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43 years after the event. A waste of money or an appeasement or both?
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what about the hundreds of IRA murderers
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what about the hundreds of IRA murderers
Nearly all of them were informers, we now learn. Cant arrest them. |
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Everyone knows how the British army acted in Derry on Bloody Sunday. I don't personally see it being something which should need to be re examined. They killed innocent people but the past is the past and we should move on. Unfortunately some unionist politicians want people now serving I government with them to apologise for their past when they have nothing to apologise for when they were forced into a situation where they acted in a way they should be proud of. That does not mean I wanted or was happy to see anyone killed .
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What happened to the equivalent of truth and reconciliation? If it's good for one side it's good for the other. What happened in many places was awful including Bloody Sunday.
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was bloody every day for the poor buggers who tried to go about their business in the occupied zone, thanks to the murderous fanatics on both sides. now that they have (almost) stopped killing each other, it is time to reflect on how we ( i am republican ) allowed this to happen. hard to credit that apologists for the mass-murder of women and children out shopping are now in government, but if thats the way it has to be......
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You are right Grappler,
The problem is when things get polarised between them and us and not right and wrong. |
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The problem is that some loyalists will always look at the troubles from 1969 onwards and the from the point when the new ira started up. They don't like to talk about the decades which preceded that and what happened in the months leading up to Decemember 1969.
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As wildmnafromborneo is on this thread its noteworthy to mention that the first minister if the n.ireland assembly actually oragnised and led an invasion into southern Ireland in in 1985. They never made it as far as Tipperary.
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As the song goes its a long way to Tipperary especially if you just cross the border into a small village in Monagahan!
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If the UK pull out of Europe, that fkn border will be a lively frontier, imo.
No man should have to face a barrier run by foreigners when he's trying to make his way from one part of his country to another. A lot of dopes haven't even thought of that; they just scream out what they see in their papers and pamphlets. |
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I think they should arrest all 80,000 of them
after all they are trained to kill should take the lot into custard!!! ahhahahah |
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paddletoe • November 11, 2015 10:15 AM GMT
The problem is that some loyalists will always look at the troubles from 1969 onwards and the from the point when the new ira started up. They don't like to talk about the decades which preceded that and what happened in the months leading up to Decemember 1969. Which is 46 years ago ya muppet. |
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1690 is still fresh in my mind never mind 1960
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'Tis a very long war alright.
The legacy is pretty bad; much of it funded by the tax-payers. Violence is not the answer, imo. This will all get covered up, imo. |
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Should have died with the GF agreement.
Early release and letters pledging no charges to other terrorists yet wanting to take action against a soldier after over 40 years. Appeasement at it's worst. |
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A foreign soldier in another man's land.
Murder is murder, regardless of the time-frame. I don't know why ye are bothered: your gvt is used to calling sham-investigations and then covering everything up, eventually. In fact, most rulers across the globe do the same. It certainly happens in Ireland. Btw, the Birmingham bombings were equally wrong and equally counter-productive. We would have a united Ireland by now, but for miss-rule. |
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sean rua • November 16, 2015 3:13 PM GMT
A foreign soldier in another man's land Last time I looked Northern Ireland was part of the UK and the army is made up of people from Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland so quite a silly point to be frank. As regards a united Ireland then it was prior to the formation of the ROI.  But seriously on a united Ireland there isn't the same appetite for it that there was in years gone past. There is a real fear that any move away from the UK will start the 'troubles' again but this time with the unionist taking the place of the ira. |
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sean rua • November 16, 2015 3:13 PM GMT
Murder is murder, regardless of the time-frame. Agreed but why should terrorists be immune from prosecution and not anyone else? Surely the whole point of the GF peace agreement was to draw a line in the sand and move on. |
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The majority of people in n.ireland want to live in the present and look to the future but for some unionist politicians like Jim Allister and Gregory Campbell they can hardly spend a day in the n.ireland assembly without talking about the past.
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Am sure there are plenty of people who want to brush under the carpet what happened in the past but life doesn't work like that, it will comeback to bite you.
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43 years.
What a cover up. Didn't take that long to convict Private Clegg. Were the Paras instructed to open fire? |
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If he did murder the 3 men as alleged,throw away the key.
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Is the whole NI peace process not built on lies. All sides want to put the past behind them for various reasons 1. The British committed shameful acts that they want buried plus they don't want to throw anymore money at it. 2 The republican terrorists committed mass murder of many innocent people and don't want to serve time for those offences,especially now many are older. 3 Loyalist groups again don't want to serve the time their crimes warrant. So they build the agreement on the basis of certain people not being prosecuted , but the victims get no justice and the NI citizens don't get to hear the real truth so the wounds can never heal.
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Yes, the families of a lot of people killed wont get the justice the feel they deserve but Ricki if you can tell me another way a peace agreement could have been reached I would like to hear it.
I am personally in favour of putting the past behind despite many close friends and family being killed and serving many years in jail for a conflict which would have been avoided if the unionist majority had shared power and given equal rights to all citizens which was not a very hard thing to ask for. I only bring up the past on here when some people ignore that fact. |
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paddletoe • November 17, 2015 9:44 AM GMT
The majority of people in n.ireland want to live in the present and look to the future but for some unionist politicians like Jim Allister and Gregory Campbell they can hardly spend a day in the n.ireland assembly without talking about the past. The real problem though is people like you who only see the negatives from side. |
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pa lapsy • November 17, 2015 2:42 PM GMT
If he did murder the 3 men as alleged,throw away the key. In normal circumstances I'd agree with you but what about the terrorists, on both sides, who murdered far more than that? The GFA should be observed by all and anything that happened prior to that put into the history books. |
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Akabula I would view the simple and basic right to be treated equally as not something which should even need to be demanded and the unionists had from partition until 1969 to do that. The same people from the unionist side side in n.ireland see the troubles being started by one side in late 1969. They don't seem to have any memories of things which happened in the many months prior to the end of 1969 and all the years previous since partition. Yet they have no memory loss as far back as 1690.
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What about them Akabula? The topic is about a soldier arrested over the murder of innocent civilians, the terrorism came after.
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Again you single out the one side for criticism when most in the parliament live in the past albeit with selective memories.
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pa lapsy • November 17, 2015 7:07 PM GMT
What about them Akabula? The topic is about a soldier arrested over the murder of innocent civilians, the terrorism came after. All I'm saying is that anything prior to the GFA should be consigned to the history books. As Sean says vmurder is murder so why should we pursue some and not all? |
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But we're talking about now. Time to move on or it'll never be resolved.
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I agree. But in the n.ireland assembly the same people refuse to let the past go and I have named two of them especially.
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Yep but Sinn Fein hardly help matters by employing ex murderers as 'advisers'.
Anyways until the politicians genuinely get together and work out a way forward Northern Ireland will always be in turmoil. I've always felt that trying to create a new identity should be the first step. |
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I would personally describe myself as a north of Ireland person and a person accepting that the unionists have some different traditions which are part of the place I live but I don't accept some loyalist 12th july marches when 99% of them are not objectionable to. I also don't accept that many of the different things which had to change were concessions given by unionists when they should not have been there in the first place.
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I thought the Rugby officials missed an opportunity by retaining the ROI anthem.
As an all Ireland team I'd have thought that Irelands Call would have been the better option as an anthem. |
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A solution could be more feasible if those higher up in the main parties were replaced by new younger blood that weren't either directly involved or sympathetic to mass murder, torture and drug running. There appears deep mistrust on all sides, which understanable . Fresh faces who genuinely want to move forward and have no tracks they need to cover, could be a way forward.
Back to the OP if the soldier involved did kill 3 unarmed Catholics then it doesn't matter whether he was in the armed forces or not he's still a murderer and should be treated as such in a court of law, where the victims families are entitled to have justice served. |
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It is hard to have reconcilliation without truth.
I would not be sympathetic if it was my loved ones who had been murdered. The Government will never tell the truth. A line needs to be drawn under this though. |
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Yes, I agree that we have to look to the future. The past has shaped where we are at.
All wars involve compromise: former enemies become allies etc. In Syria, we have russians, french, "others" all pounding away at a product of u.s. and u.k intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan. In WW2, Russia became an ally. Ultimately, we have to talk and move on. I look forward to my land being united and living in peace and co-operation with our neighbours and anybody else for that matter. Why, Ireland recently signed loads of business deals with "red" China, as has GB. Business is business. Capitalism doesn't really do boundaries, unless some clever dick can see a money-making opportunity. The border in Ireland has made a lot of money for some. |
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Btw, I was told that 2 para were trigger-happy. Nobody will ever admit fk all about any "order". If it came, it came from on high, hence the secrecy and cover up.
Same ol, same old. |