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irishone
23 Apr 23 09:49
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Date Joined: 22 Sep 06
| Topic/replies: 58,072 | Blogger: irishone's blog
Everybody knew that the British loved to conquer lots of countries for their precious empire. It's not until somebody sits down and actually counts all of them that we realize just how many. Historian Stuart Laycock was happy to volunteer for the job and presents his findings in a new book All the Countries We've Ever Invaded: And the Few We Never Got Round To. The book stays true to its title and finds in a survey of 200 of the world's countries through that, in one shape or form, Great Britain has invaded all but 22 of them. That amounts to about 90 percent of the world's countries.

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The British Have Invaded 90 Percent of the Countries on Earth
Everybody knew that the British loved to conquer lots of countries for their precious empire. It's not until somebody sits down and actually counts all of them that we realize just how many.

By Adam Clark Estes

NOVEMBER 5, 2012
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This article is from the archive of our partner .
Everybody knew that the British loved to conquer lots of countries for their precious empire. It's not until somebody sits down and actually counts all of them that we realize just how many. Historian Stuart Laycock was happy to volunteer for the job and presents his findings in a new book All the Countries We've Ever Invaded: And the Few We Never Got Round To. The book stays true to its title and finds in a survey of 200 of the world's countries through that, in one shape or form, Great Britain has invaded all but 22 of them. That amounts to about 90 percent of the world's countries.

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It's easy to scratch your head at this figure. In fact, it's encouraged. How on Earth could the Brits even have time to invade all those countries? We know that "sun never sets on the British Empire" slogan, but this is ridiculous. In a review, The Telegraph's Jasper Copping walks through Laycock's methodology, and it sounds like the author took some liberties with the definition of "invasion." Or at least, he defined it pretty broadly. In order to count for an invasion in Laycock's book, the British only needed to achieve "some sort of military presence in the territory -- however transitory -- either through force, the threat of force, negotiation or payment," Copping explains."Incursions by British pirates, privateers or armed explorers have also been included, provided they were operating with the approval of their government."

Well in that case, we've got a pretty good runner up candidate for the busiest empire award: The United States. Measuring the extent of America's presence around the world is a tricky challenge, one that disserves a book of its own. After all, to really to the task justice, you'd have to take into account not only boots-on-the-ground military invasions but all of the soft power that the U.S. uses to look after its interests abroad. But sticking to Laycock's formula as closely as we can, Department of Defense records show that the U.S. has military personnel of some kind in a whopping 153 countries around the world. That's a pretty heft majority of the 190 countries that the U.S. maintains diplomatic relations with. Though that presence is small in some of those countries -- there's only one troop in Gabon -- it's a presence.
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Report irishone April 24, 2023 9:31 PM BST
In 1171, Henry II decided to invade Ireland with a big army to invoke the Laudabiliter, a bull passed some years ago to invade Ireland for church-reform reasons. He decided to do so after papal commissioners headed his way to issue a condemnation for Becket's murder.
Report irishone April 24, 2023 9:32 PM BST
Most of Ireland gained independence from the United Kingdom following the Anglo-Irish War in the early 20th century. Initially formed as a Dominion called the Irish Free State in 1922, the Republic of Ireland became a fully independent nation state following the passage of the Republic of Ireland Act in 1949.
Report irishone April 24, 2023 9:32 PM BST
Most of Ireland gained independence from the United Kingdom following the Anglo-Irish War in the early 20th century. Initially formed as a Dominion called the Irish Free State in 1922, the Republic of Ireland became a fully independent nation state following the passage of the Republic of Ireland Act in 1949.
Report irishone April 24, 2023 9:33 PM BST
800 years of british rule ......time to feck off and leave us alone
Report irishone April 24, 2023 9:35 PM BST
Who helped Ireland during the Famine?
Private Relief Efforts

Most fund-raising, however, took place in the wake of the second, more devastating appearance of the potato blight in 1846. Calcutta sent approximately £16,500 in 1847, while Bombay sent £3,000. The Society of Friends, or Quakers, first became involved with the Irish Famine in November 1846.
Report peckerdunne April 24, 2023 9:36 PM BST
Ilius, per quem Reges regnant
Report casemoney April 24, 2023 9:38 PM BST
What I read says RICH FARMERS  PA, LAND OWNERS , selling food to Europe , I know about the Tennant farmers ,So who  is this mob RICH LAND OWNERS ? I don't understand that ..
Report peckerdunne April 24, 2023 9:48 PM BST
Azovs, Irish Azovs.
Report casemoney April 24, 2023 9:57 PM BST
Azov Skangers IMO , Be careful Peck , EDY will be straight on Grin
Report Foinavon April 24, 2023 10:34 PM BST
In 1171, Henry II decided to invade Ireland with a big army to invoke the Laudabiliter,

Henry II, born in France, spoke French, died in France. Reigned a century after the Norman conquest when the English were enslaved as serfs by the Norman barons. Over 800 years ago and you are going to hold that against us. You sure bear a grudge Cry
Report lfc1971 April 24, 2023 10:41 PM BST
south Ireland  is not an independent country
and never has been one and won’t be until
the likes of the Iris bigot fks off has no right to live and work in Britain
Report lfc1971 April 24, 2023 10:47 PM BST
I’m not concerned about what happened 1000 years ago
It’s the likes of hostile and violent people and ungrateful
people living in this country today … because if they have
the mindset of the Iris bigot that sort of person we can do without
Report mitolo April 24, 2023 10:57 PM BST
pecker. what did i write that is untrue? as i said, you prefer assertion to argument. im off now. nobody has contradicted what i wrote

qed. you intellectually deficient wanchor
Report lfc1971 April 24, 2023 11:04 PM BST
I fairness to pecker he’s not intellectually deficient , not by a long way

but he is Irish and a nationalist - and that is a very narrow view and everything is seen through that prism
Report lfc1971 April 24, 2023 11:09 PM BST
pecker is a clever person , but Irish nationalism is ingrained through the schools and churches
politically , and culturally , every aspect of life from the time from a very early age
And very very few diverge from that
Report casemoney April 25, 2023 1:48 AM BST
Irish nationalism is ingrained through the schools and churches

Give it another Few Years , it will be more diverse
Report casemoney April 25, 2023 2:23 AM BST
My Father came from a family of 14  Rural Eire Born 85 Years ago ,Not a pot to pish in ,They ended up in a Lovely little Cottage as it turned out

His words Regarding the Local well to  Farming Community "They would not give you the Steam off their Pish "  Maybe they  Descended

From the 19th Century Food exporters , who according to PA never existed
Report casemoney April 25, 2023 2:25 AM BST
He is dead 10 years this Thursday , I miss him .. Sad
Report Kelly April 25, 2023 3:56 AM BST
Pre Famine Ireland had a population of over 8 million in its 32 counties .

Post Famine Ireland had a population of around 6 million .

Approximately 2 million either emigrated or died , the relative figures hard to be sure about .

Re Ellis island , which closed in 1954 , my grandfather went though there in 1906 , we have a record of that .  My grandmother joined him 3 months later , but did not go through Ellis Island as she travelled second class. They came back to Ireland in 1907, my grandmother hated New York and missed her large family connection back in Belfast .

My grandfather worked in Harland and Wolff when they were building the Titanic , he worked at installing the engines .  He had to "leave" the site several times when the Protestant blood was "up" , usually approaching the 12th July . He was a low profile catholic , with an English surname , Edward being his chritian name .

A friend of his , a true blue Protestant left H & W after a work mate asked him why he was seen on the Falls road ( he was courting a catholic girl , whom he married subsequently ) . Following that question he was scared of his life and he went to work in England where he lived until retirement .

A good friend of ours ( Protestant) was courting a local catholic girl ( sister of one of my 2 walking to school schoolmates) .  He too worked in the shipyard starting out as a rivet boy .  When his high profile Orange  mother discovered about the relationship she ordered his brothers to beat the sh*t out of him , and he too had to leave H & W to go work in England . He is still married to that girl , played soccer for a few division 1 teams ( Premier then ) in England , came back to Belfast when his soccer career was over , and has made a lot of money here .  But he was forced to leave initially because he was courting a Taig .

Life was not all a bed of roses living , working in Northern Ireland over the years .
Report irishone April 25, 2023 6:38 AM BST
Are the British to blame for the Irish famine?


The landed proprietors in Ireland were held in Britain to have created the conditions that led to the famine.

However, it was asserted that the British parliament since the Act of Union of 1800 was partly to blame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)#:~:text=The%20landed%20proprietors%20in%20Ireland,1800%20was%20partly%20to%20blame.
Report irishone April 25, 2023 6:42 AM BST
Sultan Abdülmecid I of the Ottoman Empire originally offered to send £10,000 but was asked either by British diplomats or his own ministers to reduce it to £1,000 to avoid donating more than the Queen.
Report irishone April 25, 2023 6:45 AM BST
Tory government
Historian F. S. L. Lyons characterised the initial response of the British government to the early, less severe phase of the famine as "prompt and relatively successful".[89] Confronted by widespread crop failure in November 1845, the Prime Minister, Sir Robert Peel, purchased £100,000 worth of maize and cornmeal secretly from America[90] with Baring Brothers initially acting as his agents. The government hoped that they would not "stifle private enterprise" and that their actions would not act as a disincentive to local relief efforts. Due to poor weather conditions, the first shipment did not arrive in Ireland until the beginning of February 1846.[91] The initial shipments were of unground dried kernels, but the few Irish mills in operation were not equipped for milling maize and a long and complicated milling process had to be adopted before the meal could be distributed.[92] In addition, before the cornmeal could be consumed, it had to be "very much" cooked again, or eating it could result in severe bowel complaints.[91] Due to its yellow colour, and initial unpopularity, it became known as "Peel's brimstone".[93]

In October 1845, Peel moved to repeal the Corn Laws—tariffs on grain which kept the price of bread high—but the issue split his party and he had insufficient support from his own colleagues to push the measure through. He resigned the premiership in December, but the opposition was unable to form a government and he was re-appointed.[94] In March, Peel set up a programme of public works in Ireland,[95] but the famine situation worsened during 1846, and the repeal of the Corn Laws in that year did little to help the starving Irish; the measure split the Conservative Party, leading to the fall of Peel's ministry.[96] On 25 June, the second reading of the government's Irish Coercion Bill was defeated by 73 votes in the House of Commons by a combination of Whigs, Radicals, Irish Repealers, and protectionist Conservatives. Peel was forced to resign as prime minister on 29 June, and the Whig leader, Lord John Russell, became prime minister.[97]
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 8:03 AM BST
Interesting to hear of a young couple leaving Ireland for America
and then returning home again and living happily  for the rest of their lives
And we hear also of young Protestant and Catholics dating and getting married all those years ago
and also living happily and well in N Ireland , oh and after returning from living in England
America and England and yet it seems these young people preferred to return to live and work
and live their lives happily in NI .. that’s interesting

However still no answer to the questions,

We have a family evicted - what happened to that family ?

Deaths , how many people died at that time , and the cause of death

( it’s important to note as Kelly’s post highlights people left Ireland
for as far away as America , and returned .. and also England
So then as now there was movement especially  between these islands
of thousands , millions of people who will be missing from any population
count or census .. that’s why it is important to know - how were registered
as dying ..and the cause of death . Just in case we are counting the living
amongst the dead ..

Maybe someone can answer ….
Report irishone April 25, 2023 8:12 AM BST
good morning LFC ....just for you ....

Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 8:39 AM BST
So far we have heard of young couples making a conscious
decision that they preferred to live and work and get married
and raise their families  in N Ireland instead of America or England,
or indeed any other part of these island - including south Ireland …
Interesting to hear .
Report irishone April 25, 2023 8:45 AM BST
like a dog with a bone  !
Report dustybin April 25, 2023 8:51 AM BST
Irish, you really do suffer from little man syndrome.
Constantly obsessing over Britain while Britain never even looks on at Ireland.
Most people genuinely neither know or care a thing about Ireland, and here you are everyday jumping up attempting to gain some kind of recognition.
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 8:58 AM BST
Typical mentality dusty , Iris thinks it’s all about him

Oh and it’s noticeable that Kelly all these years later is still living
his life after a long and prosperous and secure life happily and comfortably in N Ireland
Although of course that doesn’t seem to register or stop him whining
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 10:19 AM BST
Here’s an account from someone at that time :
My great grandfather Roger Cantwell and his family
managed to survive the Irish famine that began in 1845
When the potato famine swept through Ireland I was 30
and my wife Mary ( McDonald) 33 . We lived in a small cabin ,
value 6 shillings , where I was one of 30 farm labourers on the estate
of George Fawcett . At that time we had 5 children .
In oct 1845 a dense fog settled over our potato fields and the crop was ruined
Over the next two years life was miserable, we were always hungry and lost weight
In an effort to earn some money I joined a public works labour force sponsored by
the British building roads and digging ditches that seemed to have little purpose
It did pay 10 pence per day (12 pence equals one shilling ) - almost double my salary
as a farm labourer .
By August 1846 many of my countrymen joined me in this endeavour as the labour force
increased fivefold to 560,000

In 1847 I was able to do some work again as the crop was finally healthy
We held on until June 1849 when George Fawcett esq hired agent Richard Wilson
to bring in a crew to destroy all the little cabins his tenants lived in
He did offer to pay our passage via ship, first to Liverpool ,
And eventually New York . Big of him
Our family survived until 1850 in temporary shelters when I put Bridget 12 , Thomas 10
Patrick 8 , Mary 7, on the boat Princeton with several relatives
We left Liverpool 6 months later and settled in Rochester NY , where our daughter Jennie
was born in 1856 , we came by boat that same year to Milwaukee where our youngest son
William was born .
Report peckerdunne April 25, 2023 10:49 AM BST
How's the head this morning Mitolo, have a wee sup on your way to the building site.
Report Kelly April 25, 2023 11:01 AM BST
lfc, my grandparents were very much the exception rather than the rule . Probably less than 5% of those who emigrated to America ever set foot again in Ireland.

Re having a happy and prosperous life in Northern Ireland , I would have had a much better life had we emigrated to Australia in the early 70's . My wife was very keen to go there with our children as she foresaw continuing hassle staying in the war zone that was Northern Ireland . Her best schoolmate friend did emigrate to Australia in 1973 and has had a hugely successful and prosperous life with her ( English , London) husband and 4 children .

That we survived intact was a tribute to our initiative rather than anything offered by the state which struggled hugely to offer living conditions on a par with the rest of the UK.

One schoolmate of mine , same teachers and subjects from age 10 until 21 , including university , emigrated to America in the sixties . That was after qualifying post university in another discipline in the same Dublin firm where I worked and studied after I graduated from the same university as him . He finished up as the highest paid executive in the USA ( official figures) around the turn of the last century . Anyone who can guess his official income within 10 million dollars per annum can assume the mantle of ace researcher . His father had to emigrate to America after being shot and left for dead in a ditch in South Armagh in the 1920's , but again against the tide came back to Ireland when that set of "Troubles" settled down .

What these stories tell is that people with ability can survive almost anything given normal luck . Painting the picture that success in whatever measure is down to the state is a ludicrous proposition . Native intelligence and education are the two most important attributes in my book , and a lot of us made progress without joining the "secret" ( and often sectarian by nature) organisations as prevalent here in days gone by .
Report peckerdunne April 25, 2023 11:07 AM BST
Mitolo smacks of cultural imperialism, with the superior English going into a country of sullen brutes and imposing their civilizing behaviors and institutions.

You think you are clever Mitolo but you are just another alcohol fuelled insolent bully of which I shall not waste my valuable time.
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 11:07 AM BST
The 19th century saw a huge growth in the population of Great Britain
The reason is not altogether clear , larger families , more children surviving infancy,
people living longer , immigration ..By the end of the century there were 3 times more
people than at the beginning . This ended up in a scramble for any job available , wages
were low barely above subsistence level and if men people were laid off there was no money
to fall back on . All these problems magnified in London were large houses were turned into
tenements and flats . In big once handsome houses 30 or more people of all ages may inhabit
a single room . Great wealth and extreme poverty lived side by side
an article published in 1849 describes a London street with a tidal ditch running through it
into which drains and sewers emptied - the only water the people in the street had to drink
Many cases of death by starvation and destitution were reported .
Many children were turned out of home and left to fend for themselves
In 1848 Lord Ashley referred to more than 30,000 naked filthy roaming lawless and deserted
children in and around the metropolis
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 11:13 AM BST
Kelly we all have relatives who have emigrated to Australia , and elsewhere
And many return to visit after living in Australia eg .. and are surprised and perplexed
at how well those of their family members and friends who didn’t leave and have prospered .in NI and GB ..
in the many years since they left
Report peckerdunne April 25, 2023 11:14 AM BST
It's nice that Kelly constructs his own arguments so beautifully and forwards accounts of his own family and their lives experience.
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 11:15 AM BST
I’ll be quite honest Kelly , I’m not particularly convinced
that you would have fared any better in Australia or America
or indeed anywhere else in the world .. you’ve done just fine
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 11:20 AM BST
Oh of course you might think that all that you have achieved is something
unusual … it’s not . It’s the story of the vast majority who have been fortunate to live
in the U.K. in the 50s, 60s, 70s … don’t allow yourself to think too highly of yourself
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 11:27 AM BST
Oh , and very many of us will have young relatives or friends who
went as far as Hong Kong whilst part of the British administration
after leaving uni and going to London to work in the city , and then Hong Kong
And made a lot of money … and yes that is thanks to the U.K. , they wern’t anything
Of course you could have done so yourself Kelly ? … but you didn’t
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 11:29 AM BST
Why not … if you’re so discontented and have such an
inflated opinion of your own abilities and worth ? …
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 11:31 AM BST
Doubtless that is a question Kelly will be unable to answer ..
despite his high opinion of himself …
Report Kelly April 25, 2023 11:34 AM BST
lfc , you have no idea of how it felt to live in a society where so many doors were closed to you because of where you went to church .

It pervaded life and limited opportunity at every turn .

My brother has 2 sons , both well educated and savvy . One lives in Belfast , the other in Dublin . Recently my brother asked the Dublin based son whether he would consider returning to Northern Ireland . The swift answer was " Are you mad? "

My cousin who lives in mid England now ( after living in Horsham , London for years) has 2 children . Her daughter has experienced the 45% trap associated with marriage in England ( divorced) , and her son left a very successful job with the most prominent financial firm in the UK to relocate to USA ( internal head hunting) . He still works for that firm in USA , 2 weeks after emigrating/ relocating he came up with the line " Mum , after 2 weeks here in the USA I will never ever work in England .  Chalk and cheese ."

Painting over rosy pictures of life here in the UK does not stand up to scrutiny when you actually listen to people  and discount the propaganda .
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 11:36 AM BST
Okey doke Never mind -Sometimes the question is more important than the answer , more revealing …
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 11:40 AM BST
Kelly we all have relatives who live all over the world
I’m not interested .. I’m asking you , about your decision to live in NI
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 11:45 AM BST
upside down thinking Kelly I certainly don’t think oh my relatives who went into banking in London
and then Hong Kong  is an example of terrible the U.K. .. certainly not
just the opposite ..
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 11:45 AM BST
Can you understand that ?…
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 11:49 AM BST
That was my cousin by the way who went to London and Hong Kong .. and made a lot of money
And he can be very very thankful … to the U.K.

Understand ?
Report Kelly April 25, 2023 11:53 AM BST
lfc , discontented I am not .  That is not to say however that I would not have fared well had I left NI . All friends and family of my experience who left NI did better financially than those who stayed here .  Whether or not the sum total of their life experience matched financial reward considerations is open to question , only the individual can answer that .

Those who went to England in particular always seemed more than happy to return for holidays and family events .  Those who are in USA and Australia look askance at how the UK has evolved over the last few decades . Their reportage , not mine .
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 12:06 PM BST
Of course people living in America or Australia might .. for some reason
you don’t make clear , look askance at how the U.K. has evolved .. in what way particularly ?

Oh and it’s possible many  living here in the U.K. might look askance at some of the changes in America ( and Australia I’m sure )
What exactly is so attractive about living and working in American … it’s not clear …
Report Kelly April 25, 2023 12:08 PM BST
lfc , I have close family connection with 2 people who worked in Hong Kong before the British were kicked out .

My cousins husband ran the local office for one of the largest global computer firms , he loved Hong Kong , ny cousin hated bringing up their 2 children ( their son is the one who now lives and works very happily in New York ) there .

My wifes cousin was the Asian director of another multi national , the yearly rent for his house there ( paid for by the firm ) was 100k .

But life was fairly artificial for both men  and their wives . And their children have few regrets about their various relocation , none hanker after return to there .
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 12:09 PM BST
And those who went to England .. and of course lived and worked there and remain in England
What’s the problem there .. specifically , and why are they not living somewhere else ..
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 12:13 PM BST
I know Hong Kong is not to everyone’s taste
If that isn’t suitable there was always England , Australia , N Zealand ,
Canada , America , if you’re so picky etc etc ..But  You stayed and
lived and worked in N Ireland … why ?
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 12:20 PM BST
Oh and you haven’t made clear .. why did your nephew say
working in America was like chalk and cheese compared to England
I’ve worked in both countries by the way - I don’t think you have
What was the difference ?
Report Kelly April 25, 2023 12:23 PM BST
My male cousin was also based in Hong Kong , via the British Army . He was heavily involved at the time of the "handover" by Chris Patton .

He now lives in Kent , and daily complaints revolve around traffic considerations and the fact that post Brexit he cannot get anyone to maintain his garden , they all went home in the wake of Brexit .

Facts , not propaganda . Pre Brexit he spent months happily in France , allied to "one day booze runs" . £25 return has escalated to £140 post Brexit for that latter activity . And medical considerations mean it is more dangerous to be spending time in France with no medical back up other than afforded by increasingly expensive insurance .

maybe Boris saw such developments in his heart of hearts when he digested the referendum implications .
Report Kelly April 25, 2023 12:27 PM BST
lfc ,the difference between my cousins work in New York versus in England is "the people" . " The Americans are much nicer to work with than the English "  . His words , not mine .
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 12:28 PM BST
Laugh Okey doke , living in England now I note and can’t get a gardener
We’ve heard it all , think we will leave it there for now
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 12:30 PM BST
Kelly you know it’s best to have a good memory

Those happen to be my words about when I was living in the states
Doubtless not everyone will agree with that , but I’m glad to see your nephew does .. word for word Grin
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 12:33 PM BST
Are you sure your nephew said that .. or did you read it in one of my posts once upon a time
if so it’s quite a coincidence Cool
Report Kelly April 25, 2023 12:34 PM BST
lfc , he is not my nephew , he grew up via various postings of his father ( married to my first cousin) around the world in various UK Army bases . He has experience of many places world wide .
Report Kelly April 25, 2023 12:37 PM BST
His own words lfc , he repeated them to me when he was back in the UK for his grandmothers funeral some years ago , ( my mothers youngest sister) .
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 12:38 PM BST
Yes of course your cousin
And those words of his about living and working in America
Exactly the same as mine ..  that’s nice , and quite a coincidence …
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 12:39 PM BST
Don’t you think ?
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 12:45 PM BST
Ok , I’ll take your word for it that your cousin said those words

Word for word really that I have .. on this forum .. about America , and Americans and living and working there

We can put it down to a happy coincidence Happy

We can leave it there
Report peckerdunne April 25, 2023 12:52 PM BST
Thank God for that Laugh
Report lfc1971 April 25, 2023 1:24 PM BST
Yes  , pecker ..it’s important to always take a close look
at anything an Irish nationalist says .. despite all the waffle
and get to the truth .. on and when they start  waffling - or telling fibs -it’s best to have a good
memory …just saying Happy
Report peckerdunne April 25, 2023 1:31 PM BST
Indeed listening to Therese Coffey is poo enough.
Report LoyalHoncho April 25, 2023 3:19 PM BST
King Canute started it off by invading England and calling himself English.  In Danish of course.
Report irishone April 25, 2023 3:24 PM BST
HonchoLaugh
Report dustybin April 25, 2023 5:00 PM BST
Mitolo might be an old soak but he's pretty close to the money.

Britain was known as a naval power not for its army. The BEF by WW1 was very small. Britain used to smash everyone on the seas.
The East India company was a private company that were encouraged to trade with British interests in cloth and tea and heroin etc with India, which came about after insurance companies like Lloyds appeared and Limited Liability meant people could invest in sea ventures worldwide, which became the stock market.
Report dustybin April 25, 2023 5:03 PM BST
It was us an the Dutch that made the world as we now know it
So suck it up buttercups
Report dustybin April 25, 2023 5:10 PM BST
Report LoyalHoncho April 25, 2023 6:14 PM BST
We never seem to learn.  The Dutch formed New Amsterdam then let the brits ( English really ) in who renamed it New York.  They then formed New England and then let all and sundry in and called it the U.S.A. enslaving the blacks and exterminating the natives- and see the mess they made of it.  Now we repeat the process over here letting anybody and their worst enemies in.  All in the name of democracy.  Food banks for the many, untold greed, wealth and riches for the few, who refuse to give a share for the betterment of their neighbour.
Report mitolo April 25, 2023 9:35 PM BST
when are the irish going to stop whingeing bout the british? we are the best thing that ever hapenned to them. we gave them our language, which has been of great benefit. they still drone on about the famine. ireland was full of fish, in the atlantic and its many lakes and rivers yet they never developed a fishing industry worthy of the name. instead the dopey buggers spent their lives wasting away while staring at the ground waiting for the holy spud to bloom. you could practically scoop fish up with your bare hands yet their children, all 98 of em in each hovel, starved

the brits were so bad tens of thousands of irishmen joined the british army. and when we left they fell upon each other as they always do and the appalling slaughter of the civil war was the result

they then created the nastiest most small-minded repressive catholic state in europe, and most sensible folk emigrated, as they always have. everything was banned- books tv plays contraception abortion while the priestly class abused children confined to orphanages by the state, in order to punish their mothers for the sin of being pregnant outside marriage

only with the admission to the civilising influence of the e.u. did things change and billions of free money dragged them from the 18th century into the 20th

pogue mahone
Report lapsy pa April 25, 2023 9:44 PM BST
as an aside it may be the smithfield tavern you were talking about on another thread,i remember it was almost on a corner from a lane and jammed alway even in the morning tho  30 years + ago
Report lapsy pa April 25, 2023 9:53 PM BST
i,m just being straight up and  no snidey thing but i was a publicians delight.
Report mesmerised April 25, 2023 11:42 PM BST
It is true you need to look closer to home and what you've done to yourselves before give the tired old Anti-British mantra a rest, the Church ruled Ireland with a iron fist, the Tuam scandal was shocking, selling babies to the US without the parents consent whilst hundreds of others died due to neglect, infections and severe malnutrition, to be buried in mass graves, those Nuns were evil.
Report LoyalHoncho April 26, 2023 2:29 AM BST
And we had social workers and councils who browbeat and bullied young unmarried mothers into handing over their babies, hundreds and hundreds of whom were packed off to the antipodes where so many lived lives of utter despair.
Not one nun involved.  And generations of politicians who saw and did nothing.  Not one irishman involved there either.
Try again bitter.
Report casemoney April 26, 2023 2:43 AM BST
Philomena  a dacent Film Loyal , I suggest you give it a watch if you missed it , sadly the tip of the Iceberg , As for  priests a stain on a Fine Country


That was sadly Exported World wide , Mainly over looked  By many , The tragedy still unfolding ...

But never mind these things happen , best forgotten ?
Report casemoney April 26, 2023 2:47 AM BST
I will add the Catholic Church not alone in Such Matters , The Cloak  of most religions presenting a path to the Innocent For many hundreds of years , and still does ..

Keep putting you 5ers in the Plate
Report irishone April 26, 2023 7:28 AM BST
awful bait and attempted deflection on here.

the thread is about the British Empire and how the British invaded 90% of the Worlds Countries....

why turn it in to criticising a poor little country like Ireland ?

ironic how the brits dont want to discuss the disgusting deeds of the british colonialists throughout the world
Report irishone April 26, 2023 7:31 AM BST
Iraq was created by the British Empire by amalgamating three Ottoman provinces (Mosul, Baghdad and Basra) under the Sykes-Picot agreement—an agreement which made sure to keep oil-rich Mosul out of the equally colonial hands of the French government. The British authorities then placed favourable elites in charge of the governance of this racially and religiously divided region.
Report irishone April 26, 2023 7:33 AM BST
Perhaps he was suggesting that it was legal, at least under British colonial law, for Britain’s fearsome East India Company to operate as the single biggest drug-running cartel in history, flooding the Chinese market with the highly addictive narcotic subject in order to alleviate its trade deficit with Imperial China—who had no desire to purchase pianos and solid-silver British cutlery. You might even think it contrary to the British idea of “fair play” that the Qing administration attempted to ban this noxious and debilitating scourge from being sold to its citizens, and believe it only fair that Queen and Parliament sanctioned its great navy to batter the Chinese into submission on the matter with their vastly superior military weaponry and prowess.
Report irishone April 26, 2023 7:34 AM BST
It’s a little-known fact that, during the 1919 Versailles Peace Conference, the then burgeoning East Asian colonial power Japan was able to extract enormous concessions from the British, French and American governments by requesting that “racial equality” be included in the membership requirements of the League of Nations—which none of the three Western powers could possibly agree, to, of course, because racial inequality was at the very foundations of their international (and domestic) modus operandi.
Report irishone April 26, 2023 7:40 AM BST
How ironic is the anti-immigration rhetoric......   “all these migrants want to come here”

Well why not ?  The biggest mugs on the planet fecked it up !

The Western world is richer, more stable, whereas all too many African and Asian countries exist in a state of war,famine or impoverished chaos......

It couldn't be the long-term implications of British colonialism ....... could it ?
Report dustybin April 26, 2023 8:16 AM BST
All this damn hand wringing when history shows the dominant power always does things that others can find fault with, it’s the nature of things.
The alternative is this ridiculous age we are entering where everyone has guilt forced upon them, everyone has a ‘voice’ and no fker agrees with anything.
We enter periods of hung Parliament at best or decaying democracies at worst, that ultimately result in authoritarian states, that then abuse their own population and then other countries.

It’s getting so tedious all this bitterness because Ireland advanced zero.
Report dustybin April 26, 2023 8:21 AM BST
You can find all this kind of pony on the internet, it generally ends with support of China (having received financing from them)
China, the country with a population crushed under a ruling elite who neither forego world debt nor will limit expansion and have one of the worst human rights records on the planet where if enterprise is suspected to be become too successful and a threat to the CCP they get nobbled and the CEO vanishes.
Report dustybin April 26, 2023 8:44 AM BST
These books come out regularly btw, I’ve got many myself, they are written to invoke edgy views of history as a selling point on subjects that have already gathered vast amounts of copy.

It was gunboat diplomacy under the British, as that was the cutting edge tech of the day, but don’t fool yourself into thinking others wouldn’t have done much the same had they the chance.
If you look at the historical world ocean currents you’ll generally find the countries on the end of them fared worse, because even before steam power those with sails went to dominate those without.
It’s pointless attempting to turn over ever rock to placate views, but just look at the foreign policies of all nations, they are for self interest based on what the other can gain if they have a dog in the fight themselves.
It was the age of the Industrial Revolution under the mighty British, but now it’s a different epoch, it’s the digital Information Age that imposes the will of those in power, America.

I don’t hear criticism of the frankly pathetic nature of the Irish stance in the subjugation of other European countries by acting like a smack house for tech companies to steal money from other treasuries.
Report edy April 26, 2023 8:56 AM BST
Probably because you guys aren't in the EU anymore and before that were interested in keeping your own very carefully spun web of tax havens. The British web of tax havens that enables more corporate tax dodging than anyone else.

The EU countries aren't thrilled by what Ireland does.
Report irishone April 26, 2023 2:14 PM BST
Socialist Worker
News & AnalysisAbout SWP
Features
Cruel Britannia—the bloody truth about the British Empire
This article is over 2 years, 7 months old
Isabel Ringrose tells the terrible truth about the British Empire that Boris Johnson expects us to salute
Saturday 29 August 2020 Issue 2720
Songs like Land of Hope and Glory hide the bloody reality of Britains empire
Songs like Land of Hope and Glory hide the bloody reality of Britain’s empire (Pic: Socialist Worker)
America and the Caribbean – How Britain profited from barbarism

The songs Land of Hope and Glory and Rule Britannia will be played without lyrics at the BBC Proms this year. This led Boris Johnson to call for an end to a “bout of self recrimination and wetness” about British history.

The bloody legacy of the British Empire is not something to be proud of. Through vicious military conquest, it used enslavement, massacres, famines and partitions to create profit.

It was the largest empire ever known, covering a quarter of the world and colonising hundreds of millions of people. The Union flag represents its barbarity.

Its first colonies were established in Jamestown, north America, in 1607. Upon arrival, the British convinced the chief of the local Powhatan tribe that his people should be put to work supplying the colonisers with food.


The Powhatans rose up in revenge, but were butchered. Their numbers fell from 8,000 to under 1,000.

Britain was responsible for the transportation of 3.5 million African slaves to the Americas, a third of all those transported across the Atlantic.

The most profitable West Indian colonies were part of the Empire. Some, such as Barbados and Jamaica, had vicious slave codes to deter rebellions.

Plantations grew cotton, tobacco and sugar cane. By 1750, sugar made up a fifth of all European imports. Slave merchants pocketed £12 million on the sale of African people.

Between 1761 and 1807 British ports banked £60 million—around £8 billion today—from slave sales.

Britain’s rulers viewed slaves as subhuman. Slavers killed over 130 slaves on the Zong ship in 1781—just so they could claim insurance.

Life on plantations was brutal. A third of newly-imported slaves died within three years.
Report irishone April 26, 2023 2:14 PM BST
You were right dusty
Report mesmerised April 26, 2023 2:30 PM BST
Britain was responsible for the transportation of 3.5 million African slaves to the Americas, a third of all those transported across the Atlantic.


African countries and their leaders were responsible for selling the slaves.
Report dustybin April 26, 2023 2:33 PM BST
The Portugese and Spanish did far more damage in America than the British did.

In fact in the 1812 war the British armed the natives.

That was the war that Britain took The Whitehouse and burned it out.
Hurrah
Report LoyalHoncho April 26, 2023 3:12 PM BST
Am always impressed by your grasp of real history irish.
Off subject but knowing your liking for the Punchestown festival have a look at this.
https://www.simonnott.co.uk/blog-racing/ak-bets-at-punchestown-festival-2023-tuesday
Report mitolo April 26, 2023 5:19 PM BST
iris quoting the socialist worker says it all. its also an oxymoron. my previous anti-irish post was really directed at him. that post is entirely a reaction to the poisonous anti-brit threads started by ignorant gobsh1te iris. it was intended to annoy

why does this monomaniac fool have to advertise his loathing on a public forum? im all for people posting whatever they like during the course of a wide-ranging discussion, and ive been scathing about britain meself. i dont like the religion of peace and love and have criticised its defenders many times but i dont constantly start threads attacking it.

this erbet does. hes read a couple of childrens orrible istory books and thinks he has a clue. he doesnt and its pointless and offensive. hence my similarly offensive effort

i aint anti-irish, as anyone who has had the misfortune of reading my late-night loony rambling will know. quite the reverse in fact

oiche mhaith
Report lapsy pa April 26, 2023 6:55 PM BST
tis la go mhaith as la is day and oiche is night, however know you have an affiliation with Ireland and a good attempt.

Most Irish aren't stupid enough to realise that a struggling England(i will leave out UK as certain factions are feckin pities altogether) is a bad thing, the arrogance and downright stupidity of johnson,erg was  amazing to witness and worse was the amount of backing.
Report irishone April 26, 2023 7:29 PM BST
Take a deep breath mitolo
Report moisok April 26, 2023 7:45 PM BST
It was a good job we got there first - imagine if the french and spanish had won Trafalgar??  Or Napoleon come to that.  Hitler would have marched right through France and we would be speaking franco/german.
OH hang on.  He did anyway haha
Only the brave pilots from the uk, our commonwealth and Poland stopped that though.
Report irishone April 26, 2023 10:35 PM BST
Unbelievable


British war crimes are acts committed by the armed forces of the United Kingdom that have violated the laws and customs of war since the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, from the Boer War to the War in Afghanistan (2001–2021). Such acts have included the summary executions of prisoners of war and unarmed shipwreck survivors, the use of excessive force during the interrogation of POWs and enemy combatants, and the use of violence against civilian non-combatants and their property.‌

As a further strategy, General Lord Kitchener ordered the creation of concentration camps – 45 for Afrikaners and 64 for Black Africans.

Of the 107,000 people interned in the camps, 27,927 Boer women and children died[15] as well as more than 14,000 Black Africans.[16]
Report irishone April 26, 2023 10:37 PM BST
The production and use of chemical weapons was strictly prohibited by the 1899 Hague Declaration Concerning Asphyxiating Gases and the 1907 Hague Convention on Land Warfare, which explicitly forbade the use of "poison or poisoned weapons" in warfare.[47][48]

Even so, the United Kingdom used a range of poison gases, originally chlorine and later phosgene, diphosgene and mustard gas. They also used relatively small amounts of the irritant gases chloromethyl chloroformate, chloropicrin, bromacetone and ethyl iodoacetate. Gases were frequently mixed, for example white star was the name given to a mixture of equal volumes of chlorine and phosgene, the chlorine helping to spread the denser but more toxic phosgene. Despite the technical developments, chemical weapons suffered from diminishing effectiveness as the war progressed because of the protective equipment and training which the use engendered on both sides. By 1918, a quarter of British artillery shells were filled with gas and the United Kingdom had produced around 25,400 tons of toxic chemicals.
Report dustybin April 27, 2023 8:12 AM BST
Irish preaching from his new book, the gospels of the hand wringer.
You go and shower them with love and see what happens, but take a basket for your head.
Report saddo April 27, 2023 9:58 AM BST
I don't understand why being born in a land of little consequence matters. I'm not particularly proud of being born in England, I had nowt to do with it.
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