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unitedbiscuits
13 Nov 17 08:49
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Date Joined: 27 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 15,876 | Blogger: unitedbiscuits's blog


You see a lot of Brexiteers clinging together and telling each other no deal is going to be all right. It will, for some.
Germany will prosper, the U.K. is an important export market for them, but only on a par with the Netherlands. In fact, as co members and neighbours, trade with Holland is MORE important to Germany. So, no chance of them betraying their principles on our account. Germany also exports 4 1/2 times as much to China, compared to the U.K. . The Silk Road ends at a railhead in Germany, in the heart of the biggest market in the world. So, Germany is succeeding in developing markets in th world's growth economies where the U.K. is already failing on level terms.
The losers of no deal, as the EU have so helpfully and consistently assured the world, will be wrapped in the Union Jack.
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Report unitedbiscuits November 13, 2017 7:25 PM GMT
Any country can control the appetite for imports by
a) Raising the price of them
b) Making their own people too poor to afford them
Since the Leave vote b) has been the preferred strategy, by reducing their purchasing power,  but when tariffs are added, a) will also suppress imports.
So, we are placing our children in the "slow stream" of progress. They didn't vote to be considered slow and stupid, you did that for them.
Report potlis November 13, 2017 7:38 PM GMT
1, that the Germans £4 Billion trade deficit with the Netherlands is more important to them than their £35 Billion trade surplus with the UK.

2, that high imports signify a successful country.


Either defend them or put your hands up.
Report unitedbiscuits November 13, 2017 8:01 PM GMT
1) Taking your figures at face value, that means more goods are traded by value inter Netherlands/Germany than UK/Germany, which makes it by definition a more valuable trading partnership. There is every chance that Germany enhances and exports some of its imports from Holland, thus helping both countries (a car may have components crossing borders 47 times). In any case, German exports are so strong in the developing world - 4 1/2 times that of the UK in China, for example -that it could probably withstand losing trading advantage in both UK and the Netherlands. But what the crash Brexiteers are proposing is stepping back from twenty-seven countries. And even if we could persuade Germany with our special pleading, what's in it for Holland?

2) Consumer demand drives a successful economy. People feel better driving a Mercedes than a Trabant.
Report unitedbiscuits November 13, 2017 9:09 PM GMT
2)  People feel better driving a Mercedes than a Trabant. Generally described as "progress."
Report potlis November 14, 2017 9:28 AM GMT
1) Poor attempt at deflection.

Facts

German exports to UK £86 Billion, German exports to the Netherlands £79 Billion.
That makes the UK its larger trading partner.

Result of that trade

Germany v Netherlands = £4 Billion advantage to the Netherlands.

Germany v UK          = £35 Billion advantage to the Germans.
That makes trade with the UK far more important to the Germans, and a nonsense of your original claim " the U.K. is an important export market for them, but only on a par with the Netherlands"


You do understand the importance of Trade Balances don't you?

Example

China produces a mountain of sh1t which it then exports to America, Americans spend their Dollars buying said sh1t, result? the transfer of  Billons of US Dollars directly to China, that is unless the Americans can sell equal amounts of sh1t to the Chinese.

2)Consumer demand drives a successful economy
Especially when those consumers belong to another Country, which simply reinforces point 1)
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 10:18 AM GMT
Potless got one thing right - China (and others) produce a mountain of sh1t, and if the EU conceded a free-trade deal with the UK, the EU would be flooded with fake Rolex, fake Gucci and pandas with three inch metal needles behind the eyes, all via "Global Britain". So when the Brexit-cabal say "All we want is a free-trade deal with the EU," what they mean is that they want to destroy the fidelity of the EU, by making the UK a kind of insanitary conduit for sub-standard goods. Now, I'm not saying Potless is aware of this deceit, he's probably just repeating what he reads in his paper, but people like Redwood, IDS and Lamont thought this through years ago, and they know exactly what they're doing, and they are running the show. As long as the EU realise that "Global Britain" is a threat to its existence, there is no chance of Germany preferring a trade-deal with the UK at the expense of its trade-deal with Holland. Which makes the argument about figures academic (but not conceded).
Report potlis November 14, 2017 10:54 AM GMT
Last time I looked China was already the largest exporter of goods , fake or otherwise, to the EU, what a "Global Britain" has to do with that I don't know.

Just give it up and admit that your "High imports signify a successful country" rubbish was a kneejerk response because someone (correctly) called bullsh1t on your

" the U.K. is an important export market for them, but only on a par with the Netherlands"

Its ok to be wrong occasionally, the measure of the man is admitting it.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 11:15 AM GMT
By his own figures, trade between Germany and Holland is greater than Germany/UK. Even if we only had to convince Germany, not Germany and Holland, how is he ever going to persuade them that trade with Britain is more valuable for Germany than their trade with Holland and Poland combined?
Rummage around for those figures, Potless, get back to us and I'll give you another exercise: how does the UK's special pleading outweigh Germany's combined trade with Holland, Austria and Poland. There could be another twenty threads, adding to the theme.

Does it still look plausible?
Report potlis November 14, 2017 12:21 PM GMT
Debunk one lot of bullsh1t and he's quickly onto the next, the strange World of 'those who cant be wrong' where £79 Billion is now larger than £86 Billion, what happened to all those "fake Chinese good" flooding Europe? well its just been pointed out to him that they already are and nothing to do with "Global Britain"

I will leave others to make what they will of you now bringing Austria and Poland into the debate, smacks of desperation to me.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 12:43 PM GMT
At what point, for Germany, is trade with the EU more important than trade with the UK? I would say it's Holland alone, quibble but the figures are within a 10% band. Holland and Poland? No? Holland/Poland/Austria? No? I'm only thinking of countries bordering Germany, but you can add up to 26 countries to one side of the scales. But don't take my word for it, ask the Germans. Or ask the Dutch.

We have free-trade with the EU. We are turning our backs on it. The main task of the EU is not to accept a free trade deal with Britain because "Global Britain" would then become a cloaca through which the rest of the world would circumvent EU regulations and tariffs, destroy the single-market and the EU itself. Goods coming off the Silk Road in Germany meet EU regulations, it meets certain standards that "Global Britain" is gagging to get rid of.
"We just want a fair deal". - looks an innocent and reasonable demand, when you read it in your paper, and many readers unwittingly repeat it without fully realising the implications.
Report potlis November 14, 2017 4:51 PM GMT
All very interesting guessing and a mile away from your original post, but then you have been trying to jog away from that all the way through this thread.

Now its about Germanys trade with the whole EU taking priority over trade with the UK, well of course, but that's not what I contradicted is it, it was this

the U.K. is an important export market for them, but only on a par with the Netherlands.

The idea that, for the Germans, a £4 Billion trade deficit with the Netherlands is on a par with the £35 Billion trade surplus it has with the UK, is obvious nonsense.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 5:15 PM GMT
Semantics, potlis. The central fact you have to accommodate is this: the EU is a more valuable trading partner than the U.K.  for each and every other country in the world. We can't compete with Germany now, heaven knows we are going to fall further behind outside the EU. Don't waste your hope on German manufacturers "beating a path to Merkel's door to demand special terms for the Brits," it won't happen and even if it did it would be politically impossible.
We are actually f**king up trade relations with twenty five other countries and Germany. In the crowded field of Brexiteers dishonesty, "They need us more than we need them," is in the top three lies. Maybe pushing number two.
Hence the warning on the notice of the post at the top "Danger, Cliff Edge." There is no escaping the fact.
Of course, I may be wrong and potlis may be right but Germany itself gives us no reason to hope. They couldn't be clearer, crashing out of the EU will damage Germany, but not as much as it damages the U.K..
Report Burt06 November 14, 2017 5:49 PM GMT
Would someone ask Biscuitbrains nurse to pull his pants back up.

TIA.

the U.K. is an important export market for them, but only on a par with the Netherlands. LaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Burt06 November 14, 2017 5:59 PM GMT
Goods coming off the Silk Road in Germany meet EU regulations, it meets certain standards that "Global Britain" is gagging to get rid of

That's not entirely true. Many goods entering the EU must bear the CE (Conformity European)mark. Most do and ones that don't tend to be easy pickings for trading standards. However, there are endless examples of EU officials going to China to see the production line in order to see the relevant safety and quality standards are been met. This tends to be huge toy manufacturers. As the EU officials are guided through the factory they see the very best parts and methods, they tick all the relevant boxes, go back to their hotel, enjoy the rest of the jolly and then go home. As soon as they have left the whole production line can, and in many cases has been totally swapped to use the cheapest possible parts and ignore any safety concerns. The products though still bear the CE mark and have the relevant bar code which can trace them back to been EU CE approved. Many Chinese companies have been fined for this but no doubt countless more have got away with it.

So these 'EU standards' that you spout about are actually next to worthless yet the whole EU department that exists to police this is, of course, paid for by us.

And, by the way, what I say is common knowledge in retail.
Report Burt06 November 14, 2017 6:03 PM GMT
And not mention you have absolutely no idea that - standards that "Global Britain" is gagging to get rid of is true. In fact, you just made it up to suit your argument. No British politician has ever said what you say. You are lying. Again.


A shocking thread for you this one. See if you let it drop off the bottom with all the others.Laugh
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 6:08 PM GMT
News to me, Burt. TIA for the link.
All the goods off the train are subject to EU tariffs though. That is correct, is it not? Whereas, if the UK had free trade with both the EU and China, the Silk Road goods would end in the U.K. - prior to forwarding to Europe, thus subverting the EU single market.  Therefore, for that reason alone, it won't happen that we get a free trade deal with the EU.
Report Burt06 November 14, 2017 6:10 PM GMT
The train lol - what a plonker.
Report Burt06 November 14, 2017 6:13 PM GMT
How did Canada get a deal then?
Your stupidity is almost beyond belief.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 6:15 PM GMT
The Brexiteers have promised a bonfire of EU regulation. The EU has no faith in the UK maintaining their standards, nor should it. There is every reason to believe that our standards will be more lax - less healthy, fast and loose with safety, crash Brexit, no airbag.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 6:22 PM GMT
I don't know how long the Canada deal took to ratify but seven years springs to mind. Meanwhile, the City relocated to Frankfurt, Paris and Dublin. Nice work, Brexiteers.
Report Burt06 November 14, 2017 6:27 PM GMT
Of course the needless, business strangling and petty stuff will go. Why would it not?

Were your crooked mates to ever sign off their books there would be even more savings for the tax payer. But they don't, do they? They refuse to do so, don't they? Kinnock even fired a whistle blower on this very point, didn't he?

WHY?
Report potlis November 14, 2017 6:30 PM GMT
Semantics, potlis.

Hardly, it was the point of my original reply and what you took exception to.

The central fact you have to accommodate

I have made no claims regarding the UK's trading position post Brexit, why would I need to accommodate your guesses, are they more worthy than others?

All I need do is continue to paste these

the U.K. is an important export market for them, but only on a par with the Netherlands"


"High imports signify a successful country

in the hope you pluck up the courage.
Report Burt06 November 14, 2017 6:31 PM GMT
And you asked for a link so here you go.

Misuse

The European Commission is aware that CE marking, like other certifications marks, is misused. CE marking is sometimes affixed to products that do not fulfill the legal requirements and conditions, or it is affixed to products for which it is not required. In one case it was reported that "Chinese manufacturers were submitting well-engineered electrical products to obtain conformity testing reports, but then removing non-essential components in production to reduce costs".[15] A test of 27 electrical chargers found that all the eight legitimately branded ones with a reputable name met safety standards, but none of those unbranded or with minor names did, despite bearing the CЄ mark;[15] non-compliant devices were actually potentially unreliable and dangerous, presenting electrical and fire hazards.

There are also cases in which the product complies with the applicable requirements, but the form, dimensions, or proportions of the mark itself are not as specified in the legislation.[16]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking

It's such a shame you can never back up anything you say.

Don't worry, we all know why.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 6:34 PM GMT
you are wandering away from the subject of no deal Brexit, Burt.
You don't need to convince me with your special pleading, you need to convert the Germans. In fact, am I right in thinking that a trade deal has to be unanimously agreed among the 27?
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 6:38 PM GMT
Thank you for the link, Burt.
That just shows that we need to apply the standards more strictly, not abandon them.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 6:40 PM GMT
Potless, you need to persuade the Germans, not me.
Good luck with that.
Report Burt06 November 14, 2017 6:43 PM GMT
Potlis has already destroyed your original point. Once again you stand humiliated.

You then made a point about 'EU standards' and I simply educated you that they are next to worthless yet cost taxpayers many millions for the department. A new leaner UK will address this. Once again you stand humiliated.

I made another point vis-a-vis more EU wastage, more fraud, the books never been signed off and a whistler blower been sacked. You failed to address this. Once again you stand humiliated.


The point is that when presented with facts you run away, you divert and retreat to hyperbole. Your position is so weak that it will not withstand debate which is what causes your retreat to the aforementioned. Once again you stand humiliated - an almost constant state of being now for you and your wrong side of history remainiac gang of desperadoes.
Report Burt06 November 14, 2017 6:44 PM GMT
That just shows that we need to apply the standards more strictly, not abandon them.

He thinks we should have people in every factory in China watching what and how they produce.LaughLaughLaugh
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 6:56 PM GMT
Taxi for unitedbiscuits.
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 6:57 PM GMT
It's a while since I have seen a poster put to the sword like this.Happy
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 6:59 PM GMT
Crash Brexit will hurt the Uk more than any other country - I don't have to back up that statement, Burt, Germany is telling you the same. My wish is that the 29% population who voted for iLeave could bear the damage alone.
The only thing that worries me is people assuming I'm somehow on your side. As long as people don't mistake me for one of you, I'm happy. You make me laugh with your EUSSR rubbish, your "tyranny" talk, and you accuse Remainers of hyperbole." The wrong side of history" - nobody wants to join the side of Brexit. Not the Catalans, Not the Irish. Brexit is the most backward facing mess a country could inflict on itself. You even have, in Jacob Rees Mogg, a Minister For The Nineteenth Century.
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 7:03 PM GMT
You don't have a clue what is going to happen. Are you a fortune teller? Using the term crash Brexit is hyperbole. You do so because you voted the other way, because you didn't get your own way, like a baby actually.

You've been spanked - walk away.
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 7:06 PM GMT
How do you know what the Catalans want? Have you been speaking with them? Their democratically elected leader will soon be extradited via a EU arrest warrant and imprisoned for wanting self determination. Do you think the Catalans want that? The EU stands shoulder to shoulder with Madrid, do you think they like that?
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 7:08 PM GMT
JRM is not a minister.

Do you ever get anything right?
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 7:09 PM GMT
And at the risk of seeming pedantic he is sometimes dubbed the  Honourable Member for the 18th century. Not 19th as you say.
Report Burt06 November 14, 2017 7:11 PM GMT
Biscuitbrain, why have you not answered any of my questions?
Report Burt06 November 14, 2017 7:14 PM GMT
I know Biscuitbrain has had some stinkers before but this has to be his worst thread by far.Grin
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 7:15 PM GMT
Do you ever get anything right?
I do Chippie. I refer you to the thread "Get all your money out of the UK."
Of course, I may be wrong about the consequences of the UK crashing out without a deal. It won't hinge on anything we say. Let time tell.
Report Burt06 November 14, 2017 7:18 PM GMT
Still no answers.Grin
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 7:22 PM GMT
Can you explain to me how you know what the Catalans want?
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 7:22 PM GMT
Which questions? Canada? We may get a deal like Canada's in 2024. Is that good? I would say not. Signing off the books? I don't lose any sleep over that. The EU have their heart in the right place. Kinnock junior? So what.
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 7:23 PM GMT
Do you withdraw the term crash Brexit and accept it is nothing more than hyperbole?
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 7:24 PM GMT
I'm not saying I know what the Catalans want, Chippie; what they don't want is to join the Brexit club of one and leave the EU.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 7:25 PM GMT
Crash Brexit, no airbag, Chippie.
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 7:26 PM GMT
Whilst I wouldn't want to butt in on your other conversation how can you possibly say you don't lose sleep over it? So non accountability is for you? That is clearly the only logical inference to take from what you have just said. It was Kinnock senior by the way who got rid of the whistle blower, albeit a long time ago. You seem to be saying that potential mass fraud is ok because these people are on your side of the fence. Can you not see how repellent that position is to the majority?
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 7:30 PM GMT
what they don't want is to join the Brexit club of one and leave the EU.

Perhaps the Spanish authorities should allow an exercise in democracy to take place then allowing  them to vote on that very issue and independence rather than confiscating ballot boxes and throwing people down stairs.

Then we would all truly know.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 7:32 PM GMT
Brexiteers blithely promote the idea of no deal as a viable option. But the people pushing for it are, by and large, the best protected from its consequences. I cite Redwood advising his clients to switch out of the UK. Some can make provision for the turbulence - "uncertainty is great" being a mantra inside some hedge funds - ordinary folk cannot.
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 7:32 PM GMT
Well I am off to watch the footie now. As has been mentioned though - not your finest thread is it.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 7:35 PM GMT
Agreeable to your Catalan suggestion, Chippie. I have no axe to grind there.
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 7:37 PM GMT
Interesting that you answer the Catalan point but not the accountability one.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 7:38 PM GMT
Granted Chippie - I may have used a little poetic licence but, as I say, the only thing that keeps me awake at night is the idea of people thinking I'm on the Brexit side.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 7:43 PM GMT
Accountability - the same people who excoriate the EU bookkeepers happily exonerate the tax-dodgers. Imo "Global Britain" will be a tax-avoidance haven, so there is definitely a double standard. Hypocrites.
Report edy November 14, 2017 8:43 PM GMT
The UK already works as a gateway to tax avoidance that consistently keeps blocking all attempts to change the situation.
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 10:00 PM GMT
unitedbiscuits, please, I know not a single person that 'exonerates' any tax dodger. For you to claim that people who demand accountability from the EU somehow would not want it elsewhere is simply absurd. And I would wager you have zero evidence to support that assertion. And once again, you cannot say anyone is a definitive hypocrite when their hypocrisy would be dependent on your opinion been correct which of course we cannot possibly know at this point. At best you are very lazy in your choice of words, at worst you continue to use hyperbole or a 'little poetic licence' as you put it in order to make your overly biased points. You lack objectivity, clarity and critical thought in my view.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 10:54 PM GMT
Chippie - The double standard is rife, and there is a correlation between tax-avoidance and Brexit. For example, Telegraph readers are saturated with stories of EU profligacy, and it serves the paper's owners very well, because while the focus is on EU accounts or MP's expenses, the spotlight certainly isn't on the "tax haven twins" domiciled in the Channel Islands. One trait of people who get all sanctimonious about wasteful councils or organisations they don't like, is their complete lack of perspective. The Barclay Brothers have an agenda, the same one punted by commentators like Richard Littlejohn and their little foot soldiers on here: focus on public waste, rather than the money they are witholding from the country.
Report unitedbiscuits November 14, 2017 11:03 PM GMT
"they" - the tax-shy billionaires, of course. Dyson, Murdoch, Redwood, Lawson, Lamont, IDS, the whole squalid Brexit hard-core banging the same drum, the same message over and over : public services bad/ private wealth beyond your grasp.
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 14, 2017 11:53 PM GMT
You simply cannot be serious!

there is a correlation between tax-avoidance and Brexit What? This is so nonsensical it beggars belief.

Telegraph readers are saturated with stories of EU profligacy, and it serves the paper's owners very well, because while the focus is on EU accounts or MP's expenses, the spotlight certainly isn't on the "tax haven twins" domiciled in the Channel Islands

Ok, maybe they are, however, EU profligacy is legendary now. And let us not forget they refuse point blank to sign off their books, which, of course, only reinforces this point of view. The EU could end this legend should they ever choose to account for themselves. Their refusal to do so, combined with an avalanche of exposes over the years amounts to a tacit admission of guilt as to why they refuse. Tax havens is a completely separate issue that you choose to conflate. There most certainly is no correlation as you put it. If the WTO made a condition of membership say a minimum corporation tax of 10% for example then most tax dodging we see would end overnight. This is an international issue and has precisely nothing to do with Brexit. For you to assert this conflation is total nonsense.Tax dodging existed long before Brexit and will exist long after it unless the international community acts via the WTO.


One trait of people who get all sanctimonious about wasteful councils or organisations they don't like, is their complete lack of perspective

Believe me, you are the flip side of that coin.

focus on public waste, rather than the money they are witholding from the country.

Believe me, you can focus on this and the tax dodgers should you choose to.
Report unitedbiscuits November 15, 2017 12:17 AM GMT
Yes, tax is clearly an ideological issue to the "libertarians" in charge of Brexit. The politicians are the billionaires' stooges, Gove is Murdoch's boy, Boris has the Barclay Brothers for patrons. The "Brexit mafia" within the Tory party -Redwood, Lamont, Lawson, IDS, Cash et al - are seldom known to be troubled by a social conscience. I would contend that the EU's efforts to curb tax-avoidance are part of the reason why the guiding forces of Brexit wish themselves out of their jurisdiction. Pavlovian slaverings about EU "tyrants" and "not signing off the books" show just how easily they can manipulate a large section of British society. The irony is that many of the duped are on PAYE.
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 15, 2017 12:48 AM GMT
I have to say it's very difficult to maintain a dialogue with you. You constantly divert your point, asserting wild opinions as fact and even delving into conspiracy theory. When I pick you up on points, even highlighting them for you, you simply ignore them and drone on about something else. I will try for one last time.

to the "libertarians" in charge of Brexit.

'Libertarians' are quite clearly not in charge of Brexit, the Government is. To even try and label this present administration as Libertarian would be ludicrous.

The politicians are the billionaires' stooges, Gove is Murdoch's boy

Do you have a shred of evidence to support this? The fact they may have met by the way would not qualify. This is nothing more than a conspiracy theory on steroids.


I would contend that the EU's efforts to curb tax-avoidance are part of the reason why the guiding forces of Brexit wish themselves out of their jurisdiction


Seriously, offer this forum any shred of evidence you have to support that. Anything at all. We await.

Pavlovian slaverings about EU "tyrants" and "not signing off the books" show just how easily they can manipulate a large section of British society.

Yet I commented to you a while ago how repellent the majority feel about such an obvious probable fraud and you simply ignored it. Ignorance is a choice, and if you choose, it is your choice to make, the majority chose another path.

And how about this for a superb bit of hyperbole -  The "Brexit mafia"   Oh dear.
Report unitedbiscuits November 15, 2017 6:35 AM GMT
Apologies for the delayed response, Chippie In Whitehall. I hope you were not waiting up for my reply, I certainly wasn't expecting yours. In fact, I thought my previous post presented no issues but I will answer all your points when I get a few minutes this morning.
Report unitedbiscuits November 15, 2017 9:58 AM GMT
The "Brexit mafia"  Oh dear.
We know who we're talking about - the dark cabal mostly on the backbenches of the Tory side of the House: Redwood, IDS, Lawson, Lamont, Rees-Mogg,
Howard; they have an agenda and they have a shared ideology, which is basically "help yourself." But you're right, Chippie, they are law-makers not law-breakers. I have a description more apt - how did the corrupt element in the Metropolitan Police describe themselves? "A firm within a firm." I think that sums them up to a tee.


'Libertarians' are quite clearly not in charge of Brexit, the Government is. To even try and label this present administration as Libertarian would be ludicrous.
Well, the problem for the PM is that no-one believes in her or knows what she believes herself.The perception - particularly in Europe - is that the May Government is in thrall to the cabal above, and the interests they serve. I didn't coin the phrase "Zombie Government," I wasn't the first to describe the PM as a "dead woman walking," credit George Osborne for that.


The politicians are the billionaires' stooges, Gove is Murdoch's boy

The more unkind observer calls Gove Murdoch's pathic. He was there for the wedding, I don't know if he accompanied the happy couple on their honeymoon.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/18/tories-refuse-to-deny-rupert-murdoch-role-in-michael-goves-cabin


I would contend that the EU's efforts to curb tax-avoidance are part of the reason why the guiding forces of Brexit wish themselves out of their jurisdiction

The ideologists guiding Brexit - Minford, Adam Smith Institute etc - see tax as bad, public spending as wasteful (except for the protection of private wealth). They want a light-tax, wide open for business ecomomy, tough on borders to placate the oiks, but applying a light-touch to the free movement of money. It would be a major stretch to imagine their model of "Global Britain" doubling down on tax-avoidance, with the best will in the world, you don't let the wolves guard the flock.

Pavlovian slaverings about EU "tyrants" and "not signing off the books" show just how easily they can manipulate a large section of British society.
Without singling out any poster, cos there are too many, whenever I see mention of the "EUSSR", "EU tyrants" or "evil empire", I just see an obedient footsoldier of the media forces who have for decades conditioned them to one uncontested message "the EU is bad." They get angry about Brussels because they're told to be angry; and most of them are like me, never been there, no intention of going. They don't, generally, get exercised by tax-avoidance because it doesn't command the same ire in the press. Go to Fleet St with a story about a tax-cheat and they're not really engaged, but if it's a benefit-cheat they're all over it like a Primark suit. The trade-off for honing in on public accountability is less focus on private practise, and that suits the interests of Murdoch, the Barclay Brothers, and the offshore hedge-fund behind Cambridge Analytica. In public life, they sponsor figures whose principles serve to enrich them.


So, that's my point of view. I never intend to ignore anyone but I do have a busy life, Chippie.
Report unitedbiscuits November 15, 2017 10:12 AM GMT
Sorry, the link above is broken. This should work:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/18/tories-refuse-to-deny-rupert-murdoch-role-in-michael-goves-cabinet-return
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 15, 2017 11:46 AM GMT
So many words - so little said.
Report Dr Crippen November 15, 2017 12:34 PM GMT
The number of anti-Brexit threads started by UB since the referendum stands at:

123.

Although I think the edge has gone off his obsession lately.
Nevertheless, this must still be the longest meltdown, or tantrum in the history of the forum.

Yet correcting his many errors is the biggest waste of time on the forum.
He simply comes back with the same argument he's already had a drubbing over, at a later date.
In the hope that he's bored the opposition away.
Report Burt06 November 15, 2017 12:38 PM GMT
The guy is a loon. He wants to go after tax avoiders as we all do but "loses no sleep" over the EUSSR never signing off their books. WALOFB
Report bigpoppapump November 15, 2017 12:39 PM GMT
hey crippen - yeah, it's good to do forum history sometimes, eh? 

what was it you said that time about your ability to discern the genuinely mentally ill from malingerers? - it was quite offensive and very ignorant and then you apologised.

happy days.  Happy
Report Dr Crippen November 15, 2017 12:54 PM GMT
I don't recall saying anything of the kind bigbobalula.

You've made that up.

What does that make you?
Report unitedbiscuits November 15, 2017 1:32 PM GMT
Do I pursue these tedious fools? or do they follow me?
Report Dr Crippen November 15, 2017 1:58 PM GMT
123 threads on Brexit - there's only one fool on show here.
Report unitedbiscuits November 15, 2017 2:12 PM GMT
Says the train-spotter cataloging my posts. Is your life that threadbare, Crippen?
Report bigpoppapump November 15, 2017 2:22 PM GMT
because you cannot remember something I'm guilty of inventing something Laugh

FWIW because of your advancing years I'm happy to believe that you've forgotten your embarrassment.  Sorry for bringing it up.

Happy
Report Dr Crippen November 15, 2017 2:55 PM GMT
There was nothing to bring up bigbopalulu.

You've thrown the mud but proven nothing, in the hope that some of the mud will stick.

That's is pretty low tactics and sums up you and your kind really.

It takes all sorts I suppose.
Report dave1357 November 15, 2017 10:19 PM GMT
nothing to see hear, move along, everything on target

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-15
/u-k-orders-urgent-brexit-traffic-plans-as-border-tailbacks-loom
Report bigpoppapump November 16, 2017 8:44 AM GMT
crippen having embarrassing posts removed again

Laugh
Report Burt06 November 16, 2017 6:01 PM GMT
You've got to feel sorry for poor old Biscuitbrain. He's like a bad shampoo, he applies his bullshiit, gets well and truly rinsed but nevertheless just repeats.

Plonker.Laugh
Report Dr Crippen November 16, 2017 6:39 PM GMT
What posts of mine have been removed bigbobalula?

You don't seem to have a clue about missing posts, and you've been on here for nearly 15 years.

You're obviously a very slow learner.
Report unitedbiscuits November 16, 2017 6:49 PM GMT
Granted, Burt, not my best thread but most of the op stands up.

You see a lot of Brexiteers clinging together and telling each other no deal is going to be all right. Incontestable. A pathetic sight.

Germany will prosper, the U.K. is an important export market for them, but only on a par with the Netherlands. In fact, as co members and neighbours, trade with Holland is MORE important to Germany.   Probably an exaggerated claim - I'll revise it to one we can all agree upon,
"trade with the EU is more important to Germany."

So, no chance of them betraying their principles on our account.  Chisel that in stone.

Germany also exports 4 1/2 times as much to China, compared to the U.K.  Not contested. Brexiteers counter with fingers in their ears

Germany is succeeding in developing markets in the world's growth economies where the U.K. is already failing on level terms. Beating us hollow. Everywhere. Again a matter of denial for the isolationist "Global Britons."

The losers of no deal, as the EU have so helpfully and consistently assured the world, will be wrapped in the Union Jack. But dont take my word for it:
www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/no-deal-brexit-would-harm-britain-more-than-the-eu-warns-exwto-chief-a3664426.html
Report Dr Crippen November 16, 2017 7:18 PM GMT
More tripe from UB.

What's that game on the fairgrounds, where you hammer a head into a board with a single blow from a mallet, and straight away another one pops up?

I remember it's called - WHACK-A-MOLE!

That's what we're playing here - Whack old UB.
Report unitedbiscuits November 16, 2017 7:27 PM GMT
The evolution of political discourse in Brexitland.

No style, no substance.
Report unitedbiscuits November 16, 2017 7:32 PM GMT
Makes you hanker for  the days of Eternaloptimist. Look what we're left with.
Report Chippie in Whitehall November 16, 2017 8:22 PM GMT
not my best thread but most of the op stands up.

Afraid not. It has been quite easily torn apart and quite rightly ridiculed. You are only left with a highly biased opinion and hyperbole.

From your link -

But Mr Abbott said the UK could stand to lose out from leaving with no deal and reverting to WTO rules to govern international trade after Brexit.

Yes, and on the other side, if you're talking cost, your exports might actually drop quite substantially

I think that the tariff argument is in the favour of the EU

Could, might and think are hardly definitive, are they? I could show you endless links where people take the polar opposite view to what this man has almost said. I could point you to what Christine Lagarde, David Cameron, George Osbourne, Barrack Obama and many more who all predicted immediate financial armageddon and were all wrong.

The point is you have failed to get past your fury at losing the vote. As a consequence of this you point blank refuse to consider anything in an objective or logical way. Instead you yearn for any news you can spin as bad and you cling to any individual who just might support that view.

We are leaving. There will no doubt be ups and downs. We will adapt. Life will go on. I suggest you get in with yours. All this wallowing cannot be good for you.
Report unitedbiscuits November 16, 2017 9:10 PM GMT
The sums make the outcome more predictable than most on a gambling site. The UK is set to jeopardise 44% of its trade with crash Brexit, the EU 12% of theirs. Like a motorbike colliding with a Range Rover, we cannot be definitive about the outcome.
Report Dr Crippen November 16, 2017 9:16 PM GMT
Our trade with the EU wouldn't be in jeopardy if we left without a deal UB.
And neither would their trade with us.
We'd simply play tit-for-tat with tariffs until the charges found their suitable levels.

You are a doom monger UB.

Am I correct in thinking that at this late stage you're still having doubt about us leaving?
Report trilby22 November 16, 2017 9:19 PM GMT


http://www.nme.com/news/music/noel-gallagher-brexit-****g-get-over-it-2159750
.
Report trilby22 November 16, 2017 9:20 PM GMT
first * is an f Wink
Report trilby22 November 16, 2017 9:22 PM GMT
“Then the people trying to get the vote overturned, they used to call that fascism. But they don’t call it fascism any more because they’re ****g ‘right on’.”
Report trilby22 November 17, 2017 9:33 AM GMT
No comment about Noel's comment, UB?  How about you Anx?  You're a Manc, nicht wahr?
Report trilby22 November 18, 2017 6:26 AM GMT
Come, come UB.  Can you not access the link?  Allow me to copy the text for you ...

Nigel Farage calls Noel Gallagher ‘a lad’ for telling Brexit remainers to “****g get over it”


Ex-Oasis man says there's been too much "noise" in the aftermath


Noel Gallagher has discussed Brexit in a new interview, saying: “It was a legal vote. ****g get it done and let’s move on”. Former UKIP leader Nigel Farage then responded by calling him “a lad”.

The Oasis guitarist made the comments in a Facebook Live interview with Noisey earlier today (November 15).


Gallagher said that while he didn’t vote in the EU referendum, and agreed more with the Remain camp, he now feels that there’s been too much “noise” in the aftermath, saying that people should “****g get over it”.

“In England, the Brexit thing, it’s like, I can’t believe there’s so much noise about it,” he told Noisey. “You know what I mean? It was put to the people as a vote, the people voted. That’s democracy. ****g get over it. I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the ****g world,” Gallagher added.


“Then the people trying to get the vote overturned, they used to call that fascism. But they don’t call it fascism any more because they’re ****g ‘right on’.”

“Personally, I don’t think we should have left the [European] Union because I feel right at the time of it happening, we turned our back on the French, who were going through some dark terror ****.”



“But it’s happened now,” Noel continued. “It was a legal vote. ****g get it done and let’s move on.”

Watch in the video below, around the 27:50 mark.

Read more at http://www.nme.com/news/music/noel-gallagher-brexit-****g-get-over-it-2159750#JihOGQQY5l4s1fFO.99

Nigel Farage then shared a link to Gallagher’s comments, writing “I think the correct term here is ‘lad’.”
Read more at http://www.nme.com/news/music/noel-gallagher-brexit-****g-get-over-it-2159750#JihOGQQY5l4s1fFO.99



app-facebook


In the build-up to the EU referendum, Noel said that he didn’t think the public should have been given the chance to vote because “99 percent of the people are thick as pig ****”.



He later took to Instagram after the Leave vote to describe it as a “black day”. See that post below.

Read more at http://www.nme.com/news/music/noel-gallagher-brexit-****g-get-over-it-2159750#JihOGQQY5l4s1fFO.99

There's a story in the Telegraph as well ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/noel-gallagher-tells-remainers-f-ing-get-brexit/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
.
Would you like me to copy that out for you too?






Nigel Farage
on Thursday.
I think the correct term here is 'lad'.
Report trilby22 November 18, 2017 6:29 AM GMT
“Then the people trying to get the vote overturned, they used to call that fascism. But they don’t call it fascism any more because they’re ****g ‘right on’.”
Report trilby22 November 18, 2017 6:30 AM GMT
Are you f***ing "right on" UB?
Report edy November 18, 2017 9:05 AM GMT
Mr. Gallagher needs to get out his Encyclopaedia Britannica and read up on fascism.
Report trilby22 November 18, 2017 9:12 AM GMT
Guten Morgen Herr Y.  How are you this fine day?
Report edy November 18, 2017 9:49 AM GMT
Blimey, thank you for the question, Good Sir. I am having a jolly good morning. How are you, my friend?
Report unitedbiscuits November 18, 2017 10:20 AM GMT
Noel Gallagher's mind seems quite delicately balanced on the subject but I'm not quite sure he strikes the right notes here. Do I sense some confusion behind his eyes?
Report trilby22 November 18, 2017 7:32 PM GMT
Mir geht es gut, edy. Danke!

Are you "right on" then, UB?
Report trilby22 November 20, 2017 8:12 AM GMT
I guess you're just hoping this fred disappears into the mists of time, Biscuits, aye? ;)
Report unitedbiscuits November 20, 2017 10:01 AM GMT
Keep the message front and centre on the forum, trilby. Good lad.
Report anxious November 20, 2017 11:24 AM GMT
Dont look back in anger i head you say
Report trilby22 November 20, 2017 1:38 PM GMT
Head?  Have you been conversing with Kevin Spacey again, Anx? ;)
Report Burt06 November 20, 2017 3:25 PM GMT
Biscuitbrain is shown up for the fool he is on this thread. His pitiful arguments torn apart with ease.

And as Merkel falls in Germany we will conclude this business with the EUSSR to our satisfaction.
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