Pfizer vaccine 90% efficacy rate

Well this thread has gone true to form

Left = agree with something official
Right = disagree with something official.

nothing more to see here, move on.

The right is generally hugely respectful of official guidelines and science. It's just that we have very few of them left on here as the sensible ones are all too ashamed to show their faces with the cringe-righters having taken over the narrative of what a right-winger is.

I mean, would you show your face if everyone else associates you with the guy that thinks the test for corona just shows exosomes that have been released by your body after exposure to 5G and other hazards?

wot happened to flu and all the other killer diseases

having a gap year.be back after vaccine sorts the covid out.

Fatslogger , You are welcome to disagree with my findings . Please do not try to belittle me . If you can find one post , on Covid 19 where I have

been wrong , then please point it out . Everything I have forecasted has happened . I took time to research . Once you have the answer , the rest of

the pieces fall into place .

I am neither left or right but the evidence is so overwhelming that I will be amazed if I am wrong .

Are there really studies that show vaccines (and especially an entirely new kind of vaccine - like the mRNA vaccine this thread is about) generally lose their entire effectiveness if a person is vitamin D deficient, eyeball?

So that's the cure then all along....a bottle of Sunny Delight ?

£1.99 as well............we're free!!!!

vaccine only tested on under 55s with no underlying health conditions.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590098620300385

Edy , to my knowledge there are no studies that show that . There are also no studies that do not . I have no doubt the vaccine will produce

antibodies but if the patient is deficient in vitamin D then the body will still attack itself . There is no break or accelerator .

The government have decided to supply the most "at risk" with Vitamin D . This , as I understand , will take place in the near future . Their is

also a clinical trial being carried out by Queen Mary University which began 27th October and has 5440 participants .

It seems unconceivable that well regarded scientists throughout the world have been ignored . Maybe the fix is too cheap ?

If the Virus is a Success Team JO-VID will be hailed as champions

Vaccine

If its not and we have Disastrous figures going forward , All down to Trump

Trump and Dr. Fauci both take vitamin D supplements .

If you are not aware of any studies showing that vitamin d deficiency dramatically reduces the effectiveness of vaccines, and you say that you have no doubts the body will produce antibodies, how can you speak in certainty that the vaccine "not work correctly" and that the people at risk will still die whilst thinking they have immunity?

As for studies, there has e.g been this

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6375825/

Our data demonstrate for the first time that Vit-D supplementation in deficient elderly persons promotes a higher TGFβ plasma level in response to influenza vaccination without improving antibody production. The Vit-D supplementation seems to direct the lymphocyte polarization toward a tolerogenic immune response as suggested by the lower Th1/Th2 ratio compared to controls. Taken together, our results suggest that vitamin D supplementation in deficient elderly persons is not an effective way to improve their antibody response to influenza vaccine. A deeper characterization of metabolic and molecular pathways of these observations will aid in the understanding of vitamin D's effects on cell-mediated immunity in deficient elderly persons.

or this meta-review

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946194/

5. Conclusions
Our study suggests that VDD is not associated with the immunogenic response to influenza vaccination based on the currently available data. Routine correction of VDD to enhance the immunogenicity of influenza vaccination is not recommended. However, strain-specific differences may exist, and VDD may attenuate the immune response to strain A/H3N2 and strain B following influenza vaccination. Adjuvant vitamin D supplementation may improve the immunogenic response to specific strains. Further studies are warranted to elucidate the influence of VDD on individual vaccine strains and the impact of vitamin D supplementation.


...now, I'm not arguing against vitamin D. It's an awesome little thing, but I do take some offence at your portrayal of it as the be all cure for all of our ills. Like with many things in life, it will play its rule, it may well improve your immune response in general and more specifically to SARS-CoV-2, but from what I have seen I have major doubts that a deficiency will render vaccines useless, I have major doubts that it's a miracle prevention for illness in isolation, I have major doubts we wouldn't even be talking about covid-19 if everyone had adequate vitamin D status.

Edy , It's good you have an open mind . As I said , the problem is not with the production of antibodies . It is the T cells .

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100307215534.htm

That’s a hypothesis about mechanism, not evidence of clinical effectiveness. The meta analyses of vitamin D supplementation on respiratory tract infection show pretty weak effects. It may well have a role in all sorts of immune processes but it’s not even close to being as important as you say.

In your opinion .

Double dip needed.
Strawberries were better.

Lilly signed an agreement with the US government to deliver 300,000 doses of the antibody, for which it is being paid $375 million.

This means each dose will cost $1,250 - but will be provided for free to the general public.

The Trump administration also has the option to buy an additional 650,000 doses for $812.5 million.
However, company officials have still not revealed what the safety concerns were, or how many hospitalized participants were affected, after a pause was recommended by an independent safety board. 
Lol.lol.lol.
It's a FREE FOR ALL.
HOPE YA WERE ALL ON-BOARD.
BUY LOW SELL HIGH.
420BILLION ADDED TO MARKET .LOL.LOL.LOL.

Think u might need to check your maths there.

and its also about antibody treatment and not vaccine.

Nov 10, 2020 -- 12:20AM, eyeball wrote:

In your opinion .

No, the meta analyses aren’t in my opinion. That’s kind of the point about meta analysis. You need to look at actual trials of treatment, really double blinded trials, rather than non causal associations and lab stuff about immune mediation. There was loads of excitement about vitamin D 15 or so years ago but the actual evidence of benefit from trials of supplementation is not much better than marginal.

There’s a very famous story of how a set of well constructed treatment trials into using drugs post heart attack to reduce extra heart beats demonstrated that what had seemed like very sensible practice based on mechanism was actually killing large numbers of patients.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199103213241201

You don’t just need evidence, you need the right kind of evidence.

Covid-19-hit Irish companies put on over €2.5bn in market value, riding a €420bn global stocks buying spree, after Pfizer and BioNTech

Shares in Ryanair, AIB, and Bank of Ireland, as well as Dalata Hotel and Irish Ferries-owner ICG, soared within minutes


BARROWBOY • November 10, 2020 10:03 AM GMT
Think u might need to check your maths there
Specsavers do 2 for 1.?

Another American vaccine breakthrough , Moderna 94.5 % effective
credit where credit is due the world says thank you American president Trump and people and American pharma

I don’t think that’s quite what the world is saying, lfc. Still good news though. Will be a lot easier to vaccinate decent numbers of people if several of the vaccines become available, especially vaccines that won’t compete with one another for raw materials.

some folk will be rubbing their hands thinking of the money to be made from this pandemic.

You may be right fatslogger the liberals and leftists don’t know how to be thankful
maybe it will give them a nasty rash

Nov 16, 2020 -- 4:38PM, nineteen points wrote:

some folk will be rubbing their hands thinking of the money to be made from this pandemic.

A lot of folk have been rubbing their hands all along, especially folk with the inside track to the top levels of the Tory Party.

Lfc, I’ll be sure to tell you.

normal people should get the vaccine sooner

Nov 16, 2020 -- 4:51PM, lfc1971 wrote:

normal people should get the vaccine sooner

As opposed to the abnormal people who are currently at the front of the queue?

That’s you fatslogger of course
but also if you are not prepared to say thankyou America
then you don’t deserve the vaccine

for safety reasons and maybe out of a sense of self preservation can i be at the back of the queue please?

* sorry fl I meant you are one of the normal people

19 if you don’t want the vaccine that’s ok
Don’t expect the nhs to treat you if you fall ill

I’m very happy to have the vaccine despite you not feeling I deserve it, lfc. If anything that will make the very slightly painful arm, the very remote possibility of a rash and the immunity to SARS-CoV2 ever so slightly sweeter.

Oh and of course the NHS should treat people who choose to decline taking a vaccine. Health care’s job is not to make moral judgements about people’s decisions.

no I wasn’t making any personal references to yourself fatslogger
It’s just a general point

Nov 16, 2020 -- 5:12PM, lfc1971 wrote:

no I wasn’t making any personal references to yourself fatslogger It’s just a general point

I know, but I was amused anyway.

19 has gone quiet

Nov 16, 2020 -- 5:18PM, lfc1971 wrote:

19 has gone quiet

Maybe he’s getting treatment.

He’s learning to say thankyou President Trump and America

they couldnt care less if you say thank you ,they just want your money

If it works they deserve every penny

so after paying into the nhs for 40 years i dont deserve ant more treatment because i want to wait to see if a vaccine that has been found in months is safe for use?
are you turning away obese people,smokers,drug addicts etc also in your marxist regime?

what happened to freedom of choice in this country?

I can’t believe he was serious, 19. Last thing I want to be doing is make moral rather than clinical decisions about who to treat, how and why.

America puts a vast amount of money into research and there is no guarantee of success
It is America and the American people who have to finance this in health care costs taxes etc
And it is countries throughout the world who benefit

19 this is a different thing , a virus is different from someone overweight or even smoking drinking
The virus spreads from people to people
Try to understand that difference

talking total crap,private companies listed on the stock market,shareholders pay for it hoping to make money

People who smoke and drink are also good for the nhs and the country ( if you’re talking about finances

gazo it is American taxes paid by Americans both from their wages and when they pay for treatment and when they pay for drugs
That is the cost born by American people
We , that’s you and I and milions throughout the world benefit from that

American people subsidise other countries throughout the world
Hopefully they make a lot of money from this and continue to research and invest

so they are not listed on the stock market ?

The Americans certainly spend an outlandish amount on health care but not much of it through their taxes!

19

You will still get treatment on NHS regardless of you having vaccine or not, in much the same way smokers, drug users, tinder users, obese people etc. etc. will still get treatment. You might not get a Christmas card from you GP if there is a pattern of people who chose not to have vaccine in hospital & those who had vaccine being free of Covid.

I doubt much would happen regarding being able to go on holiday etc. either if you don't want a vaccine.


Out of interest.... Are private health insurance companies allowed to ask if new customers have had a vaccine & set premium accordingly as they do for smokers.

so doctors have to forsake their path for flu?

Of course people make money on the stock market
They also lose money

oath

Nov 16, 2020 -- 5:53PM, nineteen points wrote:

so doctors have to forsake their path for flu?

As in not treat people who didn’t have a vaccine? No, of course not.

mr lfc adocating it

Its amazing how fear can make people advocate such outrageous things. Just goes to show how easy it would be to turn the UK into a brutal Police state with large Public support. Scare them enough and they will support all sort of oppression on others.

dot these are the sad people that think if they feed the lion he will eat them last

19

I wouldn't get too upset about what somebody on an anonymous forum on a betting website thinks.
The government have stressed that the vaccine will be voluntary.
History shows UK government don't restrict services to those who don't have vaccine. For example health officials are worried about children not having mmr jab - they still allow children to get "free" education at state schools, still allowed to use public transport & will receive "free" NHS treatment if become ill.


I'm not even totally sure lfc was being serious about not allowing NHS resources to be used on those who don't have a voluntary vaccine.
The government & health authorities are trying to make a distinction between those are worried about taking a new vaccine especially if they are low risk of being ill & those who are spreading "the truth" about Bill Gates , Isreal & Lizzard men injecting 5G into zombies in order to relocate all humans to Mars.

i certainly aint getting upset.i do despair though how a fellow human can think along these lines.sad is a word that comes to mind.

It's quite simple with no catch involved; if you don't want it then don't have it. I've never had a flu jab despite getting reminders for a few years now but I don't really know why I don't have it.

19 I didn’t say that the nhs shouldn’t treat anyone
Of course they have to that shouldn’t have to be explained

But if you refuse a vaccination which puts others in danger
Should you expect to be allowed into a hospital or public transport or shops etc
That’s the question I was asking

We know the nhs cannot refuse treatment, that’s a given

But what about your responsibility ?

that is pretty much saying if you dont have the jab the nhs shouldnt treat you

It wont put others in danger if they have had their vaccination.

19
Is it possible to show some empathy with those who believe refusing a vaccine is a selfish & irresponsible act if you also expect health treatment.

I personally disagree with lfc but it is possible to understand his opinion.

Have you considered that those who believe a vaccine is pretty much the only way out of this mess might...
"Despair that fellow humans can think along those lines"


i doubt you will even be offered a vaccine for months, so why publish your decision now, there will be so much more data by March, unfortunately there will also be plenty of Icke style you tube videos with the normal NWO/Lizzard  racist overtones.

You will get health cover if you don't want a jab & still be allowed on holiday or be allowed to go to a restaurant etc. Etc.

There are millions employed in the nhs , all vaccinated as part of employment
And as long as there is only a very small minority of the general population , including parents and children and teachers etc
that do not have the vaccine then it may be manageable
But the point is that is putting the onus and responsibility onto other people
You are relying on others , not yourself . It’s a form of dishonesty

i think you should all read what i said.

i would prefer to wait and see the feedback, results and any complications or side effects that this vaccines bring,if any,then i will happily take it every day of the week to keep everybody happy if i am satisfied its safe.

would you jump into a car and drive away if the the salesman said the brakes were only 90% liable to work and he accepted no liabilty if any thing went wrong?

Everyone will have some fears about taking the vaccine that’s true

50,000 dead in U.K. and counting ...so if your mechanic told you how to fix the brakes
You might say thanks , it may save my life and others

But don’t drive around before they are fixed please

19

I think you won't really have a choice about waiting, unfortunately going to be a few months to give millions of the higher risk people a vaccine.

It is interesting where you will get your "feedback " from. Will it be from government & doctors or from you tube?

where would you take yours from? what do you class as reliable?

all i would want to know and i suspect very unlikely to find out is if the vaccine has been rushed through(maybe not gone through all the usual checks) and have the companies who make it been given any waiver from any action against them in case something goes wrong later.

Nov 16, 2020 -- 7:59PM, Dotchinite wrote:

It wont put others in danger if they have had their vaccination.

It will, at least to an extent. The vaccine isn’t 100% effective so herd immunity will be part of protecting the vulnerable.

Vaccine isn't trailed for acceptable timeframe.
No liability
No compensation
Thx your governments!
Drugs kill.

And as long as there is only a very small minority of the general population , including parents and children and teachers etc
that do not have the vaccine then it may be manageable


It could be that we only need 60-70% of the population to take the vaccine to achieve herd immunity.

No compensation


Compensation will be available.  Where did you get this idea from?

I think he means if you take the vaccine,also the companies will face no litigation for anything that goes wrong either at the start or years later remember thalidomide

I dont think I owe anybody anything. I certainly dont think I need to get a jab for an illness that wont hurt me just to stop others from being scared. If you want it thats fine its none of my business just dont stick your nose into mine.

That's correct, DOP.  The companies are free from litigation to speed up the process.

The government have set up a compensation scheme.


Apparently, Matt Hancock has refused to rule out mandatory vaccination.

No compensation
No liability.
It's well documented.
It's fact.

Rushing thru a wonder vaccine
That's free from liability must b the dumpest approach known the man.
Most adverse effects are only known after 5 YEARS or more of study.

its only a mask for 20 mins in a supermarket has come a long way

If there is a government backed compensation scheme- what exactly is the problem?
There are bound to be some side effects & these will be monitored as roll out happens by scientists, media and of course the great son of God David Icke who is the leading expert on all things Lizzard, medical, NWO , Israel and telecommunications related

Where has this mandatory vaccine story come from? I haven't heard any UK official saying that will happen.
How would it work? we don't do it for any other vaccines, we allow & even encourage people who engage in risky behaviour to get treatment from NHS.

It will be months away before those who actually want the vaccine have access to it . Why make up monster under the bed scary stories about the nasty government forcing people to have an injection. The police won't bother to stop thousands of people having a rave or throwing statues into the sea. Now we are supposed to believe the police will march millions of people to the local doctor/nurse who are supposed to be happy to go along with this plan.

Stay calm & wait to see what actually happens.

Don’t be so sensible, Mex. Where's your hysteria about stuff that will almost certainly never happen?

While we await published data, on side effects, as I’ve pointed out before, vaccines aren’t an ongoing drug treatment. You pick up adverse events for single shot treatments early and the trials have been huge, for several reasons, including urgency, time pressure, governmental and public support (recruiting 10s of thousands of people isn’t usually easy at all) and the need for large numbers to pick up effect quickly. This isn’t a comparable situation to most drug trials, which are smaller and go on longer. That does mean there are risks of late developing adverse events but these haven’t been seen in any other vaccines, that I know of and trials that have gone on for several months with huge numbers would pick up a signal in the direction of any reasonably common late developing adverse events anyway. Clearly the risk isn’t zero, but it’s definitely small and if we’re missing something significant, it’s not going to be a common event. Of course it needs to be watched carefully but not going ahead with vaccination would be a much greater risk, I think.

good morning chaps,cases rising at an alarming rate since this second lockdown,any thoughts? cant blame the people this time mind

People wanting to blame the government , the tories , for their own lack of social responsibility
The vaccine hopefully will provide a way out of this

good morning all

amazing how ppl that have spent months deriding others for wearing masks and keeping their distance are now wetting themselves at the prospect of a couple of jabs.

19

The statistics that have been published thus far for new cases, hospitalisations and deaths relate to will be for those infected prior to the lockdown.

In Australia some government benefits are reduced if parents don’t vaccinate their children

Yes, you're correct about Australia, LFC.

Some vaccines in Italy and Austria are mandatory.

The ‘ No jab, no pay’ scheme could cost as much as $11, 000 a year per child

Maybe there should be a payment for anyone without a vaccine who who falls ill with covid and receives nhs treatment ?

Mandatory jabs wouldnt be completely inconsistent with getting fines for not social distancing.

Both make the same assumption about us all being loaded guns that need to be restrained

australia is nothing like it's cliched happy go lucky image. it's a very regulated country as far as liberal democracies go

It depends on the society . In a civilised society every rule and custom is not without its benefit
In an uncivilised one?  you’re in big trouble