*** Michael Gove backing the Leave Euro Campaign ***

as I said earlier he is under orders

Under orders of what?

Cameron has told any brexit supporters in the cabinet not to support the Leave.EU/GO campaign. They are to join the Leave Euro group who are fronted by an ex Tory advisor.

Well i was just copying the telegraph. Politicians should be free to join any groups they want and porky-me-Dave can go f e c k himself.

There's all sorts of obscure EU laws that don't come under scrutiny. They push through minority interests for the sake of party politics, usually the EPP & S&D just push it through without thought.

Thanks CJ, but have any of these re-negotiations Dave has Battled for affected any of it?

Dave did pretty well in Brussels, imo, but King Boris is back now, as expected.
I didn't think it would pan out quite like this, but a con &U victory at the next General Election is now guaranteed once again.

The public schoolboys of the A Team of Capitalism do it again.

it seems their current leader has few loyal supporters on here. All too timid to pipe up.

The king will sort it.
By the time the next election roles around I'll be dead and the place will be in an even bigger mess than now.

Well done Boris.....the more the merrier...more jumping ship will make Porky-me-Dave.

**** ALONE AND STUPID ****

Dave did pretty well in Brussels

He certainly seems to have come back a few pounds heavier so in that respect he did okay. Beyond that what is it you see that the rest of us don't about his negotiation sean?

Feb 21, 2016 -- 2:16PM, susie wrote:

Thanks CJ, but have any of these re-negotiations Dave has Battled for affected any of it?

Not a sausage. He asked for very little and got nothing.

Feb 21, 2016 -- 9:43PM, CJ70 wrote:

Feb 21, 2016 --  2:16PM, susie wrote:Thanks CJ, but have any of these re-negotiations Dave has Battled for affected any of it?Not a sausage. He asked for very little and got nothing.

Not true... he got a red card and came home in disgrace. Reminds me of Beckham's red card v Argentina in the world cup.

ET/Norris QC.

OK, I don't really know why I have to explain the workings of your own team to ye, but here goes:

1) Dave and King Boris are core Establishment figures - old Etonian chums. They are quintessential members of the ruling class, and rule they will, on behalf of the system that keeps them rich, Capitalism.

2) Dave scored an impressive GE victory, the scale of which surprised even him.

3) King Boris footers about with London - which is, indeed, a very important position, but then prepares his way back to the top at Westminster by picking up Uxbridge.

4) Both increase their stash immensely. They pay lip-service to "democracy" with this referendum idea.
Whichever way it goes, not much wlll get changed till the GE in 2020.

They will both be fine; Dave has said that he don't want to do more than two terms max; King Boris, if not back on the throne by then, steps up smartly.

--

OK, that's how it works.

Meanwhile, Poland and Lithuania have surprisingly agreed to the deal. Their folk will be getting less from GB than before.
Yes, the borders have been controlled for decades, so not really much change there.

Scaremongerers and media moghuls will continue to intimidate gullible folk with all manner of stories. These are designed to distract attention from the fact that
though many things for the working class are not improving, the rich are doing alright and getting richer by the second.
That's capitalism.

If ye really don't like it and believe in something better, join us and work for the big change.

Not a sausage. He asked for very little and got nothing.


Thanks cj; it seems to have been enough for Theresa, Ollie etc. to nail their colours to the in mast. From that viewpoint it wasn't entirely a meaningless charade or complete pantomime.

My post deleted before it even arrived!

It seems they don't like mention of thatcher or gove.

Ridiculous censorship.

Not a so-called swearword in it.

I'll try again later.

The best thing about all this nonsense is that it may spell the end for old gove.

yes lets get angry about a law about cats and birds but not get angry about laws that allows that allows rich people to put money into a " Trust ". What is a Trust and why do we need them?

Why can big business send profits offshore but not small buisness or individuals?

Poor Gove tried to spread an untruth about the legality of Cameron's deal yesterday morning, his claim was rebutted by the EU yesterday afternoon.

Of course the EU will say it's binding.

Migrants will sue the govt and it will go to the European Courts. No way are you allowed to discriminate as to who gets in work benefits.

The suggestion from Cameron is people have to contribute before they take out. That does not apply to many Brits so it would be a lawyer's dream to take on the Govt over a migrant's claim.

At the crux of the EU is that we are one people, one nation. There is no such thing as a 'migrant'. If they have an EU passport they have all the rights that the locals have.

I think Gove is likely to be correct,he is rather intent on attention to detail and would understand this issue would attract the smears from the EU supporters.

Broken

A prominent QC was asked to give a view and sided with Gove. Which isn't definitive but certainly not an untruth.

sean

I asked you why you suggested that Cameron did pretty well in Brussels. I didn't need a lesson on how the old boys network works. Just an answer to the question.

ET/Norris qc,

read this quick, before it gets deleted.

According to all the folk who should know, ie top businessmen, top diplomats, top-bolli x - people in the upper echelon of the ruling class - he got as much as he could expect.
Bloomberg reinforced this view.

Now I am far from the upper heights of Capitalism, but if they tell me the p gjig got a reasonable deal, then I take that as about right.
It matters not to me or the working class as a whole: we always get the worst end of the deal.

Where Brussels and ye legal eagles in general go wrong is that ye "try" to apply principles of fairness to capitalism. This is impossible and futile.
The Machine doesn't do that.

If we want principles we need a new system that is based on them. 'Tis the same old silliness: trying to make a two-stroke run on diesel.
Obviously, the only folk who do really well out of that sort of tomfoolery are the crook mechanics, ie. the legal profession, who are hand in glove with paid politicians.

Of course, ye don't need a lesson in that. Ye are probably well-versed in it.

OK, press now.

Whether or not the final agreement is binding, it has yet to be approved by anyone. If they can all agree to change the treaty now, they can agree to change it back again in 6 months time and probably will once our referendum result is known.

The package of reforms negotiated by David Cameron cannot be reversed by European judges, according to the EU Council president.
Donald Tusk told MEPs the deal was "legally binding and irreversible".
Both Downing Street and attorney general Jeremy Wright say the reforms cannot be reversed.
Mr Tusk, who played a key role in negotiating the settlement, said it was "in conformity with the treaties and cannot be annulled by the European Court of Justice".
He said: "But it will only enter into force if the British people vote to stay. If they vote to leave, the settlement will cease to exist."
The UK's negotiation "was the first round… and the last", he added.

Do you really believe any of that? If we vote to leave there is no need for an agreement anyway so that is a pointless remark.

Sage,

even if the referendum goes brexit's way, it will take more than FIVE YEARS  to sort out all the redtape.

DaveC ill be gone. King Boris steps up, whatever happens.

And know what, we'll all be worse off whatever the silly ... do!

We need a proper system.

If we stay in we will be sorting out new red tape until we are all 6 feet under. Other countries ignore the regs. of course. After the Paris attacks, Hollande announced that he was going to break all the rules on borrowings to strengthen his army and intelligence services. We are saying we can't free ourselves from EU rules unless we leave. Funny that.

Like him or loathe him he has stuck to his beliefs.
Unlike a few prominent Tories.

Think the whole shebang will collapse like a sack of coal soon any way.

Immigration plus the muck of the currency will see a rapid change;  paper can't support economies for ever. Debts can't multiply forever,

At least if we are out we will have only our manure to shovel up.

What beliefs would they be? Apparently Hollande assured Cameron of support for some reforms but once in the summit with other leaders he denied it and opposed them. Some friend and ally he will make!

sage , et al,

Here is a quote from the press re TOP TORIES:

"Mr Hammond was apparently angry that Sir Bill published a Brussels document confirming the Prime Minister's deal was legally binding, after the Foreign Secretary had asked him to keep it confidential.

A Foreign Office source confirmed they will be referring the incident to parliamentary authorities, adding: "The legal advice in question confirms that the deal the Prime Minister secured is legally binding and irreversible."


Not a lot of people know that, I suppose.

All this nonsense is a DISTRACTION.

The REAL PROBLEM is CAPITALISM.

Also, from the press: LORD KING  says a FINANCIAL CRASH is INEVITABLE.

Folk are fiddling while Rome burns.

Get with the reality!

" the deal the Prime Minister secured is legally binding and irreversible."

Fingers hovering over the DELETE BUTTON already, no doubt.