Irish election

A He is to remain as leader of F/G

B He is a doctor

C He is a gay Indian with other priorities

Combined vote of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil:

1977 - 81.1%
1989 - 73.5%
2007 - 68.9%
2020 - 44.6%

The right on the wain,you love to see it..

To remain an opposition leader with little hope of being PM for a long while is not be his cup of tea after gaining and tasting the importance of a politician in highest office because of Brexit; many doctors have been known to give up a career in medicine for politics, and still doing so esp in British politics. And, I do not get why a gay politician of Indian origin could not be accepted in The EU.

It's clear that the Irish electorate didn't give a hoot about Brexit. Only 3% said that was the most important issue when voting.

impossible123 09 Feb 20 22:31 Joined: 07 Sep 15 | Topic/replies: 14,385 | Blogger: impossible123's blog
To remain an opposition leader with little hope of being PM for a long while is not be his cup of tea after gaining and tasting the importance of a politician in highest office because of Brexit; many doctors have been known to give up a career in medicine for politics, and still doing so esp in British politics. And, I do not get why a gay politician of Indian origin could not be accepted in The EU.

perhaps you get what he said, i am staying on...

As for acceptance in the EU, i have no idea what you are on about.........

Feb 9, 2020 -- 11:18PM, peckerdunne wrote:

impossible123 09 Feb 20 22:31 Joined: 07 Sep 15 | Topic/replies: 14,385 | Blogger: impossible123's blogTo remain an opposition leader with little hope of being PM for a long while is not be his cup of tea after gaining and tasting the importance of a politician in highest office because of Brexit; many doctors have been known to give up a career in medicine for politics, and still doing so esp in British politics. And, I do not get why a gay politician of Indian origin could not be accepted in The EU.

????

Nor was he ever PM............

pp

impossible trying to put words in my mouth

"Others" seem to have more votes than any of the three "main" parties so what a shambles. Nobody is willing to form a coalition so Ireland will have to rejoin the UK to have any Government at all Never mind, the EU will install an interim administration with Juncker coming out of retirement to run it. He is used to running very small countries like Luxembourg.

Feb 10, 2020 -- 7:45AM, sageform wrote:

"Others" seem to have more votes than any of the three "main" parties so what a shambles. Nobody is willing to form a coalition so Ireland will have to rejoin the UK to have any Government at all Never mind, the EU will install an interim administration with Juncker coming out of retirement to run it. He is used to running very small countries like Luxembourg.

?????

As was mentioned up thread, just about the last thing the people of Ireland were interested in when casting their vote, was the EU.

A "shambles" would have been a generous description of the UK Parliament post 2017 election until the 2019 one.

Now we have the ordinary people voting for IRA murderers and terrorists.
It is so disgraceful as to be almost unbelievable , but don’t be fooled that’s what you are dealing with .

that's what happens when you tell 65% of a country who voted remain you didn't no what you were voting for your to thick to understand,at least that's the argument used against remainers in this country ,
even in irish terms the DUP were only mildly interested in supporting brexit could take it or leave it and they were labled fruitcakes and looonies long before brexit came along,

Ist poster blaming Brexiteers for calling remainers stupid and not knowing what they voted for
You really couldn’t make it up

Course you could make it up. Just like you made up your 09:05 post.

its a bit to subtle for you lfc ,but you,ll get there by the end of the day,i,m sure,

Don't put a dampner on this historic weekend lfc,

Can't you see the future?  Boris and the Taoiseach........ Mary Lou McDonald sitting down together sorting out the border,Boris handing over the keys?

any chance Ireland could pay back the 3.6 billion owed from the bail-out....might need to build a wall. Cheers

All paid back in March next year with the interest, cheers.

No connection between Mary Lou McDonnell and the IRA?
Forget about the department of justice and the PSNI’s determination that the IRA’s army council still exists and is active

The ordination of McDonnell to leader of Sinn Fein occurred over a period of time during which she was shown in the company of IRA army council stalwarts McGuinness and Adams . The very public laying on of hands was to reassure the party faithful that the IRA army council fully trusted that McDonnell ( and O’Neil)  would serve its interests

An early sign of McDonnell finding favour with the IRA army council was in 2003 when she spoke alongside former IRA chief of staff and quartermaster Brian Keenan
Keenan was offering an eulogy to the Second World War IRA Nazi sympathiser and collaborator the then IRA chief of staff Sean Russell in Fairview Park where Dublin City council placed a statue in honour of pro Nazi Russell
Russell ran a bombing campaign in England beginning 1939 at the request of Nazi intelligence

Mary Lou dutifully offered homage not only to Nazi agent Russell , as she was expected to do , but also to Keenan , as she choose to do
There are many of Keenan’s actions in support of the IRA’s bloody 1970s armed struggle but one of his actions stands out even today

Keenan worked at the Grundig factory and was later involved in 1973 in the kidnap and subsequent murder of the managing director of Grundig , Thomas Niedermayer

After ransom attempts and other deals failed , the IRA beat Niedermayer to death ( yes that’s right, they didn’t shoot him )
and dumped his body in a shallow grave in an illegal dump in Belfast. His body was not found until 1980

Niedermayer’s wife, Ingeborg, and his two daughters, Gabrielle and Renate, all committed suicide in later years .
The evil visited on this family by Brian Keenan and the IRA seems to have been forgotten.
By Mary Lou , and others .

that's why some people struggle with Brexit,you want to build a wall yet doris your hero wants to build a bridge,BUT THAR YA GO,it will reveal itself in a year or so

doris wants more migrants,brexiteers want less,but thar ya go

Lfc,you have the dup actually in Westminster,your parliament,double standards from ya.

Her name is McDonald. If you can't get that tiny fact right, what are the chances of the rest of what you say, on this thread or any other, being accurate?

pl, the DUP have always quite rightly condemned any terrorist actions both loyalist and republican,
Sinn Fein have never done so. That is something they may never do being directly responsible as they were in committing those acts

mike , I suggest you read the words read them again, slowly.

Indeed lfc,condemn me hole,didn't Arlene after getting shafted by Boris go straight to the chief of staffs of loyalist terrorists?

Yes or no will do.

Feb 10, 2020 -- 2:20PM, themover wrote:

any chance Ireland could pay back the 3.6 billion owed from the bail-out....might need to build a wall. Cheers

?????

PL,Didn't Blair, and Major, and I don't know how many mps consult with IRA and Loyalist terrorists right back to I don't know Whitelaw and Thatcher

that's a necessity I am afraid, but they were not involved in terrorist murders. Arlene Fosters family were victims of the,IRA , they shot her father in front of her and her mother
She has and never would condone violence

It is move on time anyway,past is there but the future is as well, can it be a good future?, I hope so.

Sadly, there will always be a bitter hard core who can't move on, as evident on this thread.

Mary Lou chaired a 'night of celebration' in the Gresham hotel in Dublins O Connell st for convicted on the run from Columbia IRA veteran Jimbo 'Mortar' Monaghan in November 2015
Mary Lou was untroubled by Monaghans long IRA service,nor was she troubled by the precise details of the IRA's army council's deal with FARC, was payment to made in cash from cocaine production or coke ?

Yes she's a beaut

I understand words just fine, lfc. Rarely yours, though.

Mary Low was appointed, as leader of Sinn Fein by the IRA's army council.
she was appointed, not elected, other candidates were told to stand down
by the IRA army council

I know that, and I know where they found Thomas Neidermayer

* Niedermayer

So who's the most likely Prime Minister? Varadkar? I understand Sinn Fein has made many gains.

hopefully the sensible moderate Irish people can come together and form a government, FG/FF coalition

after standing by ire for 4 years ,you,d have to laugh if any agreed trade deal was vetoed by ire because sein fein,greens,other leftie leaning mp,s in Ireland had the votes to veto it,they hated the deal cooked up by doris/leo as do most of ire

they don't hate the deal (not that there is one yet)

doris and his cabinet are on tv 24/7 telling us they,ve got a deal,oven ready in fact,glad your on board with those saying doris is talking a load of shoite,welcome aboard

it was you that said there was a deal , not me

Who'd have anticipated Sinn Fein making gains over the others? The electorate there must be as just as disillusioned as the genuine supporters of the Labour Party in The UK. Whatever, I sincerely hope the bad old days are truly behind the country and people - Brexit or not.

However, I do hope this result will wipe the smirk of Varadkar for a long while.

'lfc1971', do not fall for that bait. A 'Remoron' yet to accept 2016 and 2019 results.

It can happen when there are two old established parties, especially when both are similar
just means the moderate middle ground vote is split.
Something similar happened in Scotland I suppose, unionist party vote split between tory, labour, liberal and SNP gaining all nationalist votes and some others beside
Its a false perspective really

ahha yes impossible, many are still bitter it clouds judgement

hence ist posters increasingly bizarre posts

When the Fun stops, STOP! I think this adage is just as applicable to any 'Remoron' still negatively affected by Brexit as Gambling.

lfc is sick as a parrot which is great

his posts are so bitter and full of shyte

but we dont care

Jimmy Magee  Michael O'Hehir Paki Bonner Micky Collins Dan Breen Dathi O' CONNELL Bobby  Sands Our beloved Martin up above Kevin Barry Seanie Lemass  Tom Barry Joe Mcann Brendan Behan HEFFOS ARMY  mick O connell  SEAMUS HEANEY


WERE HAVING A PARTY  A BIG ONE A LONG JOYOUS ONE

UNITED WE STAND AND LEFT WE LOOK   

thats the colour PA and its awesome

best day of my life possibly

A sad day for the republic.
Thought they were better than this.
Still it has shown peckerdunne up for what he is.

Sad day for you unionists

Get back to your rangers thread.

in 5 years time will doris go to the country, and have indy reff 2 and a vote on a united Ireland on the same day, super Thursday,

With only 25% of the vote in both North and South Ireland SF don't have a mandate for calling for a united Ireland.

Thanks to the likes of ardent brexiteers such as yourself and Arlene,it will happen alright.You are playing a stormer, the other jigsaw pieces stacking up nicely.

A great start to 2020,could be a good year after all..

I suppose you have to clutch at something giggy so why not straws.

Do you think that the Irish will agree on a Government before Dec 31 when the EU deal should be done? Can a country without a Government veto a deal? Plenty of stuff to keep us going.

The way things are going in the seat count, perhaps FF and FG won't be part of the government.

Disgraceful day for the Irish republic , not that I am surprised
I warned you all what they were like .

What's ireland got to do with you lfc, go and wasp other forums like cricket and stuff you're not irish so **** off.

ah, there are millions of Irish living in England and the U.K. abd indeed the republic who like to stick their Irish noses in so it has a lot to do with me
Maybe they should **** off , what do you thInk , cheers

Congratulations to Fianna Fáil on winning the election with 38 seats

Yes that’s the best possible result themover , bye bye Leo

It's called democracy , lfc .

Brexit represented 3% only of issues addressed by the Irish electorate .

Bear in mind that now the south of Ireland is largely 2 countries , one , the affluent one lives and works within 10 miles of Dublin Bay .  Outside of Cork , Limerick , Galway conurbations , everyone else lives "in the country" .

The country people ( Donegal a prime example ) have been by passed recently ,almost  all the effort in economic recovery post 2008 has been concentrated in/ around Dublin . A bit like the London/ rest divide in England .

There is now a big disconnect between the younger generation and the older generations , politically as well as society based . The old guard of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have been shown the door , down from 85% combined of the vote to under 50% . 

The younger people feel entitled to housing access , biggest single issue in the vote , but the economics of the country do not allow such entitlement , much as though everyone shares the wish list . Sinn Fein tapped into that entitlement , younger voters flocked their direction , particularly as Fine Gael and Fianna Fail had their eyes fixed on a different ball .

I do not see any stability down south for a while , can't see any logical outcome in establishing a stable Government going forward .  Hope I am wrong , but if I was Mary Lou I would want another election where Sinn Fein would put up 60 candidates instead of 42 .  Whether that worked out would not be a foregone conclusion .

Leo , by the way , is still Taoiseach until a new Government is formed .

I agree with that Kelly, from the voters perspective, but it won't take Sinn Fein long to make it about a border referendum.

My tuppence worth - in an Irish hotel tonight, was watching their tv / news media earlier after work, but was out and about this evening.

Number one. Feel a bit old - in the bar asked young barmen/women (politely, but in an interested way) how did they vote?  Sinn Fein.  They had no idea whatsoever about the "troubles" in NI - they have never known violence, something their parents talked about. They get really annoyed, (dublin-based) - to hear about their great economy, top 5-6 in every "human development league" in the world - they and their friends cant afford a house in Dublin, city is too expensive. Not uncommon for friends to still be living with parents in their thirties!!. Cost of living is too high. Main thing was - don't want to hear about how "great" Ireland is, very different being a young person living there, older generation have wealth (debt-free) lives they will struggle to achieve - said first generation since independence who will be poorer than previous. Decide to give Sinn Fein a chance  - if nothing changes, SF will be out on their ear - they have no loyalty whatsoever to Sinn Fein - classic case - tell us what we want to hear and we'll vote for you. "United Ireland" isn't even on their radar - it will happen eventually, no rush, whenever "they" want to happen, quite cool about it. I had some empathy with them - but tempered by a feeling that they have a serious sense of entitlement.

Older people. Quite a bit different. Found them kind of embarrassed by whole thing, but still a bit sanguine. Viewed it as a "world thing" - populism - "just like US and UK" - "swallow any old sh1te" .  Bit pragmatic, let SF into government (they still less than 25% of vote, not a "wave" like media wants to present) - they'll mess-up, then "good night, thanks for coming". Though generally feel SF are there to stay, but "best way to get rid of them is to give them power".

Hard to get away from sense of shock though.

As an aside - their electoral system is a blast, very exciting - won eight quid. Convoluted, but very fair.

(dont want it Scotland though, first past the post suits us just fine right now) After independence we'll do PR - but we should do it it like Ireland, their thing is "single transferable vote" PR.  Very very smart system indeed.

Democracy is never disgraceful. Those who don't respect elections are not democrats at heart. One other point that has arisen from the Ireland/UK deal, Northern Ireland may lose their time zone alignment with the UK even if they are still nominally in the UK.

Feb 11, 2020 -- 3:29AM, Wallflower wrote:

As an aside - their electoral system is a blast, very exciting - won eight quid. Convoluted, but very fair.(dont want it Scotland though, first past the post suits us just fine right now) After independence we'll do PR - but we should do it it like Ireland, their thing is "single transferable vote" PR.  Very very smart system indeed.

Definitely a far superior system than the outdated worthless system for Westminster.

PR is a bad system, it makes it very difficult to form a majority government. And it is unfair in that it gives greater power to minorities than the votes achieved. Smaller parties can exert power disproportionate meaning that the majority party must often give up on key issues
issues that the majority voted for
Of course these issues may be good or they may be bad, but at least we can see and vote accordingly in 4 years time
It is very difficult for progress to be made under a pr system, things tend to stagnate

40 of 43 European countries use PR.
The Scottish Parliament is elected under a PR system.

What could possibly be more democratic than to have a system where every vote counts

lfc1971 is a superspreader, not of coronavirus but of bs

PR encourages coalitions , which does not appeal to those with more extreme views . Means there is always compromise in political dealings , some people don't like compromise as it implies they have not always got their way .

Some countries have evolved politically to work coalition well , UK not ready for it yet , too many people still wedded to the "we have won" principle paramount in Westminster thinking , reminiscent of feudal times .

Not up to date with "economic " figures , hearing this morning that UK PLC has gone backwards again this last quarter . Just where is the money for HS2 , improved bus services , NHS boosts , Irish Sea bridges , Flybe subsidy , etc etc coming from ?  National Debt ?

Feb 11, 2020 -- 12:14PM, Kelly wrote:

PR encourages coalitions , which does not appeal to those with more extreme views . Means there is always compromise in political dealings , some people don't like compromise as it implies they have not always got their way .Some countries have evolved politically to work coalition well , UK not ready for it yet , too many people still wedded to the "we have won" principle paramount in Westminster thinking , reminiscent of feudal times .Not up to date with "economic " figures , hearing this morning that UK PLC has gone backwards again this last quarter . Just where is the money for HS2 , improved bus services , NHS boosts , Irish Sea bridges , Flybe subsidy , etc etc coming from ?  National Debt ?

Forty new hospitals?

Kelly that doesn't make sense. When someone votes , first past the post system, there is no guarantee that they will win
They could lose, and have to wait 5 years to try again

So it has nothing to do with wanting things to always go your way.
Selfishness and an inability to accept democracy and always wanting your own way is the mentality  some people, most likely those who favour pr and of course the most glaring and disreputable of examples..remainers

you see there really is no point in having elections. If everyone has a say in what happens after the election now is there?

The usual outcome of a coalition is that nobody is happy with the policy adopted but it also means that nobody has to take all of the blame for the failures.

lfc , the main problem with the first past the post system is that losing voters feel disenfranchised .  In a right -left "democracy" , traditionally split down the middle ideology wise , the 40% who vote for the "winners"control the fates of the 60% who did not vote for the "winners" .

In a coalition , there is a much wider spread of acceptance regarding decisions . But coalition implies compromise , and I am afraid that increasingly UK society has become increasingly intolerant regarding race and relationships with neighbours .  Taking a leaf from Donald's "America First" mantra .

Unfortunately we will have to wait for independent history to verify whether things go forward or backward . Boris and Dominic are experts in propaganda , and they know that delivery of these "long term " projects will take much longer than their political "responsibility" careers .

Kelly the 60% are not disenfranchised . 20% may believe is something , 5% may believe something else , 30!%  something 1% something else ...
And 60 % may well , give or take , believe and accept 95 % or more or less perhaps of the governments policies , which may be no more or less than the 40% agree with

That’s the reality , I know it’s subtle

An example ? Well I have just voted tory and I disagree with many of their policies
Many very important policies in fact .
But I can’t always get what I want , that’s life

lfc clearly you just don't understand how the system works or how the voter can make it work for them locally and at the same time nationally.

I’m pretty sure I do , you will have to give an example

not mentioned on news but surely it cant be a coincidence that 24 hrs after sein fein,s greatest result they suddenly out of the blue arrest 4 people for that journo,s murder, surely the establishment are just reminding people of their connection to the troubles,
just like right wing media now turning their fire on starmer as he looks like becoming labour leader and more electable than Corbyn,baily

Did like that one of the attacks on Starmer from I think The Sun was that he got paid (presumably well) for his work as a lawyer

Tory subterfuge everyday,one day it will end just a matter of how long people are willing tp pretend it'd not happening..

So Varadkar looks increasingly likely hitting the buffers ie not wanted by electorate, and disquiet in his own Party. And, his Party has the least seats - lesser than Sinn Fein.

The chicken has come back to roost eg squeezing Bojo until he squeaked in Brexit. I wonder if his mates in the EU will "engineer" a position for him for old time sake.

Leo "squeezing Boris until he squeaked".  Heart to God

How much of the election result can be attributed to Varadkar squeezing Johnson until he squeaked? Like, would all the new Sinn Fein and Green Party voters change votes because they would have liked Varadkar to be more gentle with the British Premier?

*Like, did all the new

Boris went out of Dublin with a big smile,he got what he wanted.

Fine Gael haven't done too well domestically,people particulary the young want change and who is to say they aren't right.

Everybody wants change …..

I'm over in Ireland working......ringside seat so to speak.

Varadkar and his government given credit for economic recovery and for Brexit (squeezing Johnson was a plus).  But Brexit is way down list of priorities -  1% !!!! view as important issue.  Once no border in Ireland their voters think job done (they are wrong btw).

It seems it mostly about housing issue and the expense for people under 35 getting affordable homes (especially Dublin).

UK not on their radar really, not all about us it seems - not getting a mention!!

childcare 2 kids in Dublin 1600

insurance rising exponentially profitable small firms going out of business including nurseries etc and entertainment

Travel from counties towns in greater Dublin commuter belt a total mare

farmers skint, processor not

rural towns ghostly no investment depopulating 

700 a day on trollies

people going abroad for basic treatments

all sorts of deductions from salary

cost of living insane

ageing population, murder over pensions and age

endless other problems

pups usually empty or closed and on and on

but the recovery has been a huge success 

How much sea traffic is there between Ireland and the rest of the EU that does not pass through GB? I genuinely have no idea so it is not a loaded question. The nearest French ports in Normandy and Brittany are all quite small.

https://www.freightlink.co.uk/knowledge/articles/five-reasons-use-direct-ferry-ireland-mainland-europe

Sageform, this is an advert but it gives a pretty good guide of what's available.

Thanks pp. A long way from Dublin to Zeebrugge! There are opportunities though.