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Bill Gross, who runs the world’s biggest bond fund at Pacific Investment Management Co., said economies and their financial markets take decades to return to normal after the havoc caused by too much debt.
An authentic debt crisis, which the world is experiencing, can only be ultimately cured by default or printing more money in order to inflate it away, Gross said in his monthly investment outlook posted on the Newport Beach, California-based company’s website today
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-28/gross-says-decades-needed-to-normalize-from-too-much-debt.html
An authentic debt crisis, which the world is experiencing, can only be ultimately cured by default or printing more money in order to inflate it away, Gross said in his monthly investment outlook posted on the Newport Beach, California-based company’s website today
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-28/gross-says-decades-needed-to-normalize-from-too-much-debt.html
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melly "does'nt want waste his time" yet can't stop posting.
clown
clown
http://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=f&oq=bill+gross+pimco&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ACAW_en___AU386&q=bill+gross+pimco&gs_upl=0l0l0l3990lllllllllll0&aqi=g5#q=bill+gross+pimco&hl=en&rlz=1T4ACAW_en___AU386&prmd=imvnslo&source=univ&tbm=vid&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=HlPsT-X9Aofeigf3jPjbBQ&ved=0CIQBEKsE&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=e4c9a6abbf65430d&biw=1536&bih=743
link to dozens and dozens of bill gross appearing on cnbc.
more proof that melly lives alone in "melly world "
a demented moron.
link to dozens and dozens of bill gross appearing on cnbc.
more proof that melly lives alone in "melly world "
a demented moron.
I think we are witnessing another epic epileptic fit from our resident clown.
thats it melly - avoid the issue.
your failure to address the issue at hand is an admission you are cornered and beaten- again
suggest you re-google to find other authors supporting your absurd view of the world.
this one has been an epic FAIL.
new thread needed.
take your time
your failure to address the issue at hand is an admission you are cornered and beaten- again
suggest you re-google to find other authors supporting your absurd view of the world.
this one has been an epic FAIL.
new thread needed.
take your time
You owe me a keyboard !!!! I just spilled my coffee through my nose.
Whilst I don't pretend to understand economic theory fully, I believe the likes of Bill Gross refer to the Fed reflating the economy and the GDP, but not creating hyperinflation, which Menelaus always refers to.
An authentic debt crisis, which the world is experiencing, can only be ultimately cured by default or printing more money in order to inflate it away, Gross said in his monthly investment outlook posted on the Newport Beach, California-based company’s website today
One minor quibble is the word 'world'. This is overwhelmingly a US and EEA debt crisis. The rest of the world has to watch and react accordingly to how the the US/EEA deal with it, but there isn't a world debt crisis.
But good article nonetheless. The analysis is simplistic, but that doesn't make it incorrect. The US govt is living massively beyond its means, and like the UK, isn't making any serious effort to balance a budget now or in the next generation. Liabilities and commitments are not being renegotiated, their population ages, their health and benefits bill rises. Debt interest is enormous. Their foreign policy is the most costly in the world. Why people are prepared to lend to them is a mystery. In the summer of 2013 if not sooner, the President will ask Congress again for permission to raise the debt ceiling. And the printing presses will continue to run.
Inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think there's been academic studies which show there's no negative correlation between a nation's inflation levels and economic growth, but examples of hyperinflation are rare and they have to hope that doesn't happen.
One minor quibble is the word 'world'. This is overwhelmingly a US and EEA debt crisis. The rest of the world has to watch and react accordingly to how the the US/EEA deal with it, but there isn't a world debt crisis.
But good article nonetheless. The analysis is simplistic, but that doesn't make it incorrect. The US govt is living massively beyond its means, and like the UK, isn't making any serious effort to balance a budget now or in the next generation. Liabilities and commitments are not being renegotiated, their population ages, their health and benefits bill rises. Debt interest is enormous. Their foreign policy is the most costly in the world. Why people are prepared to lend to them is a mystery. In the summer of 2013 if not sooner, the President will ask Congress again for permission to raise the debt ceiling. And the printing presses will continue to run.
Inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think there's been academic studies which show there's no negative correlation between a nation's inflation levels and economic growth, but examples of hyperinflation are rare and they have to hope that doesn't happen.
Nice post bongo.
Not exactly what Menelaus keeps saying all the time though is it ?.
Not exactly what Menelaus keeps saying all the time though is it ?.
Sorry bongo, but you're offside on this one.
You interpretation of only the debtors having a problem in a "debt crisis" is very narrow. Gross is absolutely correct. The world, both creditor and debtor nations have a huge issue in a debt crisis, not just the US and EEA who are "living massively beyond their means" and they are "the only ones having a debt crisis". Those who have lent them the money (China, Japan, etc.) and enabled them to live beyond their means (so that they could buy their exports) will also feel the pain, in some ways actually a lot worse than the debtors. When the debtors either default, devalue or impose austerity as part of the deleveraging process, the creditors will be hugely impacted, there's no escape from that. And all that without even mentioning the global interconnectedness of the banking system.
The analysis is indeed simplistic but that's because today's monetary system model is simplistic. The system relies an infinite and expanding growth to pay the coupon or it collapses. It's that simple. That's why when we stop borrowing or default on our loans (bank balance sheet deflation) , the government steps in and borrows on our behalf, whether we like it or not, so that the ponzi can continue. When banks are insolvent, the central banks step in and the accounting rules get changed so the ponzi can continue for a little longer hoping for a miracle to come along. When sovereigns are bankrupt, money is created out of thin air to prolong the ponzi again and so that………zombie banks can live another day. The ECB would violate its mandate if it prints directly like the FED and the BoE so they go through gyrations to get around the legal obstacles but it's still printing none the less. This is the stage we're at now.
Inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing if its organic. More real growth, more money created, more velocity, etc. But not when it's the result of the central bank increasing the money supply for the sole purpose of propping dead banks. Deflation is not necessarily a bad thing either but that's another discussion all together.
Everyone on here keeps looking for the solution. I mean if it's a problem, there's must be a solution. We are wired that way. What everyone fails to see is that this is a predicament without a solution. The system was designed to some day fail from the outset. All ponzis eventually fail.
What Gross didn't mention is that both options of defaulting on bad paper and clearing the system or more money printing to cover the gapping hole, end up at the same place. Collapse of a monetary system that has now crossed well into Twilight Zone territory. But the central banks will choose money printing, they always have, they always will. There has NEVER been a single example of a financial or currency collapse because of deflation whereas the road to hyperinflation is littered with hundreds of such examples. This time won't be any different……..and all the "hope" in the universe won't change that.
P.S. In the US, at current spending levels, the debt ceiling will be hit this fall just before the election, not in the summer of 2013.
You interpretation of only the debtors having a problem in a "debt crisis" is very narrow. Gross is absolutely correct. The world, both creditor and debtor nations have a huge issue in a debt crisis, not just the US and EEA who are "living massively beyond their means" and they are "the only ones having a debt crisis". Those who have lent them the money (China, Japan, etc.) and enabled them to live beyond their means (so that they could buy their exports) will also feel the pain, in some ways actually a lot worse than the debtors. When the debtors either default, devalue or impose austerity as part of the deleveraging process, the creditors will be hugely impacted, there's no escape from that. And all that without even mentioning the global interconnectedness of the banking system.
The analysis is indeed simplistic but that's because today's monetary system model is simplistic. The system relies an infinite and expanding growth to pay the coupon or it collapses. It's that simple. That's why when we stop borrowing or default on our loans (bank balance sheet deflation) , the government steps in and borrows on our behalf, whether we like it or not, so that the ponzi can continue. When banks are insolvent, the central banks step in and the accounting rules get changed so the ponzi can continue for a little longer hoping for a miracle to come along. When sovereigns are bankrupt, money is created out of thin air to prolong the ponzi again and so that………zombie banks can live another day. The ECB would violate its mandate if it prints directly like the FED and the BoE so they go through gyrations to get around the legal obstacles but it's still printing none the less. This is the stage we're at now.
Inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing if its organic. More real growth, more money created, more velocity, etc. But not when it's the result of the central bank increasing the money supply for the sole purpose of propping dead banks. Deflation is not necessarily a bad thing either but that's another discussion all together.
Everyone on here keeps looking for the solution. I mean if it's a problem, there's must be a solution. We are wired that way. What everyone fails to see is that this is a predicament without a solution. The system was designed to some day fail from the outset. All ponzis eventually fail.
What Gross didn't mention is that both options of defaulting on bad paper and clearing the system or more money printing to cover the gapping hole, end up at the same place. Collapse of a monetary system that has now crossed well into Twilight Zone territory. But the central banks will choose money printing, they always have, they always will. There has NEVER been a single example of a financial or currency collapse because of deflation whereas the road to hyperinflation is littered with hundreds of such examples. This time won't be any different……..and all the "hope" in the universe won't change that.
P.S. In the US, at current spending levels, the debt ceiling will be hit this fall just before the election, not in the summer of 2013.
The system relies an infinite and expanding growth to pay the coupon or it collapses.
since it has never had that why is it still with us?
since it has never had that why is it still with us?
Menelaus,
whether you're right or whether you're wrong, that is, sir, one helluva fine post, imo!
Thank you.
Maybe it rings a bell in my aged head or something.
I remember more than forty five years ago, when I was keen to change the world and rid it of its ills, I was involved with a kinda revolutionary Irish workers thing.
And, d'you know what?
We used to say, as a key plank in our anti-capitalist statement,
that the rulers were printing money and causing problems!
Even though I was a hot-headed and passionate believer back then, little did i think that I'd ever see the day
when a similar theory was put forward on a place like this.
Btw, I honestly think that this bit of your approach is right on. What I don't know, however, is where exactly do we go from here?
I can clearly see that the present set up is flawed and unsustainable. Most folk can, if they're honest.
My main worry about the future is that people in general ( including myself) seem just as fkn stupid as we were in my day - and that's despite all the technological advance and spread of so-called education.
I can't see us grasping the nettle and doing something constructive to build a better framework for human activity.
Maybe I'm just a tired and jaded, negative old bstrd, but now that capitalism in the West looks to be tottering to its death, I somehow ain't filled with gladness and joy.
Perhaps things long dreamed about are never quite as good when they seem to be coming true.
There you go, yet another post to add to the pile.
whether you're right or whether you're wrong, that is, sir, one helluva fine post, imo!
Thank you.
Maybe it rings a bell in my aged head or something.
I remember more than forty five years ago, when I was keen to change the world and rid it of its ills, I was involved with a kinda revolutionary Irish workers thing.
And, d'you know what?
We used to say, as a key plank in our anti-capitalist statement,
that the rulers were printing money and causing problems!
Even though I was a hot-headed and passionate believer back then, little did i think that I'd ever see the day
when a similar theory was put forward on a place like this.
Btw, I honestly think that this bit of your approach is right on. What I don't know, however, is where exactly do we go from here?
I can clearly see that the present set up is flawed and unsustainable. Most folk can, if they're honest.
My main worry about the future is that people in general ( including myself) seem just as fkn stupid as we were in my day - and that's despite all the technological advance and spread of so-called education.
I can't see us grasping the nettle and doing something constructive to build a better framework for human activity.
Maybe I'm just a tired and jaded, negative old bstrd, but now that capitalism in the West looks to be tottering to its death, I somehow ain't filled with gladness and joy.
Perhaps things long dreamed about are never quite as good when they seem to be coming true.
There you go, yet another post to add to the pile.
" This is a predicament without a solution" .
That is the essence of everything that Menelaus is posting day in day out.
And that's my problem in believing him.
If that is so clear cut and indisputable, then why are there serious economists out there ( a majority in fact ?) who are debating otherwise ?
Are they all simply just misinformed, or are they all part of a political conspiracy to keep the truth from the masses?.
I am never one to believe in these conspiracy type theories, as it seems too far fetched to be able to control the truth on such a fundamental issue which, if true, will affect the lives of everybody in the world in an extremely distressing manner, to say the very least.
That is the essence of everything that Menelaus is posting day in day out.
And that's my problem in believing him.
If that is so clear cut and indisputable, then why are there serious economists out there ( a majority in fact ?) who are debating otherwise ?
Are they all simply just misinformed, or are they all part of a political conspiracy to keep the truth from the masses?.
I am never one to believe in these conspiracy type theories, as it seems too far fetched to be able to control the truth on such a fundamental issue which, if true, will affect the lives of everybody in the world in an extremely distressing manner, to say the very least.
Cue in the climate change conspiracists now I suppose.
Also he posts " ---What Gross doesn't mention ----- collapse of a monetary system --- "
Maybe, just maybe, it's because Gross does not think this is CERTAIN.
But if he does think that ( and I don't really know if he does or doesn't), then he becomes an idiot in Menelaus' eyes presumably ?
Btw he would then join some good company.
Menelaus is already on record on here in posting that in his opinion Warren Buffet is going to go down as the most disgraced investor of all times.
Maybe, just maybe, it's because Gross does not think this is CERTAIN.
But if he does think that ( and I don't really know if he does or doesn't), then he becomes an idiot in Menelaus' eyes presumably ?
Btw he would then join some good company.
Menelaus is already on record on here in posting that in his opinion Warren Buffet is going to go down as the most disgraced investor of all times.
FineAs
Turn it on its head. Instead of contemplating which economists disagree with The Great Oz perhaps it would be easier to compile a list of those who agree with him.
I'll start us off:
Nope. None found yet.
Turn it on its head. Instead of contemplating which economists disagree with The Great Oz perhaps it would be easier to compile a list of those who agree with him.
I'll start us off:
Nope. None found yet.
. . . at current spending levels, the debt ceiling will be hit this fall just before the election
I agree with sean - fine post menelaus - am almost out of breath after reading it. Will have to read up a little on hyper-inflation - are there any good books out there? It seems more likely than default imv, but has chilling consequences presumably as people won't trade in the currency the govt is printing if they can find another unit of exchange. The govt on the other hand would insist, at the point of a gun presumably, that they can purchase the services of their employees and contractors with the rapidly devaluing coin they are minting. It would lead to tyranny.
Oh for the days of balanced budgets, I miss them so.
I agree with sean - fine post menelaus - am almost out of breath after reading it. Will have to read up a little on hyper-inflation - are there any good books out there? It seems more likely than default imv, but has chilling consequences presumably as people won't trade in the currency the govt is printing if they can find another unit of exchange. The govt on the other hand would insist, at the point of a gun presumably, that they can purchase the services of their employees and contractors with the rapidly devaluing coin they are minting. It would lead to tyranny.
Oh for the days of balanced budgets, I miss them so.
Come on bongo.
An intelligent guy like you falling unconditionally for this overhyped rant from Menelaus ?
You really have that little faith in all the counter moderate opinions out there being expressed daily by experienced, respected
economists ?
Have they all been bought off in some form or manner ?
Are they all expressing opinions with no theoretical validity ? Are they ALL fools to hold such opinions ?
An intelligent guy like you falling unconditionally for this overhyped rant from Menelaus ?
You really have that little faith in all the counter moderate opinions out there being expressed daily by experienced, respected
economists ?
Have they all been bought off in some form or manner ?
Are they all expressing opinions with no theoretical validity ? Are they ALL fools to hold such opinions ?
FineAs/Bongo
To be fair to menelaus I don't think it is an overhyped rant. It is very likely what is going to happen in my view. Not certain but very likely. By the way, I'll save you the trouble of looking for economists who agree with Melly because I know who they are and so does he and they are pretty much all AUSTRIAN SCHOOL ECONOMISTS. Just remember the quote I gave you from Mises and it all falls into place.
Which is why I keep asking him why he doesn't just come out of the closet and why he keeps refusing to answer. He isn't clever. He can just regurgitate what someone else has prophesied.
To be fair to menelaus I don't think it is an overhyped rant. It is very likely what is going to happen in my view. Not certain but very likely. By the way, I'll save you the trouble of looking for economists who agree with Melly because I know who they are and so does he and they are pretty much all AUSTRIAN SCHOOL ECONOMISTS. Just remember the quote I gave you from Mises and it all falls into place.
Which is why I keep asking him why he doesn't just come out of the closet and why he keeps refusing to answer. He isn't clever. He can just regurgitate what someone else has prophesied.
If it's ok with you EO, I think I'll still go with the moderate camp out there.
There's a problem, we've identified it, we're trying to fix it without bringing the whole financial system crashing down.
Most importantly don't panic, don't overreact.
Not quite trust me I'm a doctor stuff, but along those lines. Perhaps I'm naive and innocent and stupid as Menelaus implies, but it has got me through life so far with a considerable nest egg tucked under my belt ( basically I lucked out tbh). I hope it all doesn't disappear in hyperinflationary smoke. It would be most annoying to have to start all over again at the bottom of the woodpile. I'm afraid to say that I have not kept my skills up to date, not my working ones that is.
The only thing that I know from all this is that we will not have learnt any lessons, and it will all happen again some time down the road. Quite depressing really.
There's a problem, we've identified it, we're trying to fix it without bringing the whole financial system crashing down.
Most importantly don't panic, don't overreact.
Not quite trust me I'm a doctor stuff, but along those lines. Perhaps I'm naive and innocent and stupid as Menelaus implies, but it has got me through life so far with a considerable nest egg tucked under my belt ( basically I lucked out tbh). I hope it all doesn't disappear in hyperinflationary smoke. It would be most annoying to have to start all over again at the bottom of the woodpile. I'm afraid to say that I have not kept my skills up to date, not my working ones that is.
The only thing that I know from all this is that we will not have learnt any lessons, and it will all happen again some time down the road. Quite depressing really.
Hello Fine As,
I wasn't agreeing unconditionally with Menelaus ( although i suppose it came across that way ), just that it was a fine post with a lot of food for thought. I'd still claim it's a US/EEA debt crisis. I'd rather not be the one defaulting on the debt - the country on the other side that is owed the money will likely have a balanced portfolio of overseas real estate , metals , shares in foreign corporations , African farm land etc. They won't like it of course. The country defaulting will be close to exhausting all their avenues to either increase revenues or reduce expenditure, will have run out of people willing to lend even at higher rates, possibly up against a hostile public. Big governments are sooo slow with many interests riding the gravy train, capable only of reacting but not anticipating crises and heading them off.
I wasn't agreeing unconditionally with Menelaus ( although i suppose it came across that way ), just that it was a fine post with a lot of food for thought. I'd still claim it's a US/EEA debt crisis. I'd rather not be the one defaulting on the debt - the country on the other side that is owed the money will likely have a balanced portfolio of overseas real estate , metals , shares in foreign corporations , African farm land etc. They won't like it of course. The country defaulting will be close to exhausting all their avenues to either increase revenues or reduce expenditure, will have run out of people willing to lend even at higher rates, possibly up against a hostile public. Big governments are sooo slow with many interests riding the gravy train, capable only of reacting but not anticipating crises and heading them off.
Yup, that pretty much sums it up I would say.
Just cut & paste the most used, abused and misunderstood Mises quote, who by the way has been DEAD for 39 whole years and the word DERIVATIVE wasn't part of the lexicon during his lifetime, and voila just like magic........you can claim you understand the Austrian school of economics.
It's hilarious, if it wasn't so sad.
All fluff and no substance - Menelaus, Now
Just cut & paste the most used, abused and misunderstood Mises quote, who by the way has been DEAD for 39 whole years and the word DERIVATIVE wasn't part of the lexicon during his lifetime, and voila just like magic........you can claim you understand the Austrian school of economics.
It's hilarious, if it wasn't so sad.
All fluff and no substance - Menelaus, Now
I thought Bongo's initial post was very good too!
None the wiser yet as to what action to take.
I practice basic survival now, anyway, so, barring violent raging rioters or ( just as likely) holocaust dictators finally putting the lead between my eyeballs,
not much will change for me!
None the wiser yet as to what action to take.
I practice basic survival now, anyway, so, barring violent raging rioters or ( just as likely) holocaust dictators finally putting the lead between my eyeballs,
not much will change for me!
Menelaus
Clearly you consider yourself something of an expert (on everything). Allowing for its broad church approach it should be no trouble for you to point out how your views disagree with those of Austrian School economists like Mises.
Come on big boy:
A man who knows a thing or two or an empty vessel.
Take your time.
Clearly you consider yourself something of an expert (on everything). Allowing for its broad church approach it should be no trouble for you to point out how your views disagree with those of Austrian School economists like Mises.
Come on big boy:
A man who knows a thing or two or an empty vessel.
Take your time.
No mate, I don't consider myself an expert on *EVERYTHING*, just on economics. I have a degree in economics and have worked in the field for 20 years, I think that qualifies me just a tad better to comment on today's events than the average clueless mug on here whose understanding of today's events comes from watching CNBC. Posting that I claim that I'm an expert on *everything* is setting up yet another strawman..….which is something you seem to be quite adept at.
Do yourself a favour and sign up for one of my public presentations at the LSE. It only costs £125 per person, they are offered once a month, and they have been selling out lately. People are waking up. It all goes to charity, not me, not the LSE, although I'm using their facilities. Even if you don't like/agree with the message, it will give you something to think about, more that the fluff you've been getting from main stream media and keep regurgitating on here. What do you have to lose other than two hours of your time? Or, are you frightened to have your eyes opened?
It may just give you a chance to understand what the Keynesian, Austrian and everything in between schools are all about, not what just a few broad brush articles you read say they are.
It's all up to you, and I do hope you walk up and introduce yourself.
David
Do yourself a favour and sign up for one of my public presentations at the LSE. It only costs £125 per person, they are offered once a month, and they have been selling out lately. People are waking up. It all goes to charity, not me, not the LSE, although I'm using their facilities. Even if you don't like/agree with the message, it will give you something to think about, more that the fluff you've been getting from main stream media and keep regurgitating on here. What do you have to lose other than two hours of your time? Or, are you frightened to have your eyes opened?
It may just give you a chance to understand what the Keynesian, Austrian and everything in between schools are all about, not what just a few broad brush articles you read say they are.
It's all up to you, and I do hope you walk up and introduce yourself.
David
Well there you are.
The chance to meet Menelaus in person.
Too far for me to travel to the UK at the drop of a hat unfortunately.
But I sure would be tempted to attend one of his lectures if I lived in London or nearby.
I wonder if he allows challenges from the floor, or whether is it the usual " just shut up and listen you idiots " type delivery.
The chance to meet Menelaus in person.
Too far for me to travel to the UK at the drop of a hat unfortunately.
But I sure would be tempted to attend one of his lectures if I lived in London or nearby.
I wonder if he allows challenges from the floor, or whether is it the usual " just shut up and listen you idiots " type delivery.
I have just reread Menelaus' last post just to make sure that I am actually seeing what I'm seeing.
That is the phrase in the middle of the 2nd para " Even if you don't like/agree with the message ---- ".
Now that's a change in tone for once.
Actually allows room for some doubt or counter opinions in the whole debate.
Nice to see at last.
That is the phrase in the middle of the 2nd para " Even if you don't like/agree with the message ---- ".
Now that's a change in tone for once.
Actually allows room for some doubt or counter opinions in the whole debate.
Nice to see at last.
Menelaus
If I'm ever down in London I'll certainly do that although like for FineAs it is quite a journey for me. What is your second name by the way? Not that I'm doubting the veracity of your claim of course.
If I'm ever down in London I'll certainly do that although like for FineAs it is quite a journey for me. What is your second name by the way? Not that I'm doubting the veracity of your claim of course.
By the way how do you know I'll walk up and introduce myself? I might just walk up and give you a clump round the canister for being lairy.
I don't think I'm invited like you have been EO.
So if you ever do go take a few Austrian wieners with you to lob from the back of the lecture hall,on my behalf, if he starts to get too strident, one eyed and condescending as per usual.
So if you ever do go take a few Austrian wieners with you to lob from the back of the lecture hall,on my behalf, if he starts to get too strident, one eyed and condescending as per usual.
I posted my full name on here long ago, other posters including the other chap on this thread can attest to that, and it turned out to be a big mistake. The hateful mail I received from the down under halfwit duo was beyond vile. They were raised in filth, I should expected no less. Never again.
You'll have to decide the "veracity" of what I posted or whether I'm trying to manage your perceptions on your own. Besides, I gave you more than enough to verify what I posted without having to share more personal info on this lunatic playground. All you have to be is a little resourceful.
As far as the "clump around the canister" is concerned, you may have to rethink that once you come close. Or, perhaps you thought my training in psy-ops came from being a member in my local church's choir.
You'll have to decide the "veracity" of what I posted or whether I'm trying to manage your perceptions on your own. Besides, I gave you more than enough to verify what I posted without having to share more personal info on this lunatic playground. All you have to be is a little resourceful.
As far as the "clump around the canister" is concerned, you may have to rethink that once you come close. Or, perhaps you thought my training in psy-ops came from being a member in my local church's choir.
"Or, perhaps you thought my training in psy-ops came from being a member in my local church's choir."
no, i don't think even the nutjob scientologists or the atheists would accept you for choir duty.
no, i don't think even the nutjob scientologists or the atheists would accept you for choir duty.
"Do yourself a favour and sign up for one of my public presentations at the LSE"
melly are you confessing to be an academic? a lifeform even lower than the clueless bedsit dwelling moocher we had you pegged for?
melly are you confessing to be an academic? a lifeform even lower than the clueless bedsit dwelling moocher we had you pegged for?
This cat is even more crazy than me. Bowie knife in one hand and a copy of The Wealth Of Nations in the other.
And he must be older than Methuselah having got a degree, spent 20 years in the economics field and saved the country with his bare hands at least 5 times.
Oooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
And he must be older than Methuselah having got a degree, spent 20 years in the economics field and saved the country with his bare hands at least 5 times.
Oooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
There's no hope for you. None whatsoever.
Everyone of your posts is still screams in pain from being wounded. You need to get over it. In business, real life business that is not the make believe trades mugs post on here, I've taken fellows to school that could wipe the floor with you. So don't feel devastated, it happens. Touch base again when you heal, although I suspect that might be a long time.
In the meantime, you continue to be ALL FLUFF AND NO SUBSTANCE.....and on the wrong forum.
Everyone of your posts is still screams in pain from being wounded. You need to get over it. In business, real life business that is not the make believe trades mugs post on here, I've taken fellows to school that could wipe the floor with you. So don't feel devastated, it happens. Touch base again when you heal, although I suspect that might be a long time.
In the meantime, you continue to be ALL FLUFF AND NO SUBSTANCE.....and on the wrong forum.
I suggest you look the word brevity up because you seem to have turned Jefferson's doctrine on its head by using ten words when one will do. Even worse you say so much without saying anything at all. What a bore you are.
By the way I'm still waiting for the answer to my economic theory question. Isn't that supposed to be your specialist subject? Or have I confused you with the other guy and you are the go to guy for bullshiit?
There's a word when someone is seething and posts multiple posts on numerous threads trying to desperately get someone's attention.
I can't quite think of it at the moment but it will come to me....
I can't quite think of it at the moment but it will come to me....
I'll bet when you do you don't spell it correctly. 
I would readily move on from all this distasteful banter between Menelaus and pretty much all this forum, if he would simply explain why he is so right and all other equally qualified economists are so wrong.
It can't be that black and white logically ?.
Also the markets are obviously equivocal about the whole matter or they would have been reduced to near zero by now.
I know that Menelaus explains their relative strength as being totally due to Govt. manipulation and intervention.
But again, is that the case without any doubt at all ?
Menelaus would gain my respect on here by listing all the major counter arguments against his version of the future, and destroying them unconditionally.
But he won't ( or can't ?) do that.
I have confessed to not being an economic literate.
Therefore in the real world, not the forum world, I spend an inordinate amount of time in researching and selecting qualified advisers to invest my monies ( which are substantial having been gained from patent royalties from a very lucky invention).
And whilst Menelaus ( and his boutique investment firm) have never seemingly been on my radar for whatever reason, I can tell you that at least Menelaus personally would never be selected by me to manage any part of my assets.
For simple starters, he fails two critical tests that I use at the very outset to rate potential advisers.
They must show that they have open and flexible minds, and also that they are aware that they can and will make bad misjudgements at times.
Menelaus is imo the most dangerous type of expert, being one who is not only closed to other opinions, but also is convinced that he cannot be possibly wrong.
I rest my case. Just like Menelaus I am getting bored by all the repetition.
It can't be that black and white logically ?.
Also the markets are obviously equivocal about the whole matter or they would have been reduced to near zero by now.
I know that Menelaus explains their relative strength as being totally due to Govt. manipulation and intervention.
But again, is that the case without any doubt at all ?
Menelaus would gain my respect on here by listing all the major counter arguments against his version of the future, and destroying them unconditionally.
But he won't ( or can't ?) do that.
I have confessed to not being an economic literate.
Therefore in the real world, not the forum world, I spend an inordinate amount of time in researching and selecting qualified advisers to invest my monies ( which are substantial having been gained from patent royalties from a very lucky invention).
And whilst Menelaus ( and his boutique investment firm) have never seemingly been on my radar for whatever reason, I can tell you that at least Menelaus personally would never be selected by me to manage any part of my assets.
For simple starters, he fails two critical tests that I use at the very outset to rate potential advisers.
They must show that they have open and flexible minds, and also that they are aware that they can and will make bad misjudgements at times.
Menelaus is imo the most dangerous type of expert, being one who is not only closed to other opinions, but also is convinced that he cannot be possibly wrong.
I rest my case. Just like Menelaus I am getting bored by all the repetition.
Price you say? How apt.
The man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
The man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
I realy think it's quite unanimus uv been destroyed eo.
I think u need to take ur dirty contact lenses out, clean em an d re-read. Lol.
I feel sowi for u grandad. U just dnt stop chatin bs. Even ur imaginary mates have stoped following yah. Ermmmmmm apart from froggy. Lol.
Question for melenius:
Ok so u think we r f00ked. No doubt.
Can u give us a breakdown of timescale.
Some r saying mad riots predicated in the uk in 2022. Is that about right!!!
I think u need to take ur dirty contact lenses out, clean em an d re-read. Lol.
I feel sowi for u grandad. U just dnt stop chatin bs. Even ur imaginary mates have stoped following yah. Ermmmmmm apart from froggy. Lol.
Question for melenius:
Ok so u think we r f00ked. No doubt.
Can u give us a breakdown of timescale.
Some r saying mad riots predicated in the uk in 2022. Is that about right!!!
carlos
I'll get the popcorn out and wait for Melly's reply to you.
I'll get the popcorn out and wait for Melly's reply to you.
" I've taken fellows to school that could wipe the floor with you."
confirmation of a total meltdown by melly.
he's a lecturer- no surprise there
he takes the illuminati "to school" yet he is unable to post a single winner on this forum.
The most deluded nutjob ever to post in the history of forums.
His current claims amongst his most bizzare.
I'm waiting for the one where he claims he was in the train on squad for the english soccer team for the world cup.
What a sad sack.
confirmation of a total meltdown by melly.
he's a lecturer- no surprise there
he takes the illuminati "to school" yet he is unable to post a single winner on this forum.
The most deluded nutjob ever to post in the history of forums.
His current claims amongst his most bizzare.
I'm waiting for the one where he claims he was in the train on squad for the english soccer team for the world cup.
What a sad sack.
Menelaus 29 Jun 12 16:01
Sorry bongo, but you're offside on this one.
You interpretation of only the debtors having a problem in a "debt crisis" is very narrow. Gross is absolutely correct. The world, both creditor and debtor nations have a huge issue in a debt crisis, not just the US and EEA who are "living massively beyond their means" and they are "the only ones having a debt crisis". Those who have lent them the money (China, Japan, etc.) and enabled them to live beyond their means (so that they could buy their exports) will also feel the pain, in some ways actually a lot worse than the debtors. When the debtors either default, devalue or impose austerity as part of the deleveraging process, the creditors will be hugely impacted, there's no escape from that. And all that without even mentioning the global interconnectedness of the banking system.
The analysis is indeed simplistic but that's because today's monetary system model is simplistic. The system relies an infinite and expanding growth to pay the coupon or it collapses. It's that simple. That's why when we stop borrowing or default on our loans (bank balance sheet deflation) , the government steps in and borrows on our behalf, whether we like it or not, so that the ponzi can continue. When banks are insolvent, the central banks step in and the accounting rules get changed so the ponzi can continue for a little longer hoping for a miracle to come along. When sovereigns are bankrupt, money is created out of thin air to prolong the ponzi again and so that………zombie banks can live another day. The ECB would violate its mandate if it prints directly like the FED and the BoE so they go through gyrations to get around the legal obstacles but it's still printing none the less. This is the stage we're at now.
Inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing if its organic. More real growth, more money created, more velocity, etc. But not when it's the result of the central bank increasing the money supply for the sole purpose of propping dead banks. Deflation is not necessarily a bad thing either but that's another discussion all together.
Everyone on here keeps looking for the solution. I mean if it's a problem, there's must be a solution. We are wired that way. What everyone fails to see is that this is a predicament without a solution. The system was designed to some day fail from the outset. All ponzis eventually fail.
What Gross didn't mention is that both options of defaulting on bad paper and clearing the system or more money printing to cover the gapping hole, end up at the same place. Collapse of a monetary system that has now crossed well into Twilight Zone territory. But the central banks will choose money printing, they always have, they always will. There has NEVER been a single example of a financial or currency collapse because of deflation whereas the road to hyperinflation is littered with hundreds of such examples. This time won't be any different……..and all the "hope" in the universe won't change that.
P.S. In the US, at current spending levels, the debt ceiling will be hit this fall just before the election, not in the summer of 2013.
charlatan 29 Jun 12 18:40
The system relies an infinite and expanding growth to pay the coupon or it collapses.
since it has never had that why is it still with us?
sean rua 29 Jun 12 19:09
Menelaus,
whether you're right or whether you're wrong, that is, sir, one helluva fine post, imo!
Thank you.
Maybe it rings a bell in my aged head or something.
I remember more than forty five years ago, when I was keen to change the world and rid it of its ills, I was involved with a kinda revolutionary Irish workers thing.
And, d'you know what?
We used to say, as a key plank in our anti-capitalist statement,
that the rulers were printing money and causing problems!
Even though I was a hot-headed and passionate believer back then, little did i think that I'd ever see the day
when a similar theory was put forward on a place like this.
Btw, I honestly think that this bit of your approach is right on. What I don't know, however, is where exactly do we go from here?
I can clearly see that the present set up is flawed and unsustainable. Most folk can, if they're honest.
My main worry about the future is that people in general ( including myself) seem just as fkn stupid as we were in my day - and that's despite all the technological advance and spread of so-called education.
I can't see us grasping the nettle and doing something constructive to build a better framework for human activity.
Maybe I'm just a tired and jaded, negative old bstrd, but now that capitalism in the West looks to be tottering to its death, I somehow ain't filled with gladness and joy.
Perhaps things long dreamed about are never quite as good when they seem to be coming true.
There you go, yet another post to add to the pile.
FINE AS FROG HAIR 29 Jun 12 19:36
" This is a predicament without a solution" .
That is the essence of everything that Menelaus is posting day in day out.
And that's my problem in believing him.
If that is so clear cut and indisputable, then why are there serious economists out there ( a majority in fact ?) who are debating otherwise ?
Are they all simply just misinformed, or are they all part of a political conspiracy to keep the truth from the masses?.
I am never one to believe in these conspiracy type theories, as it seems too far fetched to be able to control the truth on such a fundamental issue which, if true, will affect the lives of everybody in the world in an extremely distressing manner, to say the very least.
FINE AS FROG HAIR 29 Jun 12 19:38
Cue in the climate change conspiracists now I suppose.
FINE AS FROG HAIR 29 Jun 12 19:46
Also he posts " ---What Gross doesn't mention ----- collapse of a monetary system --- "
Maybe, just maybe, it's because Gross does not think this is CERTAIN.
But if he does think that ( and I don't really know if he does or doesn't), then he becomes an idiot in Menelaus' eyes presumably ?
Btw he would then join some good company.
Menelaus is already on record on here in posting that in his opinion Warren Buffet is going to go down as the most disgraced investor of all times.
Eeternaloptimist 29 Jun 12 21:19
FineAs
Turn it on its head. Instead of contemplating which economists disagree with The Great Oz perhaps it would be easier to compile a list of those who agree with him.
I'll start us off:
Nope. None found yet.
bongo 29 Jun 12 22:31
. . . at current spending levels, the debt ceiling will be hit this fall just before the election
I agree with sean - fine post menelaus - am almost out of breath after reading it. Will have to read up a little on hyper-inflation - are there any good books out there? It seems more likely than default imv, but has chilling consequences presumably as people won't trade in the currency the govt is printing if they can find another unit of exchange. The govt on the other hand would insist, at the point of a gun presumably, that they can purchase the services of their employees and contractors with the rapidly devaluing coin they are minting. It would lead to tyranny.
Oh for the days of balanced budgets, I miss them so.
FINE AS FROG HAIR 29 Jun 12 23:21
Come on bongo.
An intelligent guy like you falling unconditionally for this overhyped rant from Menelaus ?
You really have that little faith in all the counter moderate opinions out there being expressed daily by experienced, respected
economists ?
Have they all been bought off in some form or manner ?
Are they all expressing opinions with no theoretical validity ? Are they ALL fools to hold such opinions ?
Eeternaloptimist 30 Jun 12 00:05
FineAs/Bongo
To be fair to menelaus I don't think it is an overhyped rant. It is very likely what is going to happen in my view. Not certain but very likely. By the way, I'll save you the trouble of looking for economists who agree with Melly because I know who they are and so does he and they are pretty much all AUSTRIAN SCHOOL ECONOMISTS. Just remember the quote I gave you from Mises and it all falls into place.
Which is why I keep asking him why he doesn't just come out of the closet and why he keeps refusing to answer. He isn't clever. He can just regurgitate what someone else has prophesied.
FINE AS FROG HAIR 30 Jun 12 01:39
If it's ok with you EO, I think I'll still go with the moderate camp out there.
There's a problem, we've identified it, we're trying to fix it without bringing the whole financial system crashing down.
Most importantly don't panic, don't overreact.
Not quite trust me I'm a doctor stuff, but along those lines. Perhaps I'm naive and innocent and stupid as Menelaus implies, but it has got me through life so far with a considerable nest egg tucked under my belt ( basically I lucked out tbh). I hope it all doesn't disappear in hyperinflationary smoke. It would be most annoying to have to start all over again at the bottom of the woodpile. I'm afraid to say that I have not kept my skills up to date, not my working ones that is.
The only thing that I know from all this is that we will not have learnt any lessons, and it will all happen again some time down the road. Quite depressing really.
Mcben, eo, frog do u not have an onze of pride. Even the guys u praise are get destroyed, at least the have the decency to admit it. After a bit of encouragement from
eo bongo and co still think could be right. Bongo, Seon etc etc are at least starting to understand wat an idiot u r eo. This is ur intelligence level
Sorry bongo, but you're offside on this one.
You interpretation of only the debtors having a problem in a "debt crisis" is very narrow. Gross is absolutely correct. The world, both creditor and debtor nations have a huge issue in a debt crisis, not just the US and EEA who are "living massively beyond their means" and they are "the only ones having a debt crisis". Those who have lent them the money (China, Japan, etc.) and enabled them to live beyond their means (so that they could buy their exports) will also feel the pain, in some ways actually a lot worse than the debtors. When the debtors either default, devalue or impose austerity as part of the deleveraging process, the creditors will be hugely impacted, there's no escape from that. And all that without even mentioning the global interconnectedness of the banking system.
The analysis is indeed simplistic but that's because today's monetary system model is simplistic. The system relies an infinite and expanding growth to pay the coupon or it collapses. It's that simple. That's why when we stop borrowing or default on our loans (bank balance sheet deflation) , the government steps in and borrows on our behalf, whether we like it or not, so that the ponzi can continue. When banks are insolvent, the central banks step in and the accounting rules get changed so the ponzi can continue for a little longer hoping for a miracle to come along. When sovereigns are bankrupt, money is created out of thin air to prolong the ponzi again and so that………zombie banks can live another day. The ECB would violate its mandate if it prints directly like the FED and the BoE so they go through gyrations to get around the legal obstacles but it's still printing none the less. This is the stage we're at now.
Inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing if its organic. More real growth, more money created, more velocity, etc. But not when it's the result of the central bank increasing the money supply for the sole purpose of propping dead banks. Deflation is not necessarily a bad thing either but that's another discussion all together.
Everyone on here keeps looking for the solution. I mean if it's a problem, there's must be a solution. We are wired that way. What everyone fails to see is that this is a predicament without a solution. The system was designed to some day fail from the outset. All ponzis eventually fail.
What Gross didn't mention is that both options of defaulting on bad paper and clearing the system or more money printing to cover the gapping hole, end up at the same place. Collapse of a monetary system that has now crossed well into Twilight Zone territory. But the central banks will choose money printing, they always have, they always will. There has NEVER been a single example of a financial or currency collapse because of deflation whereas the road to hyperinflation is littered with hundreds of such examples. This time won't be any different……..and all the "hope" in the universe won't change that.
P.S. In the US, at current spending levels, the debt ceiling will be hit this fall just before the election, not in the summer of 2013.
charlatan 29 Jun 12 18:40
The system relies an infinite and expanding growth to pay the coupon or it collapses.
since it has never had that why is it still with us?
sean rua 29 Jun 12 19:09
Menelaus,
whether you're right or whether you're wrong, that is, sir, one helluva fine post, imo!
Thank you.
Maybe it rings a bell in my aged head or something.
I remember more than forty five years ago, when I was keen to change the world and rid it of its ills, I was involved with a kinda revolutionary Irish workers thing.
And, d'you know what?
We used to say, as a key plank in our anti-capitalist statement,
that the rulers were printing money and causing problems!
Even though I was a hot-headed and passionate believer back then, little did i think that I'd ever see the day
when a similar theory was put forward on a place like this.
Btw, I honestly think that this bit of your approach is right on. What I don't know, however, is where exactly do we go from here?
I can clearly see that the present set up is flawed and unsustainable. Most folk can, if they're honest.
My main worry about the future is that people in general ( including myself) seem just as fkn stupid as we were in my day - and that's despite all the technological advance and spread of so-called education.
I can't see us grasping the nettle and doing something constructive to build a better framework for human activity.
Maybe I'm just a tired and jaded, negative old bstrd, but now that capitalism in the West looks to be tottering to its death, I somehow ain't filled with gladness and joy.
Perhaps things long dreamed about are never quite as good when they seem to be coming true.
There you go, yet another post to add to the pile.
FINE AS FROG HAIR 29 Jun 12 19:36
" This is a predicament without a solution" .
That is the essence of everything that Menelaus is posting day in day out.
And that's my problem in believing him.
If that is so clear cut and indisputable, then why are there serious economists out there ( a majority in fact ?) who are debating otherwise ?
Are they all simply just misinformed, or are they all part of a political conspiracy to keep the truth from the masses?.
I am never one to believe in these conspiracy type theories, as it seems too far fetched to be able to control the truth on such a fundamental issue which, if true, will affect the lives of everybody in the world in an extremely distressing manner, to say the very least.
FINE AS FROG HAIR 29 Jun 12 19:38
Cue in the climate change conspiracists now I suppose.
FINE AS FROG HAIR 29 Jun 12 19:46
Also he posts " ---What Gross doesn't mention ----- collapse of a monetary system --- "
Maybe, just maybe, it's because Gross does not think this is CERTAIN.
But if he does think that ( and I don't really know if he does or doesn't), then he becomes an idiot in Menelaus' eyes presumably ?
Btw he would then join some good company.
Menelaus is already on record on here in posting that in his opinion Warren Buffet is going to go down as the most disgraced investor of all times.
Eeternaloptimist 29 Jun 12 21:19
FineAs
Turn it on its head. Instead of contemplating which economists disagree with The Great Oz perhaps it would be easier to compile a list of those who agree with him.
I'll start us off:
Nope. None found yet.
bongo 29 Jun 12 22:31
. . . at current spending levels, the debt ceiling will be hit this fall just before the election
I agree with sean - fine post menelaus - am almost out of breath after reading it. Will have to read up a little on hyper-inflation - are there any good books out there? It seems more likely than default imv, but has chilling consequences presumably as people won't trade in the currency the govt is printing if they can find another unit of exchange. The govt on the other hand would insist, at the point of a gun presumably, that they can purchase the services of their employees and contractors with the rapidly devaluing coin they are minting. It would lead to tyranny.
Oh for the days of balanced budgets, I miss them so.
FINE AS FROG HAIR 29 Jun 12 23:21
Come on bongo.
An intelligent guy like you falling unconditionally for this overhyped rant from Menelaus ?
You really have that little faith in all the counter moderate opinions out there being expressed daily by experienced, respected
economists ?
Have they all been bought off in some form or manner ?
Are they all expressing opinions with no theoretical validity ? Are they ALL fools to hold such opinions ?
Eeternaloptimist 30 Jun 12 00:05
FineAs/Bongo
To be fair to menelaus I don't think it is an overhyped rant. It is very likely what is going to happen in my view. Not certain but very likely. By the way, I'll save you the trouble of looking for economists who agree with Melly because I know who they are and so does he and they are pretty much all AUSTRIAN SCHOOL ECONOMISTS. Just remember the quote I gave you from Mises and it all falls into place.
Which is why I keep asking him why he doesn't just come out of the closet and why he keeps refusing to answer. He isn't clever. He can just regurgitate what someone else has prophesied.
FINE AS FROG HAIR 30 Jun 12 01:39
If it's ok with you EO, I think I'll still go with the moderate camp out there.
There's a problem, we've identified it, we're trying to fix it without bringing the whole financial system crashing down.
Most importantly don't panic, don't overreact.
Not quite trust me I'm a doctor stuff, but along those lines. Perhaps I'm naive and innocent and stupid as Menelaus implies, but it has got me through life so far with a considerable nest egg tucked under my belt ( basically I lucked out tbh). I hope it all doesn't disappear in hyperinflationary smoke. It would be most annoying to have to start all over again at the bottom of the woodpile. I'm afraid to say that I have not kept my skills up to date, not my working ones that is.
The only thing that I know from all this is that we will not have learnt any lessons, and it will all happen again some time down the road. Quite depressing really.
Mcben, eo, frog do u not have an onze of pride. Even the guys u praise are get destroyed, at least the have the decency to admit it. After a bit of encouragement from
eo bongo and co still think could be right. Bongo, Seon etc etc are at least starting to understand wat an idiot u r eo. This is ur intelligence level
Where would humanity be without you? Keep up the good work.
I think melly may have completely melted down.
The 277 point rally was too much for the armageddon junkie to bear.
The 277 point rally was too much for the armageddon junkie to bear.
Hey Carlos come over to the light side of the street. We've got running water and everything. If you stay over on the dark side Melly will keep ignoring your questions, you will end up with frost bite and your diick will drop off. Assuming Melly hasn't already put it on his mantelpiece.
melly may have already taken carlos's head and preserved it in a large glass jar.He is probsbly on his way to store in in an old car stored in a long term lease garage with a
dodgy door.
Does melly own a small dog named "precious'?
dodgy door.
Does melly own a small dog named "precious'?
Fella went to carlos house and asked if he was in. The cretin who answered the door said, "he's not in. He's at Cambridge." Impressed that carlos could have risen from such humble beginnings, surrounded by such obvious idiocy to such a place of learning he said, "what is he doing at Cambridge?". The cretin replied, "sitting in a jar."
Awesome. It looks like you joined the clown team of benny the clown. Your comedy routine needs a lot of improving but at least it's coming from the heart, not a superficial understanding of economics. The former makes me laugh, the latter makes me cry.
Can't help you there. I tend not to go for superficial. I'm sure I can put you in touch with someone on your level though.
Carlos.
Carlos.
Egotism is a funny thing - you make a prediction, you announce it and explain it, and then you actually end up wanting it to come true even if it hurts you, because it makes you look good. Being right on a public forum about something massages your ego. I occasionally provide ratings for a web-site and when I've bet on something I haven't published and it wins, it hurts. 'Hey, why didn't I announce that ahead of time to anyone who'd listen' the little voice says. How clever would that seem? Worse is when you announce that x will win, but back y, and coming down the 18th it's x vs y, and you want x to win. That's ego at work. The corollary is true also imv, in that when someone with a very big ego gets something wrong, it also makes you feel goo-ood. Seeing the big guy take a knock.
This character menelaus seems to have this effect - he gets under your skin despite a lot of interesting postings - and I end up wanting the US Federal Govt to see it through to spring 2013 before the buffoonish dance with Congress asking for help raising the debt ceiling again just so he looks clever and I look foolish. Egotism again.
In the meantime - I'm thinking of buying this book on hyperinflation:.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Profit-Coming-Hyperinflation-Henry-Zimmer/dp/0825302536
It has no reviews - and on title appears to have got it completely wrong. Sounds interesting.
This character menelaus seems to have this effect - he gets under your skin despite a lot of interesting postings - and I end up wanting the US Federal Govt to see it through to spring 2013 before the buffoonish dance with Congress asking for help raising the debt ceiling again just so he looks clever and I look foolish. Egotism again.
In the meantime - I'm thinking of buying this book on hyperinflation:.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Profit-Coming-Hyperinflation-Henry-Zimmer/dp/0825302536
It has no reviews - and on title appears to have got it completely wrong. Sounds interesting.
bongo
You seem a knowledgable and level headed sort of chap. A lot of what you post there seems reasonable. One thing I'd take issue with you is specifically on menelaus. There is far too much of the smoke and mirrors about him and bragging for its own sake. I've seen some posts worth reading from him but it's hardly as if he is bestowing great pearls of wisdom but if anybody has any evidence of this I'd sure like to read it. He seems to say very little, too loudly with little attempt to enlighten and with a liberal sprinkling of self promotion. Economics seems not dissimilar to sociology and consequently nobody should be placed on a pedestal especially someone who is always looking far over the horizon and thus can never be held to account.
You seem a knowledgable and level headed sort of chap. A lot of what you post there seems reasonable. One thing I'd take issue with you is specifically on menelaus. There is far too much of the smoke and mirrors about him and bragging for its own sake. I've seen some posts worth reading from him but it's hardly as if he is bestowing great pearls of wisdom but if anybody has any evidence of this I'd sure like to read it. He seems to say very little, too loudly with little attempt to enlighten and with a liberal sprinkling of self promotion. Economics seems not dissimilar to sociology and consequently nobody should be placed on a pedestal especially someone who is always looking far over the horizon and thus can never be held to account.
I told you the most valuable thing of all, how this ends, what more do you want?
Or is posting fluff on here that you are *slightly* leaning towards owning hard assets, mistaking what Friedmanism really is, not understanding Keen and his proposed solution, and taking a Mises quote totally out of context give you a pass to incessantly post rubbish and fluff dressed in colorful language trying to pass it off as substance.
Hyperinflation is how this ends, the will print until faith in fiat is lost, they have no other tools and certainly no Plan B. The problem with you and the rest of the members of the benny the clown halfwit cartel (bongo is not one of them) is interpreting the word "ends" to mean.......tomorrow. There are very powerful forces at work trying to protect their position of power and control and they will use every trick in the book to pull the wool over your eyes. They will lie, obfuscate, change rules, break the law and won't hesitate to do whatever it takes to prolong their position of power and the existing system that benefits them. That's not hard to do when you can conjure money out of thin air, own the people's representatives and installed an education system that has done a phenomenal job in dumbing down people.
You are a prime example. They taught you how to read and write well but they didn't inject a morsel of interest in you to inquire, question, research and critically examine what's beneath the surface.
You claim to be able to paint the Mona Lisa and criticize others on here yet all you've showed you have in your hands so far is a roller brush.
Or is posting fluff on here that you are *slightly* leaning towards owning hard assets, mistaking what Friedmanism really is, not understanding Keen and his proposed solution, and taking a Mises quote totally out of context give you a pass to incessantly post rubbish and fluff dressed in colorful language trying to pass it off as substance.
Hyperinflation is how this ends, the will print until faith in fiat is lost, they have no other tools and certainly no Plan B. The problem with you and the rest of the members of the benny the clown halfwit cartel (bongo is not one of them) is interpreting the word "ends" to mean.......tomorrow. There are very powerful forces at work trying to protect their position of power and control and they will use every trick in the book to pull the wool over your eyes. They will lie, obfuscate, change rules, break the law and won't hesitate to do whatever it takes to prolong their position of power and the existing system that benefits them. That's not hard to do when you can conjure money out of thin air, own the people's representatives and installed an education system that has done a phenomenal job in dumbing down people.
You are a prime example. They taught you how to read and write well but they didn't inject a morsel of interest in you to inquire, question, research and critically examine what's beneath the surface.
You claim to be able to paint the Mona Lisa and criticize others on here yet all you've showed you have in your hands so far is a roller brush.
Or is posting fluff on here that you are *slightly* leaning towards owning hard assets, mistaking what Friedmanism really is, not understanding Keen and his proposed solution, and taking a Mises quote totally out of context give you a pass to incessantly post rubbish and fluff dressed in colorful language trying to pass it off as substance.
None of which is true but you've said it enough to convince yourself and that is all that is important in Melly World isn't it?
None of which is true but you've said it enough to convince yourself and that is all that is important in Melly World isn't it?
There are very powerful forces at work trying to protect their position of power and control and they will use every trick in the book to pull the wool over your eyes. They will lie, obfuscate, change rules, break the law and won't hesitate to do whatever it takes to prolong their position of power and the existing system that benefits them.
Seems to me that you are making a very powerful argument for the proposition that this could go on for a long time. Which won't make any difference to me because I'm hedged whichever way it goes. In the meantime you can keep barking at the moon and flapping your chops.
Seems to me that you are making a very powerful argument for the proposition that this could go on for a long time. Which won't make any difference to me because I'm hedged whichever way it goes. In the meantime you can keep barking at the moon and flapping your chops.
Anatomy of a horrid post:
Seems to me that you are making a very powerful argument for the proposition that this could go on for a long time. Which won't make any difference to me because I'm hedged whichever way it goes. In the meantime you can keep barking at the moon and flapping your chops
Seems to me that you are making a very powerful argument for the proposition that this could go on for a long time
I could put up a 3,000 word post on the indicators that the CBs are losing control. You don't deserve it and it would go over your head so why bother. Your statement is yet another indication that you are massively confused by current events. Use your brain, if you have one, and start asking questions. What is the problem with this financial crisis? What has been their answer so far? What has been the half-life of policy responses and market interventions, and why does that half-life seem to get shorter and shorter? Why, almost five years into this and 20 plus trillion thrown at the perceived problem, the monster is still there? Why can't CBs unwind the mountain of derivatives in the banking system? (I can give you a menu of another couple of dozen questions but I'm getting tired of holding your hand and pointing you to the light. Besides you have proven too much of a numbskull to even attempt to give you the answers. A flowery language kind of a numbskull, but a numbskull nonetheless.
The minute anyone who can fog a mirror internalizes that REAL inflation is significantly over the UST yield the game is over right there and then. There's your timing right there, but sadly I'm sure you haven't a clue what that means, what the implications are and why I'm arguing that will be the catalyst. Nor I'm about to tell you. Show up at one of my lectures and find out.
Which won't make any difference to me because I'm hedged whichever way it goes
Really? Hedged? How? Please elaborate because *slightly* leaning towards hard assets is about as close you came to posting anything relevant to being hedged. Besides, why hedge when you seem to have convinced yourself the CBs can drag out beyond your lifetime?
In the meantime you can keep barking at the moon and flapping your chop
Diversion, misdirection, just the usual stuff from you. You are all fluff and no substance......it shows. Get over it.
Seems to me that you are making a very powerful argument for the proposition that this could go on for a long time. Which won't make any difference to me because I'm hedged whichever way it goes. In the meantime you can keep barking at the moon and flapping your chops
Seems to me that you are making a very powerful argument for the proposition that this could go on for a long time
I could put up a 3,000 word post on the indicators that the CBs are losing control. You don't deserve it and it would go over your head so why bother. Your statement is yet another indication that you are massively confused by current events. Use your brain, if you have one, and start asking questions. What is the problem with this financial crisis? What has been their answer so far? What has been the half-life of policy responses and market interventions, and why does that half-life seem to get shorter and shorter? Why, almost five years into this and 20 plus trillion thrown at the perceived problem, the monster is still there? Why can't CBs unwind the mountain of derivatives in the banking system? (I can give you a menu of another couple of dozen questions but I'm getting tired of holding your hand and pointing you to the light. Besides you have proven too much of a numbskull to even attempt to give you the answers. A flowery language kind of a numbskull, but a numbskull nonetheless.
The minute anyone who can fog a mirror internalizes that REAL inflation is significantly over the UST yield the game is over right there and then. There's your timing right there, but sadly I'm sure you haven't a clue what that means, what the implications are and why I'm arguing that will be the catalyst. Nor I'm about to tell you. Show up at one of my lectures and find out.
Which won't make any difference to me because I'm hedged whichever way it goes
Really? Hedged? How? Please elaborate because *slightly* leaning towards hard assets is about as close you came to posting anything relevant to being hedged. Besides, why hedge when you seem to have convinced yourself the CBs can drag out beyond your lifetime?
In the meantime you can keep barking at the moon and flapping your chop
Diversion, misdirection, just the usual stuff from you. You are all fluff and no substance......it shows. Get over it.
Off topic......but I didn't know where to put this and I'm getting a little tired of you numbskulls.
I'm putting this up for the white space guy, the chap who has nothing to say but insists on saying it over and over again, the x-factor expert, yes, that guy.
If he thinks we can "muddle through" (or anyone else who thinks we will) then I need an answer to this two-part question:
What growth rate does Europe require to meet the obligations of its sovereign debt? Has growth rate ever reached that level in Europe or anywhere else in the past?
Some of us look at sh1t like that with hard numbers, not hope and green colored unicorns. Or think we'll muddle through because someone just finished reading article, by some paid shill, saying "everything will turn out okay".
My biggest contribution to this forum is......to make you think.
I'm putting this up for the white space guy, the chap who has nothing to say but insists on saying it over and over again, the x-factor expert, yes, that guy.
If he thinks we can "muddle through" (or anyone else who thinks we will) then I need an answer to this two-part question:
What growth rate does Europe require to meet the obligations of its sovereign debt? Has growth rate ever reached that level in Europe or anywhere else in the past?
Some of us look at sh1t like that with hard numbers, not hope and green colored unicorns. Or think we'll muddle through because someone just finished reading article, by some paid shill, saying "everything will turn out okay".
My biggest contribution to this forum is......to make you think.
I could put up a 3,000 word post on the indicators that the CBs are losing control. You don't deserve it and it would go over your head so why bother. Your statement is yet another indication that you are massively confused by current events. Use your brain, if you have one, and start asking questions. What is the problem with this financial crisis? What has been their answer so far? What has been the half-life of policy responses and market interventions, and why does that half-life seem to get shorter and shorter? Why, almost five years into this and 20 plus trillion thrown at the perceived problem, the monster is still there?
It's like I've already pointed out. One minute you are screaming at anybody and nobody in particularly to man the lifeboats as this sucker is going down and quick but the next when someone asks you to put some flesh on dem dar bones (carlos is the latest) you go all coy. You wouldn't want anything there for someone to quote back at you would you?
It's like I've already pointed out. One minute you are screaming at anybody and nobody in particularly to man the lifeboats as this sucker is going down and quick but the next when someone asks you to put some flesh on dem dar bones (carlos is the latest) you go all coy. You wouldn't want anything there for someone to quote back at you would you?
Best post from eo for sometime. I'm not copying u eo at all, I'm sure UNO this but this guy seems to have learnt this word hyperinflation and keeps going on about it like it has some secret meaning. And according to melenius bongo is an intelligent man because he wants to read a book on hyperinflation but melenius offers him a better solution which is to buy a ticket to his next presentation on some bs theory. Wait there lads, wait for it, here it is the price of that ticket is £125.
Wen eo asks him who he is for obvious reasons (charging £125 yo must be summit special) the guy come out with all this bull5hit that he once told a guy and he kept abusing him. Lolololololol.
And his wiped the floor with guys that would destroy all of us in and economic debate.
Wait for it this is the best 1. Always save the best for last:
only a week ago I asked this guy about house prices, how will they do over the next few years. His answer was they should go steadily downish for the next few years approx 30%. His exact words.
Then he has the nerve to talk about hyperinflation like it's guarnteed.
If hyperinflation is ur predication of the the economy in the next few years its impossible for house prices to lose just 30%. They would be worth f00k all.
Sowi for telling u some home truths.
Cheek of the man
Wen eo asks him who he is for obvious reasons (charging £125 yo must be summit special) the guy come out with all this bull5hit that he once told a guy and he kept abusing him. Lolololololol.
And his wiped the floor with guys that would destroy all of us in and economic debate.
Wait for it this is the best 1. Always save the best for last:
only a week ago I asked this guy about house prices, how will they do over the next few years. His answer was they should go steadily downish for the next few years approx 30%. His exact words.
Then he has the nerve to talk about hyperinflation like it's guarnteed.
If hyperinflation is ur predication of the the economy in the next few years its impossible for house prices to lose just 30%. They would be worth f00k all.
Sowi for telling u some home truths.
Cheek of the man
fkkn hell .The same rubbish over and over from melly " hyperinflation is where it ends, blah blah blah" OMG - please take a look at the "wrong for 1100 days in a row " thread.
newsflash to dropkicks melly and carlos- your on a one way train to oblivion through your own ignorance.Its your proper place in life.
No doubt we will have to put up with more of melly's one way diatribe for decades to come.
Someone please tell me why a punter would pay 125 pounds to listen to a buffoon when a 13yo economics student could tell you the same stuff for free.
Give me a break
newsflash to dropkicks melly and carlos- your on a one way train to oblivion through your own ignorance.Its your proper place in life.
No doubt we will have to put up with more of melly's one way diatribe for decades to come.
Someone please tell me why a punter would pay 125 pounds to listen to a buffoon when a 13yo economics student could tell you the same stuff for free.
Give me a break
Mr Ben
Even carlos has seen through him. Empty lifeboat to go with his empty rhetoric.
Even carlos has seen through him. Empty lifeboat to go with his empty rhetoric.
Of course his lifeboat won't be empty. I forgot his best friends Norman and Hilda will be with him. Take some cheese Melly. Rats are suppsoed to like cheese.
Is it really getting on for two years ago that Melly told us all to brace ourselves for the imminent arrival of an inflation tsunami?
No wonder he has given up on timeline predictions. If brains were bird shiit that crazy fool would have the cleanest cage around.
No wonder he has given up on timeline predictions. If brains were bird shiit that crazy fool would have the cleanest cage around.
To be fair, I think that was the only possible end game. I don't think it had a time span. Not much of a defence.
You are speaking in the past tense. There has been no tsunami yet and so the timeline is relevant when it was one of the few occasions when Melly was specific about something.
Eeternaloptimist 04 Jul 12 11:44
Mr Ben
Even carlos has seen through him. Empty lifeboat to go with his empty rhetoric.
Carlos posted a lot of derogatory stuff about you on here, but not once did I jumped on the bandwagon to applaud it or side with it. I know an illiterate fool when I see one.
You seeking solace and allies among the benny the clown halfwit cartel shows that you lack that ability.
Mr Ben
Even carlos has seen through him. Empty lifeboat to go with his empty rhetoric.
Carlos posted a lot of derogatory stuff about you on here, but not once did I jumped on the bandwagon to applaud it or side with it. I know an illiterate fool when I see one.
You seeking solace and allies among the benny the clown halfwit cartel shows that you lack that ability.
jump, not jumped
I'm pressed for time and there's a lot of sh1t to tip toe around on here
I'm pressed for time and there's a lot of sh1t to tip toe around on here
Menelaus 05 Jul 12 12:50
Eeternaloptimist 04 Jul 12 11:44
Mr Ben
Even carlos has seen through him. Empty lifeboat to go with his empty rhetoric.
Carlos posted a lot of derogatory stuff about you on here, but not once did I jump on the bandwagon to applaud it or side with it. I know an illiterate fool when I see one.
You seeking solace and allies among the benny the clown halfwit cartel shows that you lack that ability.
Either that or you are desperate. Choose wisely.
Eeternaloptimist 04 Jul 12 11:44
Mr Ben
Even carlos has seen through him. Empty lifeboat to go with his empty rhetoric.
Carlos posted a lot of derogatory stuff about you on here, but not once did I jump on the bandwagon to applaud it or side with it. I know an illiterate fool when I see one.
You seeking solace and allies among the benny the clown halfwit cartel shows that you lack that ability.
Either that or you are desperate. Choose wisely.
U had to post that 1 twice. Lolol. Under presure r we.
So wat ur trying to say u never jumped on the bandwagon so eo shouldn't, Even if it's the correct bandwagon.
Hyperinflation is something that could happen to the economy over the next decade or so. It could also happen in almost every place on earth too.
Just for the record, u write prety okish, but ur content is sh1t.
By the way, ur posts seem as though they take u ages to write. Alot of effort for some1 who charges 125 at conferences explaining some theory no1 on betfair gives a f00k about.
Oh yeh, ur mate bongo is also bonkers if he thinks buying a book on hyperinflation through ur reccomendations and his ur intelligent mate. Some1 ur trying to convince ur worth £125 a show.
I might not be interested in ur bull5hit theory but sure am interested in the Wimbledon theory. And views.
So wat ur trying to say u never jumped on the bandwagon so eo shouldn't, Even if it's the correct bandwagon.
Hyperinflation is something that could happen to the economy over the next decade or so. It could also happen in almost every place on earth too.
Just for the record, u write prety okish, but ur content is sh1t.
By the way, ur posts seem as though they take u ages to write. Alot of effort for some1 who charges 125 at conferences explaining some theory no1 on betfair gives a f00k about.
Oh yeh, ur mate bongo is also bonkers if he thinks buying a book on hyperinflation through ur reccomendations and his ur intelligent mate. Some1 ur trying to convince ur worth £125 a show.
I might not be interested in ur bull5hit theory but sure am interested in the Wimbledon theory. And views.
No mate, my posts don't take me ages to write, they just take you ages to read.
Big difference.
Big difference.
Nothing personal watsoever.
Ue very selective in which questions u answer.
U just seem to deal with the easy 1s.
Again I dnt disagree with ur hyperinflation thing, it's just some of ur statements r of extreme paradox.
Please explain
Ue very selective in which questions u answer.
U just seem to deal with the easy 1s.
Again I dnt disagree with ur hyperinflation thing, it's just some of ur statements r of extreme paradox.
Please explain
No mate, wrong again. I'm not selective *what* questions I answer, I'm very selective *whose* questions I answer. Wasting my time answering misquided troll questions, or stupid questions by posters who can't count to two without missing a number in between is not what I want to do.
Nothing personal, but answering your questions or debating anything with you on here is not something I'm interested in. I failed one-syllable gibberish in school so half the time I haven't the faintest of what you are talking about to be honest.
Cheers, and good luck.
Nothing personal, but answering your questions or debating anything with you on here is not something I'm interested in. I failed one-syllable gibberish in school so half the time I haven't the faintest of what you are talking about to be honest.
Cheers, and good luck.
Melly
Save us some time. Don't tell us what you failed. Tell us what you passed instead.
Save us some time. Don't tell us what you failed. Tell us what you passed instead.
It looks like I passed getting involuntary responses out of you with flying colors.
You are now defending carlos !!!!!!
I think I messed your mind up even worse than I thought. I got you to sleep with dogs with fleas in your anger. Now it seems like you've decided to go to bed with the entire kennel.
You are now defending carlos !!!!!!
I think I messed your mind up even worse than I thought. I got you to sleep with dogs with fleas in your anger. Now it seems like you've decided to go to bed with the entire kennel.
I'm far from angry. Obviously you don't recognise when the joke is on you but that is merely delusion. Everybody else does. That is what counts.
Now, just pause for a second, and ask yourself the question, why did I post that?
If you are now starting to have cold sweat running down your forehead then........you are starting to get it.
If you are now starting to have cold sweat running down your forehead then........you are starting to get it.
Poor Melly. Still riding that tsunami. Of bullshiit.
U my friend r a total nutcase.
I actualy thought u were posting some common sence. And at times I thought u were winning the argument with eo.
But after looking at the posts again I think I owe eo an apology.
Realy a truly u r a total utter nutcase melenius. I think ur a proper weirdo.
Look in the mirror and ask urself:
I'm chatin to people on here for free. Telling them facts and theories all for free.
Yet his on ere 5 mins later wanting 125 for exatcly the same thing.
His trying to do that on a gambling site.
Sh1t wats next.
Truly eo I did get a bit suckered in like u said, it's more to do with them words he was using (couldn't be asked to look em up in d dictionary as it didn't mean all dat to me) but my gosh his ramblings on r total rubbish.
I'm out
I actualy thought u were posting some common sence. And at times I thought u were winning the argument with eo.
But after looking at the posts again I think I owe eo an apology.
Realy a truly u r a total utter nutcase melenius. I think ur a proper weirdo.
Look in the mirror and ask urself:
I'm chatin to people on here for free. Telling them facts and theories all for free.
Yet his on ere 5 mins later wanting 125 for exatcly the same thing.
His trying to do that on a gambling site.
Sh1t wats next.
Truly eo I did get a bit suckered in like u said, it's more to do with them words he was using (couldn't be asked to look em up in d dictionary as it didn't mean all dat to me) but my gosh his ramblings on r total rubbish.
I'm out
I'l tell you what carlos me old son. That point has just knocked his bollox clean off. Who in their right mind would be on here spouting shiit for nowt when he supposedly has them banging on the locked doors to get in to pay him?
carlos- eventually everyone wakes up to melly- an utterly obnoxious fraud
. That point has just knocked his bollox clean off
fk your funny ETO
. That point has just knocked his bollox clean off
fk your funny ETO
Obviously being infested with fleas doesn't bother you.
You're either a pathetic hypocrite, or just desperate for any (and I mean when it comes to carlos, we're a couple of notches below "any") help.
Hmmmm, I wonder which it is....
You're either a pathetic hypocrite, or just desperate for any (and I mean when it comes to carlos, we're a couple of notches below "any") help.
Hmmmm, I wonder which it is....
carlos monzon
| Topic/replies: 6,544 | Blogger: carlos monzon's blog
U my friend r a total nutcase.
carlos twigs to the melly delusion.Just like J2 did eventually.
| Topic/replies: 6,544 | Blogger: carlos monzon's blog
U my friend r a total nutcase.
carlos twigs to the melly delusion.Just like J2 did eventually.
Melly
The difference between us seems to be that I don't think I have to be right about everything. My self esteem doesn't collapse when I make a mistake. Clearly you are very different. Consequently, I can respect carlos for having the honesty and integrity to admit he called it wrong about you. That takes something which you don't have, namely guts and character.
By the way you didn't answer his question and they seem to be piling up:
Why are you on here giving something away for free when you are beating them off with a shiitty stick at £125 a pop. Like so much about you it simply doesn't make sense.
The difference between us seems to be that I don't think I have to be right about everything. My self esteem doesn't collapse when I make a mistake. Clearly you are very different. Consequently, I can respect carlos for having the honesty and integrity to admit he called it wrong about you. That takes something which you don't have, namely guts and character.
By the way you didn't answer his question and they seem to be piling up:
Why are you on here giving something away for free when you are beating them off with a shiitty stick at £125 a pop. Like so much about you it simply doesn't make sense.
Yeah, I know what you mean, you don't have to be right about everything, but being wrong about everything eventually reveals something about you.
All fluff and no substance, in case you can't join the dots as to what the revelation is.
I'm waiting for you to tell me. Or will I have to pay £125 for that? Can I wait until after the tsunami has hit to pay you? That way your pearls of wisdom will seem cheap.
By the way I haven't been wrong about everything. I was right about you.
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