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Putin told Trump “YOU ARE FIRED” time to sit in your armchair with your pipe and slippers
nice to see a US president trying to bring peace for a change and show some leadership
European "leaders" happy with a forever war to deal with Russia
European "leaders" happy with a forever war to deal with Russia
European leaders are of course not happy with a forever war. They'd rather have the war end yesterday than tomorrow. They however also simply know that populations don't accept really crappy deals that doom an entire country to being a colony whose population and identity will be destroyed.
In the face of Russia not moving an inch from its maximalist positions of wanting de jure control over areas they cannot even take militarily, along with dearmament of Ukraine and installation of a Russian government for the covert continuation of its genocide of Ukraine and ukrainian culture and identity, European leaders know Ukraine and its population would not accept what's on the table. Ukraine and European leaders have long done the huge concession of allowing Russia to keep de facto control of the areas it conquered militarily. Russia, in its ambition to keep the war going, is only making offers that Russia knows are plain unacceptable.
What European leaders also are is however be scared of Russia losing and what would happen then. Thus, through the entirety of the war, enabling Ukraine to hold the line against Russia's unilateral aggression and war of conquest and genocide, but not equipping Ukraine with the necessary tools to scare Russia into going away from its maximalist ambitions that they know fully well would be unacceptable to any other party.
In the face of Russia not moving an inch from its maximalist positions of wanting de jure control over areas they cannot even take militarily, along with dearmament of Ukraine and installation of a Russian government for the covert continuation of its genocide of Ukraine and ukrainian culture and identity, European leaders know Ukraine and its population would not accept what's on the table. Ukraine and European leaders have long done the huge concession of allowing Russia to keep de facto control of the areas it conquered militarily. Russia, in its ambition to keep the war going, is only making offers that Russia knows are plain unacceptable.
What European leaders also are is however be scared of Russia losing and what would happen then. Thus, through the entirety of the war, enabling Ukraine to hold the line against Russia's unilateral aggression and war of conquest and genocide, but not equipping Ukraine with the necessary tools to scare Russia into going away from its maximalist ambitions that they know fully well would be unacceptable to any other party.
The war will carry on, but the main thing for some is that Trump failed.
European leaders did nothing in 3 and a half years to end the war. They’ve had to follow Trump
Ukrainians want the war to end and for that to happen there will have to do a deal
They are slowly losing the war and have lost a generation of young men
Conscripts are fleeing
I don’t know what counts as a crappy deal but you’d have to be a special sort of stupid to think
they will get all their territory back. Perhaps cede the Donbas which they were bombing before the war anyway
Ukrainians want the war to end and for that to happen there will have to do a deal
They are slowly losing the war and have lost a generation of young men
Conscripts are fleeing
I don’t know what counts as a crappy deal but you’d have to be a special sort of stupid to think
they will get all their territory back. Perhaps cede the Donbas which they were bombing before the war anyway
The obese convicted criminal won’t ever admit he has failed.
Will claim he has saved Europe in the same way Chamberlain did.
If anything fails the rapist will blame Biden or Obama.
Will claim he has saved Europe in the same way Chamberlain did.
If anything fails the rapist will blame Biden or Obama.
An ice cream inside a cake? How on earth do they do that?
rothko • August 16, 2025 12:42 PM BST
European leaders did nothing in 3 and a half years to end the war. They’ve had to follow Trump
Ukrainians want the war to end and for that to happen there will have to do a deal
They are slowly losing the war and have lost a generation of young men
Conscripts are fleeing
I don’t know what counts as a crappy deal but you’d have to be a special sort of stupid to think
they will get all their territory back. Perhaps cede the Donbas which they were bombing before the war anyway
Well, the deal that Russia demands. To be given de jure control over territory that Russia cannot even take militarily. To have a Russian puppet installed in Kyiv to have Ukrainian identity destroyed from within. To have the Ukrainian military shrunk to tiny pieces so that Russia can have another, far easier go next time if something goes wrong with their puppet.
European leaders did nothing in 3 and a half years to end the war. They’ve had to follow Trump
Ukrainians want the war to end and for that to happen there will have to do a deal
They are slowly losing the war and have lost a generation of young men
Conscripts are fleeing
I don’t know what counts as a crappy deal but you’d have to be a special sort of stupid to think
they will get all their territory back. Perhaps cede the Donbas which they were bombing before the war anyway
Well, the deal that Russia demands. To be given de jure control over territory that Russia cannot even take militarily. To have a Russian puppet installed in Kyiv to have Ukrainian identity destroyed from within. To have the Ukrainian military shrunk to tiny pieces so that Russia can have another, far easier go next time if something goes wrong with their puppet.
Also...
Perhaps cede the Donbas which they were bombing before the war anyway
Have you seen pictures of the Donbas after all those years of supposed bombing from Ukraine and what it looks like from Russia's shorter time of indiscrimate "liberation" and looting?
Perhaps cede the Donbas which they were bombing before the war anyway
Have you seen pictures of the Donbas after all those years of supposed bombing from Ukraine and what it looks like from Russia's shorter time of indiscrimate "liberation" and looting?
And regarding:
I don’t know what counts as a crappy deal but you’d have to be a special sort of stupid to think they will get all their territory back.
Ukraine and its European partners have for a very long time now signalled that they'd be very willing to let Russia have de facto control over whatever territory Russia controls militarily. Ukraine does not block some peace deal or ceasefire because they have ambitions to retake all their territory. Not at all. ....but Russia literally demands de jure land, among other inconveivable things, that Ukraine continues to defend and which Russia has failed to conquer and will likely continue to fail to conquer for quite a while yet.
I don’t know what counts as a crappy deal but you’d have to be a special sort of stupid to think they will get all their territory back.
Ukraine and its European partners have for a very long time now signalled that they'd be very willing to let Russia have de facto control over whatever territory Russia controls militarily. Ukraine does not block some peace deal or ceasefire because they have ambitions to retake all their territory. Not at all. ....but Russia literally demands de jure land, among other inconveivable things, that Ukraine continues to defend and which Russia has failed to conquer and will likely continue to fail to conquer for quite a while yet.
The rapist has almost certainly made things worse by crawling to Putin.
https://americandebunk.com/2024/12/15/the-trump-is-a-rpist-hoax/
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End of Ukraine war 'closer than ever' thanks to Trump, says Starmer
Putin told Trump that he would end the war if Ukraine surrenders all of the Donetsk region to Russia
Aug 16, 2025 -- 2:36PM, yak hunt wrote:
The rapist has almost certainly made things worse by crawling to Putin.
Biden left last year, do keep up
Aug 16, 2025 -- 3:43PM, JerryHatrick wrote:
Putin told Trump that he would end the war if Ukraine surrenders all of the Donetsk region to Russia
Was that all or were there additional demands?
Something like Putin not having had dropped his core demands regarding e. g. Ukrainian sovereign statehood as per
https://www.ft.com/content/6b0b4912-9438-4de0-aebe-2a8dd804cbab
maybe?
https://www.ft.com/content/6b0b4912-9438-4de0-aebe-2a8dd804cbab
maybe?
Ukraine and its European partners have for a very long time now signalled that they'd be very willing to let Russia have de facto control over whatever territory Russia controls militarily
thats just not true
the Ukraine position is that they will not consider discussing ceding land until they are across the table negotiating a peace deal. Ive never seen Zelensky state that he is willing to let Russia have control over conquered lands
can you provide the quote ?
thats just not true
the Ukraine position is that they will not consider discussing ceding land until they are across the table negotiating a peace deal. Ive never seen Zelensky state that he is willing to let Russia have control over conquered lands
can you provide the quote ?
Maybe first do some own basic research or at least first ask me for some sort of source before saying something is not true? E. g. here from April
Diplomatic means may be the only way to eventually return some Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine, President Volodymyr Zelensky said during a working visit to Chernihiv on April 3.
Russia now occupies about 20$ of Ukraine. Russian forces control parts of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson oblasts, and have also occupied Crimea since the peninsula's illegal annexation in 2014.
Ukraine will never recognize the occupied territories as Russian, Zelensky told a group of entrepreneurs in Chernihiv.
"These are Ukrainian territories ... this is one of the main red lines for us, in any case, this is a temporary occupation of territories," he said.
A just peace will be achieved when Ukraine's territorial integrity is restored, Zelensky said, but this may involve a lengthy diplomatic process.
"But if it is possible to find a compromise so that the return of these territories occurs over time through diplomatic means, I think that, probably, as far as some territories are concerned, this will be the only way," he said.
https://kyivindependent.com/diplomacy-may-be-only-way-to-restore-occupied-territories-zelensky-says/
Or from December
"We do have to find diplomatic solutions," he said, adding that liberation by force could be considered when Ukraine is strong enough to prevent new aggression by Russia.
The statement aligns with a recent rhetoric shift in Kyiv as Moscow's forces keep advancing in the east, and the future of Western support is uncertain under Donald Trump's upcoming presidency.
Zelensky had long been adamant about Ukraine's full territorial integrity as a key cornerstone of any peace deal. His more recent comments show a willingness to defer the status of occupied territories in exchange for entry into NATO while not recognizing Russian occupation as legitimate.
https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-liberate-territories/
And very recently Merz presented a five point plan that he, Zelenskyy and other European leaders had worked out, which contained
Third, Ukraine will only be prepared to negotiate on territorial issues if the so-called “contact line” is the starting point, while ruling out legal recognition of Russia’s claim on Ukrainian territory.
https://www.politico.eu/article/friedrich-merz-donald-trump-largely-share-europe-position-ukraine-russia-war/
I. e. Ukraine is very willing to talk territory, but it simply will not legally recognise territory as Russian as a condition to even start peace talks. Especially so territory that, again, Russia demands to be given even though Russia continues to be unable to take that land through force.
Diplomatic means may be the only way to eventually return some Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine, President Volodymyr Zelensky said during a working visit to Chernihiv on April 3.
Russia now occupies about 20$ of Ukraine. Russian forces control parts of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson oblasts, and have also occupied Crimea since the peninsula's illegal annexation in 2014.
Ukraine will never recognize the occupied territories as Russian, Zelensky told a group of entrepreneurs in Chernihiv.
"These are Ukrainian territories ... this is one of the main red lines for us, in any case, this is a temporary occupation of territories," he said.
A just peace will be achieved when Ukraine's territorial integrity is restored, Zelensky said, but this may involve a lengthy diplomatic process.
"But if it is possible to find a compromise so that the return of these territories occurs over time through diplomatic means, I think that, probably, as far as some territories are concerned, this will be the only way," he said.
https://kyivindependent.com/diplomacy-may-be-only-way-to-restore-occupied-territories-zelensky-says/
Or from December
"We do have to find diplomatic solutions," he said, adding that liberation by force could be considered when Ukraine is strong enough to prevent new aggression by Russia.
The statement aligns with a recent rhetoric shift in Kyiv as Moscow's forces keep advancing in the east, and the future of Western support is uncertain under Donald Trump's upcoming presidency.
Zelensky had long been adamant about Ukraine's full territorial integrity as a key cornerstone of any peace deal. His more recent comments show a willingness to defer the status of occupied territories in exchange for entry into NATO while not recognizing Russian occupation as legitimate.
https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-liberate-territories/
And very recently Merz presented a five point plan that he, Zelenskyy and other European leaders had worked out, which contained
Third, Ukraine will only be prepared to negotiate on territorial issues if the so-called “contact line” is the starting point, while ruling out legal recognition of Russia’s claim on Ukrainian territory.
https://www.politico.eu/article/friedrich-merz-donald-trump-largely-share-europe-position-ukraine-russia-war/
I. e. Ukraine is very willing to talk territory, but it simply will not legally recognise territory as Russian as a condition to even start peace talks. Especially so territory that, again, Russia demands to be given even though Russia continues to be unable to take that land through force.
theres nothing in what you have posted that supports the statement that Ukraine and its European partners have for a very long time now signalled that they'd be very willing to let Russia have de facto control over whatever territory Russia controls militarily
infact the opposite E.G
Ukraine will never recognize the occupied territories as Russian, Zelensky told a group of entrepreneurs in Chernihiv.
A just peace will be achieved when Ukraine's territorial integrity is restored, Zelensky said, but this may involve a lengthy diplomatic process
Third, Ukraine will only be prepared to negotiate on territorial issues if the so-called “contact line” is the starting point, while ruling out legal recognition of Russia’s claim on Ukrainian territory
Zelensky has mentioned compromise but until they get to a starting point then that needs to be fleshed out
There was talk of peace keeping force but that never got traction
infact the opposite E.G
Ukraine will never recognize the occupied territories as Russian, Zelensky told a group of entrepreneurs in Chernihiv.
A just peace will be achieved when Ukraine's territorial integrity is restored, Zelensky said, but this may involve a lengthy diplomatic process
Third, Ukraine will only be prepared to negotiate on territorial issues if the so-called “contact line” is the starting point, while ruling out legal recognition of Russia’s claim on Ukrainian territory
Zelensky has mentioned compromise but until they get to a starting point then that needs to be fleshed out
There was talk of peace keeping force but that never got traction
Please be mindful of de facto control and de jure control. What you quoted as "infact the opposite" is about de jure control when I explicitly wrote about de facto control.
Ukraine has very evidently, as shown, signalled that they'd be willing to give de facto control over territories to Russia in exchange for a ceasefire and eventual peace deal. They'd simply not give up de jure control of the territories (plus some Russia has not even conquered) as a precondition for even ceasefire talks like Russia demands incredibly unreasonably. Instead, Ukraine would like to keep the option open of regaining de facto control through diplomacy if e. g. Russia stops being a fascist, russian supremacist dictatorship.
I. e. Ukraine would be willing to freeze, or actually even entirely stop, the military part of conflict at the front line.
Russia wants to be handed de jure control over territory they cannot even take militarily. Territory that is strategically important for the defence of the rest of Ukraine if Russia wants to have another go as re-enacting its empire. Along with Russia demanding a puppet government and a demilitarisation of Ukraine.
...Ukraine and its European partners are not the ones preventing a ceasefire and peace here.
Russia wants to be handed de jure control over territory they cannot even take militarily. Territory that is strategically important for the defence of the rest of Ukraine if Russia wants to have another go as re-enacting its empire. Along with Russia demanding a puppet government and a demilitarisation of Ukraine.
...Ukraine and its European partners are not the ones preventing a ceasefire and peace here.
Putin choosing trump as a fixer of choice is not
really helpful to Ukraine.
But where oh where are United nations these days.
They seem about as effective of their former incarnation
the league of nations.
Of course there was always likely potential failure
when security council members were causing the disputes.
really helpful to Ukraine.
But where oh where are United nations these days.
They seem about as effective of their former incarnation
the league of nations.
Of course there was always likely potential failure
when security council members were causing the disputes.
Ukraine had also repeatedly urged for an unconditional ceasefire. Only for Russia to of course not pick the offer up.
Is President Trump a plant? He seems to be "infatuated" with mad Putin despite being "jilted" several times. I've not read any of this Ukraine peace-talk palava. I hope a cease fire does materialise for the sake of the ordinary Ukrainians.
I thought Meadows thread might be quite active tonight with the discussions ongoing.
Are all the TDR boys having a night off until they see what happens?
Are all the TDR boys having a night off until they see what happens?
Are all the forumites waiting to get their scripts emailed to them? Tufton st?
Maybe Meadows will start a new thread about Trumps "hopper" tomorrow.
Maybe Meadows will start a new thread about Trumps "hopper" tomorrow.
How do we know you're not getting your orders from Tufton st?
"Russia wants to be handed de jure control over territory they cannot even take militarily"
Putin has the North Korean army to fall back on Edy , What has Zalenko left ? The press gang business is not going too Well Edy
are Germany willing to Commit thousands of Soldiers , Poland ? Where are the boots on the Ground coming from Edy ?
Trump will not Send Soldiers , Uk has fook all Soldiers Would not fill wembley Stadium and TBH Homeland security is probably more of a threat than Russia
So what do we do threaten him with Nukes ? Over land that has been been disputed for years ? Russia will not Accept Nato troops in Ukraine ,Zalenko would love them in
saves his Skin , Whats the resolution Edy leaving your Hate for Russia out of your Answer ?
Putin has the North Korean army to fall back on Edy , What has Zalenko left ? The press gang business is not going too Well Edy
are Germany willing to Commit thousands of Soldiers , Poland ? Where are the boots on the Ground coming from Edy ?
Trump will not Send Soldiers , Uk has fook all Soldiers Would not fill wembley Stadium and TBH Homeland security is probably more of a threat than Russia
So what do we do threaten him with Nukes ? Over land that has been been disputed for years ? Russia will not Accept Nato troops in Ukraine ,Zalenko would love them in
saves his Skin , Whats the resolution Edy leaving your Hate for Russia out of your Answer ?
Russia having North Korea to fall back on has not gotten them the heavily fortified land in Donezk that Russia desperately wants to be given so that they have a far easier time advancing to the rest of Ukraine.
Ukraine knows it would be in a vastly inferior defensive position if they gave up the axis of their defence that they've been building up for a decade. If Ukraine just gives that up, it makes their defence much harder and their requirement for troops much bigger as they have to defend far less fortified, more open land.
Ukraine knows it would be in a vastly inferior defensive position if they gave up the axis of their defence that they've been building up for a decade. If Ukraine just gives that up, it makes their defence much harder and their requirement for troops much bigger as they have to defend far less fortified, more open land.
The only way Ukraine would give that very important axis of defence up imo, would be if they believed they had rock solid guarantees that western soldiers would come for them when Russia advances once more.
What do you feel is my "hate for Russia" btw.? What have I written that's untrue or even terribly unfair towards poor little Russia?
The best solution is to somehow get Putin to accept a freeze of the conflict at the front line. This could e. g. be promoted by Trump finally not chickening out like Biden always used to. To finally act on an ultimatum.
Not by gifting Russia land that will make the rest of the war easier for Russia.
Not by gifting Russia land that will make the rest of the war easier for Russia.
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