World Cup 2014
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16 Jun 14
09:06
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Date Joined:
05 Apr 12
Written about 5 years ago but still relevant to today
"We may still fluke it through to the final of a world cup, after all, get to the knock out stage and its a 4 game version of the FA cup and if Sunderland can win the FA cup back in the 70’s then one year somebody is going to fluke the world cup. If that happens with England then I may look a little stupid, but be under no illusion, an England victory would be a fluke. Defeat’s however continue to bring out the simple solution mongers having a day off from duties as team members for Racing for Change. Sack the manager, change the board games in the hotel or maybe the ball was not regulation type. The truth is that we are technically inferior to too many other national sides and always have been. These days the illusion that we are perhaps up there with the Brazils of the world is intensified by our strong league, strengthened of course by overseas players. Lets ban or restrict them I hear you say, well this did not help in the 70’s and 80’s. No, the real problem is we do not know how to teach soccer. It’s not quite as bad as the 70’s and 80’s when I played and any player threading a 15yd pass and looking for a return at the edge of the box was told by nationally recognised coaches to stop fannying around. Indeed who can forget Jack Charlton’s immortal words when watching a group of Argentinians youngsters put on a ball juggling demo at half time in the Argentinian world cup of the 70’s. Things are no better today, as I have witnessed myself through my young son who was being coached by a county level coach. Youngsters are still groomed at the age of 7 to play in 11 a side games and by this raw age are labelled as centre half’s or full backs. An 11 a side game is one in which the individual players will get a fraction of a touch of the ball as they would in a small sided game and yet we continue to think that grooming for 11 a side is best done through 11 a side matches. We have also always historically been suspicious of skilful players, labelling them as lazy and preferring the do or die of the less skilled but more industrious types. How can the likes of Tony Currie only manage 19 caps, why did Alan Hudson, Stan Bowles, Rodney Marsh and the like struggle to gain places. Even Glen Hoddle was regularly questioned as an England player. In the summer and a world tournament it is these players playing on the bowling green like pitches that give us the best chance of securing a world cup, sadly we just don’t groom enough of them.
Is there any possibility of a change in our domestic outlook ?, well as I rejoice and wallow in the spectacle of the Barcelona Manchester United European cup final and the on field suggestion that a couple of divisions separate these two sides, I am greeted by half times comments by one of the favourites to become the next England manager. “Barcelona have a habit of over playing”. No Harry, we have a habit of underplaying. No doubt he was wondering, what sort of side could Barcelona really be if they could call on a bloody big centre forward.
If England is to be a world force in football we need to change our whole pre 16 coaching system, failing that the only alternative is to secure the Championships here in England, resurrect Derby’s baseball ground and play all England’s matches on it.
"
"We may still fluke it through to the final of a world cup, after all, get to the knock out stage and its a 4 game version of the FA cup and if Sunderland can win the FA cup back in the 70’s then one year somebody is going to fluke the world cup. If that happens with England then I may look a little stupid, but be under no illusion, an England victory would be a fluke. Defeat’s however continue to bring out the simple solution mongers having a day off from duties as team members for Racing for Change. Sack the manager, change the board games in the hotel or maybe the ball was not regulation type. The truth is that we are technically inferior to too many other national sides and always have been. These days the illusion that we are perhaps up there with the Brazils of the world is intensified by our strong league, strengthened of course by overseas players. Lets ban or restrict them I hear you say, well this did not help in the 70’s and 80’s. No, the real problem is we do not know how to teach soccer. It’s not quite as bad as the 70’s and 80’s when I played and any player threading a 15yd pass and looking for a return at the edge of the box was told by nationally recognised coaches to stop fannying around. Indeed who can forget Jack Charlton’s immortal words when watching a group of Argentinians youngsters put on a ball juggling demo at half time in the Argentinian world cup of the 70’s. Things are no better today, as I have witnessed myself through my young son who was being coached by a county level coach. Youngsters are still groomed at the age of 7 to play in 11 a side games and by this raw age are labelled as centre half’s or full backs. An 11 a side game is one in which the individual players will get a fraction of a touch of the ball as they would in a small sided game and yet we continue to think that grooming for 11 a side is best done through 11 a side matches. We have also always historically been suspicious of skilful players, labelling them as lazy and preferring the do or die of the less skilled but more industrious types. How can the likes of Tony Currie only manage 19 caps, why did Alan Hudson, Stan Bowles, Rodney Marsh and the like struggle to gain places. Even Glen Hoddle was regularly questioned as an England player. In the summer and a world tournament it is these players playing on the bowling green like pitches that give us the best chance of securing a world cup, sadly we just don’t groom enough of them.
Is there any possibility of a change in our domestic outlook ?, well as I rejoice and wallow in the spectacle of the Barcelona Manchester United European cup final and the on field suggestion that a couple of divisions separate these two sides, I am greeted by half times comments by one of the favourites to become the next England manager. “Barcelona have a habit of over playing”. No Harry, we have a habit of underplaying. No doubt he was wondering, what sort of side could Barcelona really be if they could call on a bloody big centre forward.
If England is to be a world force in football we need to change our whole pre 16 coaching system, failing that the only alternative is to secure the Championships here in England, resurrect Derby’s baseball ground and play all England’s matches on it.
"
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The proble with the other night was that England still play scared football, when we attacked against Italy we looked dangerous and caused them problems, but did that have us straining to wrestle possession away from them particularly in the first half...NO it never, we were still too scared to step out and compete in the midfield, we stood off them terrified that if we wandered too far we would be punished.
The truth is that for all guff being spouted about the likes of Pirlo in the last few days, the real truth is that any number of decent midfielders will hurt you if put under zero pressure and that's precisely the luxury we afforded him...zero pressure....stick a man on him and you won't see him for 90 minutes.
England should have taken the attitude that our sporadic pressure showed us that we can frighten them and should have competed to get the ball back quicker and put them under.
One other worrying aspect of the performance was just how badly we tired in the final 20 minutes,just when we needed to be stepping it up, we melted away and let them off the hook, our ability to handle conditions looks to be the big worry we all thought it would be.
If we were braver against the Italians, we'd have beaten them, but that scared mentality was still all too prevalent the other night.
The truth is that for all guff being spouted about the likes of Pirlo in the last few days, the real truth is that any number of decent midfielders will hurt you if put under zero pressure and that's precisely the luxury we afforded him...zero pressure....stick a man on him and you won't see him for 90 minutes.
England should have taken the attitude that our sporadic pressure showed us that we can frighten them and should have competed to get the ball back quicker and put them under.
One other worrying aspect of the performance was just how badly we tired in the final 20 minutes,just when we needed to be stepping it up, we melted away and let them off the hook, our ability to handle conditions looks to be the big worry we all thought it would be.
If we were braver against the Italians, we'd have beaten them, but that scared mentality was still all too prevalent the other night.
Part of the problem with tiring is contained in my original post. In the depth's of winter here in the uk you can run rabbit run rabbit for 90 minutes. In the summer in just about any country let alone a tropical one you need to keep the ball and make the ball work. We are ill prepared for such a game. You can see that after 3 passes our long ball gene kicks in and its 'Why are we not in their third of the field' mentality takes over. Of course this is born out of the fact that we are not comfortable on the ball. A 36 year old supreme ball players was going strong at the end the other night whilst our rabbits had run out of even duracel.
Some of my views you may find highly objectional.
For the record here goes.
England is full of millions of immigrants who cant play and dont support England.
The premiership has 72% foreiegn players the manager cant pick.
Our technical ability is woeful, our first touch, control,passing is poor,we cant keep the ball.
How many kids do you see playing football in the streets,parks?
The government has sold the schools playing fields,apart from the wealthy schools.
How many English players would make your world eleven.NONE.
We have not had world class players since,Charlton,Moore,Banks and Gascoigne.
Marradona practiced ball control with a golf ball.World class players dont have set rigid positions,where did Creuff,Best,Maraddona,Pele play?
We play eleven aside rather than 5 a side with the youngsters, 5 aside would promote skill,ball control.
For the record here goes.
England is full of millions of immigrants who cant play and dont support England.
The premiership has 72% foreiegn players the manager cant pick.
Our technical ability is woeful, our first touch, control,passing is poor,we cant keep the ball.
How many kids do you see playing football in the streets,parks?
The government has sold the schools playing fields,apart from the wealthy schools.
How many English players would make your world eleven.NONE.
We have not had world class players since,Charlton,Moore,Banks and Gascoigne.
Marradona practiced ball control with a golf ball.World class players dont have set rigid positions,where did Creuff,Best,Maraddona,Pele play?
We play eleven aside rather than 5 a side with the youngsters, 5 aside would promote skill,ball control.
Under age football is a problem (this is not my insight).
If a child had a birthday on 31st December (or late in the year) he is disadvantaged against a player with a birthday of 1st january (or any time early in the year).
This stupid system pits 10 year olds against 11 year olds. Or 6yo v 7yo.
What happens is the older and bigger player gets picked on the under age team. The others are told to **** off.
They get plenty of match experience, and continue to get picked all the way through the under age system until they are senior players
2014 England World Cup squad
Jack Wilshere (1 January 1992) (aged 22)
James Milner (4 January 1986) (aged 28)
Rickie Lambert (16 February 1982) (aged 32)
Phil Jones (21 February 1992) (aged 22)
2010 England World Cup squad
Peter Crouch (30 January 1981) (aged 29)
Robert Green (18 January 1980) (aged 30)
Gareth Barry (23 February 1981) (aged 29)
Jamie Carragher (28 January 1978) (aged 32)
Emile Heskey (11 January 1978) (aged 32)
2006 England World Cup squad
Gary Neville (18 February 1975) (aged 31)
Jamie Carragher (28 January 1978) (aged 28)
Owen Hargreaves (20 January 1981) (aged 25)
Jermaine Jenas (18 February 1983) (aged 23)
Peter Crouch (30 January 1981) (aged 25)
Theo Walcott (16 March 1989) (aged 17)
If a child had a birthday on 31st December (or late in the year) he is disadvantaged against a player with a birthday of 1st january (or any time early in the year).
This stupid system pits 10 year olds against 11 year olds. Or 6yo v 7yo.
What happens is the older and bigger player gets picked on the under age team. The others are told to **** off.
They get plenty of match experience, and continue to get picked all the way through the under age system until they are senior players
2014 England World Cup squad
Jack Wilshere (1 January 1992) (aged 22)
James Milner (4 January 1986) (aged 28)
Rickie Lambert (16 February 1982) (aged 32)
Phil Jones (21 February 1992) (aged 22)
2010 England World Cup squad
Peter Crouch (30 January 1981) (aged 29)
Robert Green (18 January 1980) (aged 30)
Gareth Barry (23 February 1981) (aged 29)
Jamie Carragher (28 January 1978) (aged 32)
Emile Heskey (11 January 1978) (aged 32)
2006 England World Cup squad
Gary Neville (18 February 1975) (aged 31)
Jamie Carragher (28 January 1978) (aged 28)
Owen Hargreaves (20 January 1981) (aged 25)
Jermaine Jenas (18 February 1983) (aged 23)
Peter Crouch (30 January 1981) (aged 25)
Theo Walcott (16 March 1989) (aged 17)
A major issuse is lack of qualified coaches and out of those that are qualified just what style are they teaching the kids. I posted this before and its written 4 years ago...
There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135.
There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135.
Another problem is that loads of the youth coaches are wannabe mourinhos who would rather win meaningless kids football matches than foster their talent. Every youth team just puts the fastest strongest kids up front.
You must live a die for the TEAM, do what ever it takes to make the TEAM the best it can be, to many I's at the moment. Australia the classic example. As individuals England have the the better players, as a team Australia would kick their Lilly White asses
Agree with OP. I bore my wife to death moaning about not keeping the ball/giving away too cheaply. From my experience of junior football (myself and my son good players) it's a case of win at all costs rather than trying to teach kids how to play good football. What does it matter that you beat Melwood Rovers 6-5 when you were 9?
You simply cant be good at all the sports in the World. If the English were honest with themselves, the only sports we have consistently been good at all the time are darts and snooker. Gee,I wonder why? Glug glug
The opening post contains a lot of opinion which could have come from my thoughts on soccer in these isles compared with the past .
None of the current English squad would have got on the 1966 team , what a comment that is given "developments " over the years . Not a new statement , have seen it happen in some other sports close to my heart . Whether it is skill levels or the way the game is played nowadays is an open question for debate .
In the days when England were a major international footballing nation ( even post the destruction by the Hungarians ) , kids did not learn their footballing skills the way they are "coached" nowadays . Most of the previous greats learnt to play football in completely different circumstances to nowadays .
The best footballer these isles ever produced ( and probably that statement will stand in perpetuity) was George Best . Best English player I ever saw was Duncan Edwards . I drive past Georges street regularly , and every time I have a vision of this wee lad playing football in the street from dawn to dusk , there were few alternatives in his day ( and mine was before his) . But it wasn't 11 a side , and he was probably a wee fellow playing against elders . But that brings its own dividend , if you are adept at avoiding trouble , pavements , walls , hedges , even a Honduran defender is kids play . Largely due to innate learning skills we have lurking in our DNA .
I am a firm believer in teaching kids any sort of ball skill in any sport , whether it involves balls , sticks , clubs , rackets , hurls ,etc . The younger the better , but without pressure ,has to be fun , and if they buy into the concept the better among them will twig what they are good at , comfortable with , and then devise their own methods to hone any particular skill . Coaches cant do that , most can only go back to relating to their own skills , which are disappearing generationally . And soon may disappear forever the way things look like going .
No answers so far , the sports fans among us should probably be grateful we are getting a plentiful supply of sport on our screens world wide , but increasingly it's not domestics involved .
None of the current English squad would have got on the 1966 team , what a comment that is given "developments " over the years . Not a new statement , have seen it happen in some other sports close to my heart . Whether it is skill levels or the way the game is played nowadays is an open question for debate .
In the days when England were a major international footballing nation ( even post the destruction by the Hungarians ) , kids did not learn their footballing skills the way they are "coached" nowadays . Most of the previous greats learnt to play football in completely different circumstances to nowadays .
The best footballer these isles ever produced ( and probably that statement will stand in perpetuity) was George Best . Best English player I ever saw was Duncan Edwards . I drive past Georges street regularly , and every time I have a vision of this wee lad playing football in the street from dawn to dusk , there were few alternatives in his day ( and mine was before his) . But it wasn't 11 a side , and he was probably a wee fellow playing against elders . But that brings its own dividend , if you are adept at avoiding trouble , pavements , walls , hedges , even a Honduran defender is kids play . Largely due to innate learning skills we have lurking in our DNA .
I am a firm believer in teaching kids any sort of ball skill in any sport , whether it involves balls , sticks , clubs , rackets , hurls ,etc . The younger the better , but without pressure ,has to be fun , and if they buy into the concept the better among them will twig what they are good at , comfortable with , and then devise their own methods to hone any particular skill . Coaches cant do that , most can only go back to relating to their own skills , which are disappearing generationally . And soon may disappear forever the way things look like going .
No answers so far , the sports fans among us should probably be grateful we are getting a plentiful supply of sport on our screens world wide , but increasingly it's not domestics involved .
It's quite simple why we fail. The FA don't choose the best manager and never have done. Redknapp would have started Barkley in both games. Probably Lallana as well.
Howard is right. The reason England continually fail is the FA dont choose the best manager anymore. The question though is why? I know many wont agree with this but I firmly believe that the establishment hate football and those that follow it and they actually dont want the three lions to succeed.
We all knew that Graham Taylor, McClaren and a host of others were inferior choices to others who could of got the post at their particular time. Any of us could have chosen better. How do they keep getting it wrong over and over again? The only answer I believe is they are doing it on purpose.
I honestly cannot reach any other conclusion
We all knew that Graham Taylor, McClaren and a host of others were inferior choices to others who could of got the post at their particular time. Any of us could have chosen better. How do they keep getting it wrong over and over again? The only answer I believe is they are doing it on purpose.
I honestly cannot reach any other conclusion
Brian Clough who arguably was the best English manager(in his day)who took two unfasionable clubs to win the old div1 and win TWO European Cups never got the job.
He was outspoken and said exactly what he thought and the FA didnt fancy that.
Back to present day until the FA make the premiership reduce the 72% of foreigners(at the expense of ENGLISH) playing in the prem NOTHING will change whoever the manager.
He was outspoken and said exactly what he thought and the FA didnt fancy that.
Back to present day until the FA make the premiership reduce the 72% of foreigners(at the expense of ENGLISH) playing in the prem NOTHING will change whoever the manager.
the reason why england fail is because of the denial and delusion suffered by the last two posters. the manager is the problem? wake up ffs.
if you think managers dont make a difference to the same bunch of players ive got just two names for you
1 Alex Ferguson
2 Daidid Moyes
Same players, different results
1 Alex Ferguson
2 Daidid Moyes
Same players, different results
OliasOfSunhillow,iprefertolay. fantastic perfect posts, couldn`t have put it better myself. I`ll just add to your posts regarding the England football team.YOU CAN NOT MAKE A SILK PURSE OUT OF A SOWS EAR. The players are simply not there.
It's time the players realised they're actually average, mentally too weak and probably don't push themselves enough - what sort of a talk was Gerrard giving about how terrible it is to go out early ? I think if the Germans heard that they would p*ss themselves laughing. All you hear from them is confidence and a fixation on winning - they don't focus on the negative. I wont even mention our wet flannel of a manager - he's about as much use as our useless FA. Ashamed for these pampered darlings.
It's more than the manager or the players although they are responsible as well. It's the whole system from top to bottom.
Joe Hart quote " we had Uruguay on the rack, i think they'll admit that"
What a disgraceful statement , this is why England are out with bullshit like this
What a disgraceful statement , this is why England are out with bullshit like this
Really don't see anything different here to any other sport England participate in
Do top English players get paid less in the Premiership than foreign players then? If so, this would suggest that they are worse then there foreign counterparts, but my guess is they don't get paid less, so this would suggest that they are as good as them. Wayne Rooney springs to mind.
costa,already through,england 1.85 to win,that defies all logic,LAY ENGLAND WIN.
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