I am f'ked!

why?

Dear customer,

We regret to inform you that from Friday 9 November we will be unable to continue offering a betting exchange in Germany. This is due to current uncertainty as to the application of a Federal law that imposes a 5% tax on stakes which would make it impractical for a betting exchange to operate. The exchange product will therefore be unavailable to customers whose country of residence is Germany but www.betfair.com will remain available for other products. Betfair will continue to engage with the relevant tax authorities to seek clarification on interpretation of the law and its applicability to exchanges.

What does this mean for our German resident customers?

Between 8am and 10am GMT (9am – 11am local German time) on Friday 9 November customers whose place of residence is in Germany will become unable to place bets (back or lay) via the exchange. This includes bet placement via the mobile platform and third party applications. If you are a German resident and you hold positions on exchange markets then we encourage you to trade out as a matter of urgency. All other products like poker, casino and non exchange fixed odds sports betting will remain available without restrictions.

You will still have unrestricted access to your account and your deposits are safe. Withdrawals and deposits to and from your account can be made as usual.

Already placed long term exchange bets (e.g. German football champions 12/13) will be settled in the normal way once the result is known. All open unmatched bets will be cancelled between 8am and 10am GMT (9am – 11am local German time) Friday 9 November 2012 and any associated funds will be refunded to your wallets.

To gain access to the fixed odds markets, please ensure that you are using the new version of the Betfair site. Please click this link to navigate to the new site and choose it as your default version.

If you have any further questions please refer to: Frequently Asked Questions

Alternatively our helpdesk will be pleased to assist you. We’d like to ask for your patience when contacting them as they are expecting to receive a high volume of enquiries in the first few days. The best way to contact them is via email to deutsch@betfair.com.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Best regards

Betfair Service Team

Phew.. thankfully the German poker players are still active. Donks!

Have they given you just 2 days notice?? or did you receive this email some time ago?

no...mail came just minutes before my post here

that's a bit of a shocker! is/was this your full time job?

but sports bet's will still avaliable, did u read well?

mugs

mesmerised     07 Nov 12 08:30 
Betfair Group plc
7 November 2012

UPDATE ON GERMANY

As previously indicated, in July 2012 Germany introduced a law that applies a 5% tax on stakes on sports betting in the country. A tax at this rate, if applicable, would make Betfair's current exchange model unviable. Following detailed opinions provided by its legal and tax advisors, Betfair believes that, in regard to bets placed on its exchange, it is not an organiser of sports betting under the tax law and is not, therefore, liable for the tax.

Betfair has been working with the relevant tax authorities to seek clarification on interpretation of the law and its applicability to exchanges. The company is disappointed, however, that to date the tax authorities have not been able to agree to an interpretation of the law that would allow Betfair to continue to offer the exchange product. Consequently, Betfair has decided to withdraw its exchange product from the German market.

Following this decision, on-going contribution from Germany is expected to be de minimis and Betfair is reviewing its operations in this market. In FY12, approximately 4% of Core Betfair revenue came from Germany and this revenue delivered a contribution of approximately £6 million before the allocation of central costs.

The company believes that it has fulfilled all of its obligations under German law, including the filing of necessary tax returns. Discussions are continuing with tax authorities regarding the potential tax liability, if any, arising from bets placed on its exchange since the law came into effect.

from General Betting forum

yeah it kind of was tsango.
but no exchange markets? why should i bet with this odds without tradeing??

open credit card or debit card in other betfair-friendly country

and then use proxies or socks-servers, or dedicated servers to access betfair.

better than nothing...

he pnly cant trade, he's exagerating...

Nov 7, 2012 -- 12:29PM, annibal wrote:

he pnly cant trade, he's exagerating...

isn't betfair without the exchange i.e trading, make it just like any other bookie. i.e. crap?

can you access the purple place dirk?

i thought about that....i have no account yet....maybe i try it

liquidity might be low on some markets but better than nothing.
though can't see how purple can offer it in germany and betfair can't

Nov 7, 2012 -- 12:39PM, tsango wrote:

liquidity might be low on some markets but better than nothing.though can't see how purple can offer it in germany and betfair can't

looks like someone don't care a lot about taxes :)

ok i wrote betfair a mail....i think there is a way for me to use betfair further then friday

not very wise dirkules.

will be interesting how this affects liquidity in German soccer markets

just got that info:
- No german ip's will be banned
- only the adress is banned...that means if you can bet from germany (with german ip) and just need another adress

are there countries that are excluded from betfair, but welcome at betd*q?

Nov 7, 2012 -- 12:58PM, Dirkules wrote:

just got that info:- No german ip's will be banned- only the adress is banned...that means if you can bet from germany (with german ip) and just need another adress

what address? you mean postal address?
also they are not banning german customers anyway, they are just stopping them from using the exchange.

something they would like to do with every customer.

yes postal adress.

Uncool. A whole 36 hours warning too. Awesome!

that's even more easy then

there should be some services that provice forwarding of mail in europe

card from that country + other address and you won't even need proxy or socks-servers

maybe my new businessplan is to give people a service like that :D

Nov 7, 2012 -- 1:21PM, jin_kazz wrote:

that's even more easy thenthere should be some services that provice forwarding of mail in europecard from that country + other address and you won't even need proxy or socks-servers

sounds too easy tbh unless betfair doesn't 'really' want german exchange players to leave

have a look at today's share price tsango, and i think you'll find your answer.

Nov 7, 2012 -- 12:39PM, tsango wrote:

liquidity might be low on some markets but better than nothing.though can't see how purple can offer it in germany and betfair can't

They offer Australian markets without an Australian wallet dont they?

**** has any markets at all?

look up 'list of betting exchanges' on Wikipedia. There are others. Check their rules.

for my German friends here. Was this expected at all or did it come out of nowhere?

from betfair side it came out of nowhere....i knew from other bookies that they take that 5% fee....but bet365 for example does not take it and if you ask them why they say because they have a UK license.....and i thought betfair has that too

i dont understnd this....

from this friday, german residents cant bet on exchange odds? plz help

yep that is correct

what if just change the address to another country?

I suppose BF will verify a new adress?

they never verified my friend's address

It seems that we will miss some here

When I was last week in Dubai it was also restricted but bot if you use Betting Asistant

Tips:move to Split,i am there now 18c and no restrict at al

swebih - they restricted ur ip in dubai?

bot should be not,will this be end for Betfair at the end?

betfire 07 Nov 12 17:47
swebih - they restricted ur ip in dubai?

you can not log in on betfair.com but you can log on with app betting asistant as i have via comp or phon

i had no problem i februar and now end of october

Dirkules,

Betfair's software detects which country you are in.

I suggest you use a proxy to get around the problem. Just need to use a UK server.

Go to Vpntraffic.com - it costs $5 a month or $35 a year.

They know which country he is from... proxy has nothing to do with it.

In any case this is worrying, eventually nothing will be left except UK. Spain is gone right?

@StevoDevo

looks like you didn't understand the problem... has nothing to do with the IP/server/country you are in...

So Germans cant bet on betfair? That's not how it works... betfair is not forbidden to Germans, it is forbidden IN Germany. Germans can get a VPN based on UK and keep betting. A lot of Spanish pros have done that and some moved to UK... but Spannish people can use betfair, just not on Spain.

germans can be at betfair. but you can not bet in the exchange if your post adress is german. it has NOTHING to do with IP adress.

oh I see... germans residents cant use betfair

right

maybe i move over to luxembourg....problem solved :D

Just simply change the country, BF will not verify it.

don't know about that

it's risky

there are a whole load of countries in the EU who no longer allow betfair who will eventually have to when the EU gets around to reviewing it.

it's so clearly against some of the founding principles of the single market, and almost certainly down to aggressive lobbying from the incumbents.

the german case is a little different, as betfair could continue to operate there, however one counter argument could be that by imposing such a taxation they are effectively giving protection to other operators so that would get thrown out too.

That's what I used to think DStyle but there has been nothing ( not that I know of anyhow ) done about it.  Do you really think that for example betfair will get back into France some day?  I just can't see it but hope you are right

Italy seems close to strike a deal with betfair

its a relief for the germans that they are still allowed to use betfair-casino!

when the EU get around to reviewing it, they will almost certainly make a decision on exchanges, which is unlikely (given all the precedents) to justify discriminatory regulation.

so yes, eventually, france will be told that it can't deny an operator a license on the basis that they operate an exchange so long as they comply with the taxation.

Hopefully mate

i don't see how the german rule is protectionist to german bookies if they have to charge 5% on stakes as well, exchanges are permitted and treated the same as bookies, so I don't see why the EU would intervene on that ground. It is different if they are excluding exchanges where the real reason is to protect the local bookies. It is like the German Beer purity Laws case where Germany banned any beer product with ingredients other than barley, hops, yeast & malt from being called 'Bier'. That was shot down by the EU Courts as most foreign beers didn't comply and almost all German beers did. The law had the effect of protecting local beer manufacturers and made it harder for products from other EU states to break into the German market.

However, it could be argued (at EU level, the Germans have obviously made their decision already) that by taxing stakes as opposed to winnings it makes trading impractical and therefore has a discriminatory effect, assuming the tax is applied to both back and lay stakes and there are no local exchanges in Germany. But other states have applied taxes on stakes, so I'm not sure if that argument would hold up. It really is something that Betfair should lobby for at EU level.

I don't really know about all this IP stuff and what works. But for what it's worth, if I use the official BF app on my iphone I have to turn on my location settings but if i use the ibetmate app it works if they are switched off? As you said tho, it's really down to your registered address and if that is in Germany they will restrict you.

don't worry there are many ways of getting around it, use a proxy server is cheap, or if you make loads of money you could set one of these bad boys up yourself and start targeting german traders like yourself for montly subscriptions,
http://www.betangel.com/vps/

virtual private server

become a UK resident and move to the UK. You're an addict, you can't live without this.

We're full up.

interesting thread ,i feel for all the betfairians that are based in these countries that are being restricted , its obviously going to effect liquidity in certain markets ... hopefully UK residents are OK for the long term

EU Weighs Money-Laundering Curbs in Online Gambling Action Plan

The European Union may toughen safeguards against money laundering through online betting sites and promote hotlines against match fixing as part of a push to boost protection of gamblers and counter fraud.

The European Commission will also speed up probes into whether national restrictions on online gambling firms are legal in a bid to clarify market-access rules for the industry, according to an EU official.

The measures will be included in an action plan for the online gaming and betting industry to be published tomorrow by Michel Barnier, the EU’s financial services chief, said the official, who asked not to be identified because the plans aren’t yet public.

The EU’s top court in recent years has examined a series of cases brought by betting companies including Bwin.Party digital entertainment Plc (BPTY), Ladbrokes Plc (LAD) and Betfair Ltd. (BET) over whether it is legal for state monopolies to block them from operating freely across the 27-nation region. Online gambling firms have also called on the EU to take action against what they say are unjustified national restrictions on cross-border gambling.

Since 2006, the Brussels-based commission has probed whether national rules in states such as Germany, France and Italy comply with EU laws. Many investigations are ongoing.

Market Access

The Brussels-based commission has received complaints about market-access curbs in 20 EU nations, the official said.

Nations tend to justify the curbs on the basis that they are needed to protect citizens from gambling addiction and to prevent crime.

Barnier has said that any moves at EU level to remove market barriers mustn’t harm these consumer protection and law enforcement objectives.

The commission has considered and rejected proposing legislation to clarify competition rules for the industry, the official said.

On money laundering, the commission will weigh whether to extend legislation for casinos to online gaming firms, the official said.

The law sets out identity checks and other monitoring that gaming companies must carry out on their customers. It also requires casinos to report suspicious activities to the authorities.

From Bloomberg

What's funny: If the language is German, the In-Play Tab is gone, back to English, it's back.

Use a blackberry, protected server, Ive used it in the US many times and betfair is definitely banned there. (The app not the website)

have the same problem. don't know what to do!

Shocking no wonder there's less and less money floating.  The fair has really gone to the dogs 
Dated site useless app. More and more rules and charges even the forums like a fuc king boot camp now
Beginning of the end

sneer all you want mr Pro but it's fairly easy too make good money here without the unintelligent slanderous ramp
but yes banning our German fiends is indeed the beginning of the end. dunno know who sucks more Angela or Bf?

German fiends?

betf air did it

11AM, it's done

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *crumbles to ashes like vampire*

No Downfall (Untergang) parody videos about this yet?

Doesnt stop them posting on here though does it?

this is the best betting forum I know and I will continue using it, even if have to place my bets illegaly around the corner through some turkish guy

turkey can help you for sure.

i offer a solution for german costumers, just pn.

:)

i have a solution....so no problems here for me

Did you buy English account?

There is a solution to most things in life..

I will try if it works with suedisch account in Frankfurt when I am on da way back to suedene.

Shouldn't be a problem swebih. Access to Betfair itself isn't blocked from Germany, they only blocked the exchange (i.e backing & laying) for customers with a German address.

i can offer a solution for a few, pn

working for me in DE  fking flughansa,missed my flight :(

Complaint over new Greek gambling law
Article | October 4, 2011 - 12:19pm

The Remote Gambling Association (RGA) has lodged a complaint with the European Commission regarding the legality of new gambling legislation in Greece.

If allowed to stand, the legislation will effectively provide OPAP, the largest gambling association in Greece, a favourable position in terms of taxation.

The Greek government currently owns 34% of OPAP, which is currently the only gambling organisation allowed to offer sports betting and lottery products to Greek consumers.

The new law requires all online gambling organisations to pay a 30% gross profit tax on gambling products, something that OPAP would be exempt from, as it is an offline organisation. This puts Greek taxation on online gambling much higher than many other countries; only Spain's 25% taxation laws come close.

The law also requires online associations to impose a 10% withholding tax on all of their customers winnings, but OPAP's consumers are only taxed if their winnings are over €100.

    The RGA's case revolves around the Greek government's inability to objectively justify the new tax, along with the fact that most European online gambling sites impose a lower tax than their offline counterparts. “Remote operators wish to obtain licences in Greece and to continue to offer Greek consumers competitive and well-regulated products,” Clive Hawkswood, Chief Executive of the RGA, said. “However the current unjustified fiscal favouritism being afforded to OPAP makes this extremely difficult and we urge the European Commission to investigate the new legislation for being in breach of State aid rules.”

Hawskwood also stressed that the RGA was not trying to suggest equal taxation for both gambling mediums, just that the new tax requirements be justified by the proper authorities.

“We are fully aware of the fiscal pressures on the Greek authorities at present, but they do not justify the imposition of anti-competitive tax provisions which benefit the existing monopoly gambling provider over private online operators soon to be licensed in Greece”, Hawswood went on to say. “Not only does such action not conform with EU State aid rules, but if implemented, it will have a damaging impact on the private sector and associated growth and employment opportunities, as well as curbing competition and consumer choice.”

Ist Merkel schuld weißt du was???

Weil was in Deutschland gemacht wird kommt sicher bald nach Österreich