English/Southern Irish

Sinn Féin MEP Lynn Boylan complained during a European Parliament committee meeting that it was unfortunate she could not speak in Irish.
The vice chair immediately informed her that Irish interpretation was available and that she was free to speak in Gaeilge.
Boylan then replied that she had not prepared her remarks in Irish and would continue in English instead.
For a party that strongly promotes the Irish language, the exchange has raised questions. If using Irish is such an important principle, should senior representatives be prepared to speak it when the opportunity is available?

lol

It is a curiosity. Why would a nation continue to converse and communicate in the language of another country it loathes with passion.

It would be akin to England being German based.

Being an English speaking nation has also meant they've been flooded with third world beggars

If the virtue signalling is to be believed, more than welcome.

Unless they've traversed the UK as part of the excursion.

Anyone familiar with why Southern Irish as a country predominately converse in English and not Irish?

I'd take a wild guess that it was all
The Invading,
The Conquering,
The Colonising,
The Subjugating,
The Anglicising of state and power for decades,
and the beating at school for speaking the native language wot dun it.

Nobody from those times is still alive in Southern Ireland. Are they?

The UK has been irreversibly changed in 30 years.

I'm not buying that. A tiny country could easily retain their original language (or revert back to it), rather than their so called invaders' enforced language.

It's like having had a divorce decades ago, but keeping the husband's name and still visiting his house for regular booty calls.

Most divorcees that hate their ex would sever all ties.

All the union jack flag waving 'patriots' in the North seem to prefer the Republics passpost then the British one,why is that?

Northern Ireland is part of the UK is my understanding. I suppose a more pertinent question is why would people who see themselves as Southern Irish, choose to live in the UK?

Seems even more weird, choosing to stay living in your hated ex husbands house !

Pro rata more from the UK have relocated to Ireland,check it out.

I don't see much bitterness towards Southern Ireland in the UK though. At least, not on the same level as the reverse.

Would you like to see the CTA consigned to the bin ?

It doesn't explain why the predominant language in Southern Ireland is English. I am genuinely trying to wrap my head around why the state would not want to switch to Irish for the Irish.

'what proportion of the irish population is fluent in irish'

It depends on what you mean by "fluent." There isn't a single official measure, but the 2022 Irish census gives enough information to make a reasonable estimate.

40.4% of people aged 3 and over (about 1.87 million people) said they could speak Irish at some level.
Of those Irish speakers:
10% said they spoke it "very well."
32% said they spoke it "well."
55% said they did not speak it well.

If you treat "very well" + "well" as a rough proxy for fluency, then:

42% of the 40.4% who speak Irish ≈ 17% of Ireland's population.

So a reasonable estimate is that around one in six people (about 17%) are at least reasonably fluent in Irish by their own assessment.

However, everyday use is much less common:

About 72,000 people (roughly 1.4–1.5% of the population) reported speaking Irish daily outside the education system.
Around 624,000 reported speaking it daily including within education, but this figure includes schoolchildren using Irish in class.

So the picture is:

~40% can speak some Irish.
~17% rate themselves as speaking it well or very well.
~1.5% use it daily outside school, making habitual everyday use relatively rare despite a much larger pool of competent speakers.

That was answered at 10.04,the bitterness may be in your head?

17%

1.5% use it daily outside school

lolol

(that is chat gpt results)

As you know, I am both English and Irish. Albeit I've never lived in Ireland, half my family is from Southern Ireland, I went to Irish schools and grew up in an Irish dominated part of London, permanently in Irish social circles. So I have reasonable, first hand insight.

Yes, the bitterness is strong.

Do you not think you are quite bitter?

No. Most of my school buddies where different to me, in that they weren't from a mixed family, both parents were Southern Irish. So even though they were born here, they saw themselves as Irish and typically hated England. And that was 30+ years ago!

Murphy is one of my favourite jockeys. He did a podcast in Ireland. It was very interesting as it was almost as if he thought that nobody British would see it, the guard was down. It was very disappointing how he talked about living and working in England. It's not uncommon though, I think most foreigners in England are here to take what they can take, and in it for themselves. That is my impression. Maybe every is the same, but I suspect not. Certainly most people living in the US would consider themselves to be Americans (for example).

Everyone knows what an Irish American is. I've never heard anyone label themselves as Irish British.

Most foreigners are cheap labour and living almost substandard and surviving would be my view.

Begs the question, why not go home for a better life ?

Baffling isn't it. Land of milk and honey just a mere ferry ride away. Yet they plough on, being subjugated in England.

Shame and failure would play some part with some,many would probably be better off returning home.

Do you support the CTA?

In general i do but it is getting abused from the North. You (UK) think that the level of immigration is high would be speechless walking through Cork City

no such entity as southern ireland. theres one island and its ireland

the partition is an anachronism that will inevitably go. surprised at pa's passiveness at this

anyone who knows anything, which rules out peebrain with his simplistic tripe about invasion will see this. the wars of religion waged throughout europe for a long time and ireland was part of it, and got off light by comparison to the appalling slaughter of the wars between france, spain netherlands, etc, never mind the thirty years war. why were france and spain getting involved in ireland? it was all connected

too many people have no sense of historical perspective. at the time it wasnt abnormal for a state to try to impose its faith on another, the spanish attempted genocide in the netherlands being one example and it scared the life out of the brits, such was its power and wealth at the time

if you want an example of brutal religious oppression theres plenty of exanples that expalin why this country was terrified of the catholic powers and the popes edicts that legitimised their actions. ireland was seen as a back door

still, ireland is the only country where a state-sponsored reformation failed. which could be seen as good or bad

and it was daniel o'connell (ive been to his house in derrynane) who advocated using english as it was the language that would help the country get up and prosper, and he was right

Ireland and England should be friends, as should Scotland be friends with England and England should have remained in EU, but maybe it was all about cryptocurrency
The truth about brexit is now emerging
I doubt Donaldson will be able to spend that in prison

Btw I think the mob that got brexit done were clever they targeted village idiots to vote for it and made billions for themselves and left their voters skint.
Now that is clever.
Horrible people but clever.

The EU is a venomous, evil and spiteful construct, but my debate is not about the EU. The EU just happens to be mentioned in the CTA agreement.

I was raised a Catholic, and have respect for the values I was raised with as part of that upbringing. So this is nothing to do with religion on my part. Though obviously, I recognise some of the hate that persists in Southern Ireland is rooted in religion. And yes in a very small part of the UK, that is somewhat reciprocated.

But I'm still not clear on why the Irish state wants to persist in using the dialect of its sworn enemy, when it has one of its own. 

I'm also interested in identifying anyone coming from the Southern Irish perspective that doesn't support the CTA. This also lack logic. If the English / British are so horrible, why would you want them to be able to come and live in your country, claim your benefits et al. English people appear to have freedom of movement into Southern Ireland. I get why the British allow it, we have utter wet wipes in charge who love nothing better than to prostrate themselves over perceived ills of the dim and distant past.

If the Southern Irish government announced it intended to end the CTA agreement, would there be a big fuss and kick back against it there, or would it be predominately supported?

Hypothetical obviously, but would be interesting to get the perspective of others.

Bang on BF,of course it is the island of Ireland until a hundred years ago when it was partitioned.
You are correct in saying i'm passive but that is recent, i was quite vocal. Do i want anything to do with the animals burning people out of their houses because of their skin tone,not really, they aren't Irish and i'm almost content to have that imaginary line to separate from the likes of them at this stage.

You still need identification for both authorities when travelling between the two whether by boat or plane,i think you are over stating the importance of the CTA, you had an almost similar set up with the EU,ie freedom of movement within Europe until you didn't want it and voted to do away with it.

Its interesting that they have decided to remain in the CTA agreement which precludes them from joining Schengen
Its only southern Ireland and Cyprus that are not in Schengen out of the EU countries

English is the international language of business and the Irish Government have gone out of their way to court the big multi nationals with their low business taxes

6. Accessing social housing support in the CTA

If you are a British or Irish citizen residing in the other state you have the right to access social housing, including supported housing and homeless assistance, on the same basis as citizens of that state. Both governments have committed to taking steps to ensure that this will continue.


7. Voting rights in the CTA
If you are a British or Irish citizen living in the other state you are entitled to register to vote with the relevant authorities for local and national parliamentary elections in that state on the same basis as citizens of that state. Upon reaching voting age, you are entitled to vote in those elections on the same basis as citizens of that state. Both governments have committed to ensuring that these arrangements will continue.

Oh yes it appears the Irish despise capitalism and low taxes, aside from the type that benefits them.

Supporting the CTA if you're Irish is incredibly hypocritical it seems to me. But that is nothing new.

I can't believe that it never gets discussed in political discourse, the level of leeway we still give the Irish. Especially after colluding with the EU to try and collapse Brexit.

@ no 6, i think that was written many decades ago in a totally different scenario, good luck and heavens forbid you needed social housing or homeless help because i doubt they would be able to do a lot for you in BOTH countries.

4. Accessing social security benefits in the CTA

If you are a British or Irish citizen residing or working in the other’s state, working in both states or working across the border you are subject to only one state’s social security legislation at a time. You can access social security benefits and entitlements, including pensions, from whichever state you are subject to the social security legislation of, regardless of where you are living.

When working in the CTA, you pay into only one state’s social security scheme at a time and are entitled, when in the other state, to the same social security rights, and are subject to the same obligations, as citizens of that state.

You also have the right to access social security benefits on the same basis as citizens of the state you are in. The UK and Irish governments have concluded a bilateral agreement to ensure that these rights will continue to be protected.

the CTA is nothing like EU FOM.

325k Irish live in the UK,100-120k English nationals live in Ireland. As said pro rata populations it is very lopsided.
Quite a few with both though not exceptional,isn't the CTA a good thing for them all?

All the more reason for an Irish only person to support the cessation of the CTA.

What are the principled reasons for the continued support of offering concessions to your nemesis?

And the reinstatement of using the native language as the default means of conversing. You don't mind using metres instead of yards.

Is Ireland a socialist country, or does it favour capitalism as an ideology?

I don't know where you are getting nemesis from, not really apt these days. The perception of England by Irish would be one of amusement almost these days, Boris the clown, putting trade sanctions on yourself,down with johnny foreigner, notions of your own self importance.
On the plus side you have done well with Ukraine,Labour has tried to build bridges with Europe.

The perception of Ireland here is rank hypocrisy, backstabbing and undermining Brexit by fair means or foul.

As I allude to, your continuation of support for the CTA is rank hypocrisy.

It's not all Irish people obviously, I was very impressed by Paul Byrne on rtv for example. Most Irish people have their hands out on the surface, and deep seated seething and resentment below the surface. Plenty of Irish people that have enveloped themselves into the British establishment and doing their best to eat it up from the inside. In my opinion. But the current holders of real power in the UK tacitly support them. In my opinion.

Hopefully the Irish will return to their roots at some stage, and raise the common use of the native language above 1.5%

That pillock supposedly advising the idiot starmer, a primary example. Can you imagine an English person running the political governance of Ireland. Me neither ! But the tw@ats that run this place are more than willing to bend over.

You undermined brexit yourself by not taking the GFA into the equation,don't blame Ireland for your own mess.
Besides didn't Patel want to create a food embargo, don't forget that. Ireland has opened new shipping routes since that threat to the continent.

Sin e bhfuil,biodh la deas agat.

Boris was a necessary evil, and the fascists might have won without him, and prevented democracy. He very nearly became one of the best PMs we had, if he'd only held the line over the disastrous lockdowns. In the end, the wet liberal won out and he opened the borders to the world. Sadly.

I would support severing all historical ties and simply have a trade agreement that we have with dozens of other little countries. Give anyone in either country currently, a decade to obtain citizenship of their respective country if they don't already have it. For free. Anyone left can return to the land of milk and honey.

[img]https://images.onesite.com/community.betfair.com/user/cider/3c5c3fb19ba...

Crazy thread Cider obviously hates Ireland btw leaving cert in Irish is compulsory in Republic of Ireland.

These are plausible questions.

Are you fluent in Irish?

Do you support the CTA?

Why is Ireland still based in the English language?

As I've stated in the past, I have a natural skill one might say, in being able to pick up on patterns. One example is on rtv, the Irish broadcasters search out the best angle to get the Irish flag in the picture (or, as above, bizarre directions to continental capitals in the middle of the paddock). But not the Northern Ireland tracks. In Britain, the broadcasters do the opposite on rtv, and try and find angles where the English flag /UF is out of shot. I mean, they are less evident on British tracks in any case, but avoid them when they have them.

Has lfc taken over ciders account?

The difference is stark, imagine them going to Leicester or Catterick, searching out the English flag, and stating how great it is to be racing in England, how great the English people are etc etc. In Ireland on rtv, it's practically every meeting.

RA is pretty much the only meeting where domestic patriotism isn't sniffed at. Of course, that meeting isn't even on rtv.

The difference at the Derby is huge, whomever runs the gig has practically eliminated the patriotism. Huge difference to say, only a handful of years ago.

Yes
Yes
English language is still used world wide
Good luck to you for having “natural skill” but I really don’t know why this issue would upset you, is about a Flag ? Who cares ? I’d be more interested in my bet on race, when I watch racing I don’t notice flags, it’s not going to help my bet win

Watching rtv made me think of the topic. Generally. The lack of patriotism at home isn't on the Irish broadcasters, it is on the domestic ones and whomever is embarrassed by being British/English.

The language thing is a genuine question, it doesn't make sense to me why Ireland speaks English instead of Irish. My curiosity has not really been quelled by the responses yet. Cynical approach put foreword seems to be the most logical, to attract money from America. In conjunction with an extremely low tax agenda.

Is there any demand from Irish in Ireland to start speaking in Irish?

If I had 300 euros on a bet and it won they could be flying union jacks and orange order flags I would not be caring one jot, all I’d be interested in my money

As I stated, I have a flair for picking up on patterns. It's a curse as well, not just you, they seem to pass most people by!

Exactly Malay

I remember celebrating a horse winning Northumberland plate at Newcastle, with jockey wearing red and white stripes,.. 14/1 lovely stuff

Ha ha

There was some Lunatic on here who said they had orange Marches in Cricklewood

Went to the galtymore a few times , i never seen any orange marches

lol, no. Not when I was living in the area. We did get i r a bombs.

I used to go to the Crown in Cricklewood, believe it or not. No orange marches in evidence, for sure

Swan at Stockwell , The Hibernian Fulham Broadway , another couple of Late night Venues

there was another near Brook Green Hammersmith , I cant remember the Name

was it the Garry Owen ?

good craic at the lot of them , plenty staggering out at the End of the night

probably less than 50 P a pint back then

I went to most of them along the Edgware rd. The whole area was Irish, Kilburn, Cricklewood, Hendon, Burnt Oak, Neasden, Dollis Hill, Willesden, Willesden Green, Colindale, Kingsbury, Wembley.

Indeed , the KPH Cider keep p@ddy happy , can't remember where that was LOL But was in it a few times , was it kilburn ?

all a Blur Mate , but were good times , and very little aggro if any

I'm afraid my memory doesn't recall all of them. Plenty of freehouses turned up as well, like the Hole In The Wall in Cricklewood. Moon Under Water? The Village was just up the road towards Harrow, that wasn't an Irish pub as far as I recollect. The Ox and Gate toward staples corner where the big bomb was. That's where the M1 starts, Brent Cross. The bomb closed the flyover for a couple of years.

Not Harrow sorry, the Village was between Cricklewood and Golders Green

I used to go to the DOB club in Kilburn a fair bit as well as a guest. Irish Working Man's club. They actually had a Men's bar, no women allowed haha. That's how long ago it was.

No, not too much trouble unless you wanted it. Witnessed a few glassings, and the barman in the DOB being knocked out then the fella gave him a running kick to the head. I got attacked once in Willesden, merrily consuming a portion of chips on the side of the road, waiting for a mini cab. Bunch of lads just decided to try and beat me up for no reason. No serious injury. I was mugged in Kilburn for my M301 phone

Only thing I know about Cricklewood was that there was a Food Giant there, now replaced by a B&Q. And that joke that if a footballer thinks he's better than he is then he's described as 'more Cricklewood than Hollywood'.

A few years ago I was watching documentary with subtitles on Oasis, as I was listening I was trying to work out what language this was, never heard it before, couldn't catch the words, sounded very melodic and Scandinavian, then he pronounced Liam Gallagher's name with an Irish accent and the penny dropped ffs. Makes sense given the Vikings founded Dublin.

Speaking of pubs however, I was always under the impression that The Dublin castle, Edinboro castle, Pembroke, and Windsor castle pubs around Primrose hill/Camden areas were built to separate the Irish, English, Welsh and Scots canal and railway workers from fighting, only recently found out that was a bit of a myth, nice story though.

Kind Regards.

Greyhound going tonight lads I don’t think.she will win, but she’s fit and ready to go, first race for long time but looking forward getting her back to her job, let’s see what happens, it’s an interest for me, I love greyhounds

Yep, I well remember the food giant. My Nan lived on Chichele Road. FG was next to the Galty that was to become a bingo hall. One year we went to Cheltenham for the gold cup, ended up in the Galty that night, what a blur lol.

Good luck MALAY. My uncle in Cappoquin was a greyhound trainer. My old man (RIP) used to take me to Wembley dogs as a one off treat. I could see the old Wembley from my bedroom, and hear the concerts.

I believe my family's farm near Cappoquin is quite close to where Jimmy Mangan trains out of.

Thanks Cider appreciate that, I think she will make trio and come off sound, that is our ambition tonight anything better is a bonus.

the old nanny 17 Jul 26 15:34 
...there was another near Brook Green Hammersmith

The Richmond?

I personally don't recall going out in Hammersmith at all, but definitely Shepherd's Bush. Aussie pub, the walkabout.

Hammersmith had The Hop Poles, Shepherd's Bush had The Wellington

Big Aussie community in Shepherds Bush or at least they're used to be, think that Walkabout bar has gone now unless they were refurbing it as I last past, never went in there but there was also a Walkabout outside Temple tube station I did go to, that one now has definitely gone.

We used to go to royal oak station, couple of stops from Shepherd's Bush and drink in the Gooch in Bayswater.

Hammersmith had The Hop Poles, Shepherd's Bush had The Wellington,yep drank in all of them Tim

mates Dad was the Guvnor of the The general Smuts on the White City

Pub was very close to where one of the closing scenes in Layer Cake were filmed (under the A40 underpass).

overpass even!

Smuts was a Rough House a Right Mixture From the Estate, English Irish west Indian , but there was rarely any serious trouble we were all working class people Got on with it Back in the day

KPH i talked about earlier was on on ladbroke Grove Massive puib

I knew the Richmond tim

This was a an Irish Club it was a couple hundred Yards up from the Palais on same Side going to wards brook  Green ,Sure it was called the Garry Owen

Bit further up Was the Working mans Club , was Part of MO Valve around the Corner from the factory on Shepherds Bush road

Snooker table in there , Stan Bowles used to pop in for one or Two ,they were Good days in a different world

yes I never went there, to my knowledge. but you know what it's like, I was in places that I didn't exactly know where they were or what they were called.

that's quite near Grenfell I believe. I definitely went out to a place very close to Grenfell, it was a private function, wedding reception or something. also quite a rough place lol

Yes deffo a bit rough around there LOL

Millionaires living on the outskirts of it all

We were young we didn't give a flying

Y'all will definitely know Dicey Riellys in Neasden. And the 3 barrels.

oh yes, some of these places were absolute death traps as well. any fire and you'd have been toast.

We got 3rd and the hound is ok, so I’m happy enough not a bad night, we are always trying