I think it's so Unfair

of course it wasn't fair.  but the x factor is not fair.

it's about cowell getting what he wants.  the sing-off was invented (after louis, itv, the XF website, dermot on saturday, and cowell on xtra factor last week - all stating it was down to the public vote) to keep cher in ahead of mary.

this year has been more manipulated than any i've ever seen, but nothing surprises me with this show any more.

come on lou - you have to admit this show is just one big pantomime these days?

did cowell really say on xtra factor gtl?

ok not explicitly, but i think it was something like (in the wake of wagner's elimination):

this show is not back in the hands of the public, which is how it should be.

something like that.  wish i had a clip.

if we had that it would be different, but i cant find any conclusive proof that the sing off wasnt planned. did dermot actually say it? not 100 per cent sure....

I would be very surprised if Offcom do not fine xfactor over tonight.

Xfactor might say they have no control over what is said in tv listings but there is no way they could argue that they had not seen those same tv listings themselves and their press office would have been aware all week that people were voting on the belief that the contestant with the lowest public vote would get eliminated.

They should have a responsibilty to correct what they could see all week was the publics understanding an elimination on the lowest public votes would happen. That understanding was afterall based on tv listings and comments from the judges themselves.

If reports are correct that Louis publically stated to the public that it would be an elimation on the lowest public vote they dont have a leg to stand on.

Dermots carefully chosen words on the show over the weekend add more evidence that the show tonight was fixed to keep the other contestants in over Mary. Thats twice now he has been complicit in fixed eliminations.

if Cher was bottom of the vote

this will fester all week - at some stage someone will break rank.

Simon may have gone too far this time....it's a bit like Caligula trying to make his horse a consul

dermot said (and although you can argue this doesn't rule out a sing off, it's clearly implied):

your votes alone can get your favourites through to the final

or words to that effect.

Toady O'Leary has been doing his master's bidding all series in the expectation of getting the usa XF job. He even turned down dancing with the stars to keep it free. Seems now cowellis realising yanks won't put up with 3 brits (subtitles for Biffa bad enough).

Michael Moore would be taking cowell to court ocer the rigging tonight. Mmmm. Costs pennies to take someone to small claims court. Would cowell contest it? Any takers?

I would be as surprised if Cher did not have the lowest vote tonight as i would be if Katie had not the lowest vote on the three times she was saved by the sing off. The two times Katie went to deadlock it seemed carefully planed that way so to give her credibility that the public saved her.

Cowell have won the public arround over the years. They warmed to his straight talking and did not mind his ego as he worked at having an image of not minding others take the hand out of him but over this whole series he has treated those same people with absolute contempt and treated the public like mugs.

Folk dont like rich people treating them like fools and mugs.

They say 'words to that effect' every single week. And every single week there has been a sing-off.  I really don't know what everyone is whinging about.

regular joe, when was the last time there was a sing off in the semi final?

I am sure there are a number of people in Cowells inner circle that know exactly what has went on and just how much control and influence Cowell has over the show and the other judges and how things have been fixed at Cowells behest.

But it tells you everything about how much they value their job and know the influence Cowell has over the whole media that none have broken silence. They fear their careers would be finished if they crossed Cowell and they would probably be right.

It's not about who is the best singer as Mary obviously was. It's about who is going to be the easiest to manipulate and sell to the tone deaf general public.

artie

I just think it's such a shame that's all.  Mary could sing with the best of them and 5th is a good finish but if they won't let her win because of her age and size then why let her enter in the first place.  It's like queueing outside a club for an hour only to be told when you finally get to the front you can't come in.  Just bad.

Why bother with the sing off?

It's a farce.

The actual result is supposed to be what the Sunday evening show is all about and yet it gets relegated to a sideshow, with Dermot O'Muppett having to hurry the judges along (yeah, because we so much want to see the Black Eyed Peas rework Blade Runner don't we folks).

Then we have the farce of two acts supposedly singing for their lives, when the second act always gets saved and the deal is done not on the performances in the sing off but on notional ideas of 'who the public wants to see' and 'who has the potential to go further', all somothered with a garnish of judges protection their future careers in the 'Simon Cowell World of W@nk'.

Exactly roger.

quality post roger.

The 'sing-off' concept is a complete farce yes. They may as well just say, 'you two are the bottom 2.....Simon, who do you want to ditch'?

LOU -Mary would have been better off entering Britains got T.Anyway ,if she finds a good agent her future is assured now.There's no chance of ANYONE of her age and appearance winning the X Factor.They are allowed to enter to be "cannon fodder".

The whole tenor of Sturday night's show was that Mary was a goner.

All the judges were so patronising. At some point every one of them more or less came out with 'It's been a fantastic journey for you....what ever happens you're not going back to Tesco's' line, in fact short of patting her on her wee little Oirish head and telling her 'Well done me little darlin' but sling yer hook now' it couldn't have been more obvious they wanted her out.

As we all agree, the fact she sang Cher into a cocked hat in the riseable sing off, counted for sweet FA.

Didnt louis walsh slip up when Dermot asked whats next for Mary, I swear he went to say she is going to release an album then realised what he was saying and shut up.

Some good points here but can't believe anyone really thinks mary sang better in the sing off.

Cher's version of the Britney song was beautiful and nearly had Minogue in tears

"had Minogue in tears". Probably crying in pain at Cher's unmusical wailing.

Chers performance was awful and she knew it had to resort to crying, kept glancing at Mary too.

I didn't like the crying. It doesn't come over well at all.

Her singing was good though and she really touched dannii, you could see it.
Considering the needle between them from the 'Hmmmm' moment on Saturday, it mended the fences a bit.

regarding cher’s sing off performance, i thought it was very strained and at times it was just screechy noise.

i can’t believe anyone really thinks cher sang better in the sing off.

Just seen you can get 5/1 cher to have beaten mary in the public vote wouldnt take 20/1 personally.

Journey

To each his own onbiopusly but I thought Mary was a mile clear in the sing off.

Important to remember it's not a singing or talent contest.It's a soap opera.

Inclined to agree with you Artie after yesterday

The thing what got me was all series when the judges vote Dermot has been saying "As always we will start with Simon" yet last week they go to Louis first to get rid of Wagner and then this week do the same so Dannii votes before Simon to get rid of Mary. Also all series when Dannii votes she always says something along the lines of "as always I will judge on the quality of the singing in the show and the sing off" yet this week she gives a load of bull about Cher having more potential.

Total fix

Wheelbarrow

Yes strange that.  Danni completely going against her reasoning in the past.

She knows which side her bread is buttered when it comes to furthering her XF career.

HTH

plus just looked at last years show, week 8, 5 left the week before the semi final and no judges vote just lowest vote and Lloyd Daniels left.

Not that im bitter for losing money on Cher to go or anything lol

Cher was better for me. Mary is a cabaret singer at best, and only in this competition due to her nationality. Cher deserved to go through, very pleased a very average and dull singer such as Mary has gone. Wasn't that the 4th time this series we had heard her sing that tripe again, embarrassing stuff even by her standards.

A "cabaret singer at best". Quite a compliment.To be a cabaret singer one needs some ability whereas any talentless tosspot who captures the tone deaf public's imagination can be a pop star.

Very true.

And Cher is about as talentless as they come.

Very true. Testament to Mary's horrific relevance that she was deemed more pointless

Very true.

If Cher wasn't relevant, Cowell wouldn't have risked the credibility of a franchise he's exporting to the USA just to keep her in.
He knows she's more 'relevant' than the rest put together. Effectively he'll lie on the railtracks for her.

simon cowell has zero clue about modern music and has no relevance.  he just knows how to sell bland crap.

he has never discovered or produced one act that in 20 years time will be remembered as influential.  not a single one.

The only value that Mary gave was Tesco Value.

Which, I might add is pretty crap stuff.

I was hoping it would come to a fight. My money would be on on the Irish bomber against the Gypsy wailer

Great thread this one, amazing that Lou has posted on it and not managed to ruin it.

Cowell is going to kill the goose that lays the golden egg if he is not careful.  If the 'masses' catch on what he is doing then his brand and more importantly to him his bigger brand of 'simon cowell' is a busted flush!

Neither Mary or Cher can win the X factor and Cowell knows that but he obviously feels Cher brings much more to the party to make the final a better spectacle which as much as I dont like Cher I have to agree with him.  mary is just karaoke which we have all seen a million times before, Cher although not very good is a total one off for this type of program and definitely brings something different and maybe a different kind of viewer to the show.

The other judges are below contempt, the fact that they will contradict themselves, lie and lose all their integrity just to protect their jobs as Simons pathetic little lapdogs.

I`m not keen on cher rapping but think she is a sreet  mile ahead on talent.Rebecca does not have control of her voice yet but with coaching will be world class. Matt is great at the high notes but I wouldn`t want to listen to an album. Sc has staged managed 1d well but I think singing chasing cars showed them to be pretty poor.I can`t believe cher is 50/1 she is to me in a different league to 1d individually...but it is all about opinions

exactly koi cos imo cher and one direction are carp but i know more than u cos im in the industry

Lou - the show has always been a pantomime, and I find that it always helps to bear that in mind when punting!  If we take it too seriously, then we're liable to get shot down in flames by the obvious manipulation and cynical tactics each week - endless ramping, erratic running order, dodgy song choices, pimp slots, random double eliminations, sing offs etc.

Regardless of whether or not there should have been a sing off - and the respective merits of Cher versus Mary - we know what we're getting into when betting on the show.

Where I DO think that there is cause for complaint to OfCom is the blatant abuse of prime time TV to manipulate record sales (and therefore the charts) and promote their own acts.  I have written to ITV and OfCom twice about this subject.  There is no editorial balance - and the Sunday night show is merely an excuse for an hour long advert for Sony / XF related artists.

This has made the whole exploitation angle more relevant in the last two years, in my view.  This series has been ridiculous.  At one point two weeks ago, the top 10 best selling singles featured nine artists who had appeared on the Sunday night show.  Even this week, it accounts for eight out of the top 12 singles in the charts and seven out of the top 10 albums.  It's just terrible - and I don't understand why more people don't complain about these things...

That is why I wholeheartedly supported the concept or theory behind the whole RATM Christmas Number One bid last year - unfortunately those that orchestrated the campaign scored a bit of an own goal by choosing a Sony artist!  Or perhaps that wasn't a coincidence, after 'Hallelujah' gave Cowell and Sony another 1-2 the year before...

Dizzy

Well put.  Hear hear.

Could some explain what Cher is "relevant" to?

She is relevant to chavs and other yoofs of that ilk that would normally not be watching the X Factor final.

All the people who supported Mary will watch the final anyway!

HTH

Cher would be relevant singing to a bunch of New Age Travellers around a campfire somewhere in the middle of nowhere on Salisbury Plain.