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29 May 10
12:29
Joined:
Date Joined:
04 Jan 04
Just to confirm i am withdrawing from the compy at
the end of this month .
I have had enough of the absurd watering policy on
most of the flat courses and the lack of information
from the clerks of courses . [ see clerkwatch thread on ante-post forum].
To me this makes any form study a total waste of time .
Newmarket & Haydock this afternoon will probably be a perfect example with rain now falling on tracks that have been watered and goodness knows where any track bias may or may not be .
I don't really follow the NH game so it's best if i step down and let someone else have a bash .
A sincere thanks to every single player involved , it's a good compy played in a fair and sprited way by everyone .
Many thanks as ever to UD for running the compy so smoothly and to others who have helped out with the scoring .
I shall still watch the compy from a distance with interest .
All the best cc .
the end of this month .
I have had enough of the absurd watering policy on
most of the flat courses and the lack of information
from the clerks of courses . [ see clerkwatch thread on ante-post forum].
To me this makes any form study a total waste of time .
Newmarket & Haydock this afternoon will probably be a perfect example with rain now falling on tracks that have been watered and goodness knows where any track bias may or may not be .
I don't really follow the NH game so it's best if i step down and let someone else have a bash .
A sincere thanks to every single player involved , it's a good compy played in a fair and sprited way by everyone .
Many thanks as ever to UD for running the compy so smoothly and to others who have helped out with the scoring .
I shall still watch the compy from a distance with interest .
All the best cc .
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Good Luck. It appears Hugh Taylor agrees.
The big betting race of the day takes place at Newmarket, in the shape of the Coral.co.uk Sprint Handicap, and there are two or three runners in that race that interest me, but unfortunately my advice is to leave Newmarket alone from a betting point of view. With the stalls back on the stands side, and rain forecast, it's anybody's guess as to whether we will see the same degree of stands-side bias that we saw on day two of the Guineas meeting; most serious punters nowadays are only too aware that draw biases are no longer guaranteed to be replicated from one meeting to another, and unfortunately my plea for tracks to try and give us some indicator of where the best ground may be by giving going stick readings across the track, rather than just one "master reading", has largely fallen on deaf ears. I have had just four replies to my email to clerks, three of which were from the clerks at Chester, Wolverhampton and Pontefract, which don't have straight tracks, where my suggestion wouldn't apply, and the lack of an overall response to what I thought was a positive request really does leave me shaking my head.
On the positive side, I did have a very helpful email from Andrew Cooper, clerk at Sandown and Epsom, who had already shown his initiative last year when producing (without any prompting from me!) stick readings for the stands side as well as the far side at Epsom. I spoke to Andrew at Sandown on Thursday evening, and he has promised to provide stick readings on both sides of the track for the Derby meeting next week (TurfTrax themselves provide the readings for the big meetings), and if the case arises where there is overnight rain at Sandown he has said he'll try and provide readings for the "under the hedge" stands side at Sandown as well. I'm also fairly confident that Chris Stickels will again provide stick readings for the far side, middle and stands side at Royal Ascot, as he has done since last year's controversial Royal meeting. Sadly, it doesn't seem many other clerks are keen to be on board; I don't know why this should be, but there does seem to be a feeling that many clerks are very suspicious of the going stick overall as a guide to the going, as it often tells them something different to what their own experience of how the track rides is telling them. This I can understand for sure, but my suggestion for stick readings across the track is comparing like with like, not two differing methods of assessment; I can understand that it must be frustrating when the stick readings are not consistent with how the track is going to ride, but what I am asking is for stick readings to be compared to each other, across the track. This, to me, could turn out to be the most helpful long-term use of the going stick.
Perhaps clerks are afraid of the stick readings revealing a track bias, and that they will be considered to have done a poor job if they admit there is a favoured part of the track. Let's be in no doubt; track biases are an inevitable part of turf racing, and it doesn't mean the clerk has screwed up if there is a bias. What is wrong, however, is trying to get rid of a bias by watering, and/or without telling the racing and betting public. This is a really important topic - if people in my situation find themselves advising people not to have a bet, and if punters lose confidence in betting on Flat racing, this is long-term going to have an impact on the Levy. Sadly, we still are not receiving enough information; for instance, the BHA website as of 9.15 this morning reveals that Beverley are reporting a going stick reading of "9 at Wednesday at 16.30", with no explanation for the lack of update; given the difficulty in interpreting how the straight at Beverley is going to ride these days, I'm amazed they are not giving racing people and punters more up-to-date information.
The big betting race of the day takes place at Newmarket, in the shape of the Coral.co.uk Sprint Handicap, and there are two or three runners in that race that interest me, but unfortunately my advice is to leave Newmarket alone from a betting point of view. With the stalls back on the stands side, and rain forecast, it's anybody's guess as to whether we will see the same degree of stands-side bias that we saw on day two of the Guineas meeting; most serious punters nowadays are only too aware that draw biases are no longer guaranteed to be replicated from one meeting to another, and unfortunately my plea for tracks to try and give us some indicator of where the best ground may be by giving going stick readings across the track, rather than just one "master reading", has largely fallen on deaf ears. I have had just four replies to my email to clerks, three of which were from the clerks at Chester, Wolverhampton and Pontefract, which don't have straight tracks, where my suggestion wouldn't apply, and the lack of an overall response to what I thought was a positive request really does leave me shaking my head.
On the positive side, I did have a very helpful email from Andrew Cooper, clerk at Sandown and Epsom, who had already shown his initiative last year when producing (without any prompting from me!) stick readings for the stands side as well as the far side at Epsom. I spoke to Andrew at Sandown on Thursday evening, and he has promised to provide stick readings on both sides of the track for the Derby meeting next week (TurfTrax themselves provide the readings for the big meetings), and if the case arises where there is overnight rain at Sandown he has said he'll try and provide readings for the "under the hedge" stands side at Sandown as well. I'm also fairly confident that Chris Stickels will again provide stick readings for the far side, middle and stands side at Royal Ascot, as he has done since last year's controversial Royal meeting. Sadly, it doesn't seem many other clerks are keen to be on board; I don't know why this should be, but there does seem to be a feeling that many clerks are very suspicious of the going stick overall as a guide to the going, as it often tells them something different to what their own experience of how the track rides is telling them. This I can understand for sure, but my suggestion for stick readings across the track is comparing like with like, not two differing methods of assessment; I can understand that it must be frustrating when the stick readings are not consistent with how the track is going to ride, but what I am asking is for stick readings to be compared to each other, across the track. This, to me, could turn out to be the most helpful long-term use of the going stick.
Perhaps clerks are afraid of the stick readings revealing a track bias, and that they will be considered to have done a poor job if they admit there is a favoured part of the track. Let's be in no doubt; track biases are an inevitable part of turf racing, and it doesn't mean the clerk has screwed up if there is a bias. What is wrong, however, is trying to get rid of a bias by watering, and/or without telling the racing and betting public. This is a really important topic - if people in my situation find themselves advising people not to have a bet, and if punters lose confidence in betting on Flat racing, this is long-term going to have an impact on the Levy. Sadly, we still are not receiving enough information; for instance, the BHA website as of 9.15 this morning reveals that Beverley are reporting a going stick reading of "9 at Wednesday at 16.30", with no explanation for the lack of update; given the difficulty in interpreting how the straight at Beverley is going to ride these days, I'm amazed they are not giving racing people and punters more up-to-date information.
KK - Hi , best of luck to you in the Newbies team .
I read that piece by Hugh earlier on the clerkwatch
thread , it's a familiar tale nowadays i'm afraid .
I read that piece by Hugh earlier on the clerkwatch
thread , it's a familiar tale nowadays i'm afraid .
Normally, I would leave a stupid comment like Attention Seeker (Nap) but I feel pretty much the same way as you, CC
Always considered myself more of a flat man, but the constant watering/lack of information have rendered form stidy redundant & led to a couple of lean seasons & now much prefer the jumps as a spectacle & for punting.
Been treading (very) carefully so far this flat season & how I get on with my World Cup punting will decide how I approach the rest of the flat season
One thing's for sure, after the 1000 Guineas fiasco I will not bet on a straight track unless there are going stick readings for both sides of the course
Those in racing should realise there are plenty of other sports for punters to bet on - THEY are ruining the sport of flat racing imo
Good luck to you, CC
Always considered myself more of a flat man, but the constant watering/lack of information have rendered form stidy redundant & led to a couple of lean seasons & now much prefer the jumps as a spectacle & for punting.
Been treading (very) carefully so far this flat season & how I get on with my World Cup punting will decide how I approach the rest of the flat season
One thing's for sure, after the 1000 Guineas fiasco I will not bet on a straight track unless there are going stick readings for both sides of the course
Those in racing should realise there are plenty of other sports for punters to bet on - THEY are ruining the sport of flat racing imo
Good luck to you, CC
A bold move cc, many of us feel exactly the same way. Punters are treated like something Nic Coward has trodden in; with total and utter contempt.
Those at the top probably have a good s**** whenever important issues about transparency are raised.
When the house of cards finally falls and the dust has settled, maybe people will finally see, the likes of Savill and Coward and cohorts have killed the game stone dead. Gross Profits tax, clearly the more punters lose the more racing receives (or so it was hoped) was the final nail in t' coffin. Did they think punters were so stupid they wouldn't recognise the implications of such a tax?
Good luck cc, hopefully you will still find time to add the the clerkwatch thread / facebook group, and catch up with the fun?
Those at the top probably have a good s**** whenever important issues about transparency are raised.
When the house of cards finally falls and the dust has settled, maybe people will finally see, the likes of Savill and Coward and cohorts have killed the game stone dead. Gross Profits tax, clearly the more punters lose the more racing receives (or so it was hoped) was the final nail in t' coffin. Did they think punters were so stupid they wouldn't recognise the implications of such a tax?
Good luck cc, hopefully you will still find time to add the the clerkwatch thread / facebook group, and catch up with the fun?
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