D-Day for the Brexit shambles

Say thankyou

Brake*

No thankyou Kelly ?  tut tut

Free flow of goods … no thankyou Kelly ?

The beauty of it i think though Kelly it gives them no reason to stay out,ie their argument re EU laws, if they aren't in Stormont they cannot block what they are meant to be against.

Caught by the balls i'm hoping.

Hopefully the DUP can return to Stormont
they’ve achieved very important changes to the protocol

All very clever indeed  I must say. Protocol tweaked but unchanged in core substance.

DUP don't see it text until need to - call it the "windsor agreement", get Karl Saxe-Coburg to symbolically endorse it. Job done.  ( Instruction is - just be quiet and spin it to the hardline knuckle-draggers, most of NI supports protocol so deal with it).

Done deal - nobody will have the appetite to go around the houses again. DUP just have to get on with it..... no audience left.

the ‘ Windsor Framework ‘ I like that

Didnt they also say that they will allow the UK to tax beer in NI as they do in the rest of union?

Bravo! All hail the EU! They are so generous i almost want a second referendum

The protocol ( now the Windsor agreement )has been fundamentally altered
in very important practical ways

Sorry, apologies.  The Windsor Framework - supporting the NI Protocol.

Must say Sunak / VDL has shown very good political craft here. Ball is in DUP court - you need to sell this to survive.

Rishi before heading to parliament will have a nice cup of Green tea.

Rishi deserves it he’s done well , very well

Lots of sleepless nights and clandestine street meetings for Donaldson and Co . Elections in May , the clock is ticking .

Yes Kelly, indeed.  Instead of DUP 'prodding' (no pun intended) - and annoying everyone. What do they do - if they don't like it?  Snookered.  They really have to 'big it up' as a concession, if not - then politically in the sh1t.

So you're not interested in the agreement being fair WF you just
want a stick to hit those politicians you disagree with.

What's not fair about his it?

I'm sure the ballot box in May will be fair.

Every thing looks very fair,the dup complained they weren't able to get British produce,they are now, they complained about EU laws,they can now do something about it.

They should be ecstatic.

Bit rich coming from you Aka, but we'll let that go......

From a purely 'strategic' perspective this is beginning to look quite impressive from Sunak  / VDL

1. Gets some concessions from EU
2. Streamlines the working of the protocol - makes it better ( nearly as far as it can possibly go to safeguard two internal markets where one location needs to be in both)
3. Opens a "potential" Westminster veto of EU law in NI  ( theoretical, but still there)
4. But yet keeps EU law in NI so as not to impact EU Single Market and border with ROI  (ROI is not ok, then EU would not be ok)
5. Makes Johnson look incompetent - "fixing his mess"   ( and more astute than May, we can of course try to forget Truss)
6. Friendlier terms with EU - and still keeps ERG at bay
7. Could potentially further weaken / split ERG if hardliners still find this unacceptable
8. DUP need to realise the vast majority of people will see now this as the best possible solution ( concessions from both EU and UK) and they have no choice but to get on-side. They need to learn - negotiations involve compromise, or they are not negotiations. Every time they adopt a hard-line stance they lose out.


Think if he pulls this off, then he could start to position himself as a "statesman" - which could be helpful in stopping the drift away from teh Tories by people who have had enough of the belligerence, bluster and the chaos

In short - designed in such a way that opposition to it is difficult without seeming intransigent or unrealistic, or even not prepared to see how it works.

Bang on WF!

Johnsons Protocol Bill to override it has just been thrown out by Sunak(source Robert Peston) The adults are now in charge.

Everybody's happy.

Can trouble be far behind?

Are you saying that was the intention WF? Or is it merely how you see it?

In short - designed in such a way that opposition to it is difficult without seeming intransigent or unrealistic,

Wallflower seems as confused as ever
He seems to grudgingly admit that this is a good deal ,
and yet at the same time he says in his words ‘ every time they adopt a hard line stance they lose ‘

Hmmm ok , if it makes you feel better , lol

Probably "designed" is too strong a word if viewed as designed from the outset. Think that would have been too difficult a task anyway.

But certainly I think once they got the most of it together, it then had to be tweaked in such a way that the main objections points could be offset by various other components or indeed vagueness, whilst still respecting the red lines of each.  EU trade law a case in point - its laws still apply in NI, but new ones can be veto'd by Westminster.  So is EU / UK law supreme - can't really tell...... could argue it either way, and is still operational. ( Mind you, if vetoing any laws ever happens that will test the agreement).

But how do you object to it without presenting another solution and thereby looking to be as much of the problem as the issues themselves.

Sunak / VDL will get credit but some canny operators drafted / negotiated a lot of this.

They’re such bitter spiteful little things the scotch separatists ..

There was me thinking scotch was a drink

What difference is there in the trade laws in NI compared to the rest of the U.K. wallflower ?

Why did they have to pay more tax on their beer?

Oven ready reset
The bhoy done well, bizarre

Certainly takes away any platform Boris thought he might have also.

Beware of Rishi

This Windsor Framework - and the new arrangements not only
protects N Irelands place with in the U.K. .. it strengthens it
Simply because of the unique nature of the deal that NI now enjoys
They have full and free access for business and trade within U.K.
and also the EU , . No other country has that
They would be foolish to think of splitting from the U.K. and giving up
that very favourable and unique position . So it certainly strengthens
the case for people in NI to stay as part of UK

Dup going cap in hand to a Sinn Fein majority begging them to apply the 'Stormont Brake'.

Michelle,Ni raibh aon eolas cad a bhi tu ag ra Jeffrey

Not in the slightest bit confused.

You cannot deny that the DUP have been politically inept this last few years. They just can't go around saying No, No, No to everything - sooner or later, people tire of it and see no progress can be made with them. They continually get into bed with the Tories and then get shafted - its an abusive relationship, and they fall for it again and again and again.

I dont have an "issue" with anyone politics  unionist / nationalist, but will obviously disagree - but playing to their hardline element is not working.  I suspect Sinn Fein also play to their hardline element too, but its never too public, besides they dont seem to have as big an influence any more.

And all this without paying anything into the EU
And retaining automatic freedom of movement to the EU , and U.K. of course
And at the same time EU citizens not having the freedom to work and live in NI
It’s a fantastic deal and strengthens the Union

They continually get into bed with the Tories and then get shafted - its an abusive relationship, and they fall for it again and again and again.

I can't help think that was funny but really we all got shafted by it because it spawned the Liar and Lizzard Doris Johnson to fcek our country up. His greatest achievement apart of course conning everybody that voted for him was The Furlough Scheme....paying people to sit around and do nothing...Kwality!

Ah , wallflower you said any time the DUP adopts
a hard line stance they lose

Well I think closing stormont is pretty hardline , don’t you ?
And I think they have got very good and important changes to the protocol

That’s a win for everyone , be thankful

So yes, wallflower you are confused and bitter ..again

He nevrr conned me,it was obvious 6 months before he even became PM  he was the biggest fraudster in political hidtory all backed up by the MSM as well,a disgusting country we live in just t get Starmer as the controlled opposition to replace the tories..

Ian paisley jr,'this doesn't cut the mustard' (source Nicholas Watts BBC)

Seems as if the dup are gonna keep up the charade with the protocol when in reality they are finished as cannot be 2nd best to SF.

Johnson is a very clever politician
He knew it was a matter of respecting the vote and leaving the EU
That is what he did as soon as he gained power .. we left the EU
and with a very good free trade deal , it left the problem of protecting the gfa and peace in NI
The protocol was designed to do that .. it had sone real difficulties in implementation
This new framework addresses those difficulties
That’s good and it enhances Johnson’s initial and crucial determination - to honour the referendum vote

This “deal” is absolutely laughable and will go nowhere any fool can see that

Its also noticeable that the media are just utter none questioning scum ffs. Sunak should have been out in his ar3e quicker than Liz Truss, how hes still there proves its the media who control their downfalls. Not a peep all winter about him.. go figure. Said this back in October when some predicted his downfall would come in October, the media went totally quiet on him as predicted once we entered October.

It’s for the DUP now to decide if this goes to resolving all issues
Hopefully it does , but even if not it will be in place ..and that’s vital

If Westminster ratifies the deal it will become law

He hired a load of scumbags and... not a peep once the clocks went back

The watchers have been watched

The little bast@rd will need a good run on him

They are gone Lfc,no one cares anymore about them,not before time either.

No one ? that’s just typical of Irish nationalists
Just stop being so bitter for once

lfc1971 27 Feb 23 18:39 
If Westminster ratifies the deal it will become law

------------------------------------------------------

Not quite

Well they can't concede anything without a cost to it.

They want some leverage going into the elections, however it's likely to backfire and then they will become anonymous to some degree.

If they can't as lfc says take this win, what on forbidden earth can they.

I said last year and before where this is heading,but I don't want to repeat it, especially after recent events, but we all know they are well tied in...not good

Yes doubtless the EU , quite rightly , have to ratify it also

The flat earthers might, the rest of the UK for the common good cannot be held to ransom anymore,surely most can see that,they are gone!

Gods green earth*

I think they will take this win .  It’s monumental in a way and historic
I give great credit to Ursula Von der Leyen and the EU also

Is the fact you obviously fancy her clouding your judgement lfc?

You know you want to

I think she would report him as having been given ready[

Oven ready

Is that a sick Nazi crack peck?

Go On Geoffrey wear the sash of success you bollox ha

put hin in charge of the boats Rishi

No sir, no never ever

Sammy banging the drum and Ian og on the flute.Ah for feck sake can't ye start brexit all over again for them!

They aint getting sh!t

Very attractive woman Ms Von der leyen , wd
I can’t deny

The lawyers are looking at it now but appears common sense and pragmatism have come to the fore.
It is just so annoying that this couldn't have been sorted a long time ago, without the political opportunism ,nastiness and threats by both sides.
The "sausage wars" and NI protocol bill threat and "sleepy joe" pressure were unhelpful and hindered an economic neccasity and did nobody any credit.

Very attractive woman Ms Von der leyen , wd
I can’t deny

I might have shagged her on a drunken night in Camden back in the day lfc or somebody very like her

1976

are you sure?


How old is she?

Unionists not happy, paisley and Sammy making it clear.

The hot word now is divergance.

Nothing will ever appease these people.

They thrive on disunity.

Born in 58 WD, so you'll not be getting nicked.

Just a minute packer , you haven’t made any concessions - none
Along with the rest of the nationalists .
Now it’s very rude to ask others to do what you won’t do yourself …. That’s basic stuff
that nationalists don’t seem to understand
It’s for the DUP to look at the framework and determine if it is acceptable - to them

Good good!

pecker *

she would have to be drugged to bang a mug like you whimpering

this brexit thing is soooo depressing. never have i felt more alienated from my own country

Basic stuff , .. try and understand it

Lfc, you have repeatedly said today how well Rishi and Ursula have done and it's a good deal for the North, so give over.

Good God, blind drunk by the sound of it WD.

Imo it’s a good deal ..  but I am not the DUP
And neither are you , so I don’t want nationalists asking others to do
what they refuse to do themselves .. I know that’s a difficult concept for
nationalists to grasp

Lfc, I made my concession when you took you're invading army of the streets of my land.

The biggest concession anyone has made.

Now calm down, have another sherry, and count your chickens.

pecker if you live in any part of the U.K.
then it is not an invading army that’s where you are going wrong
So you have not made any concessions , not then and not now
You never have

Call it what you like

I'll call it the 32.

That's what it is, even Rishi knows that

You’re entitled to call it that if you wish
And you’re entitled to aspire for a United Ireland , no problem with that
In the meantime i expect you to respect the laws of the U.K.

Oh , and don’t expect others to make concessions to suit you
They may not agree .. basic stuff

pd. ignore the usuial bollox from the usual sources but what would your thinking be if you were an ulster person who is not of your persuasion? i find the whole thing depressing and am broadly on your side but i dont dismiss the concerns of the other side who are routinely dismissed as reactionary wrong-headed loons

most are not and deserve some appreciation. their concerns are legitimate

its inevitable, but having endured the 'troubles'( a massive understatement of mass murder of innocents, to the shame of all involved) i dont want to see the same again, the other way round.

who wants to see the new uvf?

keir hardie was a great geezer. if only this version was

Word coming through that the DUP have rejected the Windsor Framework As it doesn’t address the fundamental problem of allowing Catholics the right to vote

^ Not only more lies .. they’re good at that , but pretty rich from a group of people
who refused to honour and tried to block the democratic vote of the British people
in the Brexit referendum . When you vote you are duty bound to respect the outcome of
that vote .. its basic stuff . Just more hypocrisy from the usual suspects

Nicola Sturgeon said she is prepared to block legislation
necessary for the U.K. to leave the EU ..June 2016

That is a referendum of the British people , in which she took part
She shouldn’t be voting if she refuses to accept the outcome of that vote
You might think the leader of a political party would understand that fundamental
democratic principle ..

^ I suppose you make allowances for the dup? They didn't bother turning up after the outcome of their elections.

Giving the UKs predicament economically i think they did very well yesterday,relations with the EU/Ireland better,maybe a possible US trade deal,the poison of Johnson/erg put to bed.

I do think it is a new start with the best of what is available,working with rather than against always the best course,no alternative really.

Double edged sword ,the UK position needed the threat of NI protocol bill etc ,to drag the EU to the negotiating table and they are also very slow and intransigent ,with people like Macron pulling the strings.
Both sides to blame might be a balanced view but a balanced view has been missing from this sad episode.

A deal which MPs once hailed as brilliant is now trashed by the same MPs and replaced by a new deal which is hailed as brilliant because it gives NI the advantages that the UK decided to take away from itself. Good to see that Brexit continues to make no sense whatsoever.

Rishi Sunak just spent 2 minutes boasting about how Northern Ireland is the "most exciting exciting investment zone on the planet" because it has full access to the UK and EU market...

You know... like we did before Brexit!

Once the EU finally accepted that there was zero chance of the UK ignoring the referendum result and remaining in their club , they had no option but to reach a compromise on the NI position.

They played silly buggers for years whilst a flicker of a chance remained of us returning - we should never forget that.

Perhaps Mr Sunak realises that the EU is all about protecting the "single market" which encourages inwards trade but because of the protectionist barriers that the EU puts up ,outward trade is much much harder.
So yes he is right ,NI has a unique opportunity to trade with the EU but also able to trade tariff free with many other countries in the world ,maybe the CPTPP ,which of course would not have been possible before.

Good to see the Brexit supporters studying the Windsor Agreement . Unlike their lemming like cliff jumping which helped to influence the referendum result .

Boris has no interest in Northern Ireland per se, the DUP were just another casualty protocol wise when he was asserting about an oven ready deal . Did any of those Brexit supporters query the substance of his oven ready cry ?

I suspect that Sunak will have to firm up on the deal legislation wise soon , so that he can sweeten up relations with the USA in time for Joe Biden to travel in April .

Waiting for the DUP to have their minds made up by the street politicians who pull their strings just delays things . Truth is the DUP have been all over the place since they mistakenly supported Brexit without acknowledging the hiatus it would cause here politically . And X leaders later they struggle .  Sunak and Jeffrey have one thing in common , they do not represent "first choice "leaders .

Jamie Bryson,April 2017,source the BBC NI;

'Brexit will destroy the Belfast Agreement that's why it should be welcomed'

There it is, and no surprise, Boris Johnson "breaks his silence" to reject the Windsor arrangement.

Mitolo, the majority of people in the North voted to remain.

The majority of people by far are in favour of this Windsor framswork.

What you are really asking me is to see if I show any sympathy to the Unionists position, the answer is no emphatically.

The majority of people just want to get on with their lives, with prosperity if possible, certainly with peace and a functioning assembly, it's as simple as that.

Have I any compassion for the Unionists position, yeah sure, you can be protestant, you can be a unionist, you can even be a loyalist unionist, but if you want to halt progress, if you want to continue with flag waving, well I'm sorry you are on the wrong island for that.

You know it, I know it, they know it, times have changed, people have moved on.

Move on or get out, the choice is theirs.

There is no going back.

Never forget the dup pushed brexit for a hard land border on the island of Ireland as they are against the GFA.

No sympathy whatsoever and a poison to the decent people on the island.

People also need to realise Geoffrey Donaldson is in a very tight corner now.

He doesn't hold the balance of power, he barely had common ground with see Sammy Wilson, not Jim Allister either TUV.

The people who will derail this are Jamie Bryson and Ian Paisley and his think tank buddies like  the KC John Larkin, previously AG.