Tennis
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I would say it's between S williams and Graf, or navratilova ?
interesting to see that williams as a 17 year old beat a 29 year old Graf in Indian wells final
interesting to see that williams as a 17 year old beat a 29 year old Graf in Indian wells final
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greatest career and greatest player are two different things
Serena would beat any woman that ever played imo but has had a chequered career |
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agreed,
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Nobody has ever pulled off laser guided groundstrokes on both sides like Daniela
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I don't really care about GOATs
totally agree if Serena had wanted she could have had 25 to 30 slams - if that was her ambition and I'm certain that she would beat any woman really in the history of the game, I've seen lots claim Chris Evert as GOAT but Serena would blast her to pieces |
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good question. had a similar conversation with a friend in the pub earlier.
Willaims, Graf, Navratilova, Evert mentioned. |
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not sure anyone can match Serena and Graf for pure power/serve
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Graf was the closest the tour has had to a female Federer.
The way she carried herself when she came back against Sabatini, that composure and inward focus, so reminiscent of Federer coming back against Roddick. The air of absolute certainty that, regardless of scoreline, there was only going to be one winner. |
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justine henin
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I am not sure that many. Because I reckon if you'd truly seen her go full out in her full career like most players would you wouldn't see the Serena you see now. It's match play which is a defining factor in player decline imo alongside age. It's why you see guys like Haas playing great tennis at 35. Serena's legs are really young for a 31 year old, her motivation would probably be nowhere near as high as it is too if she already had 20 odd majors.
What slightly frustrates me about Serena doing that is a lot of people like to use it against womens tennis' era as a whole now. They say she has no competition. But the reality is her competition all come about when Serena was at her absolute worst. Henin has a reputation now as someone who always played Serena tough, the reality is I don't think she would have got anywhere near the Serena you see now off of clay. All her wins came either in 2007 when Serena was in terrible shape and didn't care about tennis, or were on clay, again when Serena didn't really give a f**k about clay either (though I do think Henin would still have a good chance on clay). There is supporting evidence for this, but people always choose to ignore it because of nostalgia. Eg. Sharapova got her only wins during this period, now can't get anywhere near Serena. Other players like Jankovic, Dementieva played her close. |
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Evert is an example of exactly why this is a tough discussion. Evert played a game that was perfect for that era of tennis, that just simply wouldn't compute into this era of tennis though, it just wouldn't happen.
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I imagine Evert would be weak in all aspects versus Serena now
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its all right saying serena would blast anyone off court but with the rackets they used years ago this would not have been fully possible id say.
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she woluld be near serena for sure ,justine ,why not
 serena is dominating some elements her opponents cant take on,like serve,but declined in other elements like speed reaction movement evetyone pissing that much as she is on quite high now last couple of months, but won us open by small margin, could had as well lost lost oz open |
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Its gotta be Serena for me.
(1)Don't forget Steff probably got at least 4 grand slams she wouldn't have other wise have won due to Monica Seles getting stabbed. (2)Also Venus took at least 3 from Serena (beat her in 2 finals), so having an almost equally talented sister nicking grand slams off you obviously wasn't something Steffi had to have hold her legacy back. (3)Unlucky injuries probably cost Serena maybe 3 more slams. (4)Serena never really seemed motivated by her GOAT legacy or number of slams until last year/this year Even with the above reasons affecting their Grand Slam totals Serena will probably end up with close to or maybe even more slams than Steffi by the time she retires. |
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Evert would be weak against everyone from nowadays if you just translated games across. It's why comparing era's doesn't really work. Because players are playing what that works in that era, the game has evolved, it simply was impossible to play the sort of tennis you can now with the rackets of old.
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is it fair to say Navratilova would be "weak" now aswell. maybe an A.Radwanska?
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Margaret Court
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Maureen Connolly won 9 slams 1951-1954 before career had to end at 19
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i can only speak from around 97 onwards, so no idea really about evert or navratilova but what i do know is, I've not sen any women in the last 15 years better than s williams, shame she's missed 11 slams since her first one and what's more, I don't think there is a single player of any note that has a better h2h v her - although the answer to the question is alot deeper than that, it's hard to compare eras, i think 3 of them were played on grass?
Also, wasn't there a time i hear when the aussie open was largely overlooked by players who skipped it because it was too close to xmas, little prize money etc, but graff always went and won 5? maybe thats was before idk |
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henin in her short career won same amount of slams as serena, year younger turned pro 4 yrs later than serena. if someone using argument serena wasted her time. well same argument here. henin was best player in her era where serena venus clisters etc girls was playing . also hingins was great player
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Oh yes no player has truly dominated the opposition for such a long period like Serena has. It's a shame in retrospect that Serena lost interest in tennis though for long periods. She really should have an unequivocal hold on this mythical title.
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aga is next aga
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Henin wasn't really the best player in her era though.
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Arantxa Sanchez Vicario
Mary Joe Fernandez Paola Suarez the only 3 top 10ers in that list with winning records over Serena, and the last 2 played her once |
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I think Serena said the 1998 loss to ASV at FO was one of the defeats she was most disappointed about in her career
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Henin head to head vs both Williams is still heavy negative and that takes into account as said she played literally the worst Serena that ever played.
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kimmy was class. i miss her
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8-6 Serena vs Justine
5-1 HC 1-4 CC 1-1 Grass 1-0 Carpet |
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did you know Hingis was a slamless no.1
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So was Clijsters.
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also Davenport, but not in the sense Woz, Safina and the like were of course
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Most these players your mentioning ;[p weren't really an "era". They dominated for a couple of years. They weren't like Serena, Fed, Nadal winning over a long period.
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It can't be Henin because she couldn't get the job done on grass
It can't be Martina because she was utterly owned in her own era by Steffi, and only won one slam after 1987 (when Steffi had been KO'd by Garrison) Has to be between Graf and Williams |
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Yes I meant. if Serena had had GOAT status through maximum GS titles as her life ambition from before she went on the tour, she probably could have won 2 or 3 calendar slams plus another 2 or 3 slams every year
25 was easily achievable but that wasn't her objective if she had Masha's absolute desperate need and desire to win she probably would have done that not really worth worrying about, the womens game has changed so much in every decade they are not comparable |