World Cup
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01 Jun 10
16:37
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Date Joined:
27 Oct 05
Tired "superstars", missing "superstars", players that just plain aren't good enough at international level.
There is no way this team are going to work together effectively. If we get to the final four, it'll be a miracle
There is no way this team are going to work together effectively. If we get to the final four, it'll be a miracle
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England will not win the world cup. Here are my reasons -
* They do not have a world class keeper
* Terry and Ferdinand have had average seasons to say the least(if either get injured which could easily happen you have King who I think is better than both but I do not think he can play so many games in a short period of time. Oh and they have Jamie Carragher & Upson, do I need to comment.
* Who will they start in the middle of the park? Gerrard & Lampard have never worked well together. You can put Gerrard on the left where he is wasted. You then have Barry who is hugely over rated, he has done nothing at City this season. Carrick has had a brutal season for Utd and has been very poor in the friendlies. There is also Milner who I think is a decent player but I would be surprised if he starts to be honest
* Up front they have Rooney who is world class but they do not have a top class striker to partner him. Also there is the chance he could get injured after a very busy and long season. The fact that Heskey is even in the squad really says it all.
All of the above is welcome to constructive criticism not just to be shot down.
* They do not have a world class keeper
* Terry and Ferdinand have had average seasons to say the least(if either get injured which could easily happen you have King who I think is better than both but I do not think he can play so many games in a short period of time. Oh and they have Jamie Carragher & Upson, do I need to comment.
* Who will they start in the middle of the park? Gerrard & Lampard have never worked well together. You can put Gerrard on the left where he is wasted. You then have Barry who is hugely over rated, he has done nothing at City this season. Carrick has had a brutal season for Utd and has been very poor in the friendlies. There is also Milner who I think is a decent player but I would be surprised if he starts to be honest
* Up front they have Rooney who is world class but they do not have a top class striker to partner him. Also there is the chance he could get injured after a very busy and long season. The fact that Heskey is even in the squad really says it all.
All of the above is welcome to constructive criticism not just to be shot down.
The team that wins it will be very good at conning the ref. Sad but true and borne out time and again in recent world cups, euro championships etc.
That's the main reason England are very unlikely to win the World Cup.
That's the main reason England are very unlikely to win the World Cup.
the main reason why england are unlikely to win the World Cup is not conning ref as you say. Simply fact that bad in possesion of football. Very limited style of play.
The only reason England won't win the World cup is because they are not good enough, we don't need to start giving them excuses already. I doubt if Heskey or Upson would make most of the squads in South Africa. Only a dream draw will enable them to advance far further than there abilities deserve. England are just about the poorest of the top seeded teams ( France & Germany run them close ). Capello has gone down the safety first route with his squad, who on earth in that lot, with the exception of Rooney is a match winner. No hopers !
123
Sticking my patriotic chest out as far as it will go I will give it a shot:
Any of the three keepers are decent enough and will do a job. There is no oustanding world class talent there but how many of the top teams have a truly great keeper?
Ferdinand has been troubled all season by his back. If that has come right him and Terry are a good combination when the chips are down.
Yes one of them may get injured and that leaves King to step in. The question would then be at what stage does he do so. He may only need to play three or four games for us to be in the final. Not a bad back up player though.
I agree that midfield is problematic mainly for the absence of a world class holding player. That won't change irrespective of what happens with Barry. Having said that both Gerrard and Lampard are top class operators on their day in their own field. Admittedly England will only do well if their top players step up but isn't that the case with most teams?
As for up front I think we saw the answer to that connundrum at the weekend. Cole as the link between midfield and Rooney will be the key for me. I think it is probably his best position and not only will it help unlock the best of Rooney but such a move will help relieve some of the pressure which is often exerted on our midfield at the top tournaments.
Those are your points addressed. Then if you look at why we have failed previously there are four main reasons I feel(I refuse to accept that our players are not good enough mainly but not exclusively due to our excellent club European record going back to the 70's).
1 The heat. At our best we tend to play a game unsuited to mid June temperatures. On that score this is probably our best chance for many years.
2 Exhaustion. The players who make it are usually knackered by the time they get there. Look at this year. Off the top of my head James, Ferdinand, Johnson, A Cole, Lennon, Barry, Gerrard, J Cole, Rooney, Heskey, SWP have all missed significant portions of the season and should be far fresher than would usually be the case with an England team.
3 Personnel. At each world cup in recent years there have been key players left behind or way off full fitness which has seriously impacted on our overall strength. When you look at the players who we have with realistic pretentions of being at or around world class it is striking that with the possible exception of Hargreaves they are all there and pretty well rested.
4 Luck. We have had some good luck at world cups but at crucial stages the rub of the green has tended to go against us. No team wins the world cup without the rub of the green. It is overdue to be our turn.
All in all there are reasons to be optimistic. The question is do the players really believe they are going to make it happen.
Sticking my patriotic chest out as far as it will go I will give it a shot:
Any of the three keepers are decent enough and will do a job. There is no oustanding world class talent there but how many of the top teams have a truly great keeper?
Ferdinand has been troubled all season by his back. If that has come right him and Terry are a good combination when the chips are down.
Yes one of them may get injured and that leaves King to step in. The question would then be at what stage does he do so. He may only need to play three or four games for us to be in the final. Not a bad back up player though.
I agree that midfield is problematic mainly for the absence of a world class holding player. That won't change irrespective of what happens with Barry. Having said that both Gerrard and Lampard are top class operators on their day in their own field. Admittedly England will only do well if their top players step up but isn't that the case with most teams?
As for up front I think we saw the answer to that connundrum at the weekend. Cole as the link between midfield and Rooney will be the key for me. I think it is probably his best position and not only will it help unlock the best of Rooney but such a move will help relieve some of the pressure which is often exerted on our midfield at the top tournaments.
Those are your points addressed. Then if you look at why we have failed previously there are four main reasons I feel(I refuse to accept that our players are not good enough mainly but not exclusively due to our excellent club European record going back to the 70's).
1 The heat. At our best we tend to play a game unsuited to mid June temperatures. On that score this is probably our best chance for many years.
2 Exhaustion. The players who make it are usually knackered by the time they get there. Look at this year. Off the top of my head James, Ferdinand, Johnson, A Cole, Lennon, Barry, Gerrard, J Cole, Rooney, Heskey, SWP have all missed significant portions of the season and should be far fresher than would usually be the case with an England team.
3 Personnel. At each world cup in recent years there have been key players left behind or way off full fitness which has seriously impacted on our overall strength. When you look at the players who we have with realistic pretentions of being at or around world class it is striking that with the possible exception of Hargreaves they are all there and pretty well rested.
4 Luck. We have had some good luck at world cups but at crucial stages the rub of the green has tended to go against us. No team wins the world cup without the rub of the green. It is overdue to be our turn.
All in all there are reasons to be optimistic. The question is do the players really believe they are going to make it happen.
Allweatherking a man of few words and no reasoning, a strong squad ! 3 ordinary keepers, 4 out of form central defenders ( King the exception ) 2 vastly overated midfielders Lampard & Gerrard. Only 1 striker of any class. Milner and Lennon have potential but how can this be a strong squad when many of them are not even first choice players at their clubs.
wrong cufmos.
5 genuine world class players in that squad. That's as many as the best squads and more than the majority.
5 genuine world class players in that squad. That's as many as the best squads and more than the majority.
cufmos
It may seem a daft question but how many world class players did Clough have at his disposal when he took Forest to two European Cups and how many world class players did Greece have when they won the European Championship? Germany nearly went all the way a couple of tourneys ago with a pretty average group of players. Over the last 40 years or so Holland have produced more world class players than nearly everybody else apart from Brazil.
We can obsess a little too much about quality sometimes. The team ethic and desire at this level are also incredibly important. We have more than enough good players to do well. Have we a good enough team?
It may seem a daft question but how many world class players did Clough have at his disposal when he took Forest to two European Cups and how many world class players did Greece have when they won the European Championship? Germany nearly went all the way a couple of tourneys ago with a pretty average group of players. Over the last 40 years or so Holland have produced more world class players than nearly everybody else apart from Brazil.
We can obsess a little too much about quality sometimes. The team ethic and desire at this level are also incredibly important. We have more than enough good players to do well. Have we a good enough team?
Firstly, I agree we won't win the world cup. Having said that, I think Capello has picked a pretty decent squad out of the players available to him. We have options,and a mixture of experience and youthful talent.
The keepers are as good as we have. The only candidate to miss out was Paul Robinson, but on balance that was probably right.
I really like the inclusion of Carragher. He is a reasonable sub right back, and "if" Ferdinand and King suffer injuries I'd be more than happy for him to play centre back. Although he's ageing he has experience which is crucial. You have to take your best players if possible so the risk on Ferdinand and King is justified as long as there is back up which there is. Warnock is decent cover for Cole and a better defender than Baines which is important in the latter stages which is when he is most likely to be required due to injuries and/or suspensions.
Despite the above, the defence looks shaky on recent evidence and very vulnerable to balls through the centre backs. Hopefully this will improve as the tournament progresses!!!
Where we really suffer is in midfield against sides that keep the ball (Brazil/Spain/Portugal/Holland). Joe Cole and Gareth Barry are the only english midfielders with an ability to keep the ball and this is why we won't win the world cup. This isn't Capello's fault, as he hasn't the resources available to pick a Xavi, Fabregas or Iniesta. We'll be fine against other sides that don't keep the ball well like Germany and Italy, but we won't see enough of the ball against the other top sides. Lampard and Gerrard are top players but give the ball away too frequently. I'm surprised Walcott didn't get in, but it seems Capello is going to give himself the right winger option with a narrow left sided player (hence no Walcott or Johnson)
Up front, I have sympathy for Bent who has had an outstanding season, but whilst I really don't like Heskey his inclusion was a must. He has proven he can play with Rooney and gives us another dimension. Rooney and Crouch were also certainties and for me the decision should have been Defoe or Bent as they offer similar qualities. Defoe has the international pedigree whereas Bent has yet to do it.
Assuming Barry doesn't make it for the first game I'd go for
James
Johnson Terry Ferdinand Cole
Carrick
Milner Lampard Gerrard J.Cole
Rooney
This side has a more solid look to it, and whilst I'm no fan of Carrick I do think we need someone in front of the back four. Barry would come in for Carrick once fit (unless Carrick stars obviously). Milner just gets the nod to start but I could have gone for Lennon or WP instead. The midfield is solid, works hard and has a reasonable chance of being able to retain the ball, but does lack pace.
There are numerous options to play from the bench if we needed to open the game up and go for it, such as Lennon or W-Phillips to add width when tiredness sets in, Crouch or Defoe to bag a goal or dare I say it, Heskey if we needed be more direct toward the end of a game.
The keepers are as good as we have. The only candidate to miss out was Paul Robinson, but on balance that was probably right.
I really like the inclusion of Carragher. He is a reasonable sub right back, and "if" Ferdinand and King suffer injuries I'd be more than happy for him to play centre back. Although he's ageing he has experience which is crucial. You have to take your best players if possible so the risk on Ferdinand and King is justified as long as there is back up which there is. Warnock is decent cover for Cole and a better defender than Baines which is important in the latter stages which is when he is most likely to be required due to injuries and/or suspensions.
Despite the above, the defence looks shaky on recent evidence and very vulnerable to balls through the centre backs. Hopefully this will improve as the tournament progresses!!!
Where we really suffer is in midfield against sides that keep the ball (Brazil/Spain/Portugal/Holland). Joe Cole and Gareth Barry are the only english midfielders with an ability to keep the ball and this is why we won't win the world cup. This isn't Capello's fault, as he hasn't the resources available to pick a Xavi, Fabregas or Iniesta. We'll be fine against other sides that don't keep the ball well like Germany and Italy, but we won't see enough of the ball against the other top sides. Lampard and Gerrard are top players but give the ball away too frequently. I'm surprised Walcott didn't get in, but it seems Capello is going to give himself the right winger option with a narrow left sided player (hence no Walcott or Johnson)
Up front, I have sympathy for Bent who has had an outstanding season, but whilst I really don't like Heskey his inclusion was a must. He has proven he can play with Rooney and gives us another dimension. Rooney and Crouch were also certainties and for me the decision should have been Defoe or Bent as they offer similar qualities. Defoe has the international pedigree whereas Bent has yet to do it.
Assuming Barry doesn't make it for the first game I'd go for
James
Johnson Terry Ferdinand Cole
Carrick
Milner Lampard Gerrard J.Cole
Rooney
This side has a more solid look to it, and whilst I'm no fan of Carrick I do think we need someone in front of the back four. Barry would come in for Carrick once fit (unless Carrick stars obviously). Milner just gets the nod to start but I could have gone for Lennon or WP instead. The midfield is solid, works hard and has a reasonable chance of being able to retain the ball, but does lack pace.
There are numerous options to play from the bench if we needed to open the game up and go for it, such as Lennon or W-Phillips to add width when tiredness sets in, Crouch or Defoe to bag a goal or dare I say it, Heskey if we needed be more direct toward the end of a game.
Allweatherking you listen to too much propaganda we have 1 worldclass player ! Larry's Codpiece I agree but We are not a team and when we play the better sides we will be exposed at the back and in the midfield. You don't win a world cup relying on one player.
your starting 11 and reasoning is spot on villaboy.
strong squad cufmos. 5 genuine world class players.
how far England go will depend on the 11 that Capello selects.
how far England go will depend on the 11 that Capello selects.
If Johnson and Carrick play we have no chance.Johnson cant defend which is a pretty big disadvantage for a defender,and Carrick has been hopelessly out of form for some time and was very poor against Mexico.Carragher,although not quick, at least he knows how to defend,and for me has to play RB,and if we are to have a holding midfielder and Barry aint fit, i would play King or maybe Gerrard if he can be disciplined enough,but certainly not Carrick!!
agree , some very average players in that squad
defence is very weak
midfield is ok ..if all fit
heskey is rubbish
defence is very weak
midfield is ok ..if all fit
heskey is rubbish
cufmos
I think that would very much depend on your definition of world class. An extremely limited view would suggest that we only have Rooney who on his day is at that level. That takes the perspective that there are less than seven or eight truly world class players currently plying their trade.
If you take a more liberal view as I think allweather does there is a case of sorts for saying that at their best the likes of Ferdinand, Cole and Gerrard could be classed as being around that level.
I'm not sure who would be the fifth, although if it is Terry I would have to demur.
I think that would very much depend on your definition of world class. An extremely limited view would suggest that we only have Rooney who on his day is at that level. That takes the perspective that there are less than seven or eight truly world class players currently plying their trade.
If you take a more liberal view as I think allweather does there is a case of sorts for saying that at their best the likes of Ferdinand, Cole and Gerrard could be classed as being around that level.
I'm not sure who would be the fifth, although if it is Terry I would have to demur.
ok then only player at world class level at minute is a cole and rooney
With four squads not yet in: Australia; Chile; Italy; Portugal.
Oldest squad: Brazil 29.1 (29.0 outfield)
Second oldest: England 29.1 (28.8)
Third oldest: Paraguay 28.7 (28.2)
Fourth oldest: France 28.0 (28.4)
Youngest: Ghana 24.7 (24.7)
Second: Germany 25.3 (24.7)
Third: North Korea 25.4 (25.3)
Fourth: Cameroon 25,6 (25.0)
Just my own figures calculated from DOBs on Wiki.
Oldest squad: Brazil 29.1 (29.0 outfield)
Second oldest: England 29.1 (28.8)
Third oldest: Paraguay 28.7 (28.2)
Fourth oldest: France 28.0 (28.4)
Youngest: Ghana 24.7 (24.7)
Second: Germany 25.3 (24.7)
Third: North Korea 25.4 (25.3)
Fourth: Cameroon 25,6 (25.0)
Just my own figures calculated from DOBs on Wiki.
Englands problem is they cant hold onto the ball for any period of time. They never seem to be able to control possession. Spain passed them off the pitch a couple of years ago. For all the hype of gerrard/lampard they never seem to be able to hold on to the ball like say xavi/ineista. Thats always been englands problem. They just dont seem to realise you need to keep the ball. Good manager this time but just cant see them going past the 1/4 unless they get lucky.
the more i look at the squad an think about it the more annoyed i get thinking back to 2002 an 2006 when we really did have a good team an very strong squads.just dont look to have enough quality to me to do any better than the last 8
dont let morrissey see this thread or u will all be shot
the reason we wont win the world cup is simple, apart from 1 or 2 exceptions the england team are a bunch of pampered spoilt fckin bunch of thick scumbag cnuts!!
cheers
im english by the way
cheers
im english by the way
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