YOU don't need to know

why is this a surprise? the stability of the banking system was at risk-imagine no functioning bank accounts from HBOS/Lloyds and RBS and the consequences for the general population. surprised it's taken this long to come out reall.y

Not everyone has a direct line to King's office like you Goose, so for some of us who still believe in free markets, secret bailouts do come as a surprise.

The markets are broken, the political system is broken, the economy is broken, habeas corpus is broken. We need this system to crash so we can start fresh again.

I don't know about you, but I'm tired of being lied to and manipulated and usurped by a system that is supposed to protect me.

there's been no free market in a long time.

i'd rather have secret loans than a collapsed system. i didn't know about it but it's no surprise.

DonWarro 24 Nov 14:51


there's been no free market in a long time.


Totally Agree !

there never was a free market!!!

Insiders rule.
Get used to it folks.
It ain't ever gonna change.

anyone been caught for insider trading of the back of the secret loans?

Menelaus

It cvertainly did not surpise me... Would you have prefered the banking system to collapse? The banks gave security in form of assetts /property. The money havs been paid back so what is the problem?

chisel - its a closed loop. the assets they use as security are largely debts other banks have with them etc, secured against debts with other banks again, and so on. what this dubai situation proves is that half of this so-called secuirty does not exist.

No problem, chisel.

According to your convoluted thinking lying, manipulating, obfuscating, breaking the law IS OKAY as long as it's done for the "greater good".

Don't worry chisel, the government will save you.

And just for the record, the answer is YES, I would have preferred that the banking system was allowed to collapse. If it's insolvent IT SHOULD BE ALLOWED to collapse, that's what healthy economies are built on chisel, not failed ponzi schemes. Hiding insolvency with secret bailouts, government "loans" and guarantees and bizzaro world accounting DOES NOT solve anything. It merely kicks the can just a little further down the road making things much worse when the final day of reckoning comes. And the can is getting heavier and heavier, chisel.

Are you prepared?

allowed to collapse in an orderly way more like M. I assume if you want to let banks go to the wall you ahve assets with intrinsic value all over the place, some cash under your mattress and plenty of tinned food and shotgun cartridges. you can't seriously believe letting the banks fail under the conditrions we saw in Q4 2008would have been a good thing.

sometimes you make great points and other times just silly points. you sound liek one of those conspiracy theorist keyboard warriors at times.

TBH Menelaus I really do not buy your line of argument. I agree things are not good, which is why I believe rates will be low for years and inflation will not be a problem for some time...

No one said getting out of this mess would be easy.

believe rates will be low for years and inflation will not be a problem for some time

keep telling yourself that chis :)

Goose, the banks should have been allowed to fail a la Sweden model. The shareholders get wiped out, the bondholders get wiped out, management gets replaced, those responsible get prosecuted to the full extend of the law (unless of course you think this is a natural disaster and no one is responsible). The government steps in and guarantees granny's deposits.

Even after all the bailouts, Goose, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. The hole to plug is too big even for CB's to print their way out of. Kicking the can down the road is getting more difficult with every passing day. It will be a lot worse than it could have been when they give it that final kick and all they manage is to break their toes.

^^^ i agree.

the regulatory framework needs to change and it is doing so although i agree we are potentially building already for the future. i think one of the primary risk factors has been reduced however: leverage. we are not using crap to buy more crap by the same extent any more.

"we are not using crap to buy more crap by the same extent any more."

you are kidding, right?

If it wasn't for the FED knowing and willingly buying crap this whole house of cards comes down here and now. The problem is the crap is still there, just as a different off balance sheet entry. They have run out of answers, Goose. When all you have is a hammer (printing press) everything looks like a nail.

yep. imo the fed will shortly collapse, or at least be brought down. it will take us down with it.

disagree with you both. i am long USD.

You were long USD since March, how's that working out for you?

yeh i can see why goose. they will certainly try the normal trick, but i just dont think the fed will be able to pull it out of the bag this time. china is hot on their case over repayment of all this fraudulent gold they sent them. it's changed the game because not only do they need to prop up the system, they've got to find enough fools to buy gold from in excahnge for their worthless paper carp in order to pay china. and the big boys are now wise to their game.

we'll see anyway :)

goose - u betting on a carry trade unwind or something similar?

basically yeah-reprice in assets. dollar is still the only currency-look at the reaction yesterday/today; everyone still clammers for it when there's a hint of stress.

M-turned it into a vol trade. never was a principle position. i trade currencies as an aside ratehr than anything else.

if it bounces it will only be temporary imo. i cannot see how inflation can possibly be kept under control now

I'm glad someone feels they needed to know.


Lloyds shareholders to sue over HBOS non-disclosure
The Chancellor and the Governor of the Bank of England are facing legal action for allegedly failing to disclose the extent of taxpayer support for HBOS last year.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/6672692/Lloyds-shareholders-to-sue-over-HBOS-non-disclosure.html