Tom Read Wilson's CAMPervan to King or Queen of The Jungle

Nov 25, 2025 -- 10:48PM, Henry VIII wrote:

george take heed for

We should try to keep hatred and bullying off this forum. I don't believe in the bible myself but as a third of the world do it's arrogant to try and cancel it, or vilify those who believe in it.

Look up Evelyn Beatrice Hall's famous phrase. It's the bases of Western Democracy.

Anyway back to IAC - I have dumped Tom. He would have to step up to win now, possible of course.

* basis

Actually what I said applies to Tim as well, pretty hateful now I've read it. We should all have a group hug.

That's laughable Henry.  You'll forgive me, many thanks. Look up what started it again

Fairly typical that you didn't even have a clue what you were talking about before you waded in

I. Getting put to death too, I'm sure when I was younger I cursed my parents out!

It's rather odd that we've had this argument emerge now - not exactly the first gay contestant in reality tv is it? Eurovision has been around a long time....not to mention the other shows (Dowling, Rylan, Clary...etc etc...) I think we as specials people should be the very last to be homophobic at all...

I don't get involved in attacking a poster personally - but yes Tim, you should really get with the century we live in at least, in particular as a long time specials punter!

Nov 26, 2025 -- 6:57PM, GeorgeBrush wrote:

Fairly typical that you didn't even have a clue what you were talking about before you waded in

Well you could say that Tim's quote wasn't personal but the attacks on him were. But anyway it's best forgotten.

All involved in this have been 'forum friends' for 15?-18? years. During that time, we've had the odd disagreements about Politics; nothing too serious, we each knew where the others stood and we moved on. Likewise, I have no problems with, or interest in, the religious views of forumites; all that matters is 'are their posts informative, funny, whatever?' Seems some of you don't feel the same way, don't want to have (even heated) discussions and then get back to the more serious business, gambling, with nobody having taken offense. Which is a shame. If, so offended by my religious views, you don't see this as 'chat, argue, forget about it, move on' ok, but with no offense taken, no issues with any of you, that's where I am

I'm sure you'd be delighted to forget it henners

My gut reaction was against the way the forum was going and that was right. Good people leave forums if the forum gets sectarian and/or off topic.

Someone's started laying Tom big time.

Tom not getting enough of the edit to win many over, the drift feels correct.

Agreed, I've bailed tonight

I have no problems with, or interest in, the religious views of forumites;

Of course you do have problems with, or interest in....
it was you who threw leviticus into this thread.

You thought you could throw in a bit of religious book club based homophobia and garner some social media 'likes'

There's some of the mythical "betfair smart minds" ITT, and you've outed yourself and reminded everyone, you're not one of them.

10 years of stalking and trolling me, you remain as clueless as ever!

I quoted Leviticus in response to a question I was asked. It reflected my views, not those of forumites, as 'I have no problems with, or interest in, the religious views of forumites'. So, you're wrong on Count No.1

You think I was expecting likes from a leftie forum when I quote Leviticus? CHORTLE! That makes you 0-2

20 years at Specials, every single year being a winning year, added to me being this forum's first (original and best!) 'Forumite Of The Year'. 0-3, game over.

Can I just clarify something tim. Does Leviticus 20;13, fully represent your views on homosexuality?

As an old hippie, my natural instinct is to 'live and let live'; you do your thing, I do mine, you leave me alone, I leave you alone, everybody's happy. Which includes the freedom to have a hairy biker ramming his front fork up your exhaust pipe.
But God says it's a sin. My 'live and let live' ties in nicely in with your 'Don't judge others' quote, leaving me not giving a monkey's what you do, while believing it's a sin, which God will be the judge of. We're all sinners, we'll all have to be judged

Would the real creator(s) be so petty, so human, so vindictive? Your god is not the real thing, it's a grotesque joke.

But, as I said before, emotion is not for this place. Tim's views are a good test for bettors.

Even many Christians no longer take such old testament stuff as seriously - some who work in the church are actually gay of course!

Live and let live lol

I don't think you need moan about being trolled tim, when you advocate the killng of gay people.

Strange, how can you sit through donkeys years of rtv and not at least begrudgingly tolerate gay people?

Indeed. It's laughable to suggest your instinct is to live and let live, tim.

You referenced a passage from the old testament that calls for gay men to be killed. That's the antithesis of live and let live. You later posted that the said passage reflected your views

Such hateful comments, about any group, have no place on any forum where I still have control over who is a member. So I've banned you

This thread has had a diversion worthy of Shakespeare. But what’s done is done [“what’s done is done” Macbeth].

The main Tom backer thinks his backs are giving layers excellent value. After starting off a backer I then got him very red, my only huge red, which I’m now reducing.

roll up, roll up

He did go fave in running on the Saturday night, but it's been wall to wall Aitch and Ginge since then.  He never got to do a solo trial as a result of the A+G show dynamic which was a big blow, and he has been the chief victim of that narrative as he would have been getting a lot of air time without it.  Still a fair few nice cameos and he is one of 4 that have a realistic chance for me and I have profit on all of them.  Some very big reds on the rags, but they have NFC imo.  It is going to be very difficult to beat the two main characters when the show has been built around them, and prolly one of the biggest if not the biggest regional votes in RTV history.  "Manchester" being plugged incessantly.  I think neither would beat Lisa or Tom if they didn't come in tandem, but they do.

It does feel given the trials that this rivalry was planned all along, and that the purpose of the plan was to attract a younger audience to ITV.  There was an article in the Daily Mirror on Monday I think, saying advertisers weren't attracting the white Northern working class, who imo are being disenfranchised and ignored by political parties and the media.  You'll never get a young white working class comedian pushed on BGT unless they have a disability for example.  Hence the rise of Reform.  Johnny Vegas, Peter Kay and John Bishop are all in their 50s.  Cannon and Ball, Les Dawson and others all deceased.

There was an article in the Daily Mirror on Monday I think, saying advertisers weren't attracting the white Northern working class.... This was in relation to there being a bidding war for Ginge.

What's notable I feel is that they are both unashamedly unfiltered. I'm not so sure it's about their race, and working class covers an awful lot, an obsolete term really. I am probably considered working class but push buttons for a living. My Dad was actual working class. Making your money from streaming all day and making yt content isn't really working class, but it certainly isn't university/latte class. Whilst being unfiltered, they also both have an instinct/feel for the game. For me, Ginge is the more authentic out of the two.

My opinion, Tom can be funny, has his moments but is the opposite, extremely inauthentic. As if he is playing a role. Perhaps that can change.

I don't think Tom's inauthentic, he speaks how he wants to, and if it wasn't the voice of his parents (unlikely to be) it is his voice now. He wants to project himself gay, educated, artistic, musical, and if you've spoken a certain way exclusively for a period of time it's what your muscle memory naturally turns to when you speak.

Yes it's a projection. Not a winning formula on this show in my view. I mentioned my interpretation as it's a contrast to the fav, and it's the Tom train after all. He was a late entrant obviously and as I say, it can change.

Yes, his persona gives him the potential, but not realised.

Tom projects himself as incredibly posh, this is the difficult bit for the audience. They are well used to people being gay, not so much with that posh affectation

He makes you sound like a council estate escapee henners

Yes, well, it's a different audience but for example Clary was one of the biggest certainties in reality tv before the event had even started. Tom's bedroom tendencies are not materially relevant to the voting audience or me. It might be just bad luck but it comes across like he is exaggerating deliberately for affect. Posh was posh, but came across as nonchalantly authentic. You could sit down and have a big mac with her, but Tom would be concerned about the provenance of the bœuf.

Maybe I am George.

You've heard me but everybody sounds posh next to someone north of Watford, especially a Geordie.

There's a similarity with someone like Dom Joly IMO (though not being gay) - the poshness angle didn't work with him either I think, something about being a bit 'looking down' on others, even if it's only implied rather than real.

Your average mum going to Iceland isn't going to be a fan of that I'm guessing. But a lad speaking Northern, or with tattoos, far more palatable for this audience.

True, and in truth I like northern accents and am not too fussed on some of the accents where I'm from and currently live - London.

Your average mum going to Iceland isn't going to be a fan of that I'm guessing. But a lad speaking Northern, or with tattoos, far more palatable for this audience.

I disagree with that.  It's better to be clean cut than have tattoos. You have David Emmanuele, Georgia Toffolo, Carol Thatcher and Paul Burrell all doing very well.  Aitch isn't a natural for this audience at all, but he's been a brilliant camp mate, clearly deserves it more than anyone and been a better camp mate than Ginge, who is a much more palatable fit.  That's what makes it so hard to call between the two

Not that it's definitely between the two

Yeh, I was basically comparing the ginge/aitch combo vs Tom in the voters eyes, though wouldn't disagree Ginge will beat Aitch.

I'm on the fence re Ginge/Aitch.  I'm a lot more impressed with Aitch as a camp mate, he's more depth, is more interesting, providing the better entertainment and is confounding expectations, but Ginge has this cheeky grin and smile, whereas Aitch is not naturally endearing and has a "rob your granny" vibe.  I definitely started off much more preferring Ginge, but I've questioned that the last few days.  I'm keeping them level until I see solid evidence to back up where I'm leaning or a strong evidence based suggestion the market should move in a certain direction.  Trading when you don't have confidence one way or the other is not a good play.

I'd definitely have been out backing Lisa at 1/2 today if I wasn't heavily on her already.  Just took the small amount on here at 1.51.  Something outrageous will need to happen to get her beat.  Once Ruby proved to be the expected busted flush, the only one who had the credentials to challenge her imo was Shona, and Shona despite being very relatable and a nice girl, is one dimensional and a little dull

Shona at the stewards for non trying Clyde

Is it OK to post about Tom’s chances on here ?

Unpopular opinion - I think he can win still .

Insider Odds says he was third. Are you thinking people will want an antidote to the Manc stew forced down their throats?

On the current coarse in the jungle I'm less keen on Tom than I was, he is not getting a winners edit imo, every year it's said that x will get more edit as the numbers thin, and each year it never happens that way, between trials and people leaving I don’t expect an upturn for Tom.
I will back though on new information as he does have potential.

I mean maybe he was close, but the facts say shona just beat him in a vote

Not bothered about the camp leader vote.

He’s already been camp leader when he entered the jungle - will have polluted the voting , saw plenty of comments on social media to this effect.

If he’s a huge price after tonight’s elimination I’ll start to be concerned.

The camp leader was a body blow for Jack as he's just they type who normally do disproportionately well in those votes, but not for Tom, as he'd already got the gig as hemsby said.  Not great for Lisa either as I thought she could possibly get it.  He's still featuring a fair bit and provides plenty, just not getting the big ticket item.  I did lay him a bit today as he'd shortened but I stopped because I was beginning to feel concerned it might be inside info. as there was no good reason why he shortens now that I know of.  (which doesn't mean there isn't one) He can still win imo, and still my biggest winner because of HS bets.  I'm never taking him red on here.  Does feel time is running out to me though

There's obvious special circumstances re Shona getting it,  the fact that Alex wanted her to win and how it would be great for her confidence if she did.  Which was just before the lines opened.  Added to that, there were prolly a fair few proxy votes too, given Aitch and Ginge weren't in it.  Which is ofc a pointer to their popularity as GB already pointed out.

Won't be doing a Hira tonight, presumably. The best value could well be the 'third' person I referenced in a previous post, as even mathematically it's pretty had for the likely lad massive to get both of them to the last two, unless there is producer shenanigans. The market could still make them a fair outsider, however.

Viewing as a casual. given the comments made by Alex yiu would have to say Shona was long odds on to be camp leader. That said if Lise, Tom or Jack were to be a significant threat to the front two they should have had enough support.
The only vote known to the insiders at this stage was last nights VTS so Lisas.Toms, Shonas Vogues and Eddies are at this stage unknown. Todays market moves show a distinct lack of support gor both Ruby and jack so both can be discounted from a winning POV.

Looking at previous voting patterns, people have come from the clouds to win this show. As numbers whittle down, characters are more magnified, things can change quite dramatically.

GB
The Bible also says 'Thou shalt not kill'; how to reconcile this with Leviticus, I'll leave to the theologians to argue about! I, as a mere mortal, kinda have to figure out which takes precedence and, along with 100% of Christians, have opted not to kill anyone, rather than going around stoning homosexuals. That's islam's thing, not ours. Nor mine

As to ' begrudgingly tolerate gay people', well, as explained upthread, I don't care what people do in private, so 'through donkeys years of rtv' it's never stopped me backing them. Indeed, the most recent one I can think of was JoJo, and I started her train!



fll
Righty oh! Your forum, your rules. I'd been on thin ice there since posting stuff about The Don; the 'virus' and vax boll0x, Russiagate, Hunter's laptop etc, so no great surprise. At least it'll save me the ignominy of posting my disastrous 'Naps' game score and, if I ever get to The Pearly Gates, a bit of being Religiously Persecuted along the way might negate some of my sins!

Not my forum tim, but I did feel I had to act. Like others I'm sorry it came to this and I'm sure you'll be missed by many, but maybe not for your naps

Wouldn't mind but, having won three of the first five years, the new member who's won the three? four? years since then isn't having a great year, so the lead? joint lead? was there for the taking. Not sure but, even after a mare of a season so far, I think if Ruby wins, I might have a chance

He seems to be polling better than anyone despite not doing any solo trials.  Since of the principles he is surely due one (so damn nice that he won't push himself no doubt) that could yet propel him to victory.  With a fair wind and some early trials I think he'd be a very likely winner

I'm fully aware that the polling is the wrong demo and doesn't pick up on Aitch and Ginge's support.  The Camp Leader vote is imo much more indicative of public support

Perfect antidote to the sweet stealers too.

I'm surprised that you think trials still influence the outcome. When we had full access to the voting numbers, in the app era, whether they had trial or not, the vote hardly moved. Even the general edit didn't seem to have much effect.

Perhaps it would do if it was perceived as very unfair who did them (eg someone copping all of them, or dodging them).

I can't see him being close. He's never felt like the type to do well with a mainstream ITV audience to me. He'd have been better on BB.

more or less, it is decided by the time vts starts. the one doubt is JJ, but that was when they stopped publishing the voting. JJ was practically invisible for the whole series.

The various fb polls are odd. Different day a different leader. No rhyme or reason to them

Just given my 5 votes for Tom.

the ups and downs of specials - tom now my main man again - revive this thread (with no leviticus this time) - lots of sm comments people getting tired of the gormless mancs.

I've been derelicting my duties as the train driver.  Think he will lead the vote at the final 2 stage myself

Yes T2. I'm thinking he beats H and it's him and Ginge T2. Who is your other T2 Clyde?

I'd prefer Ginge at this point but doubt there is much in it at all.  Keep going back to The Camp Leader vote which Aitch won ahead of Ginge.  The fact it's close is a good thing for Tom, and he is a great alternative to their sweet stealing and whingeing about washing up

At the time of that Camp Leader vote, Aitch was at his peak...got more c0cky the longer the series went

disagree army, but Aitch's supporters are more motivated, so it maybe in a much smaller vote that made the difference

They are both cocky, it's part of their appeal in the narrative that has been built.  But also many won't like it.  Tom is the complete opposite.

Aitch was polling very badly the day before the Camp Leader vote.  He drifted a fair chunk in the preceding day to the CL vote on the back of it.  At some point on this thread I stated that I had 4 greens Tom, Ginge, Shona and Lisa, which I believe was around that time.  I laid him on the back of that poll.  He might not be polling great now, but he was polling worse then.  I don't believe his support will show up on polls, but we will see.

If you hadn't noticed you helped turn my mind, not sure Tom competes with the Gracie narrative...it has took off this morning when most are off work with time on there hands

The clip from the press centre of today's trials, makes Tom look like a group horse up against handicappers

"oh I've already had it in liquid form?"

Tom's stories on insta are fully loaded up with support from everywhere and everyone

What has always been evident from the moment Tom came in was how effusive his support is.  Those that love him really love him.

15 years of CGD i can see those hard core fans voting in droves

Without doubt the most motivated support of the three

Tom still incredible value. Ginge and Aitch were a good foil - full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Quality train, Tom looking good in the trial,  I doubt there will be a change of lead, I'm not confident in the results tonight,  Ginge my best result.

I've recently brought Ginge onside, the market will only change 10% when Shona goes and Ginge and Tom have been bouncing about more than that. Tom is mega for me though and with the eating trial. Shona is a loss.

It will be educational for us - Can an unknown twitch kid, who's been fun but nothing at all special, win a major RTV? Is IAC really clean now? I know it hasn't been 100% clean this year.

Dec 7, 2025 -- 1:25PM, armagnac wrote:

Without doubt the most motivated support of the three

Yeah from the comments "Ginge to win" V "Tom is such a kind spirit, I really want him to win."

"Tom never took more than his fair share of food or lied about it.  Tom has consistently been kind, entertaining, supportive and interested in other people.  The way he spoke to Shona about her broken engagement made me happy he was there for her.  Also more broadly, we're in a weird and scary time in politics, where loud, angry voices are taking priority.  I cast all my votes for the Toms: for the gays, the weirdos, the people who love poetry and arts, that friend who will stay up with you all night after a break up.  May all of us have such good friends."

Almost bought a tear to my eye reading that.

Does ITV still give percentages? I think it might be closer than most finals.

Neck on the line Henry
Tom wins by at least 10%
Market is wrong way around.

Yes I've always thought that about Market, whoever wins.

Ginge and Shona both uncomfortable reds for me.

Got a little carried away backing Jack in the first week.
Struggled to bring others onside.

Boo    Better not be another 49.5%

Unlucky Clyde, kids eh

UL Clyde, he gave you a nice run for your money and hopefully a nice profit

I did alright.  On any ordinary week I'd be more than chuffed with the results.  Yesterday a bit deflating though as apart from Tom not bringing home the bacon, I'd also backed Mitchell Lawrie to win the WDF WC darts at 14/1 11/1 and 9/1.  He's a 15yo kid who could be the next Luke Littler.  Anyway he was 3-0 up in the final and lost 6-3.

I was also intending to have a big bet on McIlroy to beat Chloe Kelly, as was very confident if it was between the two of them McIlroy would win.  Have some money backing McIlroy and laying Kelly when Chloe was fave and Norris was an outside bet for the WC, and also small backs of Norris and Littler on the premis that if they were included in the eventual shortlist that would make McIlroy less likely to win.  So that's a decent position in terms of prices now, but it's not big money.  So that's a little deflating too.

I was thinking Norris and Littler (will he be included) were more likely to take votes off McIlroy than Kelly (will she even be included).  That's why I didn't make a big move earlier.  At the time neither Norris or Littler looked like they'd be included, but Norris coming into contention for the DC made me hesitate.  So McIlroy being far shorter now despite Norris making the shortlist is kind of annoying!

Some days this business just does that to you CB - always when I have the unluckiest losing bet, very likely to have one just the same follow it.

A good pick for the trading though in this series.