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I've been spread betting since 1987 and so perhaps I should have realised this a long time ago but just learned a lesson tonight that others might benefit from.
I wanted to spread bet a share on a buy today but I only wanted to do it right at market close. Hence, I bought for £40 a point at 16.29 and 15 seconds. Market closed at 16:30 and the 'final' price from my spread betting outfit saw me down by £55 at 16:32.
At 16:40, I went to close my screen and saw I was actually down by £160. OK, annoying but no disaster. But the latest update on the spread company's price was timed at 16:35 and 28 seconds.
Hence, I called them because I could not understand why a price could update 5 minutes after the market closed.
After a long discussion with a young man who, at one point, told me that the closing price on the London market 'bears no relation to where it opens the next day' (jesus!) I discovered that they - and all the other spread companies I strongly suspect - take their final feed from the London Stock Exchange after the close of day auction has taken place.
Trouble is how that final feed is after their spread market has closed.
Now, I can understand this - and it could equally work in a punters favour as work against them - but absolutely nowhere on their site does it say that a price can be changed after their market has closed, subject to the LSE auction.
What the young man said was that 'our customers are expected to know that we only mirror prices from the LSE'. I knew that but just didn't realise the auction is also included because of how the LSE send an update following that auction but after the spread betting market has closed.
Perhaps I was being plain stupid when I should have known better but in all my spread betting history I have only twice traded in the last minute of the market (today and last week and been caught out both times!).
They also told me that I could have called during the duration of the auction and tired to have them match me then - IE after their market has closed - but there would be no guarantees with being matched.
I accept all this and the young man apologised for saying that the closing price bears no relation to the next day's opening price but I thought I would post this for two reasons:
1/ To warn anyone like me who didn't know - and, yes, perhaps I was being thick!
2/ To see how many on here did realise the above situation exists?
I wanted to spread bet a share on a buy today but I only wanted to do it right at market close. Hence, I bought for £40 a point at 16.29 and 15 seconds. Market closed at 16:30 and the 'final' price from my spread betting outfit saw me down by £55 at 16:32.
At 16:40, I went to close my screen and saw I was actually down by £160. OK, annoying but no disaster. But the latest update on the spread company's price was timed at 16:35 and 28 seconds.
Hence, I called them because I could not understand why a price could update 5 minutes after the market closed.
After a long discussion with a young man who, at one point, told me that the closing price on the London market 'bears no relation to where it opens the next day' (jesus!) I discovered that they - and all the other spread companies I strongly suspect - take their final feed from the London Stock Exchange after the close of day auction has taken place.
Trouble is how that final feed is after their spread market has closed.
Now, I can understand this - and it could equally work in a punters favour as work against them - but absolutely nowhere on their site does it say that a price can be changed after their market has closed, subject to the LSE auction.
What the young man said was that 'our customers are expected to know that we only mirror prices from the LSE'. I knew that but just didn't realise the auction is also included because of how the LSE send an update following that auction but after the spread betting market has closed.
Perhaps I was being plain stupid when I should have known better but in all my spread betting history I have only twice traded in the last minute of the market (today and last week and been caught out both times!).
They also told me that I could have called during the duration of the auction and tired to have them match me then - IE after their market has closed - but there would be no guarantees with being matched.
I accept all this and the young man apologised for saying that the closing price bears no relation to the next day's opening price but I thought I would post this for two reasons:
1/ To warn anyone like me who didn't know - and, yes, perhaps I was being thick!
2/ To see how many on here did realise the above situation exists?
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£40 pounds per point is a very lumpy bet given your apparent inexperience. Just as the stock market does not open at the price it closed at the previous day, it should be obvious that the stocks and hence the spread will behave in the same way. Remember that there is a bid offer spread, so the instant you place a trade, any bet would show a loss as it would cost you the spread multiplied by your stake to close it with no price movement.
Thanks for that Stow...but I have been spread betting and share buying for 29 years now! You have drawn a very wrong conclusion from my post, I'm afraid.
I suspect, as is the major fault with internet posting, that you did not read my post properly.
I hold a portfolio of 3/4 million pounds of shares, so I know exactly what I am doing. I also retired at 52 and spend my days going horse racing, so I am a highly experienced punter.
Furthemore, I wrote a book on Sports Spread Betting which was published in 1998 by Raceform. A quick search of the internet using surname Knight will lead you to the now out of print book.
BUT, despite all of that it simply never occurred to me how the LSE end of day auction filtered through to the spreads. It was a really stupid mistake but you are never too old to learn.
I thought the opening prices in the morning took into account the auction the night before, plus any adjustment which the market makers put in for overnight buy and sell orders, plus general work markets movements / events. In other words, I thought the closing price with the spread company stayed like that until adjusted before the markets opened next day.
Of course, whenever all these adjustments takes place makes no difference to punters because the price is whatever it is at opening.
I was simply surprised to see the price change after the market had closed for trading and wanted to point this out to anyone who may one day experience the same thing as I did that day.
As for £40 being a lumpy bet: Well, not to me given my resources but also because I had a guaranteed stop loss, alongside a limit order, on the bet restricting me to £800 loss / profit.
So, although my post reads like I am a beginner, I can assure you I am not. It was a stupid oversight by me and I was big enough to post abut it.
Hence, I find your post pretty patronising. I am sure you didn't mean it to be but people really need to give more thought when dishing out comment and advice via websites! It demonstrates very well why I rarely bother to post stuff anywhere.
I suspect, as is the major fault with internet posting, that you did not read my post properly.
I hold a portfolio of 3/4 million pounds of shares, so I know exactly what I am doing. I also retired at 52 and spend my days going horse racing, so I am a highly experienced punter.
Furthemore, I wrote a book on Sports Spread Betting which was published in 1998 by Raceform. A quick search of the internet using surname Knight will lead you to the now out of print book.
BUT, despite all of that it simply never occurred to me how the LSE end of day auction filtered through to the spreads. It was a really stupid mistake but you are never too old to learn.
I thought the opening prices in the morning took into account the auction the night before, plus any adjustment which the market makers put in for overnight buy and sell orders, plus general work markets movements / events. In other words, I thought the closing price with the spread company stayed like that until adjusted before the markets opened next day.
Of course, whenever all these adjustments takes place makes no difference to punters because the price is whatever it is at opening.
I was simply surprised to see the price change after the market had closed for trading and wanted to point this out to anyone who may one day experience the same thing as I did that day.
As for £40 being a lumpy bet: Well, not to me given my resources but also because I had a guaranteed stop loss, alongside a limit order, on the bet restricting me to £800 loss / profit.
So, although my post reads like I am a beginner, I can assure you I am not. It was a stupid oversight by me and I was big enough to post abut it.
Hence, I find your post pretty patronising. I am sure you didn't mean it to be but people really need to give more thought when dishing out comment and advice via websites! It demonstrates very well why I rarely bother to post stuff anywhere.
Sorry about that. You are quite correct that I appear not to have read your post properly. No offence intended. Best of luck.
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