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05 Aug 19
07:43
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20 Mar 18
A majority of Scots are now in favour of independence and want a second referendum by 2021, according to a new poll.
Holyrood can reveal that a poll conducted by Lord Ashcroft Polls - days after Boris Johnson, the new prime minister, visited Scotland - puts support for independence at 46 per cent for and 43 per cent against.
Once those who said they didn’t know how they would vote, or said they would not vote, are removed, support for independence rises to 52 per cent for, 48 per cent against.
This is the first lead for independence in a major poll since an Ipsos MORI poll in March 2017 and it is the biggest lead for a ‘yes’ vote since a spate of polls were published in 2016 shortly after the EU referendum.
Almost half (47 per cent) of the Scots surveyed in the poll said that there should be a second independence referendum within the next two years, which fits with the timetable announced by the First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, who has said she wants a referendum by the end of this parliamentary term.
The new poll will be a serious blow for Ruth Davidson, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, who has repeatedly said that there is no real support for a second independence referendum any time soon.
According to the poll, a third of Labour voters, a majority of EU remain voters and 18 per cent of those who voted ‘no’ in 2014, said they would vote ‘yes’ now.
Conversely, ten percent of those who voted ‘yes’ in 2014 said they would now vote ‘no’.
And even though Scottish Labour and the Liberal Democrats are both opponents of a second independence referendum, a return to the polls for Indyref2 is favoured by more than one third of 2017 Labour voters, more than half of EU remain voters and by more than one in five of those who voted ‘no’ to independence in 2014.
However, more than 90 per cent of Conservative supporters have said they oppose a second referendum.
Overall, a majority of Scots said that if a second independence referendum were to be held, they believed that Scotland would become independent and only three in ten of those polled – including two thirds of Conservative supporters and fewer than half of ‘no’ voters in 2014 – thought Scotland would vote to remain part of the UK.
Almost half (46 per cent) of Scots agreed with the first minister that a no-deal Brexit would be disastrous for Scotland and a majority of those polled agreed that Brexit strengthens the case for Scottish independence.
More than 60 per cent of Scots – including 38 per cent of 2017 Conservatives and two thirds of Labour voters – said they think Brexit makes it more likely that Scotland will become independent in the foreseeable future.
More than half of 2014 No voters think this is the case, with 32 per cent of them saying it makes independence much more likely.
According to the poll, more than half said there should be a second EU referendum, with 69 per cent of SNP voters in favour of a second poll, more than half of Labour voters and one in five Conservatives.
If there was a second EU referendum, 67 per cent of those polled said they would vote to remain, which is a rise on the 62 per cent that voted to remain in 2016.
Scottish voters were closely divided as to whether – if it were not possible to do both - it would be more important for Scotland to remain part of the UK or to remain in the EU.
And while 42 per cent said they would prioritise the Union, 45 per cent said they would prioritise the EU.
In terms of the prime minister’s first week in office, half of those Scots polled said they expected him to do badly and a quarter said he had done better than they had anticipated.
One in four Conservative supporters said they had low expectations of Johnson but had been pleasantly surprised.
Compared to other politicians, Johnson ranks relatively low among Scottish voters, although above Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard, UK Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage.
Asked whether Johnson or Corbyn would make the best prime minister, 29 per cent of Scots named Johnson, while 23 per cent said Corbyn.
More worryingly for the Labour leader, fewer than four in ten of 2017 Labour voters said they thought he would make the best prime minister.
The poll was based on a sample size of 1,019, and was conducted online between 30 July and 2 August.
Holyrood can reveal that a poll conducted by Lord Ashcroft Polls - days after Boris Johnson, the new prime minister, visited Scotland - puts support for independence at 46 per cent for and 43 per cent against.
Once those who said they didn’t know how they would vote, or said they would not vote, are removed, support for independence rises to 52 per cent for, 48 per cent against.
This is the first lead for independence in a major poll since an Ipsos MORI poll in March 2017 and it is the biggest lead for a ‘yes’ vote since a spate of polls were published in 2016 shortly after the EU referendum.
Almost half (47 per cent) of the Scots surveyed in the poll said that there should be a second independence referendum within the next two years, which fits with the timetable announced by the First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, who has said she wants a referendum by the end of this parliamentary term.
The new poll will be a serious blow for Ruth Davidson, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, who has repeatedly said that there is no real support for a second independence referendum any time soon.
According to the poll, a third of Labour voters, a majority of EU remain voters and 18 per cent of those who voted ‘no’ in 2014, said they would vote ‘yes’ now.
Conversely, ten percent of those who voted ‘yes’ in 2014 said they would now vote ‘no’.
And even though Scottish Labour and the Liberal Democrats are both opponents of a second independence referendum, a return to the polls for Indyref2 is favoured by more than one third of 2017 Labour voters, more than half of EU remain voters and by more than one in five of those who voted ‘no’ to independence in 2014.
However, more than 90 per cent of Conservative supporters have said they oppose a second referendum.
Overall, a majority of Scots said that if a second independence referendum were to be held, they believed that Scotland would become independent and only three in ten of those polled – including two thirds of Conservative supporters and fewer than half of ‘no’ voters in 2014 – thought Scotland would vote to remain part of the UK.
Almost half (46 per cent) of Scots agreed with the first minister that a no-deal Brexit would be disastrous for Scotland and a majority of those polled agreed that Brexit strengthens the case for Scottish independence.
More than 60 per cent of Scots – including 38 per cent of 2017 Conservatives and two thirds of Labour voters – said they think Brexit makes it more likely that Scotland will become independent in the foreseeable future.
More than half of 2014 No voters think this is the case, with 32 per cent of them saying it makes independence much more likely.
According to the poll, more than half said there should be a second EU referendum, with 69 per cent of SNP voters in favour of a second poll, more than half of Labour voters and one in five Conservatives.
If there was a second EU referendum, 67 per cent of those polled said they would vote to remain, which is a rise on the 62 per cent that voted to remain in 2016.
Scottish voters were closely divided as to whether – if it were not possible to do both - it would be more important for Scotland to remain part of the UK or to remain in the EU.
And while 42 per cent said they would prioritise the Union, 45 per cent said they would prioritise the EU.
In terms of the prime minister’s first week in office, half of those Scots polled said they expected him to do badly and a quarter said he had done better than they had anticipated.
One in four Conservative supporters said they had low expectations of Johnson but had been pleasantly surprised.
Compared to other politicians, Johnson ranks relatively low among Scottish voters, although above Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard, UK Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage.
Asked whether Johnson or Corbyn would make the best prime minister, 29 per cent of Scots named Johnson, while 23 per cent said Corbyn.
More worryingly for the Labour leader, fewer than four in ten of 2017 Labour voters said they thought he would make the best prime minister.
The poll was based on a sample size of 1,019, and was conducted online between 30 July and 2 August.
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lfc, the current agreement was agreed between the EU and Britain , a Britain led by a Conservative and Unionist Prime Minister . FACT , no matter how you want to ignore that. That Britain wants to change the agreement means it is incumbent on Britain to negotiate/ amend the agreement . Blaming the EU is just a cover up for Boris and co failing to have any sensible and workable solution that is acceptable to the majority of UK MP's and to the EU .
The rest of the world knows the score . There is no rush to court Britain , if there was we would have had slogans ( on buses? ) and facts ( where is the oft trumpeted Liam Fox , the architect of loads of proposed trade deals) . Ignore Trump , after the recent shootings he blames 6 other factors , ignoring the real culprit viz inadequate gun laws . He wants to scupper Europe , using Britain is his current play , leaving a clearer deck for USA dominance .
The rest of the world knows the score . There is no rush to court Britain , if there was we would have had slogans ( on buses? ) and facts ( where is the oft trumpeted Liam Fox , the architect of loads of proposed trade deals) . Ignore Trump , after the recent shootings he blames 6 other factors , ignoring the real culprit viz inadequate gun laws . He wants to scupper Europe , using Britain is his current play , leaving a clearer deck for USA dominance .
That’s ok, I prefer America to Europe , or Ireland for that matter
Now the agreement didn’t get through the British Parliament
guess why ? The remainers didn’t vote for it , blame them
guess why ? The remainers didn’t vote for it , blame them
tobermory , you are putting the cart before the horse . If the remainers won a "peoples vote" Scotland would be quite happy to remain in the UK . As would Northern Ireland probably .
No deal Brexit is playing with fire constitutionally , a fact that the Brexiteers try to pooh pooh . The regions of Britain that would suffer most in a no deal situation are Northern Ireland and Scotland in that order . Disaffected citizens invariably react .
No deal Brexit is playing with fire constitutionally , a fact that the Brexiteers try to pooh pooh . The regions of Britain that would suffer most in a no deal situation are Northern Ireland and Scotland in that order . Disaffected citizens invariably react .
They would not accept leaving the EU , even after a second referendum
So that’s a waste of time
So that’s a waste of time
Kelly start with the threats of violence again , thanks
I’m more concerned that the losers learn to respect the referendum result
Don’t start preaching about being disaffected until you can understand that
Don’t start preaching about being disaffected until you can understand that
Now Brexit comes first , with it without the Scots or the Irish I don’t care after that Scotland or N Ireland can do what they want
We are not going to waste our time trying to convince you in n Ireland or anyone else , it’s too much trouble
lfc , the agreement didn't get through Parliament because the British Prime Minister and her advisers/ cabinet hadn't a clue how to achieve it. They couldn't agree among themselves what day it was . Not the EU's fault , 27 of their countries were firmly behind what was agreed . May represented a divided country , and kept backing the wrong horses . If you keep backing losing selections you finish up bankrupt. Applies to ideas as well as money .
Boris has picked a complete Brexit cabinet , and will try to present himself and his cabinet as a united front for the views of the country . Boris does not care if he runs the ship onto the rocks which seems to be his only tactic . May was sensible enough to realise that staying aboard such a ship was madness , she jumped ship , did not want the ultimate legacy of the albatross around her neck .
Boris is not worried about the albatross , too interested in enjoying the trip to see the rocks ahead .
Boris has picked a complete Brexit cabinet , and will try to present himself and his cabinet as a united front for the views of the country . Boris does not care if he runs the ship onto the rocks which seems to be his only tactic . May was sensible enough to realise that staying aboard such a ship was madness , she jumped ship , did not want the ultimate legacy of the albatross around her neck .
Boris is not worried about the albatross , too interested in enjoying the trip to see the rocks ahead .
Kelly I’m tired trying to explain the basics to you
Here it is again , no agreement no matter what which took us out of the EU was going to get through Parliament because the Labour Party and the liberals and the snp wouldn’t vote for it
Now Boris is , hopefully , going to steer the ship around the iceberg that is the remainer parliament , through difficult and treacherous waters
And bring it safely to shore on the other side
Nite nite
Here it is again , no agreement no matter what which took us out of the EU was going to get through Parliament because the Labour Party and the liberals and the snp wouldn’t vote for it
Now Boris is , hopefully , going to steer the ship around the iceberg that is the remainer parliament , through difficult and treacherous waters
And bring it safely to shore on the other side
Nite nite
Well , lfc , if the British Prime Minister was inane enough to negotiate and agree an arrangement which she could not get through Parliament it shows how badly served the UK is by its politicians and political system . We had 3 years of reassurance and empty promises . Compromise to accommodate the views of approximately 50% of the country would have enabled her to be in with a fighting chance . Instead she allowed herself to be acting at the behest of the DUP , the ERG , and the other arch Brexiteers who had their agenda which accommodated only themselves , no one else . They just drew red lines everywhere , where a softer Brexit might have won more general support .
Now Boris and co are trying to bluff and bluster the EU , concentrating on Ireland which they view as a chink in the EU armor . Ireland is minute in the EU finances , throwing Ireland a few extra concessions and support will cost the EU buttons . It will be Northern Ireland that will suffer most from a no deal Brexit , except for the smuggling at which we were among the worlds experts once upon a time . 350 miles of farmland and waterway borders cannot be policed 24/7 . A back door into Britain , and the DUP are adamant that there must be no border in the Irish sea between Northern Ireland and "the mainland" , one of their main red lines . So if you are in Northern Ireland you are free into the UK . And the lorries which cross our border 19 times a day as currently have to be able to do it with no delay as at present , otherwise there will be no trade deal approved by the House of Congress as it might endanger the Good Friday Agreement.
Boris and co live in a very sheltered/ cocooned environment , conditioned by upbringing , education and political systems. That Boris found it hard going dealing with other Europeans on a factual basis when working as a journalist is no surprise . Leopards don't change their spots , now or in the future .
Now Boris and co are trying to bluff and bluster the EU , concentrating on Ireland which they view as a chink in the EU armor . Ireland is minute in the EU finances , throwing Ireland a few extra concessions and support will cost the EU buttons . It will be Northern Ireland that will suffer most from a no deal Brexit , except for the smuggling at which we were among the worlds experts once upon a time . 350 miles of farmland and waterway borders cannot be policed 24/7 . A back door into Britain , and the DUP are adamant that there must be no border in the Irish sea between Northern Ireland and "the mainland" , one of their main red lines . So if you are in Northern Ireland you are free into the UK . And the lorries which cross our border 19 times a day as currently have to be able to do it with no delay as at present , otherwise there will be no trade deal approved by the House of Congress as it might endanger the Good Friday Agreement.
Boris and co live in a very sheltered/ cocooned environment , conditioned by upbringing , education and political systems. That Boris found it hard going dealing with other Europeans on a factual basis when working as a journalist is no surprise . Leopards don't change their spots , now or in the future .
Don't know where this is going to end but..
The Herald also features the prospect of a second independence referendum but leads with comments from Scottish Conservatives leader Ruth Davidson about the state of the Union. Ms Davidson said she had sent the results of a recent opinion poll, which showed most Scots back a Yes vote, to the new Prime Minister Boris Johnson.
The Herald also features the prospect of a second independence referendum but leads with comments from Scottish Conservatives leader Ruth Davidson about the state of the Union. Ms Davidson said she had sent the results of a recent opinion poll, which showed most Scots back a Yes vote, to the new Prime Minister Boris Johnson.
A poll of a little over a thousand people is not most Scots.
Last election one poll giving the Yes campaign a 51–49 lead. In the referendum, on 18 September 2014, Scotland voted against independence by 55.3% to 44.7%, with an overall turnout of 84.6%.[10][11]
Last election one poll giving the Yes campaign a 51–49 lead. In the referendum, on 18 September 2014, Scotland voted against independence by 55.3% to 44.7%, with an overall turnout of 84.6%.[10][11]
Flush,
All opinion polls don't ask everyone who votes. However, most are pretty accurate and are rarely far outwith the margin of error. It's the same with all national polling such as the EU referendum, some polls had leave in front, some remain, some level but very little in it one way or another. It's the same here, there is nothing in it.
All opinion polls don't ask everyone who votes. However, most are pretty accurate and are rarely far outwith the margin of error. It's the same with all national polling such as the EU referendum, some polls had leave in front, some remain, some level but very little in it one way or another. It's the same here, there is nothing in it.
Here it is again , no agreement no matter what which took us out of the EU was going to get through Parliament because the Labour Party and the liberals and the snp wouldn’t vote for it
lfc needs to get his calculator out
lfc needs to get his calculator out
ian murray labour
edinburgh south
libdems revival chance of snp coming thru middle taking seat
edinburgh south
libdems revival chance of snp coming thru middle taking seat
xmoneyx, I cant see it. Murray has a 15K, 32.4% majority and a high incumbency factor.
I recall that he held his seat (think this was 2015 general election) when looking in real trouble, only for the likely SNP victor to have said some stupid things on social media which probably cost him victory.
oh dear
The
@ScottishLabour
party came 6th in
@IanMurrayMP
's seat in May's European elections with 8.1% of the vote. Turnout was a healthy 54.7%. The combined SNP and Green vote was 43.5%.
The
@ScottishLabour
party came 6th in
@IanMurrayMP
's seat in May's European elections with 8.1% of the vote. Turnout was a healthy 54.7%. The combined SNP and Green vote was 43.5%.
Thanks xmoneyx, will have a look at that but I don't give a great deal of credence to the EU elections.
As you say, he has a strong personal vote. I wouldn't be surprised in a general election situation for other parties to do token campaigning there just to tie up the Labour canvassing teams and meanwhile focus their efforts on better Edinburgh seat possibles.
Midlothian and East Lothian strictly don't count as Edinburgh but they would be better SNP targets.
Labour have made the strange announcement that they want an electoral pact with SNP to form a majority in the next parliament. They will then allow the SNP to call a second referendum which, if successful, would remove 40+ seats from Westminster and return Labour to the opposition benches. Talk about short term thinking.
Aug 7, 2019 -- 8:25PM, sageform wrote:
Labour have made the strange announcement that they want an electoral pact with SNP to form a majority in the next parliament. They will then allow the SNP to call a second referendum which, if successful, would remove 40+ seats from Westminster and return Labour to the opposition benches. Talk about short term thinking.
Link please?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49257322
Saeform, this is the link I have posted up thread regarding John McDonnell and indyref2.
McDonnell makes it quite clear that he wishes Labour to run a minority government.
A lot to happen between now and such a possibility becoming even close to reality.
Before or after the Scots leave Westminster and become independent? How exactly will Labour have enough support? If they vote to stay then Labour will benefit of course but how long will the SNP last if they lose another referendum? Like the Brexit party, they were formed on a single issue. If they get their way and win indyref2 they will no longer be in Westminster, if they lose they will be discredited.
was hoping for a more realistic price given the certainty of your opinion.
the times
wings over scotland
putting canidates 2021 scottish election
split independence vote
wings over scotland
putting canidates 2021 scottish election
split independence vote
list seats only
Wings Over Scotland
So if - IF - we formed a party, it might indeed die on its arse. Liking a website doesn't equate to votes. But at least in theory, the numbers are there to take a lot of seats from Unionist parties. (The SNP only having four list seats to start with.)
Wings Over Scotland
So if - IF - we formed a party, it might indeed die on its arse. Liking a website doesn't equate to votes. But at least in theory, the numbers are there to take a lot of seats from Unionist parties. (The SNP only having four list seats to start with.)
Soft leave or hard leave? What will the question say?
Border open means not rejoining EU.
What currency? Euro is mandatory if rejoin EU (and have hard border) as Scotland would satisfy conditions (not optional unless you negotiate and opt-out - good luck).
If using sterling, you have no lender of last resort and are on an effective commodity standard - goodbye borrowing for big projects.
Border open means not rejoining EU.
What currency? Euro is mandatory if rejoin EU (and have hard border) as Scotland would satisfy conditions (not optional unless you negotiate and opt-out - good luck).
If using sterling, you have no lender of last resort and are on an effective commodity standard - goodbye borrowing for big projects.
Hmm, if Euro is mandatory how come the UK is allowed to use the pound?
An optout was negotiated in order to create the SM. I doubt Scotland would get one.
There is no SM to create anymore and they want a single currency.
So you are saying that every country in the EU uses the euro?
When the euro was first agreed, the UK and Denmark “opted out”. But at that stage that only meant they were not joining at the start. There was never intended to be any long-term form of EU membership that did not include euro membership.
The UK did not say “never” to begin with, and all new EU members since the euro began in 1999 have had to commit to joining. Indeed, by 2020, all but five member states of the EU are due to be euro members and Poland is likely to join by then as well, leaving just the UK, Denmark, Sweden and Bulgaria outside.
The UK did not say “never” to begin with, and all new EU members since the euro began in 1999 have had to commit to joining. Indeed, by 2020, all but five member states of the EU are due to be euro members and Poland is likely to join by then as well, leaving just the UK, Denmark, Sweden and Bulgaria outside.
Angoose - There is no requirement to join the euro immediately, and only a commitment to join at some time in the future, if you find it ties in with your economic circumstances at that time - but they cant force you.
You have been reading from the FEAR handbook.
You have been reading from the FEAR handbook.
Que ?
I've done a cut and paste that clearly states since the euro began in 1999 have had to commit to joining.
Where have I stated that you have to join ?
Have you been reading the paranoia handbook ?
I've done a cut and paste that clearly states since the euro began in 1999 have had to commit to joining.
Where have I stated that you have to join ?
Have you been reading the paranoia handbook ?
The SNP owe their succes to the EU , the outfit that pushed Devolution onto Blair's agenda. He sold it to an unwitting UK hoping to ensure his path to the EU Presidency at a later date.
The Bullingdon Boys and Eton Rifles of the Conservative and Unionist Party of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are determined to break up The Union.
How Enoch Powell would weep!
How Enoch Powell would weep!
Aug 12, 2019 -- 2:32PM, treetop wrote:
The SNP owe their succes to the EU , the outfit that pushed Devolution onto Blair's agenda. He sold it to an unwitting UK hoping to ensure his path to the EU Presidency at a later date.
The SNP owe their success to the EU is a new one on me.
It most definitely is.
The EU’s website says: “All EU Member States, except Denmark and the United Kingdom, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. To do this they must meet certain conditions known as ‘convergence criteria’.”
Scotland would need to negotiate an opt-out which would be hard as it would be in an even weaker position than the UK.
The questions rarely addressed in calling for Indyref2 are those of the currency and the lender of last resort. Some, including Salmond, have talked of "keeping the pound" which is wish-washy language ignoring the fundamental point of a lack of a lender of last resort. Scotland would have the BoE as a central bank and no provision to borrow uncollateralised. It would be on a de facto commodity standard likely to be quite deflationary and contrary to the centre-left policies supported by many in Scotland.
The EU’s website says: “All EU Member States, except Denmark and the United Kingdom, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. To do this they must meet certain conditions known as ‘convergence criteria’.”
Scotland would need to negotiate an opt-out which would be hard as it would be in an even weaker position than the UK.
The questions rarely addressed in calling for Indyref2 are those of the currency and the lender of last resort. Some, including Salmond, have talked of "keeping the pound" which is wish-washy language ignoring the fundamental point of a lack of a lender of last resort. Scotland would have the BoE as a central bank and no provision to borrow uncollateralised. It would be on a de facto commodity standard likely to be quite deflationary and contrary to the centre-left policies supported by many in Scotland.
Let them have it. At the same time legislate against Scottish MPs entering the English parliament.
Aug 13, 2019 -- 9:57AM, V4 Vendetta wrote:
It most definitely is.The EU’s website says: “All EU Member States, except Denmark and the United Kingdom, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. To do this they must meet certain conditions known as ‘convergence criteria’.”Scotland would need to negotiate an opt-out which would be hard as it would be in an even weaker position than the UK.The questions rarely addressed in calling for Indyref2 are those of the currency and the lender of last resort. Some, including Salmond, have talked of "keeping the pound" which is wish-washy language ignoring the fundamental point of a lack of a lender of last resort. Scotland would have the BoE as a central bank and no provision to borrow uncollateralised. It would be on a de facto commodity standard likely to be quite deflationary and contrary to the centre-left policies supported by many in Scotland.
Salmond hasn't been SNP leader for years. This is all out of date stuff.
Aug 13, 2019 -- 1:14PM, eric_morris wrote:
Let them have it. At the same time legislate against Scottish MPs entering the English parliament.
No such thing as an "English Parliament".
No such thing as an "English Parliament".
Absolutely! That's the trouble with these Little Englanders and Xenophobes. They don't know their own country, Laws or History! Oh and most are simple and stupid!
Absolutely! That's the trouble with these Little Englanders and Xenophobes. They don't know their own country, Laws or History! Oh and most are simple and stupid!
UK - USA says jump, we say how high =vassalage(according to filthy Remanians).
UK - EU says jump, we say how high = good( according to filthy Remanians).
Little eurolanders
UK - EU says jump, we say how high = good( according to filthy Remanians).
Little eurolanders
Fookin shoyte (didnt do Latin or shove my p e nis in pigs heads)
The Scots will have to take their share of UK debt, don’t forget that please ( whatever currency you manage to agree on )
I would advise any Scot to get their money out of Scotland and into an English bank ( sterling )
the night before any change , or sooner if possible
the night before any change , or sooner if possible
I would hate to see telepathics life savings disappear overnight : (
Life savings , a badgers chough and a littlewoods catalogue with the woman's underwear pages stick together.
Been agin the EU since Maastricht, shortly after they released a green paper for the future direction which broke UK and others up into autonomous areas with City States that would have allegiance to Brussels instead of the nation state capitals. North West rejected it as Liverpool virulently opposed Manchester, SHeffield opposed Leeds,etc., hence the failed north east assembly which was supposed to be the forerunner because they guaranteed Labour support.Devolution was one tactic that Blair had opposed when he campaigned in 1997 for an EU referendum but in power supported as a policy to return power to the regions (remember the farcical north east assembly anyone ). Promoted nationalism in Scotland and Wales but they have had to revert to City mayors as an alternative to the failed Assembly idea.Look beyond the superficial debate people.
I am struggline to see what the Scots whant independence and more importantly how will they be a able to run " their " country?
They haven't got a currency. Does the EU want another net recipient?
They haven't got a currency. Does the EU want another net recipient?
The UK leaving the EU is going to harm Scotland according to the SNP yet Scotland leaving the UK is going to be great.
Doesn't make sense. BTW going to court to try and thwart us leaving with a No Deal whilst they want to leave the UK with a No Deal.
Doesn't make sense. BTW going to court to try and thwart us leaving with a No Deal whilst they want to leave the UK with a No Deal.
If Scotland and NI leave it will be an English and Welsh Parliament.
Natalie mc Garry and Soapy will keep the crooked snp in the headlines.
Going to court is just a media campaign by teh SNP to garner attention.
Refusing to accept all devolved powers saying they won't be ready until 2022 yet sought independence in 2014
The economic arguments for independence are substantially weaker now.
Cannot see Scotland making such a bad decision for independence.
The poll, if taken on line, ignores the older generation as many don't have a computer etc ....and the size of poll is ridiculously small.
Cannot see Scotland making such a bad decision for independence.
The poll, if taken on line, ignores the older generation as many don't have a computer etc ....and the size of poll is ridiculously small.
I like the scottish independence thing but lets do it like the Irish split Scotland into regions that will mean Glasgow and Dundee will be on their own even Edinburgh will be unionist so that will Fck the scots parliament up
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49352971
Corbyn agrees with McDonnell that the UK Parliament would not block a second referendum.
Corbyn agrees with McDonnell that the UK Parliament would not block a second referendum.
There is no agreement on the currency or lender of last resort. What's worse is there is hardly any discussion about it and those are the two most significant issues (EU membership being strongly caught up in the first to an extent that you may not have a choice). Moreover, when Scotland takes around 8% of the Gilts burden too, denominated in Sterling, it will need very careful management to avoid a currency appreciation of the debt.
Somehow I don't think the currency will be the big issue for the Scottish people.
Mineral rights don't pass over until 10 years after independence also decommissioning oil rigs in the future will cost billions if they are in Scottish waters
If the Shetlanders carry out their threat to seek their own independence in an independent Scotland they would take most of the oil with them.
Would the Eu prop up the scotishland economy when they scots no longer get our dosh?
Given our ratio of debt to GDP we'd be forced to accept interference on Fiscal Policy from the EU.
But even our friends in germany and france do not stick to Eu fiscal policy/rules.
But then as they run it, why not!!
But then as they run it, why not!!
The EU would actually dictate our Fiscal Policy until such times as we get into line.
I doubt wee jimmy will be screaming EU austerity when the policies kick in.
I doubt wee jimmy will be screaming EU austerity when the policies kick in.
Whinging Scots
Don't want to be part of UK, but insist the UK remain in Europe. The SNP would remind you of pigeons
Don't want to be part of UK, but insist the UK remain in Europe. The SNP would remind you of pigeons
In the event of a no deal Brexit , the possibility of an independent Scotland is hugely inflated . To re-enter the EU as an independent entity given that a substantial majority want to remain as per referendum .
Bearing in mind that Boris has said that the UK would not be policing the Northern Ireland border , presumably the same would apply to any Scotland / England border , on the grounds of UK wide same procedure as promoted by his allies , the DUP .
Any of the Brexiteers thought this one out ?
Bearing in mind that Boris has said that the UK would not be policing the Northern Ireland border , presumably the same would apply to any Scotland / England border , on the grounds of UK wide same procedure as promoted by his allies , the DUP .
Any of the Brexiteers thought this one out ?
Ruth Davidson standing down as Scottish Conservative leader . Another heads up for the SNP plans for independence ?
This news today and in the forthcoming weeks will see ruth davidson resign and the tories will lose massive in Scotland and Wales and in about 5 to ten years the union will be finished for ever
So much for the spivs and the DUP securing the union the bribery and underhand deals have actually destroyed the union , is this what the ERG fanatics actually want ?
The ERG fanatics just want their own way , no matter what the cost to the country .
They will all be well looked after by their money laundering friends .
But what happens to those who cannot manage to put their hands in the till ?
They will all be well looked after by their money laundering friends .
But what happens to those who cannot manage to put their hands in the till ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49650206
One of the better Scottish Conservatives Bill Grant to stand down at next election. A popular local MP, he had a chance of holding his seat.
One of the better Scottish Conservatives Bill Grant to stand down at next election. A popular local MP, he had a chance of holding his seat.
According to ackie and flush..GOOD RIDDANCE TREASONOUS REMAINER.
Come to think of it, I think that may be Flush's MP.
Gordon,
Thanks for your views, which I think are unkind. The PM has an extremely difficult task taking us out of the EU. It is uncharterd waters filled not with sharks but armchair experts and ill informed commentators.
The Conservatives remain our best bet.
Regards Bill Grant.
Thanks for your views, which I think are unkind. The PM has an extremely difficult task taking us out of the EU. It is uncharterd waters filled not with sharks but armchair experts and ill informed commentators.
The Conservatives remain our best bet.
Regards Bill Grant.
He was defending Mrs May, if I see Bill in the wee windaes I will buy him a pint , he was a friend of my mother in law , God rest her malignant soul.
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