Tradefair & Financials

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08 Jan 12 16:21
Date Joined: 19 Feb 06
| Topic/replies: 7,224 | Blogger: melv's blog
Stuff the green belt, stop giving money to bankers and build houses and roads and infrastructure with it; where ever its needed. Create 100's of thousands of jobs and stop this house price bubble boll@cks.
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Report Whippet January 8, 2012 5:50 PM GMT
why would we want to irreversibly destroy our countryside?

Send the buggers back is a far better option.
Report charlatan January 8, 2012 6:29 PM GMT
we've already irreversibly destroyed what came before it. the notion of conserving an artificially created environment is an odd one.

build a massive new town on salisbury plain. free land, building funded with defence cuts.
Report melv January 9, 2012 12:41 PM GMT
I come from up north and much of former industrial land has reverted to countryside and lovely it is too. I lived in New mills the river used to be rainbow coloured and sterile. Now the place is picturesque; rivers full of fat trout. Better than if it had always been coutryside.

Nowt irreversible about building on fields. The big issue is that te houses are most needed down south. And various very powerful vested interests will not be having it for various reasons.

The main reason being that shortage of housing is the main way of enslaving the lower orders.
Report Thin and Crispy January 11, 2012 2:06 PM GMT
Imagine if housing was cheap and plentiful...nice idea but aint never gonna happen because if you didn't have to do that crappy job to keep a roof over your head how many would do it?
Report melv January 11, 2012 6:12 PM GMT

I have been thinking a lot about this idea of modern capitalism running on debt. If we see debt as owing x ammount of work or labour; then is not the whole idea debt bondage?

Cannot strike, cannot leave job, cannot lose job, when boss says jump then you say how high. Why? coz you have to keep paying out that labour you owe. Got to keep working or you will never do all the work you owe and your mortgage will be round your neck till you die.

Or put all your hope in house price booms to inflate all your debt bondage away.

Inspired by Menalaus.
Report sean rua January 11, 2012 9:57 PM GMT
Yep, capitalism works because sufficient numbers from the masses of ordinary folk BELIEVE in the millstone of debt that they misguidedly help to affix around their own necks.
Removing the burden is considered just too much effort and far too risky, so we tend to grin and bear it, while believing we are doing our bit to help.

My own belief is that it's one huge con trick. Self-delusion, perhaps?
Report Coachbuster January 11, 2012 11:36 PM GMT
idiotic from op

Britain is a beautiful country - leave it that way , there are enough monstrous sprawls as it is

maybe if there was a law restricting folk to one house and restricting mortgage offers to ONE income -everyone would have a home without having to pay way over the odds
Report PierreLaRogue January 12, 2012 6:15 AM GMT
But with capitalism one person should be able to own ALL the houses if they have the funds and if they so wish. If the bastards could charge you for the air you breathe they would, housing is one of lifes essentials, if you control the housing supply then you almost become godlike.
Report Menelaus January 12, 2012 11:50 AM GMT
There is NOTHING wrong with capitalism. Posters on here are confused, mistaking corporatism, cronyism and a heavy dose of fascism blended into one for capitalism.

They control the money supply which alows them to control the lawmakers and as a result entire societies and nations. That is not capitalism, nor was it ever intended to be, it's fascism designed exclusively for the benefit of the banking cartel and their friends.

Capitalism dies the very minute you don't allow insolvent institutions to fail.
Report melv January 12, 2012 6:03 PM GMT
Posters on here are confused, mistaking corporatism, cronyism and a heavy dose of fascism blended into one for capitalism.

Can't speak for other but I know I am confused. IMO thats a good start.

Are there really capitalists who are against corporatism cronyism and the banking cartel. I certainly can't think of any of the govts of this capitailist country who have been against the above. I'd vote for anyone who was. They all seem to grovel to the bankers etc. All this talk of standing up to the bankers; lies. They are in the Bankers pockets because they need fiat money to circulate.

BTW I am agin fascism. If you couln't tell; but we need to keep all that on poltics. It never ends. Mental illness IMO.
Report Menelaus January 12, 2012 8:58 PM GMT
melv, just a couple of thoughts.

Are there really capitalists who are against corporatism cronyism and the banking cartel?

Yes, lot's of them, I'm one of them.

I pull together mergers and acquisitions for some major players in the US economy. Some are people who have built their companies from the ground up, and amassed a great deal of wealth in the process by shear tenacity, street smarts and hard labour. Some have failed in the past and had to start all over again. Because that's how capitalism really works. You pull all the right moves, you succeed. You make mistakes, you fail. In true capitalism, there's no such thing as a bailout, TBTF or moral hazard. The system balances itself.

I can unequivocally tell you that they are absolutely disgusted with bankers and the money printing ponzi scheme. That system only benefits the banking cartel, their members and their friends AT THE EXPENSE OF ALL PRODUCTIVE PEOPLE WHO CREATE WEALTH THROUGH THEIR LABOUR.

BTW I am agin fascism. If you couln't tell; but we need to keep all that on poltics

I don't like discussing politics on here either, with the exception of repeatedly posting that politicians are bought and pay for, regardless of what side of the isle they are sitting in, but the reference to fascism in my post IS IN DIRECT RELATIONSHIP with what is happening in this economic crisis, not politics.

Look what is happening is Greece. There's no real difference between the Papademos government and the Greek junta of years past. Instead of tanks at syntagma square, now we have police in riot gear to enforce the actions of an illegitimate government (but one sponsored by Troika) against the will of the people. In both cases, the voice of the people has been silenced. It's not politics, IT'S ABOUT MONEY. There's still some meat of the bone (state owned assets) that needs to be handed over to the banks before Greece is left to her own devices. Papademos was parachuted in to achieve just that.

How about Italy. The ECB essentially decided to replace Berlusconi by suspending their purchases of Italian bonds in the secondary markets. Yields shot up over 10pc and Silvio was history (then the ECB started buying again to bring the yields down). Replaced by a totally unelected government, headed by a banker. Not a single person that makes up the Monti government was voted in office by the people. Monti was parachuted in to force austerity on the people, something Silvio balked at, to KEEP THE BONDHOLDERS WHOLE. Again, it's not politics, IT'S ABOUT MONEY.

I can go on with several other examples of how the political landscape has been dramatically changing removing power from the people DRIVEN BY FINANCIAL DECISIONS, not politics. And that's the very definition of fascism.
Report Al Dente January 13, 2012 12:20 AM GMT
Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power. - Benito Mussolini

I've been banging on about the road now taken, at least by the USA. The Police have been militarised since 9/11 and I now await the legislation that will give it draconian powers, together with the construction of mainland Guantamo clones.

Difficult to separate politics from finance nowadays.
Report melv January 13, 2012 5:57 AM GMT
I am a notoriuous lefty but I have always greatly admired small businesses. Infact I have tried many of my own (limited success, lacking tenacity) and am nurturing possibilites now. Based on my art skills. I totallay agree with your praises of;

"shear tenacity, street smarts and hard labour and all ALL PRODUCTIVE PEOPLE WHO CREATE WEALTH THROUGH THEIR LABOUR."

Its the lackeys of corporatism that I hate. Never thought it before but I may well be a socialist who likes certain types of capitalism.
Report charlatan January 14, 2012 10:17 PM GMT
nice idea but aint never gonna happen because if you didn't have to do that crappy job to keep a roof over your head how many would do it?

people seem similarly keen to work in america and the european countries which have far lower house prices and often much bigger homes.
Report Thin and Crispy January 15, 2012 3:21 PM GMT
Er.... so foreigners are pleased to work long hours in low pay tedious jobs even though they don't have to?
The greatest chunk of income in this country goes in keeping a roof over your head, it maybe food, healthcare or education in other countries but to get the masses to accept low pay, long hours in deadend jobs the cost of the basics in life must be high enough to motivate them to tolerate the crappy job.
Report TheInvestor2 January 15, 2012 11:37 PM GMT
Surely no Western European strictly has to work anyway.
Also in some wealthy countries like Holland and Germany housing is very cheap relative to the UK.

The price of basics like housing, food, travel etc. rises to soak up any increase of pay of low wage earners, but they aren't trapped as they would be in a poor country without a welfare system.
Report cush January 16, 2012 12:17 AM GMT
"Surely no Western European strictly has to work anyway".

How can you possibly post that, in a system where you are born free, but born into a monetary system where you are taxed until  death and then, even once you are dead?
Report charlatan January 16, 2012 9:52 PM GMT
because if you don't work the taxes become benefits.
Report charlatan January 16, 2012 9:54 PM GMT
most working class folks and many middle class folks will consume any extra income above and beyond the basics which you give them. they'll spend it on holidays, upgrading their cars and consumer crap.
Report TheInvestor2 January 16, 2012 10:50 PM GMT
yes, and they will keep working to pay for this crap in the absence of being forced to spend it all on real essentials.
Report Coachbuster January 17, 2012 5:26 PM GMT
wealth is a state of mind
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