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differentdrum
10 Sep 19 19:00
Joined:
Date Joined: 05 Oct 11
| Topic/replies: 14,124 | Blogger: differentdrum's blog
First there were the comments that if leave won she wouldn't accept the result of a second referendum. I flagged that at the time and it has already come back to haunt her in providing the Tories with ammunition which they used in yesterday's debate.

Now she has amended Liberal policy from pursuing a second referendum to revoke.

The Party was doing well and this change will almost jeopardise that situation. There was no need to take this extreme line. In fact no need to do anything. Just wanting to stop Brexit through a second referendum was enough to set them apart from Labour. Now they have opened the door for Labour should they finally see sense and commit to remain. If they do that it is quite possible that they could then recapture at least some of the 'lost' votes.

A second referendum is democratic, but just to advocate revoke isn't.

A shaky and disappointing start from Swinson. It could well be we actually have three duds leading the major parties.
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Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 10, 2019 7:02 PM BST
if they stick revoke in manifesto for election

and win election

they will have democratic mandate to revoke

dont see problem?
Report InsiderTrader September 10, 2019 7:06 PM BST
At least she is being honest about the policy.

The remainer establishment does not want Brexit.

Revoking A50 now will save the long drawn out process of slowly doing this with one, two or three more referendums over the coming years until they win one.

If they had all been honest from the start the MPs would never have started this by agreeing to A50.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 10, 2019 7:11 PM BST
lol at thoughts of brexiteers winning more brexit referendums
Report InsiderTrader September 10, 2019 7:15 PM BST
It would depend on the question I think.

There is no point though.

It would just delay everything and if leave won it would not be implemented by the establishment.

Much easier if they just said.. 'we never expected you to vote leave in 2016. We are not implementing it because we know more that you.'
Report unitedbiscuits September 10, 2019 7:16 PM BST
Jo Swinson's naivety makes me weep.

FFs, are there not people around her to advise?

The only way to a #peoplesvote is for it to be permanent. Expect Jo Swinson to campaign on that basis. If she cannot, she cannot lead Remain.
Report Whisperingdeath September 10, 2019 7:21 PM BST
A second referendum is democratic, but just to advocate revoke isn't.


Rubbish!

It is honest and democratic! At last!

In fact it is better than seeking a second referendum, which, leaves the argument open for a best out of 3.

I wouldn't expect the forces of Brexit to accept a second referendum or a General Election setback. They believe what is good for the Country is to leave and why should they stop seeking that?
Report politicspunter September 10, 2019 7:24 PM BST
Is the same LibDem party that is sitting around high teens/ 20% in the polls? They seem to be doing ok to me.
Report 1st time poster September 10, 2019 7:24 PM BST
was talking about it today,people cant seperate the people from the policy, the snp are hated by most but ian blackfoot is in a different lg in his common performances compared to the other 3 stooges, imho
Report politicspunter September 10, 2019 7:28 PM BST

Sep 10, 2019 -- 7:24PM, 1st time poster wrote:


was talking about it today,people cant seperate the people from the policy, the snp are hated by most but ian blackfoot is in a different lg in his common performances compared to the other 3 stooges, imho


Not hated by me, they are doing their best to represent the folks in their country and from looking at polling data, making a good job of it.

Report Whisperingdeath September 10, 2019 7:31 PM BST
I really think it will be so difficult to call. I am sure Fromage will team up with Dorris if he is still their leader.

Labour have to form a pact with Libtards, SNP and anyone else who might give them a majority.

How will Northern Labour voters go?

How will Southern Tories go?

Who can really tell?
Report 1st time poster September 10, 2019 7:38 PM BST
not looking like going with a deal erg,brexit party will support,so  majority labour leavers in north will vote Brexit party imo, .I,m 60 in nov my dads still alive and he,d disown me if I voted tory,plenty more like it especially with a Brexit party option
unless some lady rises Lazarus like from ashes I,ll be watching instead of voting
Report politicspunter September 10, 2019 7:42 PM BST

Sep 10, 2019 -- 7:38PM, 1st time poster wrote:


not looking like going with a deal erg,brexit party will support,so  majority labour leavers in north will vote Brexit party imo, .I,m 60 in nov my dads still alive and he,d disown me if I voted tory,plenty more like it especially with a Brexit party optionunless some lady rises Lazarus like from ashes I,ll be watching instead of voting


And this is a common theme. Northern Labour leave voters are not going to rush in droves to vote tory, it simply ain't going to happen.

Report 1st time poster September 10, 2019 7:43 PM BST
boris running around jumping from deal to deal till he lands on one that keeps him in power, is not a sustainable 10 year plan to deliver brexit
Report Pete Watermelon September 10, 2019 7:49 PM BST
Nice bangers, shame about the hampsteads.
Report differentdrum September 10, 2019 8:01 PM BST
Revoke totally ignores the result of the referendum whereas a second referendum allows leavers the chance to confirm the result of original referendum. There seems to be some confusion between an honest opinion and a democratic process.

Personally, I would happily stop Brexit tomorrow but that is a much more extreme/less attractive proposition to voters than the stance they previously had regarding a second referendum.

Yes, the Liberals have been doing pretty well but they haven't really pushed on in the polls since the European Elections and that 20% will be prior to the change of policy. I suspect many people won't absorb it until the actual Election.

It may well be hypothetical because I don't think it is long odds against a deal before 31 October. I fear there are too many on both sides willing to accept just about anything and if they do it leads to a Tory majority.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 10, 2019 8:15 PM BST
some people think a deal is not brexit
Report politicspunter September 10, 2019 8:18 PM BST

Sep 10, 2019 -- 8:01PM, differentdrum wrote:


Revoke totally ignores the result of the referendum whereas a second referendum allows leavers the chance to confirm the result of original referendum. There seems to be some confusion between an honest opinion and a democratic process.Personally, I would happily stop Brexit tomorrow but that is a much more extreme/less attractive proposition to voters than the stance they previously had regarding a second referendum.Yes, the Liberals have been doing pretty well but they haven't really pushed on in the polls since the European Elections and that 20% will be prior to the change of policy. I suspect many people won't absorb it until the actual Election.It may well be hypothetical because I don't think it is long odds against a deal before 31 October. I fear there are too many on both sides willing to accept just about anything and if they do it leads to a Tory majority.


You are correct to say that the LibDem vote is not increasing noticeably nor however is it declining. All the LibDems will be concentrating on is maximising their vote in geographical areas they are strong such as the West country, parts of London, Wales and Scotland and rural areas in general. That is where their canvass and financial efforts will be in overdrive, other hopeless areas will have nothing much more than a paper candidate.

Report 1st time poster September 10, 2019 8:22 PM BST
don't think there,s any clever minds in no 10 tory party,although now ruled out,touting border in irish sea sends dup,erg,and possible labour mp,s who,d vote for mays deal,running a mile,probably the worst possible outcome to get a majority from,the majority is there around mays deal but on labour votes and erg,dup chop bojo,s legs off,
3 way choice for bojo
himself
country
tory party
Report InsiderTrader September 10, 2019 8:34 PM BST
PP, you are correct.

The more extreme the Brexit Party and the LidDems go the more voters they will pick up from the leaver/remainer extremes. Neither will ever get a majority but that is not what they are looking for.

The Tories and Labour know this and are now moving to leave/remain but they are not are extreme as they need middle of the road voters as well if they are ever to get a majority.

Will be interesting to see what happens.

I like the honesty of the new libDem policy.

The last thing we need as a country is more delay. We need a decision one way or other.
Report unitedbiscuits September 10, 2019 8:37 PM BST
And yet IT fears and runs away from a #PeoplesVote .

How does he reconcile these opposing impulses?
Report InsiderTrader September 10, 2019 8:39 PM BST
Whisperingdeath
10 Sep 19 19:31
Joined: 25 Dec 11
| Topic/replies: 24,817 | Blogger: Whisperingdeath's blog
I really think it will be so difficult to call. I am sure Fromage will team up with Dorris if he is still their leader.

Labour have to form a pact with Libtards, SNP and anyone else who might give them a majority.

How will Northern Labour voters go?

How will Southern Tories go?

^

It will be interesting.

Is a vote for the LidDems going to end up as vote for Corbyn?

Will the LibDems be able to contain Corbyn in a coalition from his most radical policies? If they fail like they did in 2010 it will make them unelectable again.

I am not sure Southern Tories who might vote LibDem actually want Corbyn as PM.
Report politicspunter September 10, 2019 8:40 PM BST

Sep 10, 2019 -- 8:34PM, InsiderTrader wrote:


PP, you are correct.The more extreme the Brexit Party and the LidDems go the more voters they will pick up from the leaver/remainer extremes. Neither will ever get a majority but that is not what they are looking for.The Tories and Labour know this and are now moving to leave/remain but they are not are extreme as they need middle of the road voters as well if they are ever to get a majority.Will be interesting to see what happens.I like the honesty of the new libDem policy.The last thing we need as a country is more delay. We need a decision one way or other.


There are plenty of centre right former tory voters (like me) who are going to vote LibDem as they can't vote for Boris and are disgusted by the way they have treated their MPs as they lurch further to the right on a daily basis.

Report InsiderTrader September 10, 2019 8:40 PM BST
unitedbiscuits
10 Sep 19 20:37
Joined: 27 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 12,458 | Blogger: unitedbiscuits's blog
And yet IT fears and runs away from a #PeoplesVote .

How does he reconcile these opposing impulses?


^

I do not fear it.

I just think it is a waste of time.

The people calling for it are remainers.

They want to remain.

The MPs want to remain.

So why not be honest and just revoke A50 rather than having another referendum that will not be implemented if leave wins.
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 10, 2019 8:51 PM BST
Refreshing to have an honest policy based on what they want to do rather than doing a bunch of focus groups and deciding to offer what you think will be popular.

I reckon it might play quite well, particularly if rumours of Labour's blank page brexit policy turn out to be true.
Report Mighty Whites 2008 September 10, 2019 8:55 PM BST
Been wondering why the lib dems havent done this before. Clearly marks them as a party who want to remain. Takes them up a notch from whatever labours position is today.

The hard remainers just want to remain so this may actually work in their favour. I think we are past the point of another second referendum. The hard leavers want a no deal the hard remainers want to remain and those soft leavers/ remainers just want it over.

If labour are not carefully I could see them getting decimated in the next election
Report Pleasegivemeanailedontip September 10, 2019 9:13 PM BST
It’s one of the endgames of remainerthink.

There’s very little downside moving from people’s vote to revoke - everyone knows what peoples vote means.

Lying about her intentions and having to be careful with her arguments feels wrong and makes it more difficult to maraud the moral high ground and attack others. Now she has ‘liberated’ herself (pun intended) she can convince herself that she is the antidote to all the other dishonest politicians.

Expect some seriously sickening sanctimony in about 4 to 6 weeks as the self-brainwashing kicks in
Report n88uk September 10, 2019 9:52 PM BST
I assume the reason this has been done is because Labour are virtually moving to their old position and they want to stand out. The only thing with this position is Lib Dems never going to win a majority, can only enter a coalition and they'd have to back down in a coalition, how will that be viewed after last time?
Report themover September 10, 2019 9:52 PM BST
Like everyone knew what a peoples vote would mean in 2016 ?
Report n88uk September 10, 2019 9:55 PM BST
It's also done so it's unequivocally clear, they can see that Labour are gonna be picked on for saying we will negotiate a deal and then some MPs will campaign for remain anyway, that position is actually fine, but the media are clearly picking on it, doing this Lib Dems don't have that same problem.
Report Pleasegivemeanailedontip September 10, 2019 10:05 PM BST
Very unlike the 2016 people’s vote.

In 2019... people’s vote, no no deal, extension, revoke.. all the same thing
Report differentdrum September 12, 2019 7:58 PM BST
Labour's Brexit policy is considered a total mess. It appeals to nobody. It has already been exposed in trial runs. Day after day it is quite rightly being ridiculed. Even the EU themselves have described it as 'mad'.

The Liberals already stood out by being unequivocally remain and having no intention of negotiating another deal. Basically, the Tom Watson policy.

Unless Labour moved they had no reason to move themselves.

Bit of non news today in that they will not enter a pact with Labour remainers as they acknowledge under the current leadership Labour cannot ever be considered a remain Party. There was no chance that Labour would ever have entered a formal arrangement for the same reasons.
Report Pete Watermelon September 12, 2019 10:25 PM BST
She has got nice tits though.
Report Angoose September 13, 2019 4:43 PM BST
Swinson: Corbyn and Johnson are unfit to lead

Jo Swinson has ruled out backing a Jeremy Corbyn-led government after a general election, saying the Liberal Democrats could not even have an informal support arrangement with Labour, despite recent cooperation to block a no-deal Brexit.

Speaking ahead of her first Lib Dem conference as party leader, Swinson said she favoured “pluralist politics” and cross-party working such as that which saw opposition MPs group together to force a Brexit extension and block an election.
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