EU immigration figures - why all the lies?

doesnt that help prove my point about gdp per capita? we will never know the true population. i've wetted my finger and stuck it in the air and i've come up with a figure of 4 million more people in the country than the government says. this is an estimate based on about 200,000 per year for the last 20 years. many who came years ago will have sent for their families as well. its a made up number just like most government figures.

Make your mind up. One minute government figures are the gold standard because you don't like models. Now you're sticking your finger in the air after wetting it.

Have you got your magical digit insured?

Me? I'm with Paxman. They're all lying baastards. All I have to do is find out why.

To be clear so you don't accuse me of misrepresenting you I'll quote you:

eo ive only managed to read the summary page but imo it contains a few contradictory statements about the effect of the depreciation. also their claim of gdp being 3.5% higher due to the devaluation is based on their model not actual recorded numbers. economic models are little more than guesswork, did their model predict the worse recession since 1929? i dont know the answer but my guess is that, like the rest of the mainstream, it probably didnt. in economic models you have to make assumptions, change your assumptions and you change the outcome. although i find a lot of government figures to be somewhat unreliable i think they are better than relying on a model, actual numbers versus a computer generated number.

Hey there EO. I hope I was not missed too much the last week by my fan club. I was working 15 hours a day for the last week but I spent about half an hour writing you a private. Not sure if you got it but it was all wiped before I was coming aroud to answering a certain question and will get their in the end but have not to heart to see the same thing possible. I am buying my own house presently also but would prefer a man with a family walk away with a few quid in certain situations around houses owned by banks. It will be a lot cash money in a plastic bag and I am getting nothing much out of it would be against my moral code not to hand over that money to him when its a a private and non existan deal Allegedly. Need to have a wee word with him as we discussed it when caught unawares and had not slept much in a few days. I am a little unhappy that he took advantage of my good nature when I had him by the balls but I would be my style to use the bargaining power over him and rather than feel bad and give hima bit short at the end I would rather put things straight now. He is not from our town but he must have thought I came down the road in a bubble. when we talked about our business and I was not in top form. He is in for a surprise when I have a friendly chat wit him a few days if he even haggles for a penny when I am actually going out of my way to give him a more than a few quid he could get from anywhere else.

How is my back your probably wondering. I am making a slow recovering and just for the record I have not stated I am making any claims for injuries. Better t be safe than sorry and give yoruself options. U
I have a high threshold of feeling pain so its hard to say an.

That was some handlin  on the other thread. Actually did claim compensatiAnd as usual being too nice got me. Was on the wrong end of fight in a country bar when I stepped in to help a friend.

You tell me what you do in that situation.

Claim against the bar. NOt an option.

Or claim against the n.ireland office for the stiches I needed when according tohit me wa ofical veriod of enetd I got botttile esd mu nnsmr on fired by  s group of protredtsnt eho cled ms **** b>>>>>>>.
fEW weks aago I bumpred into a car infrointand obviously I wanted to check if they were odad in the kids as there were 2 chidren and their car. there WOULD BE SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG WHERE I LIVE IF DOMETIMES AN XTRA PASSENGER ENDED UP IN THE CARS AND THEY ALL werehurt  question  going toERTE HURT.Of course I am not gong to o disputeheirt versoon of events.

With my own injuries I sucked all the pain up like a man and even still went to work every single day and a lot of nights too.

And I am the bad guy!

eo in my first post on that thread i said 'government figures arent worth squat, the true level of inflation is far higher than the official numbers.'

in my second post which you quoted above  i said 'although i find a lot of government figures to be somewhat unreliable i think they are better than relying on a model, actual numbers versus a computer generated number'.

there is a clear difference in tone, the first is somewhat bombastic, but the basic message is the same, tread with caution when using government numbers.

in your penultimate post you say 'One minute government figures are the gold standard because you don't like models.' then in your next post you say 'so you dont accuse me of misrepresenting you' and then you put in that big quote from my second post. you have misrepresnted me, nowhere did i say or suggest that government figures are 'the gold standard', those are your words not mine.

that article shows that my distrust of governments is well placed, presumably you posted it because you dont believe the government numbers on immigration either?

my 4 million figure is tongue in cheek to demonstrate that there is much guesswork around. bearing in mind your numbers above suggest 1.25 million from the eu in the last five years which arent shown in official migration figures and people have had free access from most of europe from 2004 my digit may well be right. especially as blair and co invited the rest of the world here from 97.

i wont be insuring said digit as it is often used to help throw darts at the board when making decisions on which horses to back and it isnt very good in that respect. maybe i've found its calling, i may get in touch with the ons and offer my services.

It is odd how all these people have been shouted down, accused of racism or little englanders.  All these 'right wing thugs' appear to have been right.  We have been lied to and numbers hidden. They are twice the amount of the official figure.  I thought farage was a fruit cake according to the pro EU and pro migrant officianados.  It seems farage etc were right. It is a sad day for us socialists that we have no answer and no policies either - its basically carry on with the mess we have helped to create.
Many of the people coming here are non-union which business will exploit as well as the very low wages paid to many.
On the other side, foreign companies bidding for work here only employ their own people eg spanish engineers rather than locals here.
Work will go to the cheapest and lets forget about our own black white asian youth on the dole.

there was an interesting if somehwat worrying discussion of these very numbers on daily politics today with jonathon portas of the niesr. he said that the lower figure is just a survey number whereas the higher number is for people who have actually registered for a ni number. he pointed out that some of those who registered for a ni number may be students who didnt do any work and some may have come for short term seasonal work. the worrying thing is that it doesnt include children aged 0-15 so the number could be higher. he said each figure has a use but he prefered the ni number as it at leat gave an idea of how many were working. the two numbers have been diverging for several years.

he had tried to investigate the discrepancy as cameron had mentioned the number on benefits. he pointed out that hmrc would be able to give an accurate number of those working and the nature of the work they are doing as they collect taxes from them. similarly the dwp could tell how many on benefits. so he had written to these two departments so he could work out which number is correct. unfortunately neither department would help, their reasons for not helping seemed pretty weak.

when andrew neil asked him what he thought the real figure was he wouldnt guess and said he had asked several colleagues who also work in this field and none of them wanted to guess either. so there it is, we could find out an accurate number without too much effort but the government wont tell us.

The lies have persisted for years.
Bliar was clearly the main culprit; Dave being the PR man told the punters what they wanted to hear; he would get it below 100,000.  its 330, 000 and rising.

We were told the Home Office wasn't for for purpose as a series of faces came and went. The figure has got worse under Theresa. she has blamed the EC for the failure, but now supports staying in.

susie i fear its a lot lot more than 330,000 a year.

eo, i've clearly highlighted that you misrepresented my position, surely an apology is in order?

I'll apologise when you substantiate the point I raised. You said that GDP per head was lower now than before the crisis. You've provided no evidence for that assertion. Of course there is every prospect of it not being as high as official figures suggest if the figures on immigration are inaccurate. Which doesn't prove your own assertion.

Over to you.

no, no, no. you're changing the subject as ever. i've reprinted my actual comments on the subject of goverment figures. you said 'One minute government figures are the gold standard...' nowhere did i say or suggest such a thing. if i had miesrepresnted you in this way you would want a retraction.

i'll deal with the gdp figures on the other thread as appropriate.

jololyswagman - Don't get mired in this argument. Look at the amount of posts EO has ratcheted up since his last persona, he's a troll.

There was a recent thread about Eternaloptiimist intervening on a thread involving a bet between myself and EO's nemesis, Menelaus; where the figure of a sad obsessive in Wick hunched over his laptop (it was three years ago) kind of leapt out at the reader. Unfortunately, it has been deleted.

thanks ub, he's clearly deluded. whist these two threads are providing me with  much entertainment i dont propose to stay on them much longer.

Wise. He bore you out, then claim a victory.

i think all i did was give him the rope. he insisted on grabbing it from me, tying the noose, putting the noose around his neck and then pulling the trap door open.

think all i did was give him the rope. he insisted on grabbing it from me, tying the noose, putting the noose around his neck and then pulling the trap door open.
Then realizing he was standing in the wrong place.

I do love a good forum wedding. Adam and Steve. Bless Cameron for that.

the only problem you have is that united biscuits and i disagreed on the subject matter, we were though able to do so in a civil manner.

still no apology for misrepresnting what i said about government figures.

i was kind to you when i raised the possibility of you being an agent provocateur. troll is the modern word and that's what you are.

Either you have something of merit to offer the debate in which case let's see it or you don't. You seem to want to have your cake and eat it. Taking pot shots on the one hand and squealing about how your good reputation has been traduced on the other.

Shape up or shiit out.

meanwhile the 300000 figure looks like it should be 600000 according to other sources haha

Deceit and yet more deceit from the EU, this referendum campaign reminds me more and more of the case of Jim Hacker fighting forthe British sausage !

We simply have to come out and get some control, the Labour stance I find irritating. The very people it allegedly represents are the ones that suffer when thousands upon thousands of unskilled workers come across looking for work. Tory bosses loving it , hence all those companies falling over themselves to say stay in, they love a cheap labour force. The Westminster elite are clueless. Competition for housing, schools, jobs, medical services at the bottom will just rise. That doesnt affect MPs, bankers, lawyers accountants etc, escept keep the price of their Nannies down