shane williams called up for lions

legend

he will play against the Brumbies

One game only...in then back out again.

Very weird, but excellent to see.

it's getting farcical at this stage.

Gareth Edwards just seen ordering a pair of boots in Sports Direct.

To be fair, Shane still probably 10 times better than Maitland.

How many players have been involved in total now ?  Looks like a record haul to me . Why did they not pick a few guys ( backs mainly ) who can play rugby in any position .  Would have saved a good few quid in flights etc ( although they are probably getting freebies ) . Plus adaptability in the course of games ( not that winning games has been difficult so far ) .

But I suspect that one over riding criteria ( a la soccer) is marketability when you are sporting a "Lions " cap . The money game again .

SCW initial squad in 2005 was 44 players. 

I don't understand your other point, but never mind.

i thought this was a joke at first when it was mentioned on the radio. i'm sure he is still capable but a real slight on some of the other wingers around at the mo.

I guess the Japan factor is key, but still.

Farcical is the key word

I applaud Gatland for this move,. He needs a winger for 1 game due to needing to rest players who have knocks so rather than call up someone new which may begin to de-value the Lions cap he gives it to someone who he knows can perform. Just playing the Convicts at their own game with the poor quality opposition and accusations of cheating and biting.

i hadn't realised he was flying out for the one game. not sure if that does make sense or not.
what does WG do if he plays an absolute blinder tho?

Which he will, as he's Sugar Shane Williams!

What else could he do?

any idea how he has been getting on in Japan?

No, to be honest, I hadn't the foggiest he was playing out there.

From what I can work out from transalating the website, Shane Williamsville (!) started in a 34-36 loss in mid May, and played a full game on June 8th against Toshiba Bray blue path, that ended in a 47-19 win for his side. From the synopsis, I can't really make out how many he scored but I think it may be three. See what you think:


[Scores] exhibition game vs Toshiba Bray blue path I [was] Up photo
Exhibition game at Toshiba Fuchu ground, Toshiba Bray blue path round was held on Saturday, June 8. Everyone who have rushed to support ground up, thank you.

40min × 2
(C) ← Captain
1. Komatsu Studies (C)
2. (0 minutes into the second half) → Inoue Kyohei Ando Yu rare
3. (29 minutes into the second half) Fujita Yukihito → Sasaki Hayao
4. (21 minutes into the second half) Inoue majestic → Tokuda Akira true
5. (26 minutes into the second half) Yamamoto Kenta Kenta Uchida →
6. (33 minutes into the second half) Daniel Lindy → Kenta Yamamoto
7. Nakagawa Gough Arequipa Sandusky Akira Nakamura Taku → tree (first half 29 minutes)
8. (21 minutes into the second half) Horikoshi Kensuke → Fukuchi Ryota
9. (26 minutes into the second half) Nishidate Kenta → Shimomura true Taro
10. (26 minutes into the second half) Shioya, Hiroshi Ando, ​​Eiji →
11. Shane Williamsville
12. (13 minutes into the second half) Cheap Shintaro Abe → Takuo
13. (0 minutes into the second half) Ota Chihiro → Rocco Tsui Shu Peri
14. (13 minutes into the second half) Chihara Kenta → Tamamura Naoyuki
15. (26 minutes into the second half) Yuji Owada → Daisuke Noda



Expand the game elapsed before half Toshiba 6 minutes BK Tri-G success (0-7)
Toshiba 13 minutes from the front of the goal center scrum 10 → 12 Tri G failure (0-12)
The BK Mitsubishi expand from 28 minutes in front of the goal Mall Shioya → Shane Tri G failure (7-10)
The BK expand from Mitsubishi 40 minutes turn over Tri G failure Shane (12-12)
The BK expand from the line-out Mitsubishi 42 minutes in front of the goal Nishidate → Horikoshi Tri-G success (19-12)

Shioya is to intercept the second half of Mitsubishi 2 minutes Tri-G success (26-12)
Toshiba 7 minutes in front of the goal continuous attack 5 Tri-G success (26-19)
Expand from Toshiba 21 minutes in front of the goal Tri G success 11 (26-26)
Connect Tri-G success and Mitsubishi 30 minutes short side Komatsu → → Fukuchi Lindy (33-26)
The BK expand from Mitsubishi 38 minute line-out, Ando Sakae → → Shane Abe Tri-G success (40-26)
Fukuchi is connected to Shane removal from Mitsubishi 40 minutes in front of the goal scrum Tri-G success (47-26)

I say fair play to Williams.  Gatty asked him for a dig out and he obliged.  How many UK or Ire based players can you see heading out for three days.  I can see the agents and managers trying to negotiate a second or third appearance.

Ozy , reference the marketability thing , in soccer circles getting a cap invariably puts money into someones pocket , be it club , agent , or player .  Dont think rugby is far away from the same kind of thinking , particularly given that the media increasingly influence thinking .  So its give out as many caps as you can rather than less .

Anyone total up the squad to date , including those sent home and those who joined after the initial selection ?

UK or Ire based players wouldn't have been asked to go out for just 3 days.  The key is he was in Japan anyway and I also heard was coming over anyway to do media stuff for the Tests so to get him in for a one-off game when there are many winger injuries makes sense.

Surely I'm not the only one reckoning the flurry of dubious callups devalues the Lions ethos though.  I've nowt against Williams but frankly I'd rather see them shuffle players around (like a club team might have to do).  If we are saying the lions now need 50 players for a tour then there is something wrong with the schedule or (my opinion) you have taken too many injured / injury prone players.   I'd be livid if I was someone like Trimble / Visser / Hook / Biggar in fact any of the dozens of potential Lions left behind.

with north & roberts an injury doubts trimble would have been a sensible choice to fly out. likewise if north can't play then visser is a similar type of player.
i think a few that were carrying knocks have kept it quiet.
the real unlucky one was bowe cos he would have been fresh as a daisy and was looking very sharp.

I am amazed he call up "Ickle Liar" , I was really beginning to enjoy the tour

His inclusion certainly adds some spice to the Brumbies game. I'd love him to have an absolute blinder then give Gatland a bit of a headache.

Is Andy Irvine injured , or has he left his boots at home ? . . . . . Just a wee joke , Good luck Shane !!!!!!!!!

In a game which still holds the ethos of being honourable , he should be no where near this squad and it has tainted it for me !

The Ospreys cited Marcus Horan for racially abusing Elvis Seveali'i in a Heineken Cup game
This was as a counter to Munster citing Mustoe for stamping on Horan's head (Horan needed numerous stitches)

Shane Williams (not Elvis Seveali'i) flew to the hearing (flew to Dublin, so he had time to think about it) and swore that he heard Marcus Horan abusing Elvis.

Unfortunately for Willaims Microphones picked up the entire incident - clearly and exactly what Horan said and the cameras showed that Shane Williams wasn't close enough to Horan to actually hear what he said anyway.

The statement from the ERC was very strong which stated that Horan never uttered the words in the first place.
Therefore the Committee dismissed the citing.

Never an apology from Williams and brushed under the carpet by the media

It's not like Munster fans to carry bitterness in their hearts!

A few pints, mrtopnotch, then a lusty chorus or two of the 'Fields of Athenry', bitterly lamenting other occasions on which you were hard done by and shure you will fell as right as reign!

Another case of a Munster player being falsely cited

Another case of a Munster player being falsely cited

That is bloody disgraceful from Williams, I'd never heard that either.

Not convinced the detractors of this move have considered the logistics of the tour. It's not like Gatland has called up Will James because he's on holiday in Aus and would fill a spot, he's bought in a NH legend who is still playing and takes a space for one game, a warm up game that isn't actually a warm-up but more like a bloody annoyance. Nobody in the test team wants to play against the Brumbies, putting Shane in provides headlines writers and fans with plenty to get excited about and gives some bruised bodies a rest. The Wallabies aren't playing games on a Tuesday before a test match so this is the sort of thing Gatland has to do to level the playing field.

Williams is the 44th player involved Kelly (its amazing what you can do in 90 seconds with a connection to the internet).

In 2009 37 men started the tour, 8 were added, making 45. In 2005 44 men started and 7 were added, making 51 in total.

So 44 is nothing special at all.

What could be wrong with seeing a ghost?

RugbyMan , in the old days there were about 30 in a tour party , and being a "Lion " was really something .  When 30 becomes 44 plus , does it not devalue the honour a bit ?  Particularly bearing in mind the injured ones not there .  Hard to believe there are 44 real Lions in the home countries would be a point I would make . . And with Wilkinson sitting at home , he is / was a Lion .

There are guys out on this tour who we will struggle to remember as players in a few years time .

Thats not to detract from the ones who ARE Lions standard .

Kelly, are you suggesting bringing 30?

No , Ozy , with the physicality now involved you need a lot more than 30 .  Just saying that when they start to helicopter people in halfway through a tour , added to the 10 or more already there who will never be Lions with the best will in the world , it devalues the "Lions " title .

Watched a bit of Edwards , Bennet and Williams on the telly this morning , part of  great Welsh and Lions  teams .  How many of the  44 fit that mould ?

In any Lions Squad you will have your superstar Lions and your dirt trackers. Looking through rosé tinted glasses when you mention the above trio and not remember the likes of Arthur Lewis , Alastair Biggar, John Spencer, Geoff Evans etc 1971 Lions who didn't fit that mould atthe time but were decent internationals and I'm sure proud Lions
The trio you mention are legends of the game whose legendary status was certainly enhanced by winning Test Series in both NZ and SA.

While they were great Welsh teams bear in mind Wales won  their first GS since 1952 when they grand slammed in 1971. It takes time to build legends and certainly the current Welsh squad has achieved as much as the aforementioned trio at a comparable stage of their careers. This Lions Tour is the next brick in their legendary status

I think a nice few of the Welsh Lions will in time measure up to their predecessors.

THE OLDER WE GET THE BETTER WE WERE

Not to mention the other legendary Lions who were contemporaries of Gareth , Phil and JPR  , yummy .

Point was there were about 5 or 6 in the old days who were never going to make the Lions team , net of injuries .  Nowadays there are about 20 in the tour party who will not make the Test team . Thats a lot of also rans .

The other thing which strikes me about current squads of 44 or so , as against 30 in the old days , never mind the entourage , is the difficulty of getting approximately 60 people to sing the same song . So I reckon it is more difficult to manage a tour personnel wise than it used to be .  Willie John often talks about team spirit reference his 4 tours , relatively simple then as it was a smallish party , more difficult nowadays I suspect . And in the old days the players might have got the odd phone call home , nowadays I suspect the texting , twittering , skyping etc often involves agents etc and sponsorship deals .  Distracts from performance on pitch I think .

Still hopeful we will get a result on Saturday , but think today may have made some people think a bit .

Checked up on that 71 Lions team , yummy .  There were 33 on it , but it lasted 3 months , first match 12 May , last match 14 Aug . Thats 3 months worth . And they played a couple of matches in Brissy and Sydney before they hit New Zealand .

All 3 of the afore mentioned Welsh stars acknowledged the contribution that Cameron Michael Henderson made to the tour , the All Blacks said he was the best rugby footballer they had ever seen , he stopped 90% of their attacks before they got them started so to speak .  Great rugby brain .  Mike , Gareth and Barry were 3 of the best players I have ever seen , and when you put them on a team that also included Willie John , Fergus Slattery , Ray McLoughlin ( our other 3 ) and also John Dawes , Gerald Davies ,and Mervyn Davies  , the "legends" stretch to 9 , and there were other great players there too , as well as the lesser known ones you mentioned . Hiller , Bevan , Duckham , Pullin , Brown , Taylor were also in the great category , if not legends .

So the spectacles are not entirely rosy , they just reflect the quality of rugby then  , I would be hard pressed to name many other Lions over the  years up to the standard of those . Martin Johnson one of the few who would have got an automatic pick onto that team .

Cheers .

There's been comment that 44 isnt that many but we've not played a test yet (presumably more physical than tour matches).  My point is also we seem to have called up 3 backs who arent going to cover the wing except Zebo and has he the size to cope with Israel or Digby (same goes for Maitland).  Trimble / Visser / even Brown or Moyne makes more sense to me.

You do realise that Zebo is 6'2" tall and weighs in at 14st 10lbs

3of the 4 you mention above are smaller than Zebo  , Visser at 6'4" and 17 stone being the obvious exception

You're not seriously putting up Zebo as a defensive goliath are you.  Trimble and Visser are bigger.  Brown is very solid defensively. Its not the Zebo inclusion I'm questioning its calling up Williams for one game and the English pair in the midfield - avergage and not wing cover.  I'd take a bet that there'll be a winger on a plane in the next week.

I think tommy bowe's return to fitness  will lose you your money although technically you should,collect as,the Lions board their plane to Mellbourne

And yes I do rate Zebo defensively.