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Even on Sky news now, reports of a high number of excess deaths due to the hot summer. Its like theres been some kind of medical experiment gone wrong
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Whats remarkable Timber is that all the people you are highlighting are in the public eye.....how many thousands are dying who are just normal people. We need transparency to see if any of these people have had the C19 experimental vaccine and if they have is the vaccine a reason for their sad demise.
Former U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter has died SUDDENLY, according to a family announcement released Tuesday morning
Very worrying effects now being reported in cancer sufferers post covid injection. Many doctors are concerned the jab is triggering dormant cancers or causing existing tumours to become significantly more aggressive.
Read Roxanne Khamsi’s article about Dr Michel Goldman in The Atlantic. Dr Goldman is an immunologist whose cancer became much worse immediately following the covid jab, particularly so in the area surrounding the injection site.
Despite his experience, both Dr Goldman and Miss Khamsi remain in favour of the jabs.
Read Roxanne Khamsi’s article about Dr Michel Goldman in The Atlantic. Dr Goldman is an immunologist whose cancer became much worse immediately following the covid jab, particularly so in the area surrounding the injection site.
Despite his experience, both Dr Goldman and Miss Khamsi remain in favour of the jabs.
Who could have predicted that experimenting with people’s DNA might lead to nasty side effects?
Go figure.
Go figure.
Rugby player dies on the field after collapsing during centennial celebrations match in New Zealand
MRNA vaccines aren't experimenting with anyone's DNA and it's also nowhere near what the mentioned article suggests.
It is a bit curious that you, Pokermonster, constantly choose to add lies. Do you feel sticking to the truth won't look bad enough for the vaccines?
Nothing I have written is untrue, Edy. If it troubles you so much, old chap, don’t read it.
I see. Would you kind enough to provide what you base it on that people's DNA is being experimented on?
We can also continue our talk about the licensing status if you are finally up for acknowledging that lie instead of you going "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA" at the danger of you having your lies pointed out to you.
Here is Miss Khamsi’s article if anyone is interested. Apologies for the rather long copy and paste.
By Roxanne Khamsi.
On September 22nd of last year, Michel Goldman, a Belgian immunologist and one of Europe’s best-known champions of medical research, walked into a clinic near his house, rolled up his sleeve, and had a booster shot delivered to his arm. He knew he’d need it more than most.
Just a few weeks earlier, Michel, 67, had been to see his younger brother, Serge, the head of nuclear medicine at the hospital of the Université Libre de Bruxelles, where both men are professors. Michel was having night sweats, and he could feel swollen lymph nodes in his neck, so his brother brought him in for a full-body CT scan. When the images came through to Serge’s computer they revealed a smattering of inky spots, bunched near Michel’s left armpit and running up along his neck. It was cancer of the immune system—lymphoma.
Given his own area of expertise, Michel understood this meant he’d soon be immunocompromised by chemotherapy. With another winter on the way—and perhaps another wave of SARS-CoV-2 infections—that meant he had just a narrow window of opportunity in which his body would respond in full to COVID vaccination.
Having received two doses of Pfizer the prior spring, Michel quickly went to get his third. If he was about to spend months absorbing poison as he tried to beat a deadly cancer, at least he’d have the most protection possible from the pandemic.
Within a few days, though, Michel was somehow feeling even worse. His night sweats got much more intense, and he found himself—quite out of character—taking afternoon naps. Most worryingly, his lymph nodes were even more swollen than before. He conferred with Serge again, and they set up another body scan for September 30th, six days before Michel was scheduled to start his cancer treatment. Once again he sat in the radiology waiting room while his brother waited for the pictures to appear on his computer.
Serge’s bushy eyebrows furrowed when he spoke with Michel after having seen the scans. (“I will always remember his face, it was just incredible,” Michel told me.) The pictures showed a brand-new barrage of cancer lesions—so many spots that it looked like someone had set off fireworks inside Michel’s body. More than that, the lesions were now prominent on both sides of the body, with new clusters blooming in Michel’s right armpit in particular, and along the right side of his neck.
When Michel’s hematologist saw the scan she told him to report directly to the nearest hospital pharmacy. He’d have to start on steroid pills right away, she told him. Such a swift progression for lymphoma in just three weeks was highly unusual, and he could not risk waiting a single day longer.
As he followed these instructions, Michel felt a gnawing worry that his COVID booster shot had somehow made him sicker. His brother was harboring a similar concern. The asymmetrical cluster of cancerous nodes around Michel’s left armpit on the initial scan had already seemed “a bit disturbing,” as his brother said; especially given that Michel’s first two doses of vaccine had been delivered on that side. Now he’d had a booster shot in the other arm, and the cancer’s asymmetry was flipped.
The brothers knew this might be just an eerie coincidence. But they couldn’t shake the feeling that Michel had experienced what would be a very rare yet life-threatening side effect of COVID vaccination. For a doctor who had spent four decades studying and advocating for new medicines, that feeling would unfold into many months of deliberation and self-doubt.
Michel used to run an institute for vaccine-technology research, and he’s spoken out to reassure the public about the safety of the COVID vaccines, and of the mRNA vaccines in particular. In December 2020, he told an interviewer that “if there was a real problem with the technology, we’d have seen it before now for sure.” His “main concern,” he continued, was that people would use the mere possibility of side effects “as an argument not to be vaccinated.”
But now that possibility appeared to be splattered all across his medical charts. Michel Goldman, champion of the mRNA vaccines, suspected that he was their unlucky victim.
I happened to speak with Michel by phone in April 2021, months before his cancer diagnosis. I’d called him to discuss another potential side effect of COVID vaccination, one associated in particular with the shot made by AstraZeneca. By that point, 220 people who’d received that vaccine had developed an unusual—and very dangerous—blood-clotting syndrome, which was characterized by an atypical low platelet count. At least seven people in the U.K. alone had died of the complication. Michel patiently laid out the different mechanisms that might explain this strange condition. But he was quick to add that the mRNA COVID vaccines were built in a way that could mitigate the risk of this particular problem.
Michel currently leads the I3h institute, a university hub aimed at assisting in drug-design projects; in an earlier posting, he headed a $2 billion European endeavor to accelerate the research of new medicines. As such, he’s spent many years attending to the possible risks—even tiny ones—of novel medical treatments. He has raised awareness about the iron overload that used to afflict dialysis patients before the advent of a drug known as erythropoietin, for example; and looked for signs of “cytokine storms” in kidney-transplant recipients who received monoclonal-antibody treatments. So when a plethora of new vaccines for COVID emerged in the first year of the pandemic, he was watching very closely.
When we talked about the potential side effects of the AstraZeneca vaccine last year, Michel made it clear that, in the big picture, any chance of serious complications from the shots would be orders of magnitude smaller than the chance of complications from the pandemic illness itself. If COVID vaccines caused clotting disorders or myocarditis in a tiny percentage of those who received them, he assured me, COVID would lead to stroke or heart inflammation in a much larger group.
The risks and benefits for each vaccine should be weighed against each other, he continued. If AstraZeneca were the only option, then its protection might be worth the very small risk of developing a rare blood disorder. But given the availability of Pfizer, Moderna, and other COVID vaccines, many people could opt for a safer alternative.
Now that risk-benefit calculation has been thrust upon him in a personal and terrifying way. By the time we spoke again, he’d become a cancer patient who suspected that his mRNA vaccine might have made things worse. Michel is reserved by nature, prone to making matter-of-fact remarks rather than emotive musings. In this case, I found him more guarded than ever, and I could tell he’d struggled over how he should describe his own experience—or, indeed, whether he should even be describing it at all. Perhaps his hypothesis was wrong, and the course of his cancer had had nothing to do with the shots. Or maybe the cancer and the mRNA vaccine were connected, but the risk of getting immunized was still just a tiny speck beside the benefits. Applying the same logic that he’d used before, he decided it made sense to go public with this theory. If other people with the same lymphoma felt the need to hedge their bets, they might consider holding off on the Pfizer and Moderna shots.
Michel knew that by speaking out about another potential rare effect—especially without hard proof—he’d be introducing a different kind of risk. Recent years had already seen a rise in anti-vaccine disinformation, and protesters have thrown menstrual blood at state legislators and issued death threats to public-health officials. Fearmongers have made the problem worse by citing scary-sounding data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, a U.S. government database of possible side effects from immunizations, with insufficient context. In Europe, French police used tear gas to disperse anti-vaccine protesters who were aiming fireworks at officers in July of 2021; a vaccination center was set ablaze in Poland a few weeks later. Michel was well aware of all this trend; in fact, he’d been sounding the alarm about the spread of vaccine misinformation online before the pandemic even started. If he shared his own experience of cancer, might that make the problem worse?
This was not a reason to remain silent, Michel eventually decided. It was a reason to speak carefully.
First things first: Before Michel could tackle the conundrum of going public with this theory, he’d need to get his cancer under control. On October 6, he sat in a hospital room in Brussels, feeling quite afraid while nurses hooked up an infusion line to the catheter that had been surgically embedded near his collarbone.
After so many years spent working as a doctor, he was suddenly a patient. People with his kind of lymphoma have only about a 30 percent chance of surviving longer than five years, and the aggressiveness of his disease meant that the medications would have to be intense. The drug that Michel was getting for his first infusion, called brentuximab vedotin, would be the newest and potentially riskiest in his regimen. Side effects can include breathing difficulties, blistering skin, and even permanent nerve damage.
Michel didn’t end up having any of those symptoms, but he did feel very weak. He convalesced at home, and for several days felt unable to do much of anything. But as soon as a bit of his strength came back, he started going through the cancer-research literature. He had several weeks until the next infusion, which meant he had several weeks to figure out whether the vaccine really had quickened his lymphoma, and whether other cancer patients might be in danger from the shots. He was used to reading stacks of science papers for his work; now he did so at an even faster pace.
Michel’s cancer was the kind that attacks the body’s T cells, which coordinate the immune response to invading pathogens. T-cell lymphomas come in roughly 30 different subtypes; Michel’s, known as angioimmunoblastic T-cell lymphoma, affects what are called follicular helper T cells, which hang out in the tonsils and the lymph nodes, among other tissues. Follicular helper T cells serve a crucial role in the cascade of events to protect the body after dangerous invaders have arrived. That process begins with dendritic cells, which identify a virus or other pathogen and present examples of it to the rest of the immune system. The helper T cells do just as their name suggests: They help pass that message along to B cells, which end up making protective antibodies against the virus.
Michel had recently learned that mRNA vaccines, such as the Pfizer shots he had received, are especially effective at generating that message, and spurring its passage through the helper T cells. Some researchers argue that the COVID vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna have been more protective than others for exactly this reason: They rev up those cells with extra oomph. Now Michel began to wonder whether that oomph could, in ultrarare cases, turn out to be a liability. Perhaps the shots gave such a jolt to his helper T cells that they went berserk. If they were prone to forming tumors, or if they were already cancerous, then overstimulation could have made the problem even worse.
As the days went by, Michel found other clues suggesting that the link was real, and that the mRNA vaccines might be risky for a specific subset of the population. He learned that body scans of some of those who get vaccines, including cancer patients, have shown heightened activity in the lymph nodes near the armpit on the side where the shot was received. He also came across another, very important clue. In 2018, a team of researchers based at Columbia University’s Institute for Cancer Genetics had published an intriguing study using mice with a pair of gene mutations that, when they co-occur, predispose T cells to go rogue. (Michel’s tumor, which had been sequenced by this point, showed the same two mutations.) When these mice were injected with sheep red-blood cells—as an experimental stand-in for invading microbes—the animals developed the subtype of lymphoma that was diagnosed in Michel.
Now Michel had a theory to explain the bleak coincidence that had befallen him. Serge agreed that it made sense. The brothers had co-written research papers in the past, including ones on the use of stem cells for heart repair and dendritic-cell vaccines for cancer. It was time for them to write another.
On october 20 of last year, Hans-Georg Eichler, a clinical pharmacologist and former senior medical officer for the European Medicines Agency, opened up his email to find a message from Michel. The two have known each other for more than a decade. “I hope that you are well,” the message started, “which is not really my case ...” Michel had pasted in a link to a medical report, not yet published. “I am curious to hear your thoughts,” he wrote.
The paper, titled “Rapid Progression of Angioimmunoblastic T Cell Lymphoma Following BNT162b2 mRNA Vaccine Booster Shot” and credited to Serge Goldman, Michel Goldman, and six of their Belgian colleagues, would run in the journal Frontiers in Medicine a few weeks later. (Michel is that journal’s editor in chief; he recused himself from the process of editing and peer review.) It begins by describing “a 66-year-old man with no significant medical history” who had been diagnosed with lymphoma that worsened following a booster dose of COVID-19 vaccine. The Goldmans’ unusual connection to the data—the fact that the 66-year-old man in question was Michel—comes across obliquely in the text. An ethics statement, printed at the end of the case report, includes the line: “Being one of the authors, the patient consented to the publication.”
Eichler, who had closely followed the furor over vaccine-associated blood-clot disorders the previous spring, replied that evening: “I have read the paper and am very impressed … It is the most responsible and courageous thing you could do under the worst possible circumstances.”
“I would say that 95 percent of the reactions were extremely friendly,” Michel told me later. But as he’d feared, anti-vaccine activists picked up on the story. “The lymph nodes of those who have taken these shots are exploding, burgeoning, and bulging with this toxic bioweapon,” a right-wing influencer named Jane Ruby wrote on Telegram beneath a screenshot of Michel’s CT scans, which had appeared in his published paper (and are reproduced in this article). “LYMPHOMA - That’s right… Cancer of the lymphatic system … STOP THIS FROM GETTING INTO BABIES AND CHILDREN!!!!!” Ruby’s claims were amplified on Natural News, among other anti-vaccination sites where, again, the very images that Michel’s brother had used to diagnose his illness were presented as shocking evidence of vaccination’s dangers. “PHOTOS: LYMPHOMA CANCER EXPLODING IN THE BOOSTED,” one website said.
When I told Michel about these online posts, he shook his head in disappointment. “They’re looking for anything to support their crazy vision,” he said. “It makes me sad about the world in which we are living.” That’s not to say he was surprised. Michel knew, for instance, that medical experts have dispelled false rumors about vaccines infecting people with COVID-19. He told me that he’d obsessed over getting the tone of the manuscript exactly right, so as not to fuel vaccine skepticism. He was careful, for example, to describe the vaccine as possibly “inducing” the “progression” of his cancer—rather than “causing” it to surface. “I spent hours and hours,” he said. “I’ve never spent so much time on details in a paper.”
Extremely rare cases like Michel’s create a tricky terrain for science communication. Even a clinical trial with thousands of participants might never turn up a single case of someone's cancer worsening after vaccination. In that context, experts can't assign a statistical estimate of the risk across the wider population. Science journalists may be wary of reporting on the story for that reason. In fact, when Michel first told me about his cancer and about the paper he’d written with his brother, I said that I couldn’t write about it. I was worried that some readers would misinterpret my article, and mistakenly see it as a reason not to get vaccinated. As I write this, I’m still concerned that you might do exactly that.
But the scientific literature is sprinkled with odd cases like Michel’s that have puzzled doctors. The Goldmans’ paper follows earlier isolated reports suggesting a possible link between COVID-19 vaccination and lymphoma. Aaron Mangold, who heads the division of clinical dermatology at the Mayo Clinic in Arizona, co-authored a paper published in May 2021 about a patient whose rare skin lymphoma recurred after his initial Pfizer shot. The tumorous ulcer appeared in the armpit of the same arm in which the man had received the injection, and then regressed spontaneously. A second shot of the vaccine, delivered three weeks later, produced no further lesions, Mangold told me, and the whole ordeal could have simply been a coincidence. He felt that he’d been “threading the needle” to go public with the case report given that uncertainty.
Ladan Zand, a nephrologist at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, faced the same conundrum when she co-authored a paper last year detailing five patients who had a relapse of kidney disease following mRNA COVID vaccination. Her team also documented eight patients who were newly diagnosed with the disease, known as glomerulonephritis, after receiving the shot. But Zand cautions that those patients might have had underlying kidney disease and not been aware of it. People infected with the novel coronavirus also show higher rates of kidney-function decline over time. “I spend half of my visits now asking patients to get vaccinated,” she said. “If you were to compare the risks and benefits, the benefits of the vaccine way outweigh the risk of rare entities that, for the most part, seem to be self-limiting.”
William Murphy, an immunologist at UC Davis, told me that Michel’s before-and-after CT scans were fascinating in the context of the mouse study from Columbia. The cancer’s behavior certainly appeared to be related to the vaccine, he said, “given the huge difference in the scans of the tumor progression in a very short period of time.” But one can’t be certain, however striking the data. It’s just a case report, he added—one patient.
The Goldmans’ paper, for its part, notes that it would be “premature” to extrapolate the findings from Michel to other patients with the same kind of cancer, and that the link, even if it were proved, should not discourage general uptake of “much-needed vaccines.” An unusual paragraph tacked onto the bottom of the article underscores the point. Marked “Patient Perspective,” and written in the third person, it notes that Michel himself “remains convinced that mRNA vaccines represent very efficient products with a favorable benefit-risk ratio,” and that he hopes the report will encourage further research.
In mid-february, Michel spiked a sudden fever. COVID had finally caught up with him. Given that he was immunocompromised by six rounds of cancer chemotherapy, Michel knew that his doctors would need to act quickly. He soon received an infusion of the monoclonal-antibody drug sotrovimab, and managed to recover without incident; his lymph nodes stayed blessedly quiet, and there was no resurgence of his cancer. Now he’s eligible for a second booster shot, but he’s not sure whether he should take it. “I don't know what I will do,” he said.
Would another dose of the vaccine cause another round of cancer lesions? Michel and the scientists who have been in touch with him are still mulling the evidence about whether his original cancer flare was simply a fluke. Steven Horwitz, a medical oncologist at Memorial Sloan Kettering who focuses on the care of patients with lymphoma, has looked more closely at vaccine side effects since hearing about Michel’s case, and feels reassured by what he’s found. “Of our patients who received mRNA COVID vaccines, we have not seen any clearly related and documented relapses or progressions,” he told me via email. Meanwhile, lymphomas and the treatments given for them can weaken the immune system, putting affected patients at higher risk of severe COVID-19 if infected. “Vaccination remains the most effective way to mitigate that risk,” he said.
I reached out to the makers of the mRNA COVID vaccines to ask about Michel’s case. A representative for Pfizer noted that the company takes such reports “very seriously” but that, “to date, there has been no identified correlation between the vaccine and cancer.” Moderna’s chief medical officer, Paul Burton, told me that the company keeps careful track of safety data and has not found any relationship between vaccination and lymphoma. He also pointed to the case of a 61-year-old woman with cancer of the salivary gland whose tumor shrank to about one-quarter of its original size in the month after she received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine. “Now, did it really regress because the person got a messenger RNA vaccine?” he asked. “I don't know. I think biology is truly a remarkable thing."
While Michel remains unsure about his fourth shot, he has continued to be outspoken on the benefits of vaccination overall, and often speaks to Belgian media on the topic. At the same time, he has become a stronger advocate for broader tracking of adverse events from vaccines—an endeavor he and others in drug development call “pharmacovigilance.”
“We need to make sure that some pharmacovigilance programs are powered to detect very, very rare side effects,” Michel told me. Eichler, who was involved in drug regulation for the European Medicines Agency, said that while some doctors may be “aficionados” of randomized controlled trials as the only valid source of medical evidence, other types of information are needed. Michel’s case shows why: You’ve got a patient “who is a professor of medicine, who experiences the side effects and says, ‘Okay, this must be a side effect,’” Eichler said. That “rings the bells. Could Michel have ever come up in an RCT? My answer is probably not.”
Just a few days before Michel got COVID, he had gone back to Serge’s office for yet another set of full-body CT images, to check the status of his cancer. He sat in his brother’s waiting room, as he had last September, while Serge examined the results. This time, though, Serge’s expression was relaxed. The scans were clear.
Michel still has to watch out for a recurrence. And as a longtime immunologist and medical innovator, he’s still considering the question of whether a vaccine that is saving tens of millions of lives each year might have put his own in jeopardy. He remains adamant that COVID-19 vaccines are necessary and useful for the vast majority of people. But he wants the discussion about vaccines to be transparent.
Around the time of his February follow-up, Michel received a message from a doctor who had read his self-referential case report. The doctor’s mother had been diagnosed with the same subtype of lymphoma that Michel has following a COVID booster shot. More recently, he got an email from a woman whose sister had been vaccinated and received that diagnosis the following month. Again, these could be coincidences. Or maybe they are the second and third data points in a growing set. The possible connection between Michel’s lymphoma flare and his COVID-19 vaccination occupies much of his thinking these days. “If it exists, it must be very rare,” he said. But he doesn’t regret going public with his case. “I’m still convinced it was the right thing to do.”
Roxanne Khamsi is a science journalist based in Montreal.
By Roxanne Khamsi.
On September 22nd of last year, Michel Goldman, a Belgian immunologist and one of Europe’s best-known champions of medical research, walked into a clinic near his house, rolled up his sleeve, and had a booster shot delivered to his arm. He knew he’d need it more than most.
Just a few weeks earlier, Michel, 67, had been to see his younger brother, Serge, the head of nuclear medicine at the hospital of the Université Libre de Bruxelles, where both men are professors. Michel was having night sweats, and he could feel swollen lymph nodes in his neck, so his brother brought him in for a full-body CT scan. When the images came through to Serge’s computer they revealed a smattering of inky spots, bunched near Michel’s left armpit and running up along his neck. It was cancer of the immune system—lymphoma.
Given his own area of expertise, Michel understood this meant he’d soon be immunocompromised by chemotherapy. With another winter on the way—and perhaps another wave of SARS-CoV-2 infections—that meant he had just a narrow window of opportunity in which his body would respond in full to COVID vaccination.
Having received two doses of Pfizer the prior spring, Michel quickly went to get his third. If he was about to spend months absorbing poison as he tried to beat a deadly cancer, at least he’d have the most protection possible from the pandemic.
Within a few days, though, Michel was somehow feeling even worse. His night sweats got much more intense, and he found himself—quite out of character—taking afternoon naps. Most worryingly, his lymph nodes were even more swollen than before. He conferred with Serge again, and they set up another body scan for September 30th, six days before Michel was scheduled to start his cancer treatment. Once again he sat in the radiology waiting room while his brother waited for the pictures to appear on his computer.
Serge’s bushy eyebrows furrowed when he spoke with Michel after having seen the scans. (“I will always remember his face, it was just incredible,” Michel told me.) The pictures showed a brand-new barrage of cancer lesions—so many spots that it looked like someone had set off fireworks inside Michel’s body. More than that, the lesions were now prominent on both sides of the body, with new clusters blooming in Michel’s right armpit in particular, and along the right side of his neck.
When Michel’s hematologist saw the scan she told him to report directly to the nearest hospital pharmacy. He’d have to start on steroid pills right away, she told him. Such a swift progression for lymphoma in just three weeks was highly unusual, and he could not risk waiting a single day longer.
As he followed these instructions, Michel felt a gnawing worry that his COVID booster shot had somehow made him sicker. His brother was harboring a similar concern. The asymmetrical cluster of cancerous nodes around Michel’s left armpit on the initial scan had already seemed “a bit disturbing,” as his brother said; especially given that Michel’s first two doses of vaccine had been delivered on that side. Now he’d had a booster shot in the other arm, and the cancer’s asymmetry was flipped.
The brothers knew this might be just an eerie coincidence. But they couldn’t shake the feeling that Michel had experienced what would be a very rare yet life-threatening side effect of COVID vaccination. For a doctor who had spent four decades studying and advocating for new medicines, that feeling would unfold into many months of deliberation and self-doubt.
Michel used to run an institute for vaccine-technology research, and he’s spoken out to reassure the public about the safety of the COVID vaccines, and of the mRNA vaccines in particular. In December 2020, he told an interviewer that “if there was a real problem with the technology, we’d have seen it before now for sure.” His “main concern,” he continued, was that people would use the mere possibility of side effects “as an argument not to be vaccinated.”
But now that possibility appeared to be splattered all across his medical charts. Michel Goldman, champion of the mRNA vaccines, suspected that he was their unlucky victim.
I happened to speak with Michel by phone in April 2021, months before his cancer diagnosis. I’d called him to discuss another potential side effect of COVID vaccination, one associated in particular with the shot made by AstraZeneca. By that point, 220 people who’d received that vaccine had developed an unusual—and very dangerous—blood-clotting syndrome, which was characterized by an atypical low platelet count. At least seven people in the U.K. alone had died of the complication. Michel patiently laid out the different mechanisms that might explain this strange condition. But he was quick to add that the mRNA COVID vaccines were built in a way that could mitigate the risk of this particular problem.
Michel currently leads the I3h institute, a university hub aimed at assisting in drug-design projects; in an earlier posting, he headed a $2 billion European endeavor to accelerate the research of new medicines. As such, he’s spent many years attending to the possible risks—even tiny ones—of novel medical treatments. He has raised awareness about the iron overload that used to afflict dialysis patients before the advent of a drug known as erythropoietin, for example; and looked for signs of “cytokine storms” in kidney-transplant recipients who received monoclonal-antibody treatments. So when a plethora of new vaccines for COVID emerged in the first year of the pandemic, he was watching very closely.
When we talked about the potential side effects of the AstraZeneca vaccine last year, Michel made it clear that, in the big picture, any chance of serious complications from the shots would be orders of magnitude smaller than the chance of complications from the pandemic illness itself. If COVID vaccines caused clotting disorders or myocarditis in a tiny percentage of those who received them, he assured me, COVID would lead to stroke or heart inflammation in a much larger group.
The risks and benefits for each vaccine should be weighed against each other, he continued. If AstraZeneca were the only option, then its protection might be worth the very small risk of developing a rare blood disorder. But given the availability of Pfizer, Moderna, and other COVID vaccines, many people could opt for a safer alternative.
Now that risk-benefit calculation has been thrust upon him in a personal and terrifying way. By the time we spoke again, he’d become a cancer patient who suspected that his mRNA vaccine might have made things worse. Michel is reserved by nature, prone to making matter-of-fact remarks rather than emotive musings. In this case, I found him more guarded than ever, and I could tell he’d struggled over how he should describe his own experience—or, indeed, whether he should even be describing it at all. Perhaps his hypothesis was wrong, and the course of his cancer had had nothing to do with the shots. Or maybe the cancer and the mRNA vaccine were connected, but the risk of getting immunized was still just a tiny speck beside the benefits. Applying the same logic that he’d used before, he decided it made sense to go public with this theory. If other people with the same lymphoma felt the need to hedge their bets, they might consider holding off on the Pfizer and Moderna shots.
Michel knew that by speaking out about another potential rare effect—especially without hard proof—he’d be introducing a different kind of risk. Recent years had already seen a rise in anti-vaccine disinformation, and protesters have thrown menstrual blood at state legislators and issued death threats to public-health officials. Fearmongers have made the problem worse by citing scary-sounding data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, a U.S. government database of possible side effects from immunizations, with insufficient context. In Europe, French police used tear gas to disperse anti-vaccine protesters who were aiming fireworks at officers in July of 2021; a vaccination center was set ablaze in Poland a few weeks later. Michel was well aware of all this trend; in fact, he’d been sounding the alarm about the spread of vaccine misinformation online before the pandemic even started. If he shared his own experience of cancer, might that make the problem worse?
This was not a reason to remain silent, Michel eventually decided. It was a reason to speak carefully.
First things first: Before Michel could tackle the conundrum of going public with this theory, he’d need to get his cancer under control. On October 6, he sat in a hospital room in Brussels, feeling quite afraid while nurses hooked up an infusion line to the catheter that had been surgically embedded near his collarbone.
After so many years spent working as a doctor, he was suddenly a patient. People with his kind of lymphoma have only about a 30 percent chance of surviving longer than five years, and the aggressiveness of his disease meant that the medications would have to be intense. The drug that Michel was getting for his first infusion, called brentuximab vedotin, would be the newest and potentially riskiest in his regimen. Side effects can include breathing difficulties, blistering skin, and even permanent nerve damage.
Michel didn’t end up having any of those symptoms, but he did feel very weak. He convalesced at home, and for several days felt unable to do much of anything. But as soon as a bit of his strength came back, he started going through the cancer-research literature. He had several weeks until the next infusion, which meant he had several weeks to figure out whether the vaccine really had quickened his lymphoma, and whether other cancer patients might be in danger from the shots. He was used to reading stacks of science papers for his work; now he did so at an even faster pace.
Michel’s cancer was the kind that attacks the body’s T cells, which coordinate the immune response to invading pathogens. T-cell lymphomas come in roughly 30 different subtypes; Michel’s, known as angioimmunoblastic T-cell lymphoma, affects what are called follicular helper T cells, which hang out in the tonsils and the lymph nodes, among other tissues. Follicular helper T cells serve a crucial role in the cascade of events to protect the body after dangerous invaders have arrived. That process begins with dendritic cells, which identify a virus or other pathogen and present examples of it to the rest of the immune system. The helper T cells do just as their name suggests: They help pass that message along to B cells, which end up making protective antibodies against the virus.
Michel had recently learned that mRNA vaccines, such as the Pfizer shots he had received, are especially effective at generating that message, and spurring its passage through the helper T cells. Some researchers argue that the COVID vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna have been more protective than others for exactly this reason: They rev up those cells with extra oomph. Now Michel began to wonder whether that oomph could, in ultrarare cases, turn out to be a liability. Perhaps the shots gave such a jolt to his helper T cells that they went berserk. If they were prone to forming tumors, or if they were already cancerous, then overstimulation could have made the problem even worse.
As the days went by, Michel found other clues suggesting that the link was real, and that the mRNA vaccines might be risky for a specific subset of the population. He learned that body scans of some of those who get vaccines, including cancer patients, have shown heightened activity in the lymph nodes near the armpit on the side where the shot was received. He also came across another, very important clue. In 2018, a team of researchers based at Columbia University’s Institute for Cancer Genetics had published an intriguing study using mice with a pair of gene mutations that, when they co-occur, predispose T cells to go rogue. (Michel’s tumor, which had been sequenced by this point, showed the same two mutations.) When these mice were injected with sheep red-blood cells—as an experimental stand-in for invading microbes—the animals developed the subtype of lymphoma that was diagnosed in Michel.
Now Michel had a theory to explain the bleak coincidence that had befallen him. Serge agreed that it made sense. The brothers had co-written research papers in the past, including ones on the use of stem cells for heart repair and dendritic-cell vaccines for cancer. It was time for them to write another.
On october 20 of last year, Hans-Georg Eichler, a clinical pharmacologist and former senior medical officer for the European Medicines Agency, opened up his email to find a message from Michel. The two have known each other for more than a decade. “I hope that you are well,” the message started, “which is not really my case ...” Michel had pasted in a link to a medical report, not yet published. “I am curious to hear your thoughts,” he wrote.
The paper, titled “Rapid Progression of Angioimmunoblastic T Cell Lymphoma Following BNT162b2 mRNA Vaccine Booster Shot” and credited to Serge Goldman, Michel Goldman, and six of their Belgian colleagues, would run in the journal Frontiers in Medicine a few weeks later. (Michel is that journal’s editor in chief; he recused himself from the process of editing and peer review.) It begins by describing “a 66-year-old man with no significant medical history” who had been diagnosed with lymphoma that worsened following a booster dose of COVID-19 vaccine. The Goldmans’ unusual connection to the data—the fact that the 66-year-old man in question was Michel—comes across obliquely in the text. An ethics statement, printed at the end of the case report, includes the line: “Being one of the authors, the patient consented to the publication.”
Eichler, who had closely followed the furor over vaccine-associated blood-clot disorders the previous spring, replied that evening: “I have read the paper and am very impressed … It is the most responsible and courageous thing you could do under the worst possible circumstances.”
“I would say that 95 percent of the reactions were extremely friendly,” Michel told me later. But as he’d feared, anti-vaccine activists picked up on the story. “The lymph nodes of those who have taken these shots are exploding, burgeoning, and bulging with this toxic bioweapon,” a right-wing influencer named Jane Ruby wrote on Telegram beneath a screenshot of Michel’s CT scans, which had appeared in his published paper (and are reproduced in this article). “LYMPHOMA - That’s right… Cancer of the lymphatic system … STOP THIS FROM GETTING INTO BABIES AND CHILDREN!!!!!” Ruby’s claims were amplified on Natural News, among other anti-vaccination sites where, again, the very images that Michel’s brother had used to diagnose his illness were presented as shocking evidence of vaccination’s dangers. “PHOTOS: LYMPHOMA CANCER EXPLODING IN THE BOOSTED,” one website said.
When I told Michel about these online posts, he shook his head in disappointment. “They’re looking for anything to support their crazy vision,” he said. “It makes me sad about the world in which we are living.” That’s not to say he was surprised. Michel knew, for instance, that medical experts have dispelled false rumors about vaccines infecting people with COVID-19. He told me that he’d obsessed over getting the tone of the manuscript exactly right, so as not to fuel vaccine skepticism. He was careful, for example, to describe the vaccine as possibly “inducing” the “progression” of his cancer—rather than “causing” it to surface. “I spent hours and hours,” he said. “I’ve never spent so much time on details in a paper.”
Extremely rare cases like Michel’s create a tricky terrain for science communication. Even a clinical trial with thousands of participants might never turn up a single case of someone's cancer worsening after vaccination. In that context, experts can't assign a statistical estimate of the risk across the wider population. Science journalists may be wary of reporting on the story for that reason. In fact, when Michel first told me about his cancer and about the paper he’d written with his brother, I said that I couldn’t write about it. I was worried that some readers would misinterpret my article, and mistakenly see it as a reason not to get vaccinated. As I write this, I’m still concerned that you might do exactly that.
But the scientific literature is sprinkled with odd cases like Michel’s that have puzzled doctors. The Goldmans’ paper follows earlier isolated reports suggesting a possible link between COVID-19 vaccination and lymphoma. Aaron Mangold, who heads the division of clinical dermatology at the Mayo Clinic in Arizona, co-authored a paper published in May 2021 about a patient whose rare skin lymphoma recurred after his initial Pfizer shot. The tumorous ulcer appeared in the armpit of the same arm in which the man had received the injection, and then regressed spontaneously. A second shot of the vaccine, delivered three weeks later, produced no further lesions, Mangold told me, and the whole ordeal could have simply been a coincidence. He felt that he’d been “threading the needle” to go public with the case report given that uncertainty.
Ladan Zand, a nephrologist at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, faced the same conundrum when she co-authored a paper last year detailing five patients who had a relapse of kidney disease following mRNA COVID vaccination. Her team also documented eight patients who were newly diagnosed with the disease, known as glomerulonephritis, after receiving the shot. But Zand cautions that those patients might have had underlying kidney disease and not been aware of it. People infected with the novel coronavirus also show higher rates of kidney-function decline over time. “I spend half of my visits now asking patients to get vaccinated,” she said. “If you were to compare the risks and benefits, the benefits of the vaccine way outweigh the risk of rare entities that, for the most part, seem to be self-limiting.”
William Murphy, an immunologist at UC Davis, told me that Michel’s before-and-after CT scans were fascinating in the context of the mouse study from Columbia. The cancer’s behavior certainly appeared to be related to the vaccine, he said, “given the huge difference in the scans of the tumor progression in a very short period of time.” But one can’t be certain, however striking the data. It’s just a case report, he added—one patient.
The Goldmans’ paper, for its part, notes that it would be “premature” to extrapolate the findings from Michel to other patients with the same kind of cancer, and that the link, even if it were proved, should not discourage general uptake of “much-needed vaccines.” An unusual paragraph tacked onto the bottom of the article underscores the point. Marked “Patient Perspective,” and written in the third person, it notes that Michel himself “remains convinced that mRNA vaccines represent very efficient products with a favorable benefit-risk ratio,” and that he hopes the report will encourage further research.
In mid-february, Michel spiked a sudden fever. COVID had finally caught up with him. Given that he was immunocompromised by six rounds of cancer chemotherapy, Michel knew that his doctors would need to act quickly. He soon received an infusion of the monoclonal-antibody drug sotrovimab, and managed to recover without incident; his lymph nodes stayed blessedly quiet, and there was no resurgence of his cancer. Now he’s eligible for a second booster shot, but he’s not sure whether he should take it. “I don't know what I will do,” he said.
Would another dose of the vaccine cause another round of cancer lesions? Michel and the scientists who have been in touch with him are still mulling the evidence about whether his original cancer flare was simply a fluke. Steven Horwitz, a medical oncologist at Memorial Sloan Kettering who focuses on the care of patients with lymphoma, has looked more closely at vaccine side effects since hearing about Michel’s case, and feels reassured by what he’s found. “Of our patients who received mRNA COVID vaccines, we have not seen any clearly related and documented relapses or progressions,” he told me via email. Meanwhile, lymphomas and the treatments given for them can weaken the immune system, putting affected patients at higher risk of severe COVID-19 if infected. “Vaccination remains the most effective way to mitigate that risk,” he said.
I reached out to the makers of the mRNA COVID vaccines to ask about Michel’s case. A representative for Pfizer noted that the company takes such reports “very seriously” but that, “to date, there has been no identified correlation between the vaccine and cancer.” Moderna’s chief medical officer, Paul Burton, told me that the company keeps careful track of safety data and has not found any relationship between vaccination and lymphoma. He also pointed to the case of a 61-year-old woman with cancer of the salivary gland whose tumor shrank to about one-quarter of its original size in the month after she received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine. “Now, did it really regress because the person got a messenger RNA vaccine?” he asked. “I don't know. I think biology is truly a remarkable thing."
While Michel remains unsure about his fourth shot, he has continued to be outspoken on the benefits of vaccination overall, and often speaks to Belgian media on the topic. At the same time, he has become a stronger advocate for broader tracking of adverse events from vaccines—an endeavor he and others in drug development call “pharmacovigilance.”
“We need to make sure that some pharmacovigilance programs are powered to detect very, very rare side effects,” Michel told me. Eichler, who was involved in drug regulation for the European Medicines Agency, said that while some doctors may be “aficionados” of randomized controlled trials as the only valid source of medical evidence, other types of information are needed. Michel’s case shows why: You’ve got a patient “who is a professor of medicine, who experiences the side effects and says, ‘Okay, this must be a side effect,’” Eichler said. That “rings the bells. Could Michel have ever come up in an RCT? My answer is probably not.”
Just a few days before Michel got COVID, he had gone back to Serge’s office for yet another set of full-body CT images, to check the status of his cancer. He sat in his brother’s waiting room, as he had last September, while Serge examined the results. This time, though, Serge’s expression was relaxed. The scans were clear.
Michel still has to watch out for a recurrence. And as a longtime immunologist and medical innovator, he’s still considering the question of whether a vaccine that is saving tens of millions of lives each year might have put his own in jeopardy. He remains adamant that COVID-19 vaccines are necessary and useful for the vast majority of people. But he wants the discussion about vaccines to be transparent.
Around the time of his February follow-up, Michel received a message from a doctor who had read his self-referential case report. The doctor’s mother had been diagnosed with the same subtype of lymphoma that Michel has following a COVID booster shot. More recently, he got an email from a woman whose sister had been vaccinated and received that diagnosis the following month. Again, these could be coincidences. Or maybe they are the second and third data points in a growing set. The possible connection between Michel’s lymphoma flare and his COVID-19 vaccination occupies much of his thinking these days. “If it exists, it must be very rare,” he said. But he doesn’t regret going public with his case. “I’m still convinced it was the right thing to do.”
Roxanne Khamsi is a science journalist based in Montreal.
Nothing on the DNA then?
Imagine my shock at you valiantly deflecting from your lies.
Imagine my shock at you valiantly deflecting from your lies.
Along with of course going "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA" in your mind on your previous lie on the licensing status.
So why do you feel the irresistable urge to add the lies, Pokermonster? If the vaccines are so horrible, why won't the truth suffice in your quest against them?
You are describing yourself, old boy.
I have answered your questions several times. If you find the truth uncomfortable, fair enough, but it’s unhealthy to endlessly go around in circles seeking a different solution. At times, you come across as unhinged. Very few folks read this forum, Edy. Nothing you or I write makes a shred of difference to anything. Remember this, sir, and it might help calm your nerves.
“The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.“ Winston Churchill.
I have answered your questions several times. If you find the truth uncomfortable, fair enough, but it’s unhealthy to endlessly go around in circles seeking a different solution. At times, you come across as unhinged. Very few folks read this forum, Edy. Nothing you or I write makes a shred of difference to anything. Remember this, sir, and it might help calm your nerves.
“The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.“ Winston Churchill.
Uhm...dude...people can see that you didn't answer. You realize that, right? You made two unrelated posts since I asked
"edy • October 25, 2022 5:19 PM BST
I see. Would you kind enough to provide what you base it on that people's DNA is being experimented on?"
So even here you just....point blank lie about having answered and do so with incredible brashness. I'm actually wondering if you are just truly unhinged and actually believe you answered or if you are just a very brazen and unashamed liar. Very similar story with the licensing status discussion.
Nothing you or I write makes a shred of difference to anything.
Quite indeed, and yet you seem to find it quite irresistable to lie about the vaccines on your quest against them.
"edy • October 25, 2022 5:19 PM BST
I see. Would you kind enough to provide what you base it on that people's DNA is being experimented on?"
So even here you just....point blank lie about having answered and do so with incredible brashness. I'm actually wondering if you are just truly unhinged and actually believe you answered or if you are just a very brazen and unashamed liar. Very similar story with the licensing status discussion.
Nothing you or I write makes a shred of difference to anything.
Quite indeed, and yet you seem to find it quite irresistable to lie about the vaccines on your quest against them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqnCz_PD6Pk
Perhaps its all just innocent......perhaps not....but surly an investigation and some transparency is due??????????????
Reuters reporting that Pfizer are set to increase the price of each covid jab dose from $110 to $130.
Hike to $110 to $130 in the USA, not from $110. As Reuters also points out when they write about a quadrupled price.
The EU has always been reported to be paying somewhere around €15 to €20.
The EU has always been reported to be paying somewhere around €15 to €20.
Secretly outing yourself as having received a few dozen shots?
Pokermonster • October 25, 2022 11:14 PM BST
I’ve no idea. I didn’t have you pegged as a religious type, dear chap.
I suspect, however, you might be confusing me with another (rather more pious) forum member. Confusion and loss of mental acuity is another nasty side effect of the jab by the way.
Pokermonster • October 25, 2022 11:14 PM BST
I’ve no idea. I didn’t have you pegged as a religious type, dear chap.
I suspect, however, you might be confusing me with another (rather more pious) forum member. Confusion and loss of mental acuity is another nasty side effect of the jab by the way.
Remember the housebound incel gets paid to spout shïte on forums
250,000++ posts of utter dribble on this forum alone ... And he doesn't even bet haha
250,000++ posts of utter dribble on this forum alone ... And he doesn't even bet haha
Timber, just about everyone on this forum has every right to call me a housebound incel - they'd be quite right to assume so, but coming from you it's like Biden making fun of someone who is utterly and completely demented and senile beyond repair.
October 25, 2022 11:43 PM BST
10,000% profit , golden
Much better than the $15-20 flu shot pharma get & more sales
Ireland gives away another (25 million cost) unwanted jabs
Government will seek to delay further orders of Covid-19 vaccines that have already been purchased.jokers
Epic fail twindemic
10,000% profit , golden
Much better than the $15-20 flu shot pharma get & more sales
Ireland gives away another (25 million cost) unwanted jabs
Government will seek to delay further orders of Covid-19 vaccines that have already been purchased.jokers
Epic fail twindemic
the plannedemic was only ever about collapsing the economy to begin the big reset of our lives sadly.
#345afghjuy*+45544#d , pint & nuts please
Health id, digital id says your too fat , alcohol free & bugz
Jamiroquai - Virtual Insanity
Health id, digital id says your too fat , alcohol free & bugz
Jamiroquai - Virtual Insanity
Quadruple jabbed must be petrified, bet they are scared to even close their eyes at night
nineteen points Joined: 18 Feb 02
Replies: 2651426 Oct 22 12:54
the plannedemic was only ever about collapsing the economy to begin the big reset of our lives sadly.
Happening right now, you are spot on to whats going on
Replies: 2651426 Oct 22 12:54
the plannedemic was only ever about collapsing the economy to begin the big reset of our lives sadly.
Happening right now, you are spot on to whats going on
Former Vikings defensive coordinator Adam Zimmer dead at 38
.
https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/vikings/former-vikings-defensive-coordinator-adam-zimmer-dead-at-38
.
https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/vikings/former-vikings-defensive-coordinator-adam-zimmer-dead-at-38
.
https://news.sky.com/story/julie-powell-food-blogger-who-inspired-hit-film-julie-julia-dies-aged-49-12736141
Powell died of cardiac arrest at her home
https://news.sky.com/story/julie-powell-food-blogger-who-inspired-hit-film-julie-julia-dies-aged-49-12736141
Powell died of cardiac arrest at her home
“I Do Not Give a F*ck What Happens to Anti-Vaxxers” – Former Democrat Congressional Candidate Who Criticized Anti-Vaxxers Dies Unexpectedly After Bragging About Vaccination Status on Social Media
Safe and Effective : A Second Opinion is available to view on Rumble if anyone would care to watch it.
The documentary was removed by YouTube quite recently just before it reached the million-view milestone.
The documentary was removed by YouTube quite recently just before it reached the million-view milestone.
Last week, a hospital memo leaked by a nurse in California revealed how one hospital is experiencing a dramatic rise in stillbirths.
The hospital, which used to see an “average of 1-2 [stillbirths] every 3 months” was now seeing upwards of 22 per month
The hospital, which used to see an “average of 1-2 [stillbirths] every 3 months” was now seeing upwards of 22 per month
Irregularheartbeat 
first run 
youtube.com/watch?v=ST2H8FWDvEA
first run youtube.com/watch?v=ST2H8FWDvEA
More excess deaths weekly now than in March 2020.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGZJfVR9-wo
Yet the media remain slient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGZJfVR9-wo
Yet the media remain slient.
If you haven’t seen it already, Mr F, check out the documentary I mentioned above.
Blaming eccess deaths on the heatwave during the summer.
Autumn excess deaths will be attributed to it being very wet.
Winter excess deaths will be because folk were reluctant/unable to fire up the radiators.
That will tide the talking heads over until next Spring
simples!
Autumn excess deaths will be attributed to it being very wet.
Winter excess deaths will be because folk were reluctant/unable to fire up the radiators.
That will tide the talking heads over until next Spring
simples!
Some cannot bring themselves to even consider that the contracting the virus may have more long term consequences than previously thought.
The excess deaths need investigating - I agree to that.
The excess deaths need investigating - I agree to that.
How would you price it up ? Main cause of excess deaths - Vaccines ? Virus ? - anything else void.
Johnny considering the figures that came out this week showing 16000 missed early stage cancers in ONE health trust ive a fair idea what is making up a lot of excess deaths.
The normal male unemployed flatearters keep desperately trying to link any death to a vaccine without providing any evidence.
So are those who are petrified to have a vaccine claiming that the excess deaths in U.K. are only happening in those who had a vaccine & death rate in the unvaccinated is normal for their age.
Obviously no evidence shown to support this theory.
The NHS is a mess , if people cared about excess deaths they could pay income tax/NI & even get some Private health insurance to ease the burden on NHS.
So are those who are petrified to have a vaccine claiming that the excess deaths in U.K. are only happening in those who had a vaccine & death rate in the unvaccinated is normal for their age.
Obviously no evidence shown to support this theory.
The NHS is a mess , if people cared about excess deaths they could pay income tax/NI & even get some Private health insurance to ease the burden on NHS.
'petrified to have a vaccine '
Lmao, jibyjabbers thinking they are tough as teak
Lmao, jibyjabbers thinking they are tough as teak
https://news.sky.com/story/julie-powell-food-blogger-who-inspired-hit-film-julie-julia-dies-aged-49-12736141
Powell died of cardiac arrest at her home
Twas the black hairy tongue that did for her
Powell died of cardiac arrest at her home
Twas the black hairy tongue that did for her
Nov 3, 2022 -- 2:53PM, Mexico wrote:
The normal male unemployed flatearters keep desperately trying to link any death to a vaccine without providing any evidence.So are those who are petrified to have a vaccine claiming that the excess deaths in U.K. are only happening in those who had a vaccine & death rate in the unvaccinated is normal for their age.Obviously no evidence shown to support this theory.The NHS is a mess , if people cared about excess deaths they could pay income tax/NI & even get some Private health insurance to ease the burden on NHS.
'The NHS is a mess'.
Correct.
I know people who used to see a cardiologist every 6 months for a check up that have not seen one now for three years.
People are waiting at home for heart operation dates for months that used to happen within weeks.
You can throw all the money you like at the NHS but there not enough trained specialists in the world to allow for the fact they did not work for months/years on end due to the measures taken due to the overreaction to Covid.
There are not enough operating theatres, not enough scanners and above all not enough trained people.
All the backlog will take years to catch up if ever. I doubt we will ever get back to what it was before. And that is before we take into account that having Covid/Jab might cause more people to have cardiac issues down the line.
We now have around 300 excess cardiac deaths a week in the UK and more total excess deaths a week now than in 2020 or 2021.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-63486547
NHS disruption driving rise in heart deaths, charity says
Extreme disruption to NHS services has been driving a sharp spike in heart disease deaths since the start of the pandemic, a charity has warned.
The British Heart Foundation (BHF) said ambulance delays, inaccessible care and waits for surgery are linked to 30,000 excess cardiac deaths in England.
It has called for a new strategy to reduce "unacceptable" waiting times.
The government has said it is investing another £500m to ease pressure on ambulances and boost hospital capacity.
The BHF said its analysis suggests 395,000 people in England could be on a waiting list for a heart test or procedure by April 2023 based on current trends, up from 224,000 before the start of the Covid pandemic.
In August, Phil Moore, a former professional skier, had a heart attack as he was walking to his car after a shopping trip.
The 50-year-old from Kent said: "It came on very suddenly, with no warning, and I felt very, very sick."
He rang 999 twice but said he had to wait about 40 minutes for an ambulance as he faded in and out of consciousness.
"You worry about it afterwards but at that stage, all your focus is just on surviving," he said.
Paramedics arrived and took Mr Moore, who used to work for the BHF, to an emergency cardiac unit in Ashford for angioplasty - a procedure that widens a blocked artery so blood can flow more easily.
"It was very scary, because it goes through your mind that I want to speak to my wife again, I want to speak to my children again, but you don't know if you're going to."
Doctors and groups representing patients have become increasingly concerned about the high number of deaths of any cause recorded this year.
Data from the Office for National Statistics suggests the overall number was 17% higher in England than would have been expected in the week ending 21 October, based on the average for previous years.
Some of that rise can still be explained by Covid, which was mentioned on 523 death certificates in England over the week of 14 October.
Another factor could be the ageing population. The headline excess deaths data does not take into account the fact that there are now more older people. This may be responsible for more than half of the total excess.
Waiting lists and ambulance delays
New analysis of the mortality data by the BHF suggests heart disease is among the most common causes, responsible for 230 deaths a week above expected rates since February 2020.
The charity said "significant and widespread" disruption to heart care services was driving the increase.
Its analysis of NHS data showed that 346,129 people were waiting for time-sensitive cardiac care at the end of August 2022, up 49% since February 2020.
It said 7,467 patients had been waiting more than a year for a heart procedure - 267 times higher than before the pandemic.
At the same time, the average ambulance response time for a suspected heart attack has risen to 48 minutes in England against a target of 18 minutes, according to the latest NHS figures.
The BHF said difficulty accessing face-to-face GP and hospital care may have also contributed to the rise.
It cited modelling from NHS England which suggested the drop in people having their blood pressure checked because of Covid could lead to an extra 11,190 heart attacks and 17,702 strokes over three years.
Dr Charmaine Griffiths, the BHF's chief executive, said: "It is devastating that the ongoing and extreme disruption to heart care has meant that 30,000 more families have lost a loved one.
"Many hundreds of thousands of people fear that their heart condition could get worse before they get treatment - potentially stopping them from working or enjoying a full life. Many more are completely unaware they now have a condition putting them at a greater risk of early death from a heart attack or stroke."
The charity is calling for a new national heart strategy to cut waiting times for GP appointments, address staff shortages in cardiac care and increase investment in medical research.
The Department of Health said the NHS has made progress tackling the longest treatment backlogs with waits of more than two years "virtually eliminated".
A spokesman added: "We're improving care and outcomes for people with heart disease by opening over 80 community diagnostic centres across the country, which have already delivered over two million additional checks.
"We recognise the pressures ambulances are facing and we've set out a range of measures to help ease this, including an extra £500m to speed up discharge and free up hospital beds, reduce waits in A&E and get ambulances quickly back out on the road."
NHS disruption driving rise in heart deaths, charity says
Extreme disruption to NHS services has been driving a sharp spike in heart disease deaths since the start of the pandemic, a charity has warned.
The British Heart Foundation (BHF) said ambulance delays, inaccessible care and waits for surgery are linked to 30,000 excess cardiac deaths in England.
It has called for a new strategy to reduce "unacceptable" waiting times.
The government has said it is investing another £500m to ease pressure on ambulances and boost hospital capacity.
The BHF said its analysis suggests 395,000 people in England could be on a waiting list for a heart test or procedure by April 2023 based on current trends, up from 224,000 before the start of the Covid pandemic.
In August, Phil Moore, a former professional skier, had a heart attack as he was walking to his car after a shopping trip.
The 50-year-old from Kent said: "It came on very suddenly, with no warning, and I felt very, very sick."
He rang 999 twice but said he had to wait about 40 minutes for an ambulance as he faded in and out of consciousness.
"You worry about it afterwards but at that stage, all your focus is just on surviving," he said.
Paramedics arrived and took Mr Moore, who used to work for the BHF, to an emergency cardiac unit in Ashford for angioplasty - a procedure that widens a blocked artery so blood can flow more easily.
"It was very scary, because it goes through your mind that I want to speak to my wife again, I want to speak to my children again, but you don't know if you're going to."
Doctors and groups representing patients have become increasingly concerned about the high number of deaths of any cause recorded this year.
Data from the Office for National Statistics suggests the overall number was 17% higher in England than would have been expected in the week ending 21 October, based on the average for previous years.
Some of that rise can still be explained by Covid, which was mentioned on 523 death certificates in England over the week of 14 October.
Another factor could be the ageing population. The headline excess deaths data does not take into account the fact that there are now more older people. This may be responsible for more than half of the total excess.
Waiting lists and ambulance delays
New analysis of the mortality data by the BHF suggests heart disease is among the most common causes, responsible for 230 deaths a week above expected rates since February 2020.
The charity said "significant and widespread" disruption to heart care services was driving the increase.
Its analysis of NHS data showed that 346,129 people were waiting for time-sensitive cardiac care at the end of August 2022, up 49% since February 2020.
It said 7,467 patients had been waiting more than a year for a heart procedure - 267 times higher than before the pandemic.
At the same time, the average ambulance response time for a suspected heart attack has risen to 48 minutes in England against a target of 18 minutes, according to the latest NHS figures.
The BHF said difficulty accessing face-to-face GP and hospital care may have also contributed to the rise.
It cited modelling from NHS England which suggested the drop in people having their blood pressure checked because of Covid could lead to an extra 11,190 heart attacks and 17,702 strokes over three years.
Dr Charmaine Griffiths, the BHF's chief executive, said: "It is devastating that the ongoing and extreme disruption to heart care has meant that 30,000 more families have lost a loved one.
"Many hundreds of thousands of people fear that their heart condition could get worse before they get treatment - potentially stopping them from working or enjoying a full life. Many more are completely unaware they now have a condition putting them at a greater risk of early death from a heart attack or stroke."
The charity is calling for a new national heart strategy to cut waiting times for GP appointments, address staff shortages in cardiac care and increase investment in medical research.
The Department of Health said the NHS has made progress tackling the longest treatment backlogs with waits of more than two years "virtually eliminated".
A spokesman added: "We're improving care and outcomes for people with heart disease by opening over 80 community diagnostic centres across the country, which have already delivered over two million additional checks.
"We recognise the pressures ambulances are facing and we've set out a range of measures to help ease this, including an extra £500m to speed up discharge and free up hospital beds, reduce waits in A&E and get ambulances quickly back out on the road."
Those who pushed for lockdowns and the shutting down of other healthcare for a disease that had a less that 0.1% infection fatality rate in under 70s should be held to account.
There’s a rumour on Twitter that there has been a sharp increase in people with blue eyes dying in the care of NHS. Some suggesting that they do not receive the same level of care. Doubt it’s true though tbh
Frog
We could improve the health care system in U.K. if we wanted to.
Increase tax, cut “not vital” services NHS offers, reduce eligibility, charge people to use NHS, encourage more private insurance, save money in other government spending areas I.e. reduce benefits to long term unemployed, reassess eligibility of social housing every X years etc. etc. etc.
But none of it will be popular. We can’t have a world class health service unless we pay for it. Anybody who cares about their health in U.K. will investigate health insurance, will be too expensive for many but not for all.
Frog
The death rate of Covid was based on people getting treatment when they needed it. It would be highly if your “let it rip” plan was allowed.
A decent vaccine allowed the U.K. & rest of Europe to open up , there are still many thousands of Covid deaths a year but nhs can almost cope.
We could improve the health care system in U.K. if we wanted to.
Increase tax, cut “not vital” services NHS offers, reduce eligibility, charge people to use NHS, encourage more private insurance, save money in other government spending areas I.e. reduce benefits to long term unemployed, reassess eligibility of social housing every X years etc. etc. etc.
But none of it will be popular. We can’t have a world class health service unless we pay for it. Anybody who cares about their health in U.K. will investigate health insurance, will be too expensive for many but not for all.
Frog
The death rate of Covid was based on people getting treatment when they needed it. It would be highly if your “let it rip” plan was allowed.
A decent vaccine allowed the U.K. & rest of Europe to open up , there are still many thousands of Covid deaths a year but nhs can almost cope.
I am talking about the shutting down of the nhs for everything bar covid. empty doctors. no operations. no consultations.
even if we doubled capicity (we cannot) it will take two years to catch up the missed 2 years.
In the meantime tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of excess deathes due to the backlog.
In the meantime tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of excess deathes due to the backlog.
Sweden did have restrictions & didn’t have s**t loads of people coming from overseas.
Sweden didn’t do too well compared to neighbours
U.K. had a soft & late “lockdown “ compared to neighbours in Europe.
Frog does your plan, involve removing the millions you wouldn’t follow any health “guidelines “ from U.K.? Would it involve removing London from U.K. and replacing with a lower density city such as Stockholm?
We could improve the U.K. healthcare system if we really wanted to, there just isn’t the will to do it.
Sweden didn’t do too well compared to neighbours
U.K. had a soft & late “lockdown “ compared to neighbours in Europe.
Frog does your plan, involve removing the millions you wouldn’t follow any health “guidelines “ from U.K.? Would it involve removing London from U.K. and replacing with a lower density city such as Stockholm?
We could improve the U.K. healthcare system if we really wanted to, there just isn’t the will to do it.
Frog
Your crazy let it rip system would also have created a massive backlog.
Won’t be much cancer treatment when every hospital is overflowing with people needing treatment for Covid.
U.K. had “soft “ restrictions compared to much of Europe. For some reason UK is near top of the league for deaths.
Just spend more on healthcare if we want better healthcare. Plenty of private insurance around of those who are bothered about their health.
Your crazy let it rip system would also have created a massive backlog.
Won’t be much cancer treatment when every hospital is overflowing with people needing treatment for Covid.
U.K. had “soft “ restrictions compared to much of Europe. For some reason UK is near top of the league for deaths.
Just spend more on healthcare if we want better healthcare. Plenty of private insurance around of those who are bothered about their health.
Timber
As usual absolute garbage
Care to explain how the NHS would treat cancer if hospitals were full up & cancer patients were considered high risk of getting very I’ll/dying from Covid.
If you are worried about cancer then I suggest you take out insurance.
The U.K. could improve the healthcare system, we chose not to. We would rather house long term unemployed than pay some more decent consultants at £150k a year , and generally spend more on health.
That is our choice as a country.
As usual absolute garbage
Care to explain how the NHS would treat cancer if hospitals were full up & cancer patients were considered high risk of getting very I’ll/dying from Covid.
If you are worried about cancer then I suggest you take out insurance.
The U.K. could improve the healthcare system, we chose not to. We would rather house long term unemployed than pay some more decent consultants at £150k a year , and generally spend more on health.
That is our choice as a country.
Full up from what? Covid?? Do me a favour
I've got BUPA, I'm fine thanks
I've got BUPA, I'm fine thanks
Timber
Of course the hospitals would have been full up of Covid patients without initially social distancing and later through immunity from vaccine & previous infections.
Will be a judge led review out in 2-3 years, my money is on that government response was not enough restrictions rather than too many. We shall see.
Very sensible to have private insurance, the NHS is a mess & there isn’t the will in the country to fix it.
Of course the hospitals would have been full up of Covid patients without initially social distancing and later through immunity from vaccine & previous infections.
Will be a judge led review out in 2-3 years, my money is on that government response was not enough restrictions rather than too many. We shall see.
Very sensible to have private insurance, the NHS is a mess & there isn’t the will in the country to fix it.
Timber
These “death shots” are the reason UK ended social distancing restrictions. You may be a lockdown fan but most of the country wanted to get on with life.
If you are petrified of dying from a vaccine then so be it, it isn’t compulsory so no need to take it if you are scared it will kill you.
These “death shots” are the reason UK ended social distancing restrictions. You may be a lockdown fan but most of the country wanted to get on with life.
If you are petrified of dying from a vaccine then so be it, it isn’t compulsory so no need to take it if you are scared it will kill you.
We could have ended up with NHS busted by covid - too many patients all in isolation wards - staff off work with the virus. Not enough PPE, equipment.
Viruses rip through hospitals once they get in there.
The nightmare double whammy - an increase in short term death numbers , and a busted NHS with no capacity for doing anything else - and the same long term problems.
I've no idea what the percentage chance was of NHS failure without restrictions , but even it was 10% , can a PM really take that chance ?
As death numbers increase what politician is going to get away with "I know 10s of 000's are dying right now but trust me , less will die over the longer term, and we will save lots of money " especially as the rest of the world does something else.
Viruses rip through hospitals once they get in there.
The nightmare double whammy - an increase in short term death numbers , and a busted NHS with no capacity for doing anything else - and the same long term problems.
I've no idea what the percentage chance was of NHS failure without restrictions , but even it was 10% , can a PM really take that chance ?
As death numbers increase what politician is going to get away with "I know 10s of 000's are dying right now but trust me , less will die over the longer term, and we will save lots of money " especially as the rest of the world does something else.
There is reason that government’s take advice regarding virus from people who have studied the subject & experience of the subject rather than taking advice from you-tube “experts “ who can’t provide any evidence to back up their advice.
Will be a judge led review out in 2-3 years, my money is on that government response was not enough restrictions rather than too many. We shall see.
No wonder you are crying about a few lies being removed from social media. Have you experienced any posts being removed from Betfair for breaking the Contract you agreed to?
Will be a judge led review out in 2-3 years, my money is on that government response was not enough restrictions rather than too many. We shall see.
No wonder you are crying about a few lies being removed from social media. Have you experienced any posts being removed from Betfair for breaking the Contract you agreed to?
Circuit breakers
Putting sick into care homes ,
Jabbing healthy people
Bubbles
Sacking health-care workers
Models predicting doom
experts
Epic
Putting sick into care homes ,
Jabbing healthy people
Bubbles
Sacking health-care workers
Models predicting doom
experts
Epic
experience of the subject?
read your earlier tosh mex,you contradict yourself there old boy.
read your earlier tosh mex,you contradict yourself there old boy.
Nov 4, 2022 -- 5:59AM, Mexico wrote:
Sweden did have restrictions & didn’t have s**t loads of people coming from overseas. Sweden didn’t do too well compared to neighbours U.K. had a soft & late “lockdown “ compared to neighbours in Europe. Frog does your plan, involve removing the millions you wouldn’t follow any health “guidelines “ from U.K.? Would it involve removing London from U.K. and replacing with a lower density city such as Stockholm?We could improve the U.K. healthcare system if we really wanted to, there just isn’t the will to do it.
There was no need to close outpatient buildings and send the cardiac consulatants home.
Same with cancer.
These buildings were not used for 'covid' patients. They were just shuttered.
It was a massive mistake.
Frog
You are making these very specific claims about events you claim happened years ago.
Yet you don’t provide any details or any evidence.
Frog, you should remember that not everybody on this forum is as obsessed with Covid and posting misleading information as you are. How is anybody supposed to know what you are on about, how widespread this was & the reasoning behind the decision.
If the country cares about healthcare then it is possible to improve it. Just decide who pays, either through cuts elsewhere or increase taxes/ increase private care.
The U.K. doesn’t seem that bothered about our very average healthcare system.
You are making these very specific claims about events you claim happened years ago.
Yet you don’t provide any details or any evidence.
Frog, you should remember that not everybody on this forum is as obsessed with Covid and posting misleading information as you are. How is anybody supposed to know what you are on about, how widespread this was & the reasoning behind the decision.
If the country cares about healthcare then it is possible to improve it. Just decide who pays, either through cuts elsewhere or increase taxes/ increase private care.
The U.K. doesn’t seem that bothered about our very average healthcare system.
Should really deport jabbers under 65 to China
Viruses rip through hospitals once they get in there.. Unstoppable
Viruses rip through hospitals once they get in there.
. Unstoppable
Nov 4, 2022 -- 10:39AM, Mexico wrote:
FrogYou are making these very specific claims about events you claim happened years ago.Yet you don’t provide any details or any evidence.Frog, you should remember that not everybody on this forum is as obsessed with Covid and posting misleading information as you are. How is anybody supposed to know what you are on about, how widespread this was & the reasoning behind the decision.If the country cares about healthcare then it is possible to improve it. Just decide who pays, either through cuts elsewhere or increase taxes/ increase private care.The U.K. doesn’t seem that bothered about our very average healthcare system.
Specific evidence, I know people that had 6 monthly reviews with their consultant cardiologists for years up to the pandemic that have not had an appointment since the end of 2019.
The regular outpatient appointments stopped in March 2020 and have never restarted.
Specific evidence, the number of people that have been waiting more than a year for a heart procedure is 267 times higher than before the pandemic.
Mexico, it is ok for you to admit that not every policy carried about by whitty, vallance, hancock and the gang was good.
Nov 4, 2022 -- 10:39AM, Mexico wrote:
FrogYou are making these very specific claims about events you claim happened years ago.Yet you don’t provide any details or any evidence.Frog, you should remember that not everybody on this forum is as obsessed with Covid and posting misleading information as you are. How is anybody supposed to know what you are on about, how widespread this was & the reasoning behind the decision.If the country cares about healthcare then it is possible to improve it. Just decide who pays, either through cuts elsewhere or increase taxes/ increase private care.The U.K. doesn’t seem that bothered about our very average healthcare system.
The country has lost a year or possibily 2 in terms of cancer and cardiac care.
It is not something we will be able to buy ourselves out of anytime soon. The staff to work through the backlog do not exist.
Frog
Having already pointed out you post misleading evidence you post this…
Specific evidence, the number of people that have been waiting more than a year for a heart procedure is 267 times higher than before the pandemic.
It is meaningless & again missing any link to the evidence.
If pre pandemic only 2 people waited a year but is now 500 , so what..
If pre Covid, 10,000 people waited a year but is now 2.6million then there is a serious problem.
If U.K. wants better healthcare then it is possible to deliver, Need to find more money from somewhere. The NHS isn’t very good but seems to be very difficult to reform. It tries to provide every healthcare service but is struggling to provide the important bits.
Having already pointed out you post misleading evidence you post this…
Specific evidence, the number of people that have been waiting more than a year for a heart procedure is 267 times higher than before the pandemic.
It is meaningless & again missing any link to the evidence.
If pre pandemic only 2 people waited a year but is now 500 , so what..
If pre Covid, 10,000 people waited a year but is now 2.6million then there is a serious problem.
If U.K. wants better healthcare then it is possible to deliver, Need to find more money from somewhere. The NHS isn’t very good but seems to be very difficult to reform. It tries to provide every healthcare service but is struggling to provide the important bits.
Frog
I’ve never claimed that every policy was good.
The government were totally clueless in Autumn 2020. They spend months arguing about the need to keep everything open before reality overtook the cabinet.
Government will try to delay report publication until after next election as it won’t be kind. Likely to suggest “lockdown “ were too soft and too late. Was known from day1 that needed the vaccine to get things back on track. Most people had the vaccine so country could open up. There were a few petrified individuals who would prefer lockdowns to having a vaccine.
I’ve never claimed that every policy was good.
The government were totally clueless in Autumn 2020. They spend months arguing about the need to keep everything open before reality overtook the cabinet.
Government will try to delay report publication until after next election as it won’t be kind. Likely to suggest “lockdown “ were too soft and too late. Was known from day1 that needed the vaccine to get things back on track. Most people had the vaccine so country could open up. There were a few petrified individuals who would prefer lockdowns to having a vaccine.
Frog
The country didn’t lose 2 years of cancer care because of social distancing. It would have lost cancer care if Covid was allowed to overwhelm the hospitals.
The country didn’t lose 2 years of cancer care because of social distancing. It would have lost cancer care if Covid was allowed to overwhelm the hospitals.
Nov 4, 2022 -- 11:52AM, Mexico wrote:
FrogThe country didn’t lose 2 years of cancer care because of social distancing. It would have lost cancer care if Covid was allowed to overwhelm the hospitals.
What are you talking about Mexico? No cancer outpatient cnetre or cardiac outpatient centre anywhere in the world was overwhelmed by Covid patients.
Why did you get this idea that Covid patients in A&E and on the wards would make any difference to outpatient appointments?
Did someone mention United kingdom of China
youtube.com/watch?v=XCq9WBs6gzU
youtube.com/watch?v=XCq9WBs6gzU
frog1000
04 Nov 22 09:12
Joined: 25 Jan 01
| Topic/replies: 4,254 | Blogger: frog1000's blog
Those who pushed for lockdowns and the shutting down of other healthcare for a disease that had a less that 0.1% infection fatality rate in under 70s should be held to account.
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nineteen points
nineteen points
04 Nov 22 10:03
Joined: 18 Feb 02
| Topic/replies: 26,529 | Blogger: nineteen points's blog
100% correct frog
yes and yes
04 Nov 22 09:12
Joined: 25 Jan 01
| Topic/replies: 4,254 | Blogger: frog1000's blog
Those who pushed for lockdowns and the shutting down of other healthcare for a disease that had a less that 0.1% infection fatality rate in under 70s should be held to account.
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nineteen points
nineteen points
04 Nov 22 10:03
Joined: 18 Feb 02
| Topic/replies: 26,529 | Blogger: nineteen points's blog
100% correct frog
yes and yes
Timber
04 Nov 22 11:25
Joined: 30 Oct 20
| Topic/replies: 10,339 | Blogger: Timber's blog
We chose covid over cancer for two years, well done
and
yep
04 Nov 22 11:25
Joined: 30 Oct 20
| Topic/replies: 10,339 | Blogger: Timber's blog
We chose covid over cancer for two years, well done
and
yep
one thing never seems mentioned but to me you cant measure it or pay for it.we lost a whole 2 years of our lives. we lost these because incompetent idiots made up rules on the spur of the moment with no evidence or data.guessed their way through and cost us our livlehoods and futures.
these chancers,guessers and liars should pay
these chancers,guessers and liars should pay
19
If you actually believe you lost 2 years of your life because of incompetent idiots, perhaps you should look in the mirror.
How is your job hunting coming on 19, is it 3 years now?
If you actually believe you lost 2 years of your life because of incompetent idiots, perhaps you should look in the mirror.
How is your job hunting coming on 19, is it 3 years now?
Its interesting how people who supported lockdowns love discussing nonsense about vaccination dangers but ignore the facts about deaths caused by the restrictions they supported.
Dot
Those who decided on the soft & late social distancing restrictions were fully aware of the health implications of the measures. That may well explain why the restrictions were soft and late.
Thankfully many millions had a vaccine so Europe could open up .
U.K. seem happy enough that Covid resulted in tens of thousands of deaths this year, life goes on & few thousand deaths seems an acceptable toll.
Those who decided on the soft & late social distancing restrictions were fully aware of the health implications of the measures. That may well explain why the restrictions were soft and late.
Thankfully many millions had a vaccine so Europe could open up .
U.K. seem happy enough that Covid resulted in tens of thousands of deaths this year, life goes on & few thousand deaths seems an acceptable toll.
Disgraceful and hugely inaccurate post. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Yes dot
You continue to post some bizarre “new truth “ and just disagree with anyone who. calls you out.
Make sure you never post any links to any evidence.
Keep up the conspiracy theory.
Well done.
You continue to post some bizarre “new truth “ and just disagree with anyone who. calls you out.
Make sure you never post any links to any evidence.
Keep up the conspiracy theory.
Well done.
Im not into conspiracy theories one bit. All I have quoted is a NHS hospital trust that has been widely reported this week in main papers and on main news. Why dont you try responding in a sensible manner. I repeat what I said earlier. Total disgrace.
Nov 4, 2022 -- 5:10PM, Mexico wrote:
DotThose who decided on the soft & late social distancing restrictions were fully aware of the health implications of the measures. That may well explain why the restrictions were soft and late.Thankfully many millions had a vaccine so Europe could open up . U.K. seem happy enough that Covid resulted in tens of thousands of deaths this year, life goes on &
'millions had a vaccine so Europe could open up'
Do you genuine believe this? Yet areas with no vaccines like large parts of Africa doing just fine.
Do you genuine believe this? Yet areas with no vaccines like large parts of Africa doing just fine.
Nov 4, 2022 -- 5:10PM, Mexico wrote:
DotThose who decided on the soft & late social distancing restrictions were fully aware of the health implications of the measures. That may well explain why the restrictions were soft and late.Thankfully many millions had a vaccine so Europe could open up . U.K. seem happy enough that Covid resulted in tens of thousands of deaths this year, life goes on &
I think it's a huge leap to assume that the officials who imposed social distancing and lockdowns are actually competent enough at their job and capable at the time of understanding long term effects of a black swan event they never expected to happen.. I'm sure some do but you hastily overlooked the ineptitude of ppl in power.. it's not some conspiracy where all the governments are colluding and know what would happen. maybe certain governments though
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