Remainers Getting Destroyed In the Commons Tonight

Balls getting a kicking also ,

Mrs

Great stuff.

Take it to the wire and get a proper deal at the death.

If not plenty of time to work one out after we leave.

Awesome. The people may get a democratic result now.

Going back to the EU to get this sorted out.

Lets see if the EU cave.

Biggest disaster now is May and Corbyn meeting to take no deal off the table both getting the blame which saves their little skins. Leavers will vote for minority parties in their millions if they keep us in the EU by leaving in name only.

No they won't.

Spelman no-no deal amendment is hopefully irrelevant. If EU UK agree anything its a deal of sorts.

If parliament start trying to lay down what no-no deal means then it just gets ridiculous.

Imagine if the UK and EU agree a few things but we cant implement them because it doesnt meet the criteria of no-no deal

no dealers conned by may, whoops!

Only because the prospect of a deal remains on the table. Once the latest fantasy gets turned down, and the UK is hurtling towards no deal is when parliament will act against it, because that's when the numbers from the Tories side will move over to stop it happening.

They will have to come up with a feasible deal to make Brexit happen, something they are yet to do. Atm we're just like Oliver Twist "Please sir, can I have some more?"

Tonight looked bad for a while, but the final two votes made Brexit the least likely outcome to happen at all, at any time since the referendum.

Firstly, May & Govt whipped their party to support Brady's amendment.  Not only is it total pie in the sky, has nothing behind it, and the EU have already (rightly) rejected it, but it totally undermines the existing deal (the only workable - if crap one) and makes it almost certain that it will be defeated again.

Secondly, the Spelman bill passed.  It's only indicative, but it suggests there will be a strong majority in Parliament that rejects No Deal, when it comes down to the wire (much larger than tonight).  This removes any remaining blackmail threat leverage the Govt & whips have to try to get reluctant Tory MPs to vote for the deal.  They can safely vote it down without No Deal happening.

The only possible outcomes are now extension, cancellation, or second referendum (Remain / Deal).

In my view, outright cancellation - either by parliamentary or governmental intervention - is now looking more likely than a second referendum, which is in second place.

Spelman Bill is meaningless.

What to they propose stopping no deal with? What is their alternative?

The EU now has a choice. Make a simple change on the hated Irish backstop and then work hard over the next two years to do a trade a deal. The alternative is we leave with no deal, a border goes up in Ireland destroying the Irish economy and the EU is £39bn short on spending.

If anyone feels any sort of "victory" was achieved last night, they should listen to Stephen Barclay's interview with Nick Robinson this morning.

He took Clueless to a new level. Unable to offer a single explanation of what we might be even trying to achieve.

The delusion continues; amazed that so many voted for the amendment. I guess it's simply a tactic to present the EU as the bogeyman. Unlikely to fool many who don't read the Mail or the Express.

Business reaction has been instructive.

squatting-tiger
30 Jan 19 03:08
Joined: 16 Sep 00
| Topic/replies: 355

355 posts in 19 years your a man of few words some people on here do more than that in 2 days

The difficulty May has is that the EU will point out to her that there is probably a majority in the Commons for a solution to the Irish problem called staying in the Customs Union. Corbyn needs to point this out forcibly to the woman and if she won't play ball then he should make it clear to the public what has long been obvious,that May's agenda from the start has been to avoid splitting the Tory Party. Party before country and before peace in Ireland. The Tories of course have form on the latter going back to the Curragh Mutiny.

Jan 30, 2019 -- 2:17AM, InsiderTrader wrote:

Spelman Bill is meaningless. What to they propose stopping no deal with? What is their alternative?The EU now has a choice. Make a simple change on the hated Irish backstop and then work hard over the next two years to do a trade a deal. The alternative is we leave with no deal, a border goes up in Ireland destroying the Irish economy and the EU is £39bn short on spending.

Because they will come up with something when it's relevant to do so. The issue is most the actions require to stop no deal from parliament, so not initiated by May require stopping Brexit, thus it's too early for MP's to actually do them yet, as many that will be against will still hold out hope May will get a deal. When all else has failed is when you will see what the actual plan of action is.

This reminds me when selling a house and you receive an offer which the buyer thinks is reasonable but which you and the estate agent know is way too low and will never be accepted and the buyer is told this. The house is still unsold a month later so the buyer keeps making the same offer and keeps being told that it is waaaay too low but he expects the buyer (who doesn't really want/need to sell) to cave in. Obv someone comes along with a better offer (and sets out exactly how and when they will pay) and for a few grand the first buyer misses out.
This backstop issue baffles me - it is only going to be used if both sides don't do their job right and no other solution has been put in place (technological for instance) by the time it is needed in a few years, which is basically what the brexiters want! Not only that but if you actually look at it it is basically giving us access to the single market etc without freedom of movement etc (for a short period of time anyway) which again is exactly what the brexiters want and to repeat we only use this if all other avenues have been explored. In other words the last thing the EU wants is for the backstop to be in play at all let alone for a prolonged period of time. What legal guarantees (that the brexiters want) will suffice as we obv won't accept E.U legal precedence, we don't have the laws in place to do it ourselves and no other entity has any sort of power to enforce any legal judgment such as this - or at least won't want to get involved.
If it wasn't the backstop then it would be something else that the cabal of right wingers would be complaining over in the agreement and we would still be where we are which is directly as a result of declaring Article 50 about a year early, when we had no idea what to do, at the insistence off the brexiters, who not one had any sort of plan of how to sort things. Once again May has placed party before country and the 1 (or 2) good things to come out of this will be the extinction of the Conservatives and Labour over the next 10 years or so and a more representative parliament should evolve. That and watching you lot get poorer and poorer as someone will have to pay for (no deal) brexit and seeing as you are the only ones with capital there is a very strong chance it will be you!

And @cyclops. I don't think that many that are that deluded, a few are but I think they are the minority. You say what I think the real tactic is. Many know the EU will reject this, but when they do they will just blame the EU, and hope people swallow that rubbish.

You've got different ambitions. Some are that deluded, some are willing to do anything to keep the party together, and others are angling for no deal and know this does that while allowing them to paint the EU as the bad guy.

Jan 30, 2019 -- 2:17AM, InsiderTrader wrote:

Spelman Bill is meaningless. What to they propose stopping no deal with? What is their alternative?The EU now has a choice. Make a simple change on the hated Irish backstop and then work hard over the next two years to do a trade a deal. The alternative is we leave with no deal, a border goes up in Ireland destroying the Irish economy and the EU is £39bn short on spending.

Why don't the English get off their imperialistic high horse and consider a referendum solely for the Northern Irish population, asking the directly affected people if they hate the backstop and deem it stupid?

Weasel words from edy as he knows damn well neither remainers nor Brexiteers support the backstop but for different reasons.

Does the majority of the Northern Irish Remain and Leave supporters not support it either?

Well we know the DUP and their supporters don't. Of course the remainers don't because if we stayed in the EU,or even just in the customs union,there would be no need for it.

Remainers Getting Destroyed In the Commons Tonight
InsiderTrader

InsiderTrader
29 Jan 19 19:57
Joined: 25 Aug 05
| Topic/replies: 7,531 | Blogger: InsiderTrader's blog
So far so good for the patriots.

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Wow- this is some infantile stuff.

We know the DUP doesn't. Saying their voters generally agree with that policy might turn out to be a stretch I think. Also, yes, the remainers would prefer staying in the EU or customs union, which would render the backstop pointless. However, staying in the EU should be out of question. So the question is about if the Northern Irish, as the directly affected people who might additionally have a better understanding of the issue, think that the backstop is as silly as the English sometimes try to portray it as or not.

Jan 30, 2019 -- 5:19AM, enpassant wrote:

Remainers Getting Destroyed In the Commons TonightInsiderTraderInsiderTrader29 Jan 19 19:57Joined: 25 Aug 05| Topic/replies: 7,531 | Blogger: InsiderTrader's blogSo far so good for the patriots.------------------------------------------------------------------Wow- this is some infantile stuff.

Go away unpatriotic quisling traitor.

Haha smash those keys fella

Spyker this also reminds me of something.....circa 98 I put in an offer for a house of around £200k  with an asking price around £230k, it was rejected, a few months later I made another offer of £190k as prices were still falling, again it was rejected, several months later the agent called me to see if I was still interested at £200k, I informed them that I was now at £180k as prices were still falling, again it was rejected.
This house was subject to a divorce settlement, not sure how it worked out for them but I do know the husband decided to keep it. I bought a different house in 99 and have no regrets.

Well you might think staying in the EU is out of the question edy but a lot of the people you would be asking to vote would disagree with you. The fact is the backstop being a mess is something even you and I can agree on,so clearly a vote on it,even if the question was put in a rather more neutral way than you framed it,would be quite pointless.

You lost

Actually I was a leaver flush,but now I feel I should have known better. With hindsight,though I still think the EU is an undemocratic,dysfunctional and partially corrupt institution,it is clear that since 1975,when I think we could have left relatively easily,successive PMs,none of them lefties like Corbyn,have embedded us too closely into the EU that staying is the better option than anything else on the table. Having said that I accept that the result of the referendum was for some sort of Brexit and that as a 2nd referendum would be difficult,we actually need to make the best of it. That does not include no-deal,nor does it include May's deal, given that it includes the politically sensitive backstop. ( I can see no reason why the EU would prop up the UK which wants to leave the club over The Republic which doesn't so I don't see that changing).

people forgetting that a number of tory mp,s voted against cooper bill because they were promised another chance to vote on amm in 2 weeks time

The eu is collapsing ,if we leave now we will miss the worst of the crisis.
Peace in Europe for 40 years? Balkans,ira, daily Muslim attacks, and eu trying too cause war in ukraine , France riots weekly and unheard of levels of youth unemployment .

and paying a fortune to be a member of this 'nice' family called the Eu  ho ho

macarony:

355 posts in 19 years your a man of few words some people on here do more than that in 2 days

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If it helps, one of my last posts was immediately after the news and pundits were telling us that private exit polls made it an almost foregone conclusion that Remain had won, and odds here collapsed below 1.1.   I had seen some of that private exit polling, and the methodology & sampling looked deeply wrong to me and conclusions drawn potentially disastrously inaccurate.  I stated as much, and that people should be very careful.

On that note, I'm still extremely suspicious about that exit polling, and whether it was designed to fail, and how the media (who certainly must have seen it if I had) chose to present it.  To me, it didn't look even remotely credible.

and now anyone who supports brexit gets branded a nazeeee  it is hilarious stuff

Jan 30, 2019 -- 10:50AM, squatting-tiger wrote:

On that note, I'm still extremely suspicious about that exit polling, and whether it was designed to fail, and how the media (who certainly must have seen it if I had) chose to present it.

I couldn't agree more with the above post