maradona is the greatest world cup player since1970

the last two words were very necessary.
yes maraddona was great....but...pele had everything,speed dribbling
heading{without needing to use his hand},and ,unlike maradonna,could use both feet.

Maradonna overrated.Cheated against England . Scored a so called wonder goal when England were still realling from him cheating.They say he won that world cup on his own which is a load of rubbish. If that defender( that no one remembers) hadn't of stopped Lineker scoring England might of  won.

Possibly. If it hadn't been for a player called Johan Cruyff.

Maradonna overrated? Of all the unintelligable twaddle that you come out with on here, those two words take the cake. In England, certainly, he is underrated. Mainly due to the Hand of God thing, but also because he is a horrible, arrogant, drug addled Argie. All of which is true but has no bearing on his footballing ability, which was incomparable. I suggest you have a thoroughly enjoyable half hour or so researching him on youtube.

Maradona overrated agree with Desmond, only a clown could come out with that statement

If he is under rated in England why was his goal voted the best ever scored in the World cup in this country?

Because sometimes even a blind dog p155es up a lamp-post........

Got to be Maradonna.  Always played at top level and teams still cud not stop him

Zidane.
Always played at the very top level for a long time, more consistently great and won more trophies particularly in club football which is of a higher standard in Europe.

Also he had to play against much better defenders who were physically much faster and stronger and better drilled teams tactically.

Zidane for sure. Even with the head-butt, France would have been well beat by Brazil in the quater-finals without him, despite the fact that he only had about 60% fitness. And a complete team player.

Johan Cruyff

Zidane? Cantona was better than him.

Maradona was without doubt the most amazing player. Anyone who watched him during the WC in 86 or throughout his time with Barca and Napoli will testify to that. He was beyond compare, immense and I am priveliged to have been around to see him. Speaking as a lover of football.

fat ronaldo

for about 4 seasons he was the best thing ive ever seen

I'm not saying he wasn't a great player but , Best was better.

EFC DEC 1974
Joined: 17 Feb 07
Replies: 66 01 Jul 10 17:11   
Maradona was without doubt the most amazing player. Anyone who watched him during the WC in 86 or throughout his time with Barca and Napoli will testify to that. He was beyond compare, immense and I am priveliged to have been around to see him. Speaking as a lover of football. 

Where did everyone seem to watch Maradona at this time? Italian and Spanish football was hardly ever shown on tv then. Loads of people seem to make this statement despite not seeing him regularly.

Zidane is the best player of the last 20 years to refute this is ludicrous. The guy won everything, and his contributions were unbelievable. Goals in World Cups, Euros, League matches, CL matches EVERYTHING! I unlike others wont blindly say Maradonna was the greatest because Im 28 I simply didnt see him at his best.

fat Ronaldo too, had it all. Messi I think will get there only time will tell

Maradona is beyond comparison imo total magician.

Zidane was an amazing player but he won most of his club trophies in a star-filled galactico madrid team and at international level he had a far stronger team around him than maradona. The best way i can put this is if you had put  Maradona into any of the teams in the Last 8 in 86 wc then they would have won the cup. he also had most of his success in Europe at Napoli who had Knowhere near the prestige and class of madrid. There is no comparison

Argentina had a much stronger squad in 1986 than people on here seem to think. Evidence of this is the fact that the Argentine press keep saying this is their strongest squad since 1986.
Also Maradona'a Napoli had many Italian internationals and the other two foreign players at he club were Brazils number 9 at the time - Careca and a Brazilian international central midfielder.

he was a great player - thats all I can say. lovely ball control

1 maradona
2 cryuff
3 pele.

the big 3 special players imo

messi is not even close to the maradona of old.
the old fart was bad-ass back in the days.

Pele and Cruyff before my time.

From the tournaments i've seen

1. Maradona
2. Zidane
3. Platini
4. Zico
5. Ronaldo
6. Hagi

Interesting you say Zidane. There is a myth that he won France the 1998 WC, but the reality is he was poor up untill the final and the French press were saying he and Guivarch were the most ineffective players. Yet people remember it as if he dominated the tournament.

Thats true, though he was great in the Final (which counts for a lot) and in 2006 he was awesome v Spain and against Brazil he played as well in one match as anyone other than Maradona:Brazil were odds on, Kaka,Ronaldo and Ronaldinho (at his peak) were all on the pitch ,and he just looked a class above all of them .

maradona god,genius,the greatest player i have ever seen..that 1986 world cup,how one player's brilliance turned a decent team into world champions....i am english and love my country,i hold no grudge against diego....maradona has got his players sweating blood for there country when they play........................................................

i agree with jamdav about france in 98.they won it with a solid defence and central midfield, like most teams that win the world cup do

Yeah, I think his performances towards the end of the 2006 WC were the best I ever seen from him. To be fair Ronaldinhio was having a poor WC, but in the 2 seasons before that he had been a far better player than Zidane in Spain.

66 charlton
70 pele
74 muller
78 kempes
82 zico
86 maradona
90 gascoigne
94 nobody
98 ronaldo
02 ronaldo
06 zidane
10 up for grabs

the 74 final between holland and germany was shown in its entirety about a year ago, and holland were absolutely miles better than germany ,total travesty that they got beat.
think the muller goal was about 1 of 2 or 3 chances they had.
74 belongs to Cryuff imo

66 Eusebio
90 Mattheus
94 Romario

fair point about cruyff and romario is a good shout for that poor 94 tournament,i cant have any player other than gascoigne at 90 though.

Matthaeus was tremendous, though yes, Gazza got the better of him in the Semi.

The German team was brilliant in the early matches; Absolutely annihilated a very strong  Yugoslav
team in the group in one of the best team performances i've seen, then beat a great dutch team in the match of the tournament .Peaked too soon, but still had enough to go on and win it.

01 Edson Arantes do Nascimento - PELÉ (3 world cups, almost 1300   goals)
02 Mané Garrincha

the world cups pre the massive surge in televising football were summat special.
players who had massive reputations but you hadn't seen were awaited with bated breath.
the anticipation made the tournament, but we know the players inside out at club level now.

Cant remember Pele,but how come his best clips dont end in a goal?..half way line shot,and the dummy on the goalie both missed,and the pass that set up alberto's goal was run of the mill for a top player...His 1300 goals came from playing against hopeless teams,games ending 14 nil

indeed,i still remember staying up late and watching the 1978 world cup and seeing players who's names i didnt even know.The tickertape and noise left a lasting impession,not to mention the likes of luque,kempes ,rensenbrink,johnny rep etc
Basking in nostagia is quite good for the soul sometimes,anyways if i had to pick one player it would probably be maradona.

first one i remember too , Cubillas

vaguely remember him but it was the peruvian goalkeeper who took my eye with his incessant charging out to meet the ball, particularly in the 6-0 defeat to argentina.At the time i thought he was a bit crazy of course i now know better !

jasey,
The most incredible goals of Pelé were distroyed by fire which took place in a brazilian TV (Record).
I know personally some of Santos football players from the sixties, like Mengálvio, Edu, Pepe. You can't believe in theirs histories. Of course football was not so comercial and professional as today, but Pelé scored many goals in corinthians with Rivelino, Palmeiras with Ademir da Guia, São Paulo with Gerson, Botafogo with Garrincha, Cruzeiro with Tostão. He was an athelete, Just imagine him playing today in a perfect grass, jabulanies and so on...

jasey
Joined: 22 Jul 08
Replies: 32 01 Jul 10 22:37   
Cant remember Pele,but how come his best clips dont end in a goal?..half way line shot,and the dummy on the goalie both missed,and the pass that set up alberto's goal was run of the mill for a top player...His 1300 goals came from playing against hopeless teams,games ending 14 nil

What a load os sh1t. Pele had a better scoring record in the WC than Maradona and thats despite the fact he never played a full tournament at his peak. Also look at his international record which is far better tham Maradonas.

leilam,
Not saying he was'nt great,because you here players like Charlton,Best,Cryuff saying he was the best,just wish there was more footage

pele played in a team of world class players maradonna did not and still won the world cup theres no comparison!!

Pele played two World Cup finals, before and after his peak and scored 3 goals. Maradona played two WC finals and didnt score a goal. Its not all about goals but Pele was Man of the Match in both finals.
As for questioning Peles goalscoring record. Domestically in Brazil he got 585 in 609 games, you can say this is against easy opposition but the fact is the brazilian league would arguably hav been the strongest in the world at the time and his record dwarfs the other great Brazilians around at the time - Jarizinhio, Rivelino, Tostao etc.

the sheer physics suggest maradonna was greater he was a dwarf and players could tackle from behind when maradonna was playing he kept getting battered and still couuld prouduce brilliance

People could tackle from behind when Pele played. He was hacked out of the 1966 World Cup. Size of the player has nothing to do with deciding who was better.

JamDav,
I would expect Pele to have a better scoring record than Maradona,he was a striker,Diego was attacking midfielder

I except wat your saying Jamdav,but the games Pele scored in Brazil league are dubious.He would not have scored as many if he had played in Spain or Italy

I'm not taking the mickey but was the brazil league so bad?
How come the national team that had league players in it was so good?

It's just what i have heard in topics on the radio..

But the Brazilian league was probably the strongest in the world at the time. Whenever Santos played the top european teams pele still banged them in, and these games were not friendlies back then. Also as I said earlier if the Brazilian league was so bad why did other Brazilian legends such as Tostao, Rivelino and Jairzinhio have goalscoring records that were nothing like Peles, nowhere near as good. The best attacking players in the world were playing in Brazil and he was THE ONLY one scoring this amount of goals.
Dont forget at 17 years of age he scored 6 goals in 3 games at the World Cup - int he quarter, semi and final.

Off the telly ,but there is a view in brazil that Pele wasn't even the greatest Brazillian player.
I've never been to Brazil so can't get the word off the street, but who do you think was his rival?
If you get it in one then there may be summat to it!

Just cause played against a few rubbish teams in brazil league, doesnt mean players are bad..All i am saying is from what i have heard half brazil league was good teams, the rest made up of teams which would be english 3rd division standard

Garrincha , Brodie?

I have read that some people prefered Garincha, largely as he was seen as keeping closer to his working class roots and they could relate with him.
Another point on Pele not playing in Europe would be that in the early 1960's they played an intercontental cup with the winners in europe and South America playing one another. These games were treated as seriously as the European Cup final in those days by both sides. Pele scored 2 away to benfica, 2 away to AC Milan and 3 at home to AC Milan. 7 goals in 3 games aganist Europes best.

Maradona's World Cup Record

1982 - One decent game, one average game, found out twice against strong opposition (sent off)
1986 - Brilliant, made a decent Argentinian team look outstanding
1990 - He was distinctly average. Very lucky to get through group (3rd!). Two dire pen shoot-outs to get to final - awful in final, possibly injured
1994 - Embarrasing drug cheat

How 1986 is all we remember (mainly due to England being directly involved)

How many people saw other Argentinian internationals?
How many peoply saw him regularly in club football?

He barely has any medals in his cupboard

Great player, but incomparable to Pele

i get what you mean.Brazil is a country of massive extremeties between poor and rich.
I can understand how there would be say 4 super rich teams (relatively speaking)  and the rest having basically very little.

extremes *

look what he did for napoli

The Brazillian serie A was only founded in 1971..Before this teams played in state leagues,which is why there was no strenght in depth

yes lads ,it was Garrincha.

makes me laugh when people question Pele's goalscoring record - he scored 77 goals for Brazil in 92 apps and that's the highest level of the game.

Napoli were the second biggest spenders in Italy at the time and their team included many Italian internationals along with 2 Brazilian internationals - Careca, the Brazilian number 9 at the time and a Brazilian intl midfielder I cant remember the name of. They DID NOT have the poor side that many people try and make out they did.

i am not knocking his international record one bit

'How many people saw other Argentinian internationals?
How many peoply saw him regularly in club football?'

tbf you seem to be suggesting that we can't judge him to be the best ever
because we saw little of him poppy.
pretty sure if you ask argentinians as well as italians they will say he was the best ever.
what i saw of him he stood out like a beacon. genius sort of hits you.
you can cite records all you like ,imo

Don't agree with that Poppy

No one can argue with what he did in '86 . In 1990 the Argentine team was dire, probably the worst to make the  Final. That they got there was largely thanks to him carving up the Brazilian defence to set up Cannigia. Even in 1994 he was superb in the 2 games he played - aged 34 or so? - and no can really say the cocaine was enhancing his performance can they?

As for medals, to win Serie A twice - with Napoli! - when it was at its absolute peak, was amazing .That team had Careca and i can't recall who else , and they were up against a Milan side that was one of the best ever to play the game .

Brazilian domestic football was easily the highest quality in the world at the time. If you want to ignore this look at his goalscoring record against Euoropes best - 7 in 3 games , intl record 77 in 92.

mind you i have just realised this is a world cup performances thread.

Correct JamDav
Careca was the star of the UEFA cup win

The Brazil league was of poor quality,because of the size of brazil, teams did'nt travel..you would have say the big teams from sao paulo and the rest would be the lesser teams of that state..ie take pro teams from London then add the non league teams till you get to 20,you get the picture...this is not any Brazillian players fault just the way it was

The Brazilian, Alemao, is the guy we'd forgotten?

When Napoli won their first league title they were probably the biggest spenders in Italy and this was before the great AC Milan side, Van Basten + Gullit arrived after that so they didnt overcome a great Milan side for the first title. Second time round 89/90 fair playe they did but they were not a **** team led by Maradona to glory, they had the second best squad in the league and were amongst the top spenders.

which Italian internationals were in their side?

Yes correct a world cup peformance thread,and on on what i see hear, Pele's international scoring record was top,and to win three world cups is mindblowing

De Napoli was in midfield
Carnevale up front with Careca, but was outshone

(a young chap called Zola had just joined too!)

Thanks Poppy, they weren't that great though were they?

Just don;t think any of the teams Maradona won trophies with would have won anything without him.

Italian Intl for Napoli at that time - Ferrara, Francini, Fusi, De Naploi, Camevale.
These players were all Italian Internationals and started along wih Maradona, Careca and Brazilian MF Alemao in the 1989 Uefa Cup Final.

Italy had an average international team in the mid 80s,take Maradona out of the Napoli side, and they would have won nothing

It doesnt matter that Italy had a poor international team because the majority of each team in Italy would have been Italian due to the 3 foreigner rule. Other teams would have been in exactly the same boat.

Napoli probably wouldnt have won without Maradona but they werent a poor squad, he was just their best player. There have been plenty of club sides that wouldnt have won without their best player. Infact, most shouldnt.

Brazil would have won the wc in 1970 w/o pele though yes?

i mean its a bigger certainty than napoli or argentina w/o maradona

Cant remember Pele,but how come his best clips dont end in a goal?..half way line shot,and the dummy on the goalie both missed,and the pass that set up alberto's goal was run of the mill for a top player...His 1300 goals came from playing against hopeless teams,games ending 14 nil

Pele won 3 World Cups & scored over 65 professional hat tricks.... He may have played for Santos for his whole career, but do you think the other Brazilian teams were mugs? Most players stayed in their own countries in those days, so he would have been playing against the best players in the world, week in week out... He was such an athlete he could even play in goal and was Santos's 2nd keeper. Scored a hat trick in a World Cup semi final at the age of 17 (1958) and added a couple more in the final...

Yeah, really over rated...

I never said he was overated, just asked the question about the two most seen clips of him,and pointed out a fact about the brazillian league in those days..The standard of the brazillian league was dreadfull,look at what santos won and you will see state championships next there list of titles,these were not national competition

The thing that makes Pele so great is that he did it over such a long period of time. He played for Santos for 18 years, scoring 1087 goals in 1120 appearances & scored 77 goals in 92 games for Brazil!!! (I suppose you think his national goals came against poor teams too?)

Maradona scored just 34 goals in 91 games for Argentina.... Less than half Pele's strikerate.

Peter Crouch must be odds on to score more international goals than Maradona...

Maradona, Pele, Cryuff, Zidane etc............, where all great players and legends at world cups. Everybody is going to have different opinions on who they think was the best of the bunch, for what its worth i think Maradona was the greatest player ever but thats just my opinion and others are obviously going to disagree. However the people crabbing the likes of the players named above are talking out of their backsides, why not just remember them for how good they where and stop trying to talk their achievements down

Before 70 Garrincha after 70 Maradona

Watch the footage of Pele on you tube.His goal scoring record was better than Maradona's.  The number of league goals scored by Pelé is listed as 589 in 605 games.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9


Maradona doesn't even come close to that.Maradona was may be better at running at defences, but Pele was a more complete player and a better striker.

I'd play both of them in behind Van Basten.

[:D]

Also Pele could use both feet. Maradona only one.

seen em all ....pele light years ahead of anyone....saw eusabio beat spurs double team ..on his own.....hardest kicker ive seen....

Its about opinions at the end of the day,and i cant remember pele,and i am not picking holes in his international scoring record;just made a point about the standard of the brazil league....Would Pele have scored a thousand club goals playing in Italy or spain,i dont think so

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sorry wrong thread .....

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