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melv
14 Dec 11 17:45
Joined:
Date Joined: 19 Feb 06
| Topic/replies: 6,745 | Blogger: melv's blog
It is easy to create jobs; you can give millions of people a spade each and then get them to dig holes. The you can get them to fill em in; and repeat the process ad infinitum.

People then spend the money and this creates other jobs.

Actually its thinly disguised money printing and you will soon get inflation. But never mind that.

Reducing the deficit is very hard. Glad its not my job.


However; and this is the Elephant in the room; its not possible to reduce the deficit and create jobs.

Read my lips its not possible is it.

Posted on financials and politics coz I genuinely want some-one to prove I am wrong.

Or condemn all politicians of all stripes because non of them are admitting that there is an Elephant in the room. This is misleading the GBP and we should ‘ave em.
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Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 14, 2011 7:02 PM GMT
Isn't the idea to reduce the deficit by the process of creating jobs and hence increasing people's confidence  consumption levels and hence assist business recovery and hence generate increased tax revenues .
Btw I'm no economist, as you can probably tell.
Report wykhamist2 December 14, 2011 7:57 PM GMT
There is no point in giving people jobs on projects paid for with public money. It is a lot cheaper just to pay them enough to survive and tell them to stay at home. The difference between benefit money and what you would pay them to dig holes you might as well drop by helicopter to 'stimulate the economy' as people pick it up then spend it. As you say, it will not reduce the deicit and is inflationary.

You can only reduce the deficit by creating jobs which actually generate money. An example would be say to reopen a few coal mines then sell the coal to pay the employees and reduce the deficit.

If the coal or whatever is not economic to mine then you have to look further afield, eg send them off to Africa to mine diamonds or something which is economic.

I don't believe the Keynsian idea so much loved by Ed Balls would work now. It basically says that in a 'normal' recession you can blow some public money to keep things ticking over and stop too many businesses going bust. It doesn't apply now because the act of further increasing the deficit would cause the markets to force up govt bond yields and this would do more harm than good, forcing even more businesses to go broke. On top of that it would cause further negative equity in the housing market which in turn would have the banks begging for more bail-outs.

It is quite possible that there is literally no way we can reduce the deficit without the whole economy going into a death spin. If that is the case you either have to default or go for the hyperinflation option, which achieves the same thing. That's why I am only buying index-linked bonds and keeping gold.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 14, 2011 8:31 PM GMT
Wyk
I'm glad you left open the possibility of being wrong in your last para.
After all many esteemed economists ( laureates and all ) beg to differ with your point of view.
Pul Krugman would be an obvious, well known such economist with an entirely differnt point of view to the ( good and valid) ones you have expressed.
Report Menelaus December 14, 2011 8:58 PM GMT
Albert Eistein was reputed to have said once  "If I had an hour to save the world, I would spent 55 minutes defining the problem".

Define the problem. Where did British jobs go? Where did they disappear, and why?

Start there and work your way back to find the answer to melv's question. (HINT: globalization and free trade being good for the average Briton was a lie, and you can't build an economy strictly relying on generating paper wealth in the Financial sector)

As far as cutting the deficit goes, start with nationalizing the banks, utterly and completely, turn them into utilities servicing the organic economy as opposed to being a parasite sucking the life out of any organic growth and an endless drain on public finances. Then cut military spending and tell the Americans to fight their own wars of aggression and finish it off by telling Merkel that if she wants teutonic supremacy in Europe, then Germany should pay, not the UK tax payer. If you want to go a step further, change the entitlement programs and stop sending money in the mail to lazy, unproductive, abuse the system cnts that are a drain on all productive people and tell them to fend for themselves. (I would also add here, change the immigration policies but I'm sure I'll be quickly accused of being a racist so I'm going to leave that one alone). All these would be a good start.

P.S. melv, Keynes did indeed say "one person digs, the other person fills the hole" as a means of stimulating the economy but NOT when the government is running a massive deficit. Keynes advocated and assumed in his theories that the government would be running a surplus while times were good, not continuing to pile on debt like we did. It is this surplus that Keynes advocated spending in stimulating the economy. Big difference.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 14, 2011 9:54 PM GMT
I suppose you could sum up Menelaus' views as everything in moderation, including moderation.
That his points are well made, but too extreme to be socially useful.
For example, rather than nationalise banks, I would say just return to the previous times when there was a clear cut, legal difference between clearing and investment banks.
Leave the clever financial engineering to the latter, who should be required to finance such things with their private ( as in partners) capital, as they used to. That is a very appropriate and correct way to ensure that the risks they take are controlled and measured, because let's be honest, no bureaucrats or outsiders are ever going to fully comprehend, and thus be able to regulate, these risks.
On the question of benefits, Menelaus is talking in the typical fashion of those who have never been down on thedir luck, for no good reason of their own making. He is an elitist, who feels that all should or can be as fortunate or as successful as he apparently is, if they get off their butts and do a decent day of hard work.  A far too simplistic and unrealistic attitude to be of any real use.
Immigration. Not the root cause of any of our problems. Leave it there.
Military spending. I agree wholeheartedly with those expressed views.
German dominance. Being achieved more by good work place practices, than by any subsidisation from the UK taxpayer.
Report Menelaus December 14, 2011 10:11 PM GMT
I have no idea what you said, but may I please, please, please (and trust me that is a word I know by reputation only) STOP coming over my posts on this forum. I think your opinions would carry considerable more weight if you were posting on the "Specials" forum.
Report Whippet December 14, 2011 11:24 PM GMT
long term the only way unemployment is going is up, and there is absolutely no way this can be stopped, unless we flat out refuse to implement the technological advances we invent. Everything is becoming more efficient and less and less human interaction is required in huge swathes of industry. Doing things more efficiently will create a number of highly skilled jobs, but nowhere near enough to replace the more manual jobs that will inevitably be lost to automation. Some people will be able to retrain to work in these newly created jobs, but there will certainly not be enough to go around, and furthermore, there will be an underclass that won't have sufficient education to be able to work in these skilled jobs, and will thus be permanently left on the scrap heap.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 14, 2011 11:28 PM GMT
And Menelaus' solution ?.
Exterminate them all along with the old and the sick ?
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 14, 2011 11:34 PM GMT
Btw can anybody on here really respect the views of someone who ( not jokingly believe me ) refers to please as a word he only knows by reputation.
I really do think that perhaps Menelaus is one very sick, little puppy.
Thank god he is no position of power to influence things.
Please let me be right on this, if on nothing else.
Report Al Dente December 15, 2011 12:02 AM GMT
Can't agree with this Fine As; "Leave the clever financial engineering to the latter",(investment banks). They, particularly Goldman Sachs came up with this kind of clever stuff before and it was all for Goldman Sachs,no-one else.
answer - produce stuff that people want; they are producing ever increasing amount of food, and cut expenditure and raise taxes. Tough? Yes, but it is the only way.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 15, 2011 12:32 AM GMT
Al
Maybe you're right.
But GS and others have been responsible for many, many good innovations in the financial mkts.
But I think they and others have to pay the price personally if they get it wrong, as the expense of others less skilled or manipulative.
Accountability is the key issue here.
I feel that with the banks as is, it's heads they win, and tails they win.
Report Mrben December 15, 2011 12:53 AM GMT
In the interests of fairness

melly- post 14 dec 20.58

the only thing he has ever said on here that I 100% agree with.Love



ps. did I really just post this or is it a dream?Whoops
Report Al Dente December 15, 2011 1:30 AM GMT
@Fine As
Bit of a **** up in my previous reply for which I apologise - it was supposed to say: "Look across the Irish Sea for a solution for the UK, Ireland is producing an ever increasing amount of food, they produce stuff that people want, and cut expenditure and raise taxes."

GS was bailed out and always will be; that has been the problem,as you say "accountability is the key issue"; there is none for the Political and Financial elite who seem to have planned it thus by the latter seizing on the de-regulation brought in by the former for their mutual benefit. There are no benefits for anyone else unless you count endless cheap credit, which in truth keeps the nose to the grindstone, and then some.

The French will do anything for Merkel; their banks are in a parlous state; she is their, and the euro's only hope. Still kicking the can along the track though.
Report Menelaus December 15, 2011 8:32 AM GMT
@ Mrben  - are you feeling all right?

@ Whippet - automation has little to do with jobs vanishing in the UK. Wage arbitrage to maximize corporate profits has everything to do with it.

@ Al Dente - German banks are just as insolvent as the French ones, so no, she's not euro's "only hope"

@ FSHF -
Report Mrben December 15, 2011 9:27 AM GMT
feel the love mellyLove
Report Banwana December 15, 2011 10:46 AM GMT
Ah, Goldman Sachs. Tails they win FAFH, heads they win; but they also win before the toin is cossed, during the toss, who will toss it, they load one side of the coin, gamble on the lighter side not winning, sell this information to others although not for the recepients benefit, gamble on them getting it wrong and it goes on and on.
On a side note, does anybody think that DC's I'm out-a-here stance is because he already has something else agreed?
Report Al Dente December 15, 2011 12:13 PM GMT
@Menelaus. They are solvent now, will not be so when the PIIGS default. As I and everyone else says, can kicking by politicians in denial.
Report wykhamist2 December 15, 2011 1:57 PM GMT
Cameron has played this very cleverly. He knew that if he had joined the treaty then he would have had to have a referendum and that the public would have slung it out, and possibly removed us from the EU if it was a choice offered.

By giving two fingers to Merkozy he has made himself more popular with the public, and kept the eurosceptics at bay. We can now stay on the sidelines and watch while the whole thing unwinds. Then we can then broker some kind of deal amongst the ruins to give us the terms we would like from a new union, hopefully getting rid of such things as the CAP.
Report Menelaus December 15, 2011 3:10 PM GMT
I find the notion that Cameron actually said "it's not good for Britain, so I'm out-a-here" utterly laughable. Empty suit Cameron didn't leave, he was given no choice but to leave, he was booted out. Don't you think Merkel knew that it's impossible for Cameron to accept a position that potentially hurts his key owners/clients......THE UK/US BANKING CARTEL? Yet, she is insisted on it, leaving Cameron no choice but to walk out. Cameron spun this as a patriotic move and milking it for all it's worth capitalizing on the euroskeptic sentiment in the UK.

Merkel has had enough of the Americans and their puppet Cameron telling her "print, print, print". She's caught between a rock and a hard place. The Germans know that it's either allowing the ECB to print with reckless abandon (similar to the BoE and the FED), which presents significant political and constitutional issues for her in Germany, or Germany leaves the euro. There are no other options, there never were. And the US/UK pestering puts pressure on Merkel to make a decision at a time when she's hoping to buy some time to sort it out.

The clock is ticking and events are unwinding faster than anyone could imagine. Merkel needs to decide NOW. My guess, BOTH events are unavoidable. Greek default will be the trigger.
Report Menelaus December 15, 2011 3:23 PM GMT
I should have added, THERE IS REASON why the PSI haircut agreement for Greece hasn't be completed yet and appears to drag on in endless negotiations.

THIS in my opinion was the most important story of the day yesterday, which went largely overlooked:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-14/greek-creditor-committee-is-said-to-work-with-blackstone-group-law-firms.html
Report Menelaus December 15, 2011 4:32 PM GMT
Al Dente Joined: 07 Jan 08
Replies: 118 15 Dec 11 12:13 
@Menelaus. They are solvent now, will not be so when the PIIGS default. As I and everyone else says, can kicking by politicians in denial.


Didn't see your post until now.

NO, a big emphatic NO in fact. If they marked their assets to market on their balance sheets, they are insolvent NOW, not when the PIIGS default.
Report melv December 15, 2011 4:54 PM GMT
Politicians in denial.

They all believe some self serving; at the time dubiuos; now proved to be false wizz kid maths formulas promising that we could lend each other money for ever and live by swapping capuccins's. At the time they had no right to beive in this fools gold; many where cautioning against it. It was a mistake but a culpable mistake. They have not made up for it.

Now they are not in denial. They will have taken proper advice this time and they know you cannot have job creation and deficit reduction. They also know they cannot can kick their way out of it. The best that can be said is that they are desperately playing for time in the hope that something turns up.

The least they can do is be fkin honest. I know they are probably doing the Blair trick. Hypnotise yourself into believing your own lies. Then you can always say you are innocent.
force them to own up; force them to tell the truth.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 15, 2011 7:47 PM GMT
Geez what is  the next thing all you doomsayers will be telling us ?
There's no santa claus or something.
It will be interesting to revisit all this fear mongering in what 3, 6 , or 12 mths time ?
Or will you all still then be saying these sorts of things if the EU is still intact with a common currency ?
At least Menelaus has stuck his neck on the line wih a Dec 19 th forecast of a greek default.
Looks like he's sticking to that, in highlighting the " importance" of the Blackstone meeting.
I'm sorry I just don't believe that the options are either the ECB prints, or Germany has to leave the EU.
There are always middle roads to be found, if you look hard enough.
And they are sure as hell doing that at the moment.
Report Mrben December 16, 2011 2:31 AM GMT
The clock is ticking and events are unwinding faster than anyone could imagine. Merkel needs to decide NOW. My guess, BOTH events are unavoidable. Greek default will be the trigger.

melly if this does in fact occur- and I agree it will- what is the effect on the AUD?
Report polybot December 16, 2011 8:41 AM GMT
risk off environment will weaken the aud/usd in the interim,  I've already started selling spare usd at the recent upturns. May improve further but taking some off while the going is good.
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=NZD&view=1Y
Report Menelaus December 16, 2011 11:37 AM GMT
The USD continues to be the tallest dwarf in the room. It used to be "risk off" meant both USD and Gold UP. That correlation was broken (coordinated by central banks and quite intentionally actually- Bernanke won't make the same mistake as Volcker) at PRECISELY the same time the SNB announced a "ceiling" on the swiss franc. A massive bear raid ensued on gold since that time - under the cover of various events not the least of which was the MF Global debacle.......but I don't want to digress.

Now "risk off" means running to the USD/USTs which basically means all other boats sink, including the AUD, while the USD rises. In addition, the AUD also faces other significant head winds stemming from two places, the recent flow of indicators coming out of China signaling a slow down (don't look at the massaged centrally controlled released data, although that has been bad too of late, just keep track of petroleum distillates and electricity use in China - take the time to look where no else is looking) and your real estate bubble finally showing signs of a potential pop (you'd know more and better than me the details there).

Bernanke likes/tolerates a slow implosion of the euro for now as the strength of the USD knocks oil, gold and commodities down and helps hide the inflation havoc his printing presses cause. He needs to bring those down before the next round of printing and print he will again, he has no choice. I posted this before but I'd be very surprised if he doesn't announce more QE before the end of Q1 2012. In fact, I'm totally convinced that he is printing covertly and injecting liquidity in the US economy now - I was going to do a post on it and explain why and how I came to that conclusion but then decided not to as the interest in this stuff on here has waned.

Bernanke's biggest fear (I was surprised how explicitly it was stated in the last FOMC minutes) is an uncontrolled euro collapse. Then I think the USD again will gain, as will gold this time, but all hell will break lose in everything else. A number of scenarios could unfold from that point on in my opinion, none of them good. We're truly totally in uncharted waters here.

All in all, the AUD is still a short for now in my opinion, especially since I don't think we've seen the worse out of europe yet (which implies further USD strengthening), and China is definitely slowing. Polybot decided to take some profits off the table by selling the USD "while the going is good", which may be a good defensive move, but the "going is good" can counter intuitively run for a long time so I think he's a bit early (look at the JPY). Or at least until the next time Bernanke starts producing massive amounts of green colored paper out of thin air again.

Good luck navigating this madness. I will try to pull an "adieu" in 2012 like you did recently and post only on occasion - just not enough interesting discussions on here anymore - as a result I'm "winding down" my posting through the end of the year, it's not that I'm trying to ignore you or anyone else.
Report what do i do now? December 16, 2011 12:26 PM GMT
menelaus

Albert Eistein was reputed to have said once  "If I had an hour to save the world, I would spent 55 minutes defining the problem".

Define the problem. Where did British jobs go? Where did they disappear, and why?

Start there and work your way back to find the answer to melv's question. (HINT: globalization and free trade being good for the average Briton was a lie, and you can't build an economy strictly relying on generating paper wealth in the Financial sector)

As far as cutting the deficit goes, start with nationalizing the banks, utterly and completely, turn them into utilities servicing the organic economy as opposed to being a parasite sucking the life out of any organic growth and an endless drain on public finances. Then cut military spending and tell the Americans to fight their own wars of aggression and finish it off by telling Merkel that if she wants teutonic supremacy in Europe, then Germany should pay, not the UK tax payer. If you want to go a step further, change the entitlement programs and stop sending money in the mail to lazy, unproductive, abuse the system cnts that are a drain on all productive people and tell them to fend for themselves. (I would also add here, change the immigration policies but I'm sure I'll be quickly accused of being a racist so I'm going to leave that one alone). All these would be a good start.

P.S. melv, Keynes did indeed say "one person digs, the other person fills the hole" as a means of stimulating the economy but NOT when the government is running a massive deficit. Keynes advocated and assumed in his theories that the government would be running a surplus while times were good, not continuing to pile on debt like we did. It is this surplus that Keynes advocated spending in stimulating the economy. Big difference.

-----------

not quite post of they year because u didnt tackle the immigration issue. the labour govt policy for their 3 terms was to fill the country up. the population of this country is now nearly 70m. the country cannot cope. im not in any way political, because they are all as 5hite as each other, but in years to come, i do wonder how bliars time will be viewed.

i would have him tried for treason.
Report melv December 16, 2011 3:04 PM GMT
i would have him tried for treason.

The total absence of trust the their own electorate and complete disrespect for those who give them power; has been endemic in  all parties in UK politcs for as long as I can rememeber.

Because the Labour party should be the party of the working class and i am one of em I would be happy for Blair Brown and all their lackeys to be singled out first and  to suffer any punishment you want.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 16, 2011 7:20 PM GMT
So I read that Menelaus is going to take his leave from us.
He once posted that he thought that Warren Buffet would go down as one of the most discredited investor in history.
Perhaps it could be more accurately predicted that Menelaus will go down as one of the most discredited forum posters in history.
If all turns out reasonably well for the EU and the Euro, will he come  back and eat some humble pie ?.
If conversely "all hell does break loose " then I will readily admit that my faith in the current policy makers was sorely misplaced, and that my belief that there is always some sort of satisfactory ( if extremely hurtful ) solution was wrong.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 16, 2011 7:26 PM GMT
Btw I'm going out to buy some more investment property this weekend in fact.
Just as about the world is due to implode ?
How's that for stupidity or what ?
Time will tell.
Report TheInvestor2 December 18, 2011 10:27 PM GMT
Menelaus
When: 14 Dec 11 20:58

[...] globalization and free trade being good for the average Briton was a lie, [...]


Why do you believe that?
Report Menelaus December 19, 2011 11:54 PM GMT
Sorry, didn't spot this until now.

Multi-national corporations maximizing profits = globalization/free trade = wage arbitrage = jobs moving to low wage countries = unemployment in the UK (except in the financial sector of course since our corrupt governments bought into the myth that real goods producing jobs could be replaced by financial engineering jobs in the City and everyone will live happily ever after - the myth has been exposed, it's over and there are profound changes coming out way)

Pretty simple really.
Report Mrben December 20, 2011 1:34 AM GMT
melly- Im stunnedCrazy

now that your not ranting about hyperinflation you make incredible senseLove

your second post in a week I titally agree with.

WTF is going on????
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 20, 2011 2:35 AM GMT
Mr Ben
Maybe the non-occurrence of all out Greek default ( so far anyway) as forecasted by Menelaus as very likely to happen on or about the 19th of December has taken some of the wind out of his sails, or at least the overwhelming certainty out of his rhetoric ?
He could still be right though, if out just timing wise, which he will no doubt then claim is of no relevance for investment/trading purposes.
No doubt he will turn whatever happens into some sort of post mortem analysis in support of his general theory that the world is heading for a cliff, with no escape routes possible.
Report melv December 20, 2011 11:16 AM GMT
melly- Im stunned

now that your not ranting about hyperinflation you make incredible sense

your second post in a week I titally agree with.

WTF is going on????


People like simon Cowell and others say conflict competition and falling outs is what makes life interesting. But actually i love this consencus building. What surely in the end we are looking for
are interpretations of the world that stand up the best. Nice.

Froggy too.

He could still be right though, if out just timing wise,
Report melv December 20, 2011 11:17 AM GMT
PS I know its about Menelaus.
Report Menelaus December 20, 2011 2:03 PM GMT
benny, just as I beginning to think there's still some hope for you, you post something that sends you back to square one again.

Hyperinflation benny, is how this ENDS. If you think otherwise, it's because you still haven't grasped what this crisis is all about and what's really going on.
Report Menelaus December 20, 2011 2:11 PM GMT
And noooo, before someone asks, I'm not going to post a 10,000 word dissertation to prove my point. We've all had front row seats to this crisis since March 2008 (Bear Stearns collapse) and that's a looooong time ago. You either understand what's going on by now, or you don't.

You have to figure this one out on your own. All I can do, and have been consistently doing on this forum, is to point everyone in the right direction.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 20, 2011 8:52 PM GMT
There is a God after all.
Btw Benny, perhaps in retrospect Menelaus is the perfect purveyor of the hyperinflation/bubble theory.
After all, he is the personification of it in ego terms.
A pr!ck in a bubble ?.
Brings to mind all sorts of interesting eventualities.
Report Menelaus December 20, 2011 9:15 PM GMT
Take cover, another carpet bombing raid in progress. LaughSillyLaugh
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 20, 2011 9:41 PM GMT
Well you should know, you're certainly the bomber Harris of this forum.
Report melv December 23, 2011 6:58 AM GMT
Cowabunga, Hip hip hooray the recessions over! the Yanks have shot the Elephant. They have recovered, growth is now normal in the US.

Radio 4 virtually had ticker tape marching bands and cheer leaders out on its financials slot this morning.

And apparently this now puts us in a brilliant position. But not alas Europe which is still facked.

Has Christmas come early. Lets work backwords.

If Europe is fkd we are fkd. Or do  you think we will suddenly become China and flood the world with  a plethora of exports.

The Americans are achieving this by continuing to cut taxes and maintaining govt spending. I know I am o level economics but isn’t that Bollox-ese for print more money.

That’s OK because the dollar is the worlds reserve currency. If I was Chinese I would be saying. Whys that then? and why should our dirt poor slave labourers be toiling to keep the Yankee devils in their feather beds.

And why is it such good news for us? The radio 4 guy could barely contain his joy when he announced the UK could print as much money as it liked  and Europe cannot “hee hee,”

So my next question is. Can we really inflate ourselves out of these debts. That is the only way to shoot the Elephant isn’t it. Allow inflation, pay ourselves what we like reduce unemployment and inflate away all our debts. Simple eh?
Report Menelaus December 23, 2011 7:23 AM GMT
Cowabunga, Hip hip hooray the recessions over! the Yanks have shot the Elephant. They have recovered, growth is now normal in the US.

They are managing perceptions. Look passed the headlines to find the "true" numbers and the true state of their economy. The Elephant is alive and well and getting fatter.


The Americans are achieving this by continuing to cut taxes and maintaining govt spending. I know I am o level economics but isn’t that Bollox-ese for print more money


Yes, it is. But as long as their army makes sure that the world continues to trade OIL in USDs, as long as the banking cartel continues to make sure that the global financial system collapses in a blink of an eye without USDs, as long as merchantilist nations (China, Japan, Germany, and others) continue to be addicted to the American consumer, they will print, print, print and export green colored paper in exchange for real resources and labour......AND THERE'S NOT A DAMN THING ANYONE CAN DO IT ABOUT IT....in fact everyone seems to be screaming for more.


So my next question is. Can we really inflate ourselves out of these debts. That is the only way to shoot the Elephant isn’t it. Allow inflation, pay ourselves what we like reduce unemployment and inflate away all our debts. Simple eh?


You are missing the forest because of the trees. The Elephant and unemployment have nothing to do with it. Peak oil and peak debt have everything to do with it. There is not enough organic growth to pay the coupon, nor can one be created without cheap oil or a miracle. In this scenario, the current monetary system collapses....AND THERE'S NOT A DAMN THING ANYONE CAN DO ABOUT IT.
Report Menelaus December 23, 2011 7:24 AM GMT
Cowabunga, Hip hip hooray the recessions over! the Yanks have shot the Elephant. They have recovered, growth is now normal in the US.

They are managing perceptions. Look passed the headlines to find the "true" numbers and the true state of their economy. The Elephant is alive and well and getting fatter.


The Americans are achieving this by continuing to cut taxes and maintaining govt spending. I know I am o level economics but isn’t that Bollox-ese for print more money


Yes, it is. But as long as their army makes sure that the world continues to trade OIL in USDs, as long as the banking cartel continues to make sure that the global financial system collapses in a blink of an eye without USDs, as long as merchantilist nations (China, Japan, Germany, and others) continue to be addicted to the American consumer, they will print, print, print and export green colored paper in exchange for real resources and labour......AND THERE'S NOT A DAMN THING ANYONE CAN DO IT ABOUT IT....in fact everyone seems to be screaming for more.


So my next question is. Can we really inflate ourselves out of these debts. That is the only way to shoot the Elephant isn’t it. Allow inflation, pay ourselves what we like reduce unemployment and inflate away all our debts. Simple eh?


You are missing the forest because of the trees. The Elephant and unemployment have nothing to do with it. Peak oil and peak debt have everything to do with it. There is not enough organic growth to pay the coupon, nor can one be created without cheap oil or a miracle. In this scenario, the current monetary system collapses....AND THERE'S NOT A DAMN THING ANYONE CAN DO ABOUT IT.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR December 23, 2011 12:46 PM GMT
Maybe we could make a start by splintering that soap box Menelaus is standing on ?
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