Politics
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
I like his style in both delivery and content, A politician I always like listening to.
Show More
Lefties judge people by their words not their actions - that's why they love this fella
Righties judge people by their actions not their words - that's why they know he's a guess up merchant
Righties judge people by their actions not their words - that's why they know he's a guess up merchant
The right judge their heroes by how much of a thug they are
By that judgement anxious you'd be the darling of the right.
Me Crippen im no thug I don't know where you get that from
Surprised this lot on here havn't said ken clarke is let wing after last nights debate as well,gone up in my estimations!!
Most importantly he comes across as a person you can trust. He can talk tough when he feels something needs said. He has a personality that makes him very likeable. His tone of communicating his thoughts is brilliant. He speaks with authority but not hostility. He is intelligent and if that's not enough he has a charismatic appeal.
I don't know much about his specific policies but I would vote for him because I I trust him and if he gets some things wrong I would still vote for him.
There is no one in British politics like him who could deliver a socialist brand of politics and have his appeal.
I don't know much about his specific policies but I would vote for him because I I trust him and if he gets some things wrong I would still vote for him.
There is no one in British politics like him who could deliver a socialist brand of politics and have his appeal.
Clarke is certainly a survivor.
Yet amazingly he still believes that the UK should be in the single currency.
Anyone who continues to argue for something that has clearly failed, and won't accept that they're wrong is not to be trusted.
Yet amazingly he still believes that the UK should be in the single currency.
Anyone who continues to argue for something that has clearly failed, and won't accept that they're wrong is not to be trusted.
Yanis Varoufakis is frankly one of my heroes. Saw him being interviewed by Paul Mason; packed house all ages; all types. Facinating educational informative and fun info. The world need more people like Yanis. If you one to see an example of a leftie taking action. Yanis is your man.
He is indeed well loved in this country. And Ken Clarke went up in my estimation. Do wake up to reality Brexit. Nothing is simple straight forward and easy. If you think it is you are just plain wrong wrong wrong. Naïve actually. You have been conned quit conning yourselves.
He is indeed well loved in this country. And Ken Clarke went up in my estimation. Do wake up to reality Brexit. Nothing is simple straight forward and easy. If you think it is you are just plain wrong wrong wrong. Naïve actually. You have been conned quit conning yourselves.
I would like to make something clear. I have never been a member of any political party and my vote is always open to persuasion but if this man led my country I would follow him to the gates of hell. I would just put my total trust in him if he said something was right and I had no knowlefge if it was r not. His word would be good enough for me.
Did the fact that Greece has the EU's highest per hectare hand outs for farm land owners get a mention?
And that it is the EU country which is most at risk of not being able to feed its city dwellers in three years time.
Or the remarkable correlation between the budget cuts for the Greek Ministries of Tourism and Antiquities, and the increase in tourism and people taking an interest in the country's history.
I doubt it some how.
That's the problem with Varoufakis - a Greek who doesn't even know the important features of his statist obsessed homeland. Probably thinks it's right for that Greek health commissioner fella to be regulating e-cigs in the UK ( this is true! ).
Well on 23rd June, we told people who think ever bigger government numpties on £150k a year who are looking for ways to run our lives to feck off over the hills. Bravo to the people of the UK.
And that it is the EU country which is most at risk of not being able to feed its city dwellers in three years time.
Or the remarkable correlation between the budget cuts for the Greek Ministries of Tourism and Antiquities, and the increase in tourism and people taking an interest in the country's history.
I doubt it some how.
That's the problem with Varoufakis - a Greek who doesn't even know the important features of his statist obsessed homeland. Probably thinks it's right for that Greek health commissioner fella to be regulating e-cigs in the UK ( this is true! ).
Well on 23rd June, we told people who think ever bigger government numpties on £150k a year who are looking for ways to run our lives to feck off over the hills. Bravo to the people of the UK.
The reality is there is no difference except it will be British Spivs ripping the people off more than European Spivs
It's so strange to see grown men swooning over this guy - it's like Brokeback Mountain meets Shirley Valentine. Sure he seems a nice enough fella but are you listening to what he actually says? 'We're a far better and stronger country' for taking in over a million migrants is simply false isn't it? Surely Greece is in a far worse state today than after the fall of the iron curtain so how is the country 'far stronger and better'. It's possible they would be in an even worse situation without these people but I doubt he could back up his claim.
His mask slipped a few times when talking about Brexit and the people who voted for it - and he's one of these crushingly naive people who believe you can reform it from within - if it wont reform to stop one of its largest contributors from leaving why the hell would it if we'd voted to stay?
Having said that he seems quite likeable, but trust him implicitly? Paddletoe would follow him to 'the gates of hell' - I suppose that could come true.
His mask slipped a few times when talking about Brexit and the people who voted for it - and he's one of these crushingly naive people who believe you can reform it from within - if it wont reform to stop one of its largest contributors from leaving why the hell would it if we'd voted to stay?
Having said that he seems quite likeable, but trust him implicitly? Paddletoe would follow him to 'the gates of hell' - I suppose that could come true.
He`s dishonest, that's the Greek not paddletoe. Paddletoe`s just naive, or is he? I don't know.
didn't see the programme but did anyone ask him how Greece was a far stronger and better country for taking in a million migrants?
how has this worked in theory and in practice, what are the principles behind how it might work in theory, and what is the evidence in practice as to how it has worked. where are his figures that have made this clear.
did he provide any facts, was he asked to do so? I love and honour facts.
how has this worked in theory and in practice, what are the principles behind how it might work in theory, and what is the evidence in practice as to how it has worked. where are his figures that have made this clear.
did he provide any facts, was he asked to do so? I love and honour facts.
if he has no evidence for what he said then the question arise as to why he said it. did he say because he thought it was the right thing to say, despite being dishonest if he has no evidence for it?
did he say it because he thought it might make him appear to be a good person?
if so, and he must have had some reason for saying it, even if there was no evidence, but if so then he is not a good politician or a good person but a dishonest and dangerous one.
did he say it because he thought it might make him appear to be a good person?
if so, and he must have had some reason for saying it, even if there was no evidence, but if so then he is not a good politician or a good person but a dishonest and dangerous one.
This is typical of "You lot on here". Its just a plain fact that immigrants create growth and wealth for all. Cosmopolitan cities are the most vibrant creative and wealthy cities. Like London. This is the truth these are facts. The fact that you do not like it does not make it false. Also we desperately need immigrants to do the dirty low paid jobs we simply won't do. Above all many of us will need immigrants to wipe our assses for us when we are aged. If we are a right wing inward infighting country these service's will be even worse than they are now and wages for care workers even lower and we will need immigrants even more to do the dirty work for a pittance. We won't do it for sure.
OOOOOOOOOOOOhhh you don't want that. Now you want strong unions. Now you want a properly funded health service. You need a socialist government for that. But you don't want that. I think I'll stop calling you hard Brexit. You are the have your cake and eat it mob. Grow up will you.
OOOOOOOOOOOOhhh you don't want that. Now you want strong unions. Now you want a properly funded health service. You need a socialist government for that. But you don't want that. I think I'll stop calling you hard Brexit. You are the have your cake and eat it mob. Grow up will you.
no explanation from melv there, perhaps paddletoe can do better.
you see its like this, when autumn comes the leaves fall from the tree.
that is a fact.
now to say that immigrants create growth and wealth for all, is that a fact? I don't know I have not observed it.
cosmopolitan cities are the most creative and wealthy? I don't know.
what does London create now, how creative was it in the past compared to now, who were its great people, it great scientists, its great musicians, its great writers.
do you know that Isacc Newton came fro Cambridge 400 years ago?
when an apple falls from the tree that is because of gravity, newton taught us that and had the formulas to prove it.
that is a fact.
you see its like this, when autumn comes the leaves fall from the tree.
that is a fact.
now to say that immigrants create growth and wealth for all, is that a fact? I don't know I have not observed it.
cosmopolitan cities are the most creative and wealthy? I don't know.
what does London create now, how creative was it in the past compared to now, who were its great people, it great scientists, its great musicians, its great writers.
do you know that Isacc Newton came fro Cambridge 400 years ago?
when an apple falls from the tree that is because of gravity, newton taught us that and had the formulas to prove it.
that is a fact.
Could it be that people follow wealth and don't create it? Of course some people do, but these gifted people are very rare. Almost all of us could be replaced by a hundred or a thousand others. And then who have been these few exceptional people?
Well most of them have been English, who would deny that?
Well most of them have been English, who would deny that?
Are all scientists and engineers and writers and musicians and poets English, I mean the really great ones. Not all perhaps but more than anywhere else in the world?
Yes, that's a fact.
Yes, that's a fact.
London isn't wealthy. The residents of the crescent of counties from Norfolk/Suffolk round to Hampshire are the creative and wealthy powerhouse of England.
In the USA the wealthiest states by PPP per head are no longer cosmopolitan New York and California but more homogeneous Texas and Kansas, but that's in part due to liberal planning laws which reduce housing costs.
But overall hundreds of researchers have tried to prove empirically that racially and religiously diverse societies are richer, and they haven't found a shred of evidence to back that. There's no conclusive evidence the other way either. So the diversity lovers just assert their claim while taking your money for their salaries, and it's only a few Milos that are calling bullsheet on it.
In the USA the wealthiest states by PPP per head are no longer cosmopolitan New York and California but more homogeneous Texas and Kansas, but that's in part due to liberal planning laws which reduce housing costs.
But overall hundreds of researchers have tried to prove empirically that racially and religiously diverse societies are richer, and they haven't found a shred of evidence to back that. There's no conclusive evidence the other way either. So the diversity lovers just assert their claim while taking your money for their salaries, and it's only a few Milos that are calling bullsheet on it.
Sir Alexander Fleming- founder of Penicillin = born Ayrshire
Of course anxious, I remember him and assumed everyone else did also
Its just a plain fact that immigrants create growth and wealth for all.
With UK government debt running at over £1.6 trillion we're simply wallowing in added wealth aren't we?
Who's better off for all this immigration? Certainly not the working classes who can't get housing, jobs or decent healthcare. Then there's education that's failing the poor like never before.
Don't we just love immigration?
With UK government debt running at over £1.6 trillion we're simply wallowing in added wealth aren't we?
Who's better off for all this immigration? Certainly not the working classes who can't get housing, jobs or decent healthcare. Then there's education that's failing the poor like never before.
Don't we just love immigration?
Benjamin Franklin - founder of electricity - born Boston . United States
You will find that I always say that the US and England are the two greatest countries in history, do you know that the US are not sending us millions of their unemployed?
Yes he was the greatest of all, perhaps? As far as I know he didn't work in a warehouse in England.
Very good what might Britain have achieved had Einstein immigrated to England ? well we will never know. What we do know is that during Einstein life England was the most creative and powerful and wealthy nation in history.
We mustn't be too greedy
We mustn't be too greedy
Wildman nails it.
This is one of the smooth talking berks who caused so much misery to the Greek population.
He's a typical top politician who could charm the birds from the trees, but couldn't run a whelk stall.
He should be in jail for sheer incompetence.
Spot on. Guys is nuts (Thats being kind) Going around in leathers on his motorbike with his girlfriend and his country burned.
In the Middle ages, he'd have been burned at the stake
This is one of the smooth talking berks who caused so much misery to the Greek population.
He's a typical top politician who could charm the birds from the trees, but couldn't run a whelk stall.
He should be in jail for sheer incompetence.
Spot on. Guys is nuts (Thats being kind) Going around in leathers on his motorbike with his girlfriend and his country burned.
In the Middle ages, he'd have been burned at the stake
I cant answer any questions about the specifics of what he said on Question Time as I fell asleep. Not through boredom but simply tiredness through working very long hours.
I was speaking on a more general point that there have been few people in politics that I have seen as inspirational. I see him as someone whose general views on what is right and wrong I share and he has a charismatic way of communicating things that stands out as unique. Those are the charicteristics I am talking about.
I was speaking on a more general point that there have been few people in politics that I have seen as inspirational. I see him as someone whose general views on what is right and wrong I share and he has a charismatic way of communicating things that stands out as unique. Those are the charicteristics I am talking about.
Yes I understood that might be your perspective paddletoe, but I am afraid many of us have come to distrust politicians. Especially those who spot nice platitudes and in my own biased way especially leftists and liberals.
But despite having these views I am still always looking for facts, that is what I love and honour. And that is why I asked had he any explanation for his claims, and hoped to find that you didn't just take him at his word,
We are becoming too weary and suspicious, isn't it awful?
But despite having these views I am still always looking for facts, that is what I love and honour. And that is why I asked had he any explanation for his claims, and hoped to find that you didn't just take him at his word,
We are becoming too weary and suspicious, isn't it awful?
Hitler possessed those qualities paddletoe.
My point is that people should not be influenced by presentation and brilliant use of language. The focus should be on their actions and nothing else.
Blair was as good as anyone regarding presentation. We all know how that ended.
With this Greek guy we have his political record in power to go on never mind what he says.
My point is that people should not be influenced by presentation and brilliant use of language. The focus should be on their actions and nothing else.
Blair was as good as anyone regarding presentation. We all know how that ended.
With this Greek guy we have his political record in power to go on never mind what he says.
I very rarely take people at their word especially in instances where the circumstances are such that they may have reasons not to tell the whole truth. But there are some people in everyones life whose word is good enough and I am talking beyond politics and about life in general.
Oct 22, 2016 -- 8:55AM, melv wrote:
This is typical of "You lot on here". Its just a plain fact that immigrants create growth and wealth for all. Cosmopolitan cities are the most vibrant creative and wealthy cities. Like London. This is the truth these are facts. The fact that you do not like it does not make it false. Also we desperately need immigrants to do the dirty low paid jobs we simply won't do. Above all many of us will need immigrants to wipe our assses for us when we are aged. If we are a right wing inward infighting country these service's will be even worse than they are now and wages for care workers even lower and we will need immigrants even more to do the dirty work for a pittance. We won't do it for sure.OOOOOOOOOOOOhhh you don't want that. Now you want strong unions. Now you want a properly funded health service. You need a socialist government for that. But you don't want that. I think I'll stop calling you hard Brexit. You are the have your cake and eat it mob. Grow up will you.
And still idiots typed nonsense... will it ever end?
If you think that a referendum ends freedom of speech then you have got a worrying concept of a civilised society. If you think that parliamentarians should be gagged because they do not agree with you; you are dangerously wrong.
If you think that your interpretation of brexit is more valid than anyone else's. Read my lips you are categorically wrong. Hopefully open debate on issues as important as this should never end. Should it?
If you think that your interpretation of brexit is more valid than anyone else's. Read my lips you are categorically wrong. Hopefully open debate on issues as important as this should never end. Should it?
Ifc1971 loves facts. Here's 2. Does he honour the fact that there are many forms Brexit can take. Including "soft Brexit". Does he accept the fact that the vote is so non specific that free movement of labour between member states (in some form) can still conceptually be part of soft brexit.
I'll leave the nature of parliamentary democracy for now but I suspect there's a few facts about the mother of parliaments that he does not accept either. Which may be fair enough as they are about to be tested in a court of law. Which I hope he honours.
I bet he does not like facts that do not suit him.
P.S we are all honourable on here.
I'll leave the nature of parliamentary democracy for now but I suspect there's a few facts about the mother of parliaments that he does not accept either. Which may be fair enough as they are about to be tested in a court of law. Which I hope he honours.
I bet he does not like facts that do not suit him.
P.S we are all honourable on here.
well melv, the ballot paper as far as I remember was printed in English, and not Arabic.
and it seemed pretty clear to me.
and it seemed pretty clear to me.
if you are asking what does it mean in the future in regard to immigration, and trade, and our laws, and how we are governed.
well that is something that will be for Britain to decide, and Britain only. We will make these decisions and all of them once we have left the EU
that's how it works.
well that is something that will be for Britain to decide, and Britain only. We will make these decisions and all of them once we have left the EU
that's how it works.
what people don't grasp is even after leaving the EU, and assuming some things change but heaven knows this is not guaranteed then we will still be living under the same circumstances that being in the EU has created.
nothing will really change for decades, perhaps for ever. The damage done over the last decades has been too enormous and ingrained that it may be impossible to escape from the madness of the decisions made by the EU and our own government.
nothing will really change for decades, perhaps for ever. The damage done over the last decades has been too enormous and ingrained that it may be impossible to escape from the madness of the decisions made by the EU and our own government.
we have to ask what are benefits of having trade deals, how exactly do trade deals make Britain wealthier, or do trade deals come with so many added drawbacks that they bring many and more problems than benefits.
why are trade deals linked to free movement of labour? is it because no country would allow this unless they were forced.
trade deals must exist in and of themselves, not to manipulate a country into giving up its freedoms and to put it in danger.
why are trade deals linked to free movement of labour? is it because no country would allow this unless they were forced.
trade deals must exist in and of themselves, not to manipulate a country into giving up its freedoms and to put it in danger.
I would not be against us going back to imperial measurements either, but as that was not on the ballot paper perhaps we won`t bother.
the question is how are we linked to the EU, well only in one way, just one that can really damage us and that is immigration and free movement of labour
everything else is normal, merely business.
the question is how are we linked to the EU, well only in one way, just one that can really damage us and that is immigration and free movement of labour
everything else is normal, merely business.
I would not be against us going back to imperial measurements either
What?
Second thoughts as there are some on here wanting the Empire back I suppose its not a bad call.
What?
Second thoughts as there are some on here wanting the Empire back I suppose its not a bad call.
lfc1971
22 Oct 16 13:48
Joined: 06 Nov 11
| Topic/replies: 9,335 | Blogger: lfc1971's blog
we have to ask what are benefits of having trade deals, how exactly do trade deals make Britain wealthier, or do trade deals come with so many added drawbacks that they bring many and more problems than benefits.
why are trade deals linked to free movement of labour? is it because no country would allow this unless they were forced.
...
Trade is linked to free movement of people (not labour people) is because the goal of the globalists is to get rid of the nation state. What better way to do this than how open borders so millions of people of different cultures mix and dilute their national identity? If states have no national identity they can easily be manipulated as they have nothing to fight for.
22 Oct 16 13:48
Joined: 06 Nov 11
| Topic/replies: 9,335 | Blogger: lfc1971's blog
we have to ask what are benefits of having trade deals, how exactly do trade deals make Britain wealthier, or do trade deals come with so many added drawbacks that they bring many and more problems than benefits.
why are trade deals linked to free movement of labour? is it because no country would allow this unless they were forced.
...
Trade is linked to free movement of people (not labour people) is because the goal of the globalists is to get rid of the nation state. What better way to do this than how open borders so millions of people of different cultures mix and dilute their national identity? If states have no national identity they can easily be manipulated as they have nothing to fight for.
Oct 22, 2016 -- 1:48PM, lfc1971 wrote:
we have to ask what are benefits of having trade deals, how exactly do trade deals make Britain wealthier, or do trade deals come with so many added drawbacks that they bring many and more problems than benefits.why are trade deals linked to free movement of labour? is it because no country would allow this unless they were forced.trade deals must exist in and of themselves, not to manipulate a country into giving up its freedoms and to put it in danger.
Why have trade deals. The economy works best when businesses on one side sell to consumers on the other side. The consumers are the final arbitrator of goods and services and it's up to the entrepreneur to make/sell what consumer wants. What the hell has politicians got to do with it? nothing. Trade deals is stupid.
The ballot says "Leave the EU".
It does not say leave the single market. It says nowt about immigration. It says nowt about any of the other issues that "you lot " think you voted for. Its as clear as mud.
It does not say leave the single market. It says nowt about immigration. It says nowt about any of the other issues that "you lot " think you voted for. Its as clear as mud.
melv, what exactly do you think that membership of the EU entails?
in reality we have to return to being an independent country. that is what pretty much everyone who voted leave wanted. Now that is simply not possible with free movement of labour
there can still be immigration, but there cannot be the automatic right of citizens of EU countries to come and live and work in Britain.
for that to continue then Britain would not be independent and free from the EU, and that is what people voted for.
there can still be immigration, but there cannot be the automatic right of citizens of EU countries to come and live and work in Britain.
for that to continue then Britain would not be independent and free from the EU, and that is what people voted for.
immigration becomes the preserve of the government in power in Britain. that's all, no one from Europe or anywhere else in the world can have a say on that.
free movement of labour is not and never should have been linked to trade deals, why is it ? that`s simple no one would allow it if they were not being manipulated by the Europeans in Brussels.
if we do not have control from stopping any number of people from coming to live in Britain then we have not left Europe.
it doesn't matter if some people who voted leave were not overly concerned about this but were more concerned about something else(I don`t know what)
if they did not want free labour of movement to stop that is to bad.
because by voting to leave the EU that is the natural and inevitable conclusion.
it doesn't matter if some people who voted leave were not overly concerned about this but were more concerned about something else(I don`t know what)
if they did not want free labour of movement to stop that is to bad.
because by voting to leave the EU that is the natural and inevitable conclusion.
now it may be that some of those who voted leave did not want to end the free movement of labour
it`s possible that some who voted leave did not want to end the power that Brussels has over Britain and its ability to function as an independent country
it`s possible that some, a few of those who voted leave may be that stupid, but I for one don't believe that those who voted leave are stupid.
it`s possible that some who voted leave did not want to end the power that Brussels has over Britain and its ability to function as an independent country
it`s possible that some, a few of those who voted leave may be that stupid, but I for one don't believe that those who voted leave are stupid.
what does being part of the EU mean? it means one thing and one thing only. the free movement of labour.
nothing else matters.
nothing else matters.
everything else can and is accomplished by independent countries right throughout the world, I am sure I read about it somewhere.
no country can plan its economy, no country can raise taxes, no country can make laws, no country can be democratic, no country can progress and be peaceful and protect its citizens
unless it can decide who lives within its borders.
unless it can decide who lives within its borders.
let me put it as simply as possible for Melv, if we don`t stop the free movement of labour into England then nothing will have changed.
It says "Leave the EU". Its a fact we must leave the EU. I'll say it again. What form the "Leave EU" takes is up to parliament. Its not up to you lot on here. Its not even up to a little self appointed gang of Brexiters in Westminster. Its up to parliament.
We are supposed to have a load of extremely honest lovers of facts and truth on here. So they claim.
Here's A fact. "Its up to parliament"
Here'e the truth "Its up to parliament."
I'll paste it again in case it gets through at least one persons head."Its up to parliament."
"Its up to parliament.""Its up to parliament.""Its up to parliament.""Its up to parliament."
We are supposed to have a load of extremely honest lovers of facts and truth on here. So they claim.
Here's A fact. "Its up to parliament"
Here'e the truth "Its up to parliament."
I'll paste it again in case it gets through at least one persons head."Its up to parliament."
"Its up to parliament.""Its up to parliament.""Its up to parliament.""Its up to parliament."
here`s a fact, its not up to parliament they do not govern and have no power.
can government look to establish new trade deals, and have the power to make decisions on immigration etc?
yes but they will be new, not existing deals and will not allow free access to every one of the 27 EU countries to live and work in England
that cannot happen, and imo will not happen...lets see
can government look to establish new trade deals, and have the power to make decisions on immigration etc?
yes but they will be new, not existing deals and will not allow free access to every one of the 27 EU countries to live and work in England
that cannot happen, and imo will not happen...lets see
so this is what I am saying, parliament, and government will not be able to maintain the present position whereby as members of the EU millions of citizens from 28 different countries have free access to live and work in Britain
parliament and government will not be able to maintain that, it is not up to them now that we have voted to leave, that will be an impossible position to maintain
that is a fact, imo, lets see who is right.
parliament and government will not be able to maintain that, it is not up to them now that we have voted to leave, that will be an impossible position to maintain
that is a fact, imo, lets see who is right.
We can't half leave the EU.
We're either in it or we're not.
Leaving means giving up our membership of the single market with all the strings attached to that, and reclaiming the sovereignty issues we have given away.
The negotiations will be for the purpose of striking a trade deal with the EU, which is better than the one that exist for non-members of the union without a special deal at the moment.
Nevertheless, if we can't get a deal that excludes the free movement issue, then we'll simply carry on trading with them as a non member and play tit for tat with the tariffs.
The EU doesn't want that any more than we do.
So there's no question of a soft Brexit unless they're prepared to climb down over their fundamental rules about free movement of labour and people.
Or we climbing down over our opposition to the free movement issue.
And neither of us look like doing any of that as it stands now.
So at the end of the day the negotiations will be about tariffs.
We're either in it or we're not.
Leaving means giving up our membership of the single market with all the strings attached to that, and reclaiming the sovereignty issues we have given away.
The negotiations will be for the purpose of striking a trade deal with the EU, which is better than the one that exist for non-members of the union without a special deal at the moment.
Nevertheless, if we can't get a deal that excludes the free movement issue, then we'll simply carry on trading with them as a non member and play tit for tat with the tariffs.
The EU doesn't want that any more than we do.
So there's no question of a soft Brexit unless they're prepared to climb down over their fundamental rules about free movement of labour and people.
Or we climbing down over our opposition to the free movement issue.
And neither of us look like doing any of that as it stands now.
So at the end of the day the negotiations will be about tariffs.
So you will find
here is a fact "its not up to parliament"
here is the truth "its not up to parliament"
here is a fact "its not up to parliament"
here is the truth "its not up to parliament"
There are always winners and losers in any deal.
That's the trouble with negotiating with the EU as the Canadians have found. You have to please all of the countries within the EU in order to strike a deal.
Who knows? There must be countries in the EU who will be glad to get shot of us, so that they can sell the stuff that we supply them with at the moment.
They will oppose anything that's suggested anyway.
I can't see anything working except punishing tariffs, with the set of rules that the EU have at the moment.
That's the trouble with negotiating with the EU as the Canadians have found. You have to please all of the countries within the EU in order to strike a deal.
Who knows? There must be countries in the EU who will be glad to get shot of us, so that they can sell the stuff that we supply them with at the moment.
They will oppose anything that's suggested anyway.
I can't see anything working except punishing tariffs, with the set of rules that the EU have at the moment.
here`s a fact, its not up to parliament they do not govern and have no power.
But despite having these views I am still always looking for facts, that is what I love and honour.
Its pure nonsense. This sort of gibberish has no place in a rational discussion. I feel like I am talking to some-one from another planet. This mess will be sorted out by parliament in a clear rational fashion. This weird talk will have no part in it. Are you a bit angry or summat? If so its gone to your head.
But despite having these views I am still always looking for facts, that is what I love and honour.
Its pure nonsense. This sort of gibberish has no place in a rational discussion. I feel like I am talking to some-one from another planet. This mess will be sorted out by parliament in a clear rational fashion. This weird talk will have no part in it. Are you a bit angry or summat? If so its gone to your head.
lfc is a master in the dark art of using circular logic.
paddletoe its like this. If a country gives away its citizenship too freely do other countries admire it?
do other people admire the people of the country that gives away its citizenship too freely?
no they don`t, they despise the country and the people of that country.
no one likes to be thankful
everyone wants whatever he is to be thanks to himself.
that's entirely thanks to me is something a person likes to say.
that's why it is disasterous to allow mass immigration and free movement of labour.
I cannot explain it any better than that.
do other people admire the people of the country that gives away its citizenship too freely?
no they don`t, they despise the country and the people of that country.
no one likes to be thankful
everyone wants whatever he is to be thanks to himself.
that's entirely thanks to me is something a person likes to say.
that's why it is disasterous to allow mass immigration and free movement of labour.
I cannot explain it any better than that.
News flash Ifc you are not personally the embodiment of this nation. We.... this nation can feel proud of ourselves. We this nation can be proud of ourselves by working together for the benefit of all.
We have a system which allows a diversity of options and feelings to be respected. That is what is admired all over the world as can be seen by Yanis Varoufalis's love of this country. Our parliamentary democracy is not perfect but it is the envy of the world. This is because is allows a variety of views and ways of life to be respected and to be given equality under the law.
Its bizarre that I as an internationalist should be lecturing a so called patriot in what it means to love his country rather than his own opinions. After the NHS, the welfare state and education for all I admire the legal system of parliamentary democracy the most. And that includes your right to a voice just as much as me. Self contradiction on the other hand is more difficult to swallow.
We have a system which allows a diversity of options and feelings to be respected. That is what is admired all over the world as can be seen by Yanis Varoufalis's love of this country. Our parliamentary democracy is not perfect but it is the envy of the world. This is because is allows a variety of views and ways of life to be respected and to be given equality under the law.
Its bizarre that I as an internationalist should be lecturing a so called patriot in what it means to love his country rather than his own opinions. After the NHS, the welfare state and education for all I admire the legal system of parliamentary democracy the most. And that includes your right to a voice just as much as me. Self contradiction on the other hand is more difficult to swallow.
News flash Ifc you are not personally the embodiment of this nation. We.... this nation can feel proud of ourselves. We this nation can be proud of ourselves by working together for the benefit of all.
We have a system which allows a diversity of options and feelings to be respected. That is what is admired all over the world as can be seen by Yanis Varoufalis's love of this country. Our parliamentary democracy is not perfect but it is the envy of the world. This is because is allows a variety of views and ways of life to be respected and to be given equality under the law.
Its bizarre that I as an internationalist should be lecturing a so called patriot in what it means to love his country rather than his own opinions. After the NHS, the welfare state and education for all I admire the legal system of parliamentary democracy the most. And that includes your right to a voice just as much as me. Self contradiction on the other hand is more difficult to swallow.
We have a system which allows a diversity of options and feelings to be respected. That is what is admired all over the world as can be seen by Yanis Varoufalis's love of this country. Our parliamentary democracy is not perfect but it is the envy of the world. This is because is allows a variety of views and ways of life to be respected and to be given equality under the law.
Its bizarre that I as an internationalist should be lecturing a so called patriot in what it means to love his country rather than his own opinions. After the NHS, the welfare state and education for all I admire the legal system of parliamentary democracy the most. And that includes your right to a voice just as much as me. Self contradiction on the other hand is more difficult to swallow.
I don`t agree with any of that melv. You don`t appear to have any idea of what democracy means or what it is.
its pretty subtle but democracy is not about allowing a variety of views and ways of life to be respected and to be given equality under the law...if anything it is the opposite of this.
western democracy, stretching back to ancient Greece is essentially exclusive, not inclusive.
it says these are our values, we believe these to be the best values.
it does not believe that all ways of life or values are to be respected and given equality under the law.
and it does not believe that all ways of life, or all cultures are equal, or all religions are equal, or all civilisations are equal.
no democracy does not believe any of that, quite the opposite.
its pretty subtle but democracy is not about allowing a variety of views and ways of life to be respected and to be given equality under the law...if anything it is the opposite of this.
western democracy, stretching back to ancient Greece is essentially exclusive, not inclusive.
it says these are our values, we believe these to be the best values.
it does not believe that all ways of life or values are to be respected and given equality under the law.
and it does not believe that all ways of life, or all cultures are equal, or all religions are equal, or all civilisations are equal.
no democracy does not believe any of that, quite the opposite.
Now also you do not understand how our parliamentary democracy works, I know you think you do but I can assure you you don't.
I have looked at some of the things you have said and that is why I know you don't understand it.
Perhaps you would like to put forward your belief in how it works and I will show you where you are wrong.
I have looked at some of the things you have said and that is why I know you don't understand it.
Perhaps you would like to put forward your belief in how it works and I will show you where you are wrong.
All that demonstrates your essential modesty and self effacing nature, lfc ! I am sure melv will bow to your superior knowledge.
There are more holes in melv's lecture than a colander.
He sings the praise of the British system, then proposes to give up control of it and dilute its culture and public services through mass immigration.
Proud to be British?
It sounds more like he can't wait to consign the word to history.
Lord save us from internationalists if melv's an example of one.
Wouldn't nation hater be more appropriate than internationalist?
He sings the praise of the British system, then proposes to give up control of it and dilute its culture and public services through mass immigration.
Proud to be British?
It sounds more like he can't wait to consign the word to history.
Lord save us from internationalists if melv's an example of one.
Wouldn't nation hater be more appropriate than internationalist?
We have a system which allows a diversity of options and feelings to be respected.
That used to be the case.
Now if you say the wrong thing you can find yourself in very serious trouble.
Or find yourself on the carpet at work if you wear a crucifix. In a Christian country at that!
You're living in the past mate.
That used to be the case.
Now if you say the wrong thing you can find yourself in very serious trouble.
Or find yourself on the carpet at work if you wear a crucifix. In a Christian country at that!
You're living in the past mate.
The bitter remainers just cannot accept that unlimited freedom of movement is over. If the cost of that is we lose access to the phoney single market so be it.
Icf I said a diversity of opinions lifestyles etc. I did not say all. I respect your point of view when you heatedly assert that all humans are not equal. I reserve judgement about what that implies in your case.
Just google parliamentary democracy. If you do not know what it is. In a nutshell parliament and only parliament makes and un-makes law.
BTW trade deal with any country will involve abiding by agreements. In order to be in trade deals with Europe such as those in the EU we must abide by those agreements. (AS I'm sure you know the EU is not the only set of trade deals we have with Europe and we did not vote on these.
Just google parliamentary democracy. If you do not know what it is. In a nutshell parliament and only parliament makes and un-makes law.
BTW trade deal with any country will involve abiding by agreements. In order to be in trade deals with Europe such as those in the EU we must abide by those agreements. (AS I'm sure you know the EU is not the only set of trade deals we have with Europe and we did not vote on these.
melv for almost 500 years English law is what the English parliament says is the law
who gives them that power? the people of this country
but we don't trust them that much, that's why we give them only 5 years
that seems a reasonable compromise.
who gives them that power? the people of this country
but we don't trust them that much, that's why we give them only 5 years
that seems a reasonable compromise.
so we allow them that power in the knowledge that what they decide can be reversed..by the people.
they do not have the power to make any decisions that cannot be reversed by the people.
that is why I said that parliament does not have any power.
they do not have the power to make any decisions that cannot be reversed by the people.
that is why I said that parliament does not have any power.
On the question of whether all humans are equal, the answer to that is it depends what you mean. If we mean are all cultures equal, are all religions equal, are all countries equal, are all political ideals equal, are all beliefs equal, for example, no I don't believe that
Are all humans equally beautiful? perhaps not, but that doesn't matter, not really ...thank goodness : )
Ifd I wish you would acknowledge that you have confirmed what I said re parliamentary democracy. When you then go on to make up your own rules to the contrary its nonsense.
melv for almost 500 years English law is what the English parliament says is the law
who gives them that power? the people of this country
but we don't trust them that much, that's why we give them only 5 years
they do not have the power to make any decisions that cannot be reversed by the people.
The British people have witnessed a parliament giving away our sovereignty to a corrupt organisation for two decades and now we are reversing that decision,that sounds quite understandable now.
who gives them that power? the people of this country
but we don't trust them that much, that's why we give them only 5 years
they do not have the power to make any decisions that cannot be reversed by the people.
The British people have witnessed a parliament giving away our sovereignty to a corrupt organisation for two decades and now we are reversing that decision,that sounds quite understandable now.
No he is an atheist.
Varoufakis born into a cushy life and married into a rich life.
Spent his adult life in University/academia - speaking/theorising.
He had a brief stint within Greek politics as Finance Minister, lasted about a week after the bail-outs.
What is he? a champaign Marxist? Bravo
Varoufakis born into a cushy life and married into a rich life.
Spent his adult life in University/academia - speaking/theorising.
He had a brief stint within Greek politics as Finance Minister, lasted about a week after the bail-outs.
What is he? a champaign Marxist? Bravo
I meant job creationist.Sorry.Apparently the Greeks could do with some work.He is lauded ,so we must assume he is clever.Therefore he could create jobs if redirecting his energies.
A smug gauche caviar.
A smug gauche caviar.
In Europe there is nothing to stop him or people like Steve Kinnock from starting businesses,becoming rich and paying high wages.All they want to do is carp.
People from diverse backgrounds have become successful and wealthy so please explain Yanis what is wrong with the system.
People from diverse backgrounds have become successful and wealthy so please explain Yanis what is wrong with the system.
If I overspend and end up laden with debt through foolishness is it really the fault of the system?
24 years guy on C4 tonight 31K of unsecured debt.Typical Yanis supporter when he has FA.He is of the age that blames old folk.Hope by the time he's my age the oil is gone and the icecaps are gone.
The one thing the young can do for me is to keep smoking.Big dividends are nice.The young get to look defiant and cool.Rebel rebel.
He is a Corbyn style economic illiterate.
Knows nowt about nowt in the real world.
Would be great at running a Friday night Marxist book club but has wandered massively over his pay grade.
Knows nowt about nowt in the real world.
Would be great at running a Friday night Marxist book club but has wandered massively over his pay grade.
He is a professor of economics.
I love the poetic relation to facts on here. Its so sweet.
I especially love all those who claim to be lords of evidence and facts and then just make stuff up; off the top of their heads just so they can have something to vent their anger with. I hope it helps.
I love the poetic relation to facts on here. Its so sweet.
I especially love all those who claim to be lords of evidence and facts and then just make stuff up; off the top of their heads just so they can have something to vent their anger with. I hope it helps.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539