.
Report Monte Christo June 29, 2013 12:52 PM BST
Thanks ud.
Report undecided June 29, 2013 4:43 PM BST
Group 1
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 01.25 undecided Ribbons 3.25 Newm W 5/4 v 5/4 L 6.55 Leic Curl bettysboy -01.00 0 0
1 -01.00 shanelee1966 Thunder Strike 4.25 Asc L 11/2 v 5/1 L 6.45 Leop Mouteab Monte Christo -01.00 1 -01.00 1
3 00.25 0 -01.00 undecided Cornish Beau 8.40 Leic L 7/4 v 4/1 W 9.20 Ham Limit Up shanelee1966 04.00 3 03.00 4
-02.00 -01.00 bettysboy Zarosa 7.50 Thir L 5/2 v 6.30 Curr Libertarian Monte Christo
undecided v Monte Christo
bettysboy v shanelee1966


Group 2
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 02.50 china castle The Rectifier 4.0 Red W 5/2 v 5/4 L 9.10 Kemp Inka Surprise GEORGE.B -01.00 0
1 -01.00 salmon spray Grandads Horse 3.30 MR L 3/10 v 11/10 L 7.55 Leop Edith Cowan sixtwosix -01.00 1
6 04.13 3 01.63 china castle Paris Rose 8.40 Newm W 13/8 v 5/4 L 7.15 Newc Prussian salmon spray -01.00 0 -02.00 1
1 -02.00 1 -01.00 GEORGE.B Look On By 5.30 Muss L 7/2 v 20/1 L 3.15 Newc Brockwell sixtwosix -01.00 1 -02.00 2
china castle v sixtwosix
GEORGE.B v salmon spray
Report undecided June 29, 2013 7:36 PM BST
Group 1
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 01.25 undecided Ribbons 3.25 Newm W 5/4 v 5/4 L 6.55 Leic Curl bettysboy -01.00 0
1 -01.00 shanelee1966 Thunder Strike 4.25 Asc L 11/2 v 5/1 L 6.45 Leop Mouteab Monte Christo -01.00 1
3 00.25 0 -01.00 undecided Cornish Beau 8.40 Leic L 7/4 v 4/1 W 9.20 Ham Limit Up shanelee1966 04.00 3 03.00 4
1 -02.00 1 -01.00 bettysboy Zarosa 7.50 Thir L 5/2 v 7/2 L 6.30 Curr Libertarian Monte Christo -01.00 1 -02.00 2
undecided v Monte Christo
bettysboy v shanelee1966


Group 2
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 02.50 china castle The Rectifier 4.0 Red W 5/2 v 5/4 L 9.10 Kemp Inka Surprise GEORGE.B -01.00 0
1 -01.00 salmon spray Grandads Horse 3.30 MR L 3/10 v 11/10 L 7.55 Leop Edith Cowan sixtwosix -01.00 1
6 04.13 3 01.63 china castle Paris Rose 8.40 Newm W 13/8 v 5/4 L 7.15 Newc Prussian salmon spray -01.00 0 -02.00 1
1 -02.00 1 -01.00 GEORGE.B Look On By 5.30 Muss L 7/2 v 20/1 L 3.15 Newc Brockwell sixtwosix -01.00 1 -02.00 2
china castle v sixtwosix
GEORGE.B v salmon spray
Report GEORGE.B June 29, 2013 7:58 PM BST
sixtwosix, very sporting of you to go for one in such a competitive race when there were easier pickings. Well done on the place.
Report undecided June 29, 2013 8:04 PM BST
Yes, you lot are too gentlemanly for this comp Laugh
Report Monte Christo June 29, 2013 8:10 PM BST
Laugh

Absolute stinker there by Libertarian.

Onwards and upwards.Grin
Report Shanelee1966 June 29, 2013 8:13 PM BST
You won`t be saying that when I start in earnest ud Laugh I`ve room for another trophy on my mantelpiece Laugh
Report china castle June 29, 2013 8:42 PM BST
Your mantelpiece like the Arsenal trophy cabinet these days Shane Wink
Report Shanelee1966 June 29, 2013 9:03 PM BST
The only trophy I ever won was for ping pong at 16 years Laugh I was bloody good, was in clubs/teams around Sheffield, practiced all the time. Went to college and played this Chinese lad who was top dog, first to win five games, I done him 5-3 Grin
Report Shanelee1966 June 29, 2013 9:05 PM BST
No-one could deal with his serve, severe spin. I adopted a more defensive strategy early in the match and managed to survive the early onslaught.
Report salmon spray June 30, 2013 12:09 AM BST
Is there a rule to stop china castle putting out a weakened tipster in his final game ?
I have this ghastly vision of sixtwosix just having to beat petemac.
Report undecided June 30, 2013 2:48 PM BST
I don't think this situation of china not needing to try in the final week can be helped really, unless some sort of incentive is given. Possibly if you win the group you get seeded in the next stage, although that still wouldn't help in this case as china castle cannot be caught.
Maybe an additional bonus point for bigger price winners as has been suggested.

Anyway, after this week I'll review the whole thread and try and come up with a final format, keep the comments coming.
Report china castle June 30, 2013 2:58 PM BST
Bonus point for the biggest price winner in the group. Might keep the interest going if you lose your first 2 matches an can't otherwise qualify.
Report undecided June 30, 2013 3:05 PM BST
good suggestion china.
Report madhatters June 30, 2013 9:52 PM BST
Seeding sounds a good un UD

Think you now seeing the difference between individual battles versus a group format battle
China can afford to play his alternative selections whilst the fish is squirming for assistance Grin
CC has earned the right - bit like Fergie giving his reserves a run out
Shouldn't be trying to nobble CC but encouraging the others to go for better prices earlier

2 bonus points for biggest winner in group would make selectors think seriously abt the larger ones
Report bettysboy July 1, 2013 8:07 PM BST
Cruiser 8.15 Ffos Las please
Report salmon spray July 1, 2013 8:12 PM BST
I don't think I like madhatters      Mischief
Report undecided July 1, 2013 8:26 PM BST
Great winner bettysboy Happy

Group 1
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 01.25 undecided Ribbons 3.25 Newm W 5/4 v 5/4 L 6.55 Leic Curl bettysboy -01.00 0
1 -01.00 shanelee1966 Thunder Strike 4.25 Asc L 11/2 v 5/1 L 6.45 Leop Mouteab Monte Christo -01.00 1
3 00.25 0 -01.00 undecided Cornish Beau 8.40 Leic L 7/4 v 4/1 W 9.20 Ham Limit Up shanelee1966 04.00 3 03.00 4
1 1 -01.00 bettysboy Zarosa 7.50 Thir L 5/2 v 7/2 L 6.30 Curr Libertarian Monte Christo -01.00 1 -02.00 2
undecided v Monte Christo
01.00 03.00 bettysboy Cruiser 8.15 Ffos W 3/1 v shanelee1966
Report Shanelee1966 July 1, 2013 8:38 PM BST
Nice one bb
Report Shanelee1966 July 1, 2013 8:42 PM BST
Swendab 8:45 Ffos Las

Thanks ud,
Report bettysboy July 1, 2013 8:44 PM BST
very game shane GL
Report bettysboy July 1, 2013 8:47 PM BST
badnews for me Sad
Report Shanelee1966 July 1, 2013 8:48 PM BST
7s on here when I posted Laugh
Report undecided July 1, 2013 8:48 PM BST
Wow Excited
Report Shanelee1966 July 1, 2013 8:50 PM BST
Been running well this year without last years wins.
Report undecided July 1, 2013 8:50 PM BST
Group 1
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 01.25 undecided Ribbons 3.25 Newm W 5/4 v 5/4 L 6.55 Leic Curl bettysboy -01.00 0
1 -01.00 shanelee1966 Thunder Strike 4.25 Asc L 11/2 v 5/1 L 6.45 Leop Mouteab Monte Christo -01.00 1
3 00.25 0 -01.00 undecided Cornish Beau 8.40 Leic L 7/4 v 4/1 W 9.20 Ham Limit Up shanelee1966 04.00 3
1 -01.00 bettysboy Zarosa 7.50 Thir L 5/2 v 7/2 L 6.30 Curr Libertarian Monte Christo -01.00 1 -02.00 2
undecided v Monte Christo
3 01.00 2 03.00 bettysboy Cruiser 8.15 Ffos W 3/1 v 3/1 W 8.45 Ffos Swendab shanelee1966 03.00 2 06.00 6
Report china castle July 1, 2013 8:52 PM BST
Nice 15-1 double from the pin twins Happy
Report undecided July 1, 2013 8:57 PM BST
Congratulations shane, you are through to the next round, so to speak Happy
Report Shanelee1966 July 1, 2013 9:15 PM BST
Thanks ud,i was 33`s at one point Laugh
Report Monte Christo July 1, 2013 9:45 PM BST
Two nice winners for bettysboy and that dark horse Shane.Laugh

Well done lads.Cool
Report salmon spray July 1, 2013 11:44 PM BST
Wd Shane.
Report madhatters July 2, 2013 12:27 PM BST
Nowt personal SS Laugh
Report salmon spray July 2, 2013 4:25 PM BST
I'm going to put myself out of my misery
6.10 Stratford - Azure Fly
Thanks.
Report Shanelee1966 July 2, 2013 5:04 PM BST
Cheers Monte & salmon. Good luck with yours.
Report china castle July 2, 2013 5:32 PM BST
Whitefall - 8.00 Bath

Thanks UD
Report undecided July 2, 2013 6:18 PM BST
Well done salmon Happy

Group 2
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 02.50 china castle The Rectifier 4.0 Red W 5/2 v 5/4 L 9.10 Kemp Inka Surprise GEORGE.B -01.00 0
1 -01.00 salmon spray Grandads Horse 3.30 MR L 3/10 v 11/10 L 7.55 Leop Edith Cowan sixtwosix -01.00 1
6 04.13 3 01.63 china castle Paris Rose 8.40 Newm W 13/8 v 5/4 L 7.15 Newc Prussian salmon spray -01.00 0 1
1 -02.00 1 -01.00 GEORGE.B Look On By 5.30 Muss L 7/2 v 20/1 L 3.15 Newc Brockwell sixtwosix -01.00 1 -02.00 2
china castle Whitefall 8.0 Bath v sixtwosix
GEORGE.B v 5/4 W 6.10 Str Azure Fly salmon spray 01.25 -00.75
Report Monte Christo July 2, 2013 7:14 PM BST
Well done salmon.
Report salmon spray July 2, 2013 7:19 PM BST
Thanks gents.
At least I haven't completely disgraced myself after missing an open goal in the first week.
Report china castle July 2, 2013 7:39 PM BST
Nice one salmon Cool
Report Shanelee1966 July 2, 2013 8:32 PM BST
Good call salmon.
Report undecided July 2, 2013 8:52 PM BST
Group 2
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 02.50 china castle The Rectifier 4.0 Red W 5/2 v 5/4 L 9.10 Kemp Inka Surprise GEORGE.B -01.00 0
1 -01.00 salmon spray Grandads Horse 3.30 MR L 3/10 v 11/10 L 7.55 Leop Edith Cowan sixtwosix -01.00 1
6 3 01.63 china castle Paris Rose 8.40 Newm W 13/8 v 5/4 L 7.15 Newc Prussian salmon spray -01.00 0 1
1 -02.00 1 -01.00 GEORGE.B Look On By 5.30 Muss L 7/2 v 20/1 L 3.15 Newc Brockwell sixtwosix -01.00 1 -02.00 2
03.13 -01.00 china castle Whitefall 8.0 Bath L 3/2 v sixtwosix
GEORGE.B v 5/4 W 6.10 Str Azure Fly salmon spray 01.25 -00.75
Report salmon spray July 2, 2013 9:41 PM BST
Well china put his first team out. Right price and it was his nap as well.
Report china castle July 2, 2013 10:32 PM BST
Tried my best as always , just ran a shocker Cry.

Think sixtwosix will need an odds against winner to overhaul you if George picks a loser.
Report salmon spray July 3, 2013 10:06 AM BST
I'm trying to work this out china. My reading is that sixtwosix will have to get an odds-against winner whether I win or GEORGE does. GEORGE obviously has to get one that is longer than 5/4 so if he does he will have 4pts as will I if he doesn't. sixtwosix will have 4 pts if he beats you with an odds-on shot but his P/L won't be as good as the winner of our match so I presume one of us goes through. Of course if he gets one at evens or better he goes through as he has 5 pts.
Phew. I wonder if ud can confirm.
Report china castle July 3, 2013 10:18 AM BST
sixtwosix needs an evens or better winner to take 2nd with 5 points.

If sixtwosix doesn't pick an evens or better winner than George will get second with a winner bigger than 5-4.

Otherwise you get second salmon.

Think thats right Confused
Report china castle July 3, 2013 10:20 AM BST
Don't want to think about what happens if George comes up with a 5-4 winner and draws with you Crazy
Report salmon spray July 3, 2013 10:29 AM BST
Toss of a coin I think.
Report undecided July 3, 2013 4:41 PM BST
I think you have it right.
Nice and complicated Happy
Report undecided July 5, 2013 10:50 PM BST
1.30 cut-off for selections Saturday.
Report undecided July 5, 2013 10:51 PM BST
or 1.29 if you're selecting first race Happy
Report Monte Christo July 6, 2013 10:01 AM BST
The Fugue - 3.50 Sandown

Best of luck ud.Happy
Report undecided July 6, 2013 11:14 AM BST
Brave Pick MC, and a good one, fancy that myself so now do I look for a bigger price or "play safe"?
Report undecided July 6, 2013 11:16 AM BST
Actually, if we draw then I go through so no point me not going for a bigger price I suppose.
Report undecided July 6, 2013 11:22 AM BST
Which just goes to show this comp isn't necessarily about picking shorties, if your opponent is brave then your hand may be forced.
Report undecided July 6, 2013 12:06 PM BST
My Kingdom 4.0 Leic

good luck Monte
Report GEORGE.B July 6, 2013 1:08 PM BST
Not even sure this is gonna be bigger than 5-4

Wish I'd known about this 1.30 cut-off time before today Mischief

2.55 Albasharah

cheers undecided
Report sixtwosix July 6, 2013 1:22 PM BST
Mars - 3.50 Sandown
thanks
Report undecided July 6, 2013 2:27 PM BST
Group 1
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 01.25 undecided Ribbons 3.25 Newm W 5/4 v 5/4 L 6.55 Leic Curl bettysboy -01.00 0
1 -01.00 shanelee1966 Thunder Strike 4.25 Asc L 11/2 v 5/1 L 6.45 Leop Mouteab Monte Christo -01.00 1
3 00.25 0 -01.00 undecided Cornish Beau 8.40 Leic L 7/4 v 4/1 W 9.20 Ham Limit Up shanelee1966 04.00 3
1 -01.00 bettysboy Zarosa 7.50 Thir L 5/2 v 7/2 L 6.30 Curr Libertarian Monte Christo -01.00 1 -02.00 2
undecided My Kingdom 4.0 Leic v 3.50 San The Fugue Monte Christo
3 01.00 2 03.00 bettysboy Cruiser 8.15 Ffos W 3/1 v 3/1 W 8.45 Ffos Swendab shanelee1966 03.00 2 06.00 6


Group 2
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 02.50 china castle The Rectifier 4.0 Red W 5/2 v 5/4 L 9.10 Kemp Inka Surprise GEORGE.B -01.00 0
1 -01.00 salmon spray Grandads Horse 3.30 MR L 3/10 v 11/10 L 7.55 Leop Edith Cowan sixtwosix -01.00 1
6 3 01.63 china castle Paris Rose 8.40 Newm W 13/8 v 5/4 L 7.15 Newc Prussian salmon spray -01.00 0 1
1 -02.00 1 -01.00 GEORGE.B Look On By 5.30 Muss L 7/2 v 20/1 L 3.15 Newc Brockwell sixtwosix -01.00 1 -02.00 2
03.13 -01.00 china castle Whitefall 8.0 Bath L 3/2 v 3.50 San Mars sixtwosix
GEORGE.B Albasharah 2.55 Hay v 5/4 W 6.10 Str Azure Fly salmon spray 01.25 -00.75
Report GEORGE.B July 6, 2013 3:01 PM BST
Well done Salmon Spray

good luck all
Report undecided July 6, 2013 5:58 PM BST
Group 1
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 01.25 undecided Ribbons 3.25 Newm W 5/4 v 5/4 L 6.55 Leic Curl bettysboy -01.00 0
1 -01.00 shanelee1966 Thunder Strike 4.25 Asc L 11/2 v 5/1 L 6.45 Leop Mouteab Monte Christo -01.00 1
0 -01.00 undecided Cornish Beau 8.40 Leic L 7/4 v 4/1 W 9.20 Ham Limit Up shanelee1966 04.00 3
1 -01.00 bettysboy Zarosa 7.50 Thir L 5/2 v 7/2 L 6.30 Curr Libertarian Monte Christo -01.00 1
4 -00.75 1 -01.00 undecided My Kingdom 4.0 Leic L 11/2 v 5/1 L 3.50 San The Fugue Monte Christo -01.00 1 -03.00 3
3 01.00 2 03.00 bettysboy Cruiser 8.15 Ffos W 3/1 v 3/1 W 8.45 Ffos Swendab shanelee1966 03.00 2 06.00 6


Group 2
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 02.50 china castle The Rectifier 4.0 Red W 5/2 v 5/4 L 9.10 Kemp Inka Surprise GEORGE.B -01.00 0
1 -01.00 salmon spray Grandads Horse 3.30 MR L 3/10 v 11/10 L 7.55 Leop Edith Cowan sixtwosix -01.00 1
3 01.63 china castle Paris Rose 8.40 Newm W 13/8 v 5/4 L 7.15 Newc Prussian salmon spray -01.00 0
1 -01.00 GEORGE.B Look On By 5.30 Muss L 7/2 v 20/1 L 3.15 Newc Brockwell sixtwosix -01.00 1
7 03.13 1 -01.00 china castle Whitefall 8.0 Bath L 3/2 v 9/2 L 3.50 San Mars sixtwosix -01.00 1 -03.00 3
1 -03.00 0 -01.00 GEORGE.B Albasharah 2.55 Hay L 5/4 v 5/4 W 6.10 Str Azure Fly salmon spray 01.25 3 -00.75 4
Report bettysboy July 6, 2013 6:34 PM BST
congrats ud but how did you end up winning a point by backing a loser?
Report bettysboy July 6, 2013 8:06 PM BST
aah i've read the rules - i think it is wrong to award a player a point forselecting a loser in the match also selects a loser. Losers lose Winners win.
Report Monte Christo July 6, 2013 9:42 PM BST
Well done to the top 2 in both groups.

I'm keeping my powder dry till the biggie starts.Grin

Great idea for a competition ud.
Report undecided July 6, 2013 11:15 PM BST
thanks MC

bettysboy - I wanted it that way where you could have draws if no-one picks a winner in a match. Ok I'm influenced by the scoring method in football, and this isn't quite the same.
You see it as rewarding picking a loser selection, but I see it as rewarding not losing to your opponent.
I could be wrong, that's what this trial is about.

I'd like your post trial opinions on the scoring.
Report undecided July 6, 2013 11:20 PM BST
George - yea I did include the first race cut-off on Saturdays in the rules.
I feel there needs to be the distinction between playing early week where you have more choices right up to the off, but open yourself up to showing your hand to your opponent, and waiting for Saturday when you can both play late but blind, in that you can't be sure of your opponents result/price.
Report bettysboy July 7, 2013 9:49 AM BST
Its OK ud, I understand its matchplay, just hadnt read through all the rules and was being lazy.
Report GEORGE.B July 7, 2013 12:09 PM BST
Cheers undecided, I'll remember for next time.
Report Shanelee1966 July 9, 2013 7:51 PM BST
ud - in the unlikely event that I haven`t already won the trial by now Laugh I`m away Friday 12th until Saturday 20th, what would you suggest for next weeks selection? Can I ask Reg to post for me?
Report Shanelee1966 July 9, 2013 7:52 PM BST
Oh, hold on... is the next round from this Saturday onwards?
Report undecided July 9, 2013 7:59 PM BST
Hi shane, no that was it for the trial, just to get a feel of how the scoring works for a group stage.
As for how I'm going to accommodate holiday cover I don't know if there is an answer because I don't want people posting for others.
Report Shanelee1966 July 9, 2013 8:38 PM BST
I`ll have had mine so anyone who takes a holiday gets eliminated Laugh

Cheers ud,
Report undecided July 10, 2013 2:02 PM BST
Suggestions & notes gathered from trial:

0pts for below evens loser
1pt for above evens loser

_______________

Above evens winner - 3pts
Below evens winner - 2pts
Above evens loser - 1pt
Below evens loser - 0pt

___________________

Possible incentive to post first:
1 Bonus point for posting first if your selection ends up being a bigger price than your opponents

__________________

above evens win -  3 pts
above evens loser - 1 pt
below evens winner - 1 pt
below evens loser - 0 pt

i.e. if you bet below evens and your opponent does not , the best you can get is a draw.
i.e. if both of you bet above evens or both below , either player can win.


___________________

Once you post a selection, you won't be able to change it, unless it's a duplicate or non-runner.
You won't be able to leave reserves.
If there is a tie on pts and P/L and no-one missed a selection, then the next tie-breaker would be who had the bigger odds selections.
Just UK & Ireland races to select from.
I will also insist on players posting their own selections, no posts on behalf of anyone else.

___________________

Next stage seeding for group winners?

______________________

Bonus point (2?) for biggest single winner at the end of group stage
Report undecided July 10, 2013 2:03 PM BST
Any more comments now that the trial has finished?
Report china castle July 10, 2013 6:48 PM BST
Bonus point for winner 10-1 or above as well as previously stated bonus point for biggest winner in the group. So potential for 2 bonus points .

You need to keep the interest going if somebody loses their first 2 games .

Don't think anything else needs changing or it will get too complicated.
Report Shanelee1966 July 10, 2013 6:53 PM BST
Yes, Brucie bonus for



















































































Yes, Brucie bonuses as per china`s suggestion. Good game good game Grin
Report Shanelee1966 July 10, 2013 6:54 PM BST
That was my dogs fault Blush
Report undecided July 10, 2013 7:53 PM BST
I agree with shane's dog.
Report Shanelee1966 July 10, 2013 8:09 PM BST
He`s a rascal I tell ya, jumped on my laptop twice Devil
Report salmon spray July 14, 2013 12:34 PM BST
I'm not commenting on these people who want extra pts because their pin gets lucky         Silly
What I would point out,a bit belatedly as I have been away all week,is that if GEORGE's had won ( as it should have done as it was also my nap ) it was the same price as mine,with no way of separating us that I can see in the rules. It didn't happen and it won't very often but with 60+ rounds planned I would have thought it probably would at least once. How about rewarding the person who goes first.
Report DeSSieReborn July 16, 2013 9:54 AM BST
So triallists.....Feedback.

What do you feel is the best approach to this?
Report undecided July 17, 2013 2:07 PM BST
salmon as you rightly point out if George's had been a winner it would be a tie on points and P/L so I posted this earlier in the thread as a possible solution:

If there is a tie on pts and P/L and no-one missed a selection, then the next tie-breaker would be who had the bigger odds selections (winners & losers, cumulative odds).
Or actually the head-head record would be a better tie-breaker after the P/L, although in your case it wouldn't have applied.

I will though consider your suggestion of who posted first.
Report undecided July 17, 2013 2:29 PM BST
From the feedback given. I'd consider another bonus point, in addition to the Evens winner bonus point

Either
1. for a winner 3/1, 4/1 or 5/1 and over?
2. or for the player with the highest priced winner in the group stage

In our trial, in group 1, I finished above bettysboy by a point, I beat bettys in our match and bettysboy only managed two draws, but did get a nice 3/1 winner in the last match to finish with the better P/L.
An additional point for a 3/1 winner would have taken bettysboy level on points with me but above me on P/L.
I know you can't take this in isolation, it was a bit of a freakish 3/1 draw in that last match, but what do you think?
Report undecided July 17, 2013 2:33 PM BST
Or to keep it simpler, just have the one bonus point for a winner above a certain price, higher than the current Evens, maybe 2/1, and one bonus point for the group's highest priced winner?
Report undecided July 17, 2013 2:39 PM BST
Sorry just thinking as I write, one of the things players weren't entirely comfortable with was getting a point for a draw (both players picking losers), where another player lost while picking a winner and got nothing.
My previous suggestion would probably make that worse.
I think the Evens level for the bonus should stay.
Report china castle July 17, 2013 3:12 PM BST
Don't think its a problem getting a point when both pick losers , its a group format afterall and thats what makes this competition different than the many others.
Report undecided July 17, 2013 3:17 PM BST
ok thanks china, I'm still up for one of the options in my 14:29 post, just that the Evens bonus level should remain.
Report salmon spray July 17, 2013 3:26 PM BST
I think it's best left alone tbh.
I think you have to have a bonus pt for an evens or above selection or the/my tactic would simply be to look for as short a one as I could find.
Otherwise I think it should be matchplay and you don't get an extra point for putting 10 past Andorra nor for birdying a hole if your opponent does too.
Report bettysboy July 18, 2013 7:03 PM BST
Its matchplay - so my opinion is that you win/draw/lose each match. However as Champions League pay financial bonuses for each goal scored, then the equivalent is a tiered points system for the bigger prices. But to keep it simple I suggest +1 extra point for picking a winner above 2/1:
so :
3pts per win
1pt per draw
0pts for lose
+1 extra point for winner above 2/1
Report DeSSieReborn July 19, 2013 12:55 PM BST
Bonus points are going to cause you headaches UD Wink
Report salmon spray July 19, 2013 1:07 PM BST
That's why I think he should keep it simple,but I think the extra point for a winner at evens ( or maybe above ? ) is essential. Otherwise a lot of us will get bogged down with odds-on shots.
Report undecided July 19, 2013 1:37 PM BST
Yes further bonus points may needlessly complicate, but maybe the one for best winner in the group, could just keep a few more players in with a chance come the final game of the stage, which not only works for the player concerned but for the whole group as it will help keep more final games "honest".

I'd say the Evens level is ok.

Going back to the tie situation, do you think it should be P/L the first decider or H2H record?
Report Shanelee1966 July 22, 2013 9:40 PM BST
ud -just noticed you`re doing well in division 1, hope to see you next month Grin
Report undecided July 22, 2013 9:45 PM BST
thanks shane, yes could be 3 promotions in as many months, going through a purple patch.
Report Shanelee1966 July 22, 2013 9:46 PM BST
It didn`t go undecided unnoticed Grin
Report undecided August 21, 2013 1:51 PM BST
I will start a new thread recruiting for this, but will post all the details here to see if it reads ok.
Report undecided August 21, 2013 2:18 PM BST
Your Competitions Champions League 2013

This is a one-off, Horse Race tipping competition, in the style of the football champions league.

The aim is to get 128 players involved, but we'll see what numbers we get and work from there. If it looks like we'll only get around 64 then I will probably cap it there and we'll start later, missing out the first stage.
If we do get over 64 taking part then the competition will commence 9th September for 15 weeks, ending on 21st December.
If no more than 64 take part then we'll start a week later 16th September, for 12 weeks, ending on 7th December.

Players will be drawn into groups of 4, and each player will play each other once. Each match lasts one week, during which you only make one selection.
For each player that's 3 matches, 3 selections, over 3 weeks per group stage.
Depending on numbers I plan 5 group stages, see the rules section for details.

As it's matchplay, the main thing is to beat your opponents, not who gets the best P/L figures at the end. There is however a bonus point for selecting an Evens and above winner, irrespective of win lose or draw the match, and one more bonus point for best winner in the group. P/L figure may play a part at the end in the case of a tie on pts.

Start is penciled in for Monday 9th September but keep an eye out for a firm date.

If you are interested in joining in, PLEASE I BEG YOU to read the rules thoroughly, and be prepared to take part once a week for 15 weeks between September and Christmas, if good enough of-course! (see holiday cover). There is also a thread where we had a trial run of a group stage, you may wish to have a look through it to get acquainted with how it works although bear in mind we have tweaked the rules a bit since then, basically the same though.

Important - I will only accept selections posted under the player's forum name, i.e no posting for others (exception - see holiday cover section in rules).
I know a few of you post on behalf of friends in other competitions, but due to the matchplay nature of this one I will not accept that here.


Competition Format:

Maximum 128 players (If between 64 and 127 enter then I will adjust the 1st stage to suit)

1st Round (3 weeks) the 1st group stage, 128 players divided into 32 groups of 4. Each player plays each other once (3 matches each).
Top two from each group qualify to round 2.

2nd Round (3 weeks), second group stage, the 64 qualified from round 1 will be divided into 16 groups of 4 and again each player plays each other once, 2 from each group qualify.

3rd Round (3 weeks), next group stage, 32 qualified from 2nd Round are divided into 8 groups of 4, same again, top two qualify.

4th Round (3 weeks), 4th group stage, 16 qualified from 3rd Round are divided into 4 groups of 4, only the winner goes through.

Final Group Stage (3 weeks) - the last 4 standing, 3 final matches each to determine the champion.

Draws will take place on the Sunday before each new group stage, I will need someone's help for this. The plan is for two of us to simultaneously and independently post a full player list, in random order, and a random order group list for that player list to slot into.



Group stage match format:

Within each match, players will be required to pick one horse, win only, any price. You may not pick the same selection as your opponent.
Players can pick any time Monday to Saturday (the duration of the match).  Sundays will be for catching up on results and making draws.
There will be a cut-off for all selections on Saturday - the time of the first UK/Irish race. You will have the choice therefore, you can pick at leisure during the week, running the risk of showing your hand to your opponent, or of waiting to play on Saturday to prevent that. During the week, you may select right up to the scheduled race time (one minute before), so you may have the advantage of seeing the market moves. Obviously if you pick a loser early week then you give your opponent a long window to find that odds-on cert, but you may be able to exert extra pressure with a winner.

Once you post a selection, you can't change it, unless it's a duplicate or non-runner.
You are not allowed to leave reserves.


Scoring (Industry SP used for prices):

A match winner will get 2pts, but there will be the possibility of winning a bonus point for making a winning selection on or above the price of Evens, irrespective of winning or losing the match. If a match is drawn, both with the same priced winner, or both losers, then it's 1pt each.
There will also be a chance for one additional bonus point, awarded at the end of the group stage, to the player with the biggest priced winner. If there is a tie for biggest priced winner, the bonus point will not apply.

Possible match scenarios:
Player A picks a winner under evens and Player B picks a loser - Player A gets 2pts, Player B gets 0pts.
Player A picks a winner evens or over and Player B picks a winner under evens - Player A gets 3pts, Player B gets 0pts.
Player A picks a winner evens or over and Player B picks a winner evens or over but a lesser price than Player A - Player A gets 3pts, Player B gets 1pt.
Player A picks a winner evens or over and Player B picks a winner of identical price - Player A gets 2pts, Player B gets 2pts.
Player A picks a loser and Player B picks a loser, or both pick identical winners below Evens - Player A gets 1pt, Player B gets 1pt.



Non-runners:

If a player does not select or picks a duplicate or picks a non-runner (non-runners/duplicates evident before the Saturday cut-off can be replaced) then they will be assigned a selection - Last race fav. (If jt. favs then lowest number on the card). If both players in a match end up with non-runners then it will be 1pt each.

If a player just doesn't turn up for at least one of the three group matches then they are out irrespective of pts gained through assigned LRFs.


Tied on points:

Tie-breakers at the end of group stages as follows:

1. Any player that missed a selection (including picking a duplicate) will be penalised
2. Head to head record between tied players
3. Overall Profit/Loss figure
4. Higher aggregate prices for all three selections


Holiday cover

If you know that you will be away and cannot post for any match, I will accept a post on your behalf as follows:

You must notify in advance of the match that you will not be posting.
You can either email me your selection or
email to someone else to post on your behalf or
nominate someone to select for you.

I will not accept posts on your behalf unless approved by me in advance of the match in question.
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