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Not exactly setting the bar very high -
He must realise he has just about no chance of getting the EU/UK relationship to change in a meaningful way, hence these 4 weak demands.
FFS Euro not the official currency - great!
Good to be a case for undecided voters to vote leave, then there will be a 2nd referendum a year later after the EU has changed.
Forcing Brussels to make “an explicit statement” that Britain will be kept out of any move towards a European superstate. This will require an exemption for the UK from the EU’s founding principle of “ever closer union”.
An “explicit statement” that the euro is not the official currency of the EU, making clear that Europe is a “multi-currency” union. Ministers want this declaration in order to protect the status of the pound sterling as a legitimate currency that will always exist.
A new “red card” system to bring power back from Brussels to Britain. This would give groups of national parliaments the power to stop unwanted directives being handed down and to scrap existing EU laws.
A new structure for the EU itself. The block of 28 nations must be reorganised to prevent the nine countries that are not in the eurozone being dominated by the 19 member states that are, with particular protections for the City of London.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11924603/David-Camerons-four-key-demands-to-remain-in-the-EU-revealed.html
He must realise he has just about no chance of getting the EU/UK relationship to change in a meaningful way, hence these 4 weak demands.
FFS Euro not the official currency - great!
Good to be a case for undecided voters to vote leave, then there will be a 2nd referendum a year later after the EU has changed.
Forcing Brussels to make “an explicit statement” that Britain will be kept out of any move towards a European superstate. This will require an exemption for the UK from the EU’s founding principle of “ever closer union”.
An “explicit statement” that the euro is not the official currency of the EU, making clear that Europe is a “multi-currency” union. Ministers want this declaration in order to protect the status of the pound sterling as a legitimate currency that will always exist.
A new “red card” system to bring power back from Brussels to Britain. This would give groups of national parliaments the power to stop unwanted directives being handed down and to scrap existing EU laws.
A new structure for the EU itself. The block of 28 nations must be reorganised to prevent the nine countries that are not in the eurozone being dominated by the 19 member states that are, with particular protections for the City of London.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11924603/David-Camerons-four-key-demands-to-remain-in-the-EU-revealed.html
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No mention of restrictions on free movement which he knows he won't get. So what was Theresa up to last week ?
Pointless and still costs us money. When Labour gets back into power the 4 demands will be reversed and we all back to square one.
The only answer is out.
The only answer is out.
The problem is there is no real argument for in. The reasoning that we must all be good Europeans and do as we are told wears thin on the populace.
I've said since the start that it wouldn't surprise me if Cameron ends up on the out side, going to the country with that offer isn't going to work and he will know that. The key tenets of the EU have all but collapsed already and we are probably two years away from the vote. Who knows if the EU will still exist in the same form?
As for Farage turning off moderates to out, you'll have Corbyn turning off moderates to in. All in all I don't see that as much of an issue.
I've said since the start that it wouldn't surprise me if Cameron ends up on the out side, going to the country with that offer isn't going to work and he will know that. The key tenets of the EU have all but collapsed already and we are probably two years away from the vote. Who knows if the EU will still exist in the same form?
As for Farage turning off moderates to out, you'll have Corbyn turning off moderates to in. All in all I don't see that as much of an issue.
Cameron is not going to be on the out side. One of the big beasts,Theresa or Boris might be.
Corbyn may well try for the same position as Wilson managed in 1975 ( everybody free to campaign whichever way they want ). He himself must have a history of being anti as all his generation of lefties were at one time,but I agree NuLabor is /was almost fanatically pro.
Both parties could have considerable problems if they try to whip all their members ( perhaps I ought to re-phrase that ).
Corbyn may well try for the same position as Wilson managed in 1975 ( everybody free to campaign whichever way they want ). He himself must have a history of being anti as all his generation of lefties were at one time,but I agree NuLabor is /was almost fanatically pro.
Both parties could have considerable problems if they try to whip all their members ( perhaps I ought to re-phrase that ).
Farage will also turn off moderates who dislike the EU, but are turned off by UKIP knuckle draggers.
And the left wing knuckle draggers will turn off moderates who want to stay, into voting to leave.
And the left wing knuckle draggers will turn off moderates who want to stay, into voting to leave.
It's NuLabor that is pro-Europe Crippen.
Some of them might be knuckle draggers but hardly left-wing.
Some of them might be knuckle draggers but hardly left-wing.
Alright SS, I was just answering a silly comment with another silly comment.
It's significant that you chose to address the one from me yet ignored the one that I was replying to.
It's significant that you chose to address the one from me yet ignored the one that I was replying to.
I'm not sure Corbyn will be able to hold his Shad. Cab together if he isn't explicitly 'In'.
Then again the way he's going he's unlikely to be around in two years time as leader.
As for Cameron I can't see him campaigning for the status quo. The legacy issues for that position are massive.
Then again the way he's going he's unlikely to be around in two years time as leader.
As for Cameron I can't see him campaigning for the status quo. The legacy issues for that position are massive.
CJ70, scare stories about jobs and uncertainty is all that "in" requires and they will be provided with plenty of those. The Scottish independence referendum Mark II.
CJ. Cameron is going to campaign on the grounds he has got significant concessions even though he won't have.
You might be right about Corbyn and his shadow cabinet but if one of the concessions Cameron does manage to get is some sort of enhanced opt-out on employment law he could get into the position I suspect he is aiming for.
Farage is becoming increasingly irrelevant Crippen imo. So I don't think his presence on the campaign trail will make much difference one way or the other.
You might be right about Corbyn and his shadow cabinet but if one of the concessions Cameron does manage to get is some sort of enhanced opt-out on employment law he could get into the position I suspect he is aiming for.
Farage is becoming increasingly irrelevant Crippen imo. So I don't think his presence on the campaign trail will make much difference one way or the other.
Oct 11, 2015 -- 12:35PM, DIE LINKE wrote:
CJ70, scare stories about jobs and uncertainty is all that "in" requires and they will be provided with plenty of those. The Scottish independence referendum Mark II.
Not sure anyone believes those these days. The in team is the same old crowd that were saying the same things about the Euro.
With purdah and official election campaign groups I expect that to be a moot point.
Oct 11, 2015 -- 12:52PM, salmon spray wrote:
CJ. Cameron is going to campaign on the grounds he has got significant concessions even though he won't have.You might be right about Corbyn and his shadow cabinet but if one of the concessions Cameron does manage to get is some sort of enhanced opt-out on employment law he could get into the position I suspect he is aiming for.Farage is becoming increasingly irrelevant Crippen imo. So I don't think his presence on the campaign trail will make much difference one way or the other.
That position just doesn't work. He will know that himself, so all the hoo haa currently that he wants nothing but will make it look like major concessions doesn't fly with me.
Cameron is simply going through the motions of attempting to gain concessions.
Any leader who was about to hold a referendum on an exit would do the same.
That lets him off the hook whichever way the voting goes.
If we leave the EU, he can say they caused our exit by not budging over the terms of membership.
And if we vote to stay in, he's still in the clear.
Not negotiating terms with the EU would be a bit like Arthur Scargill not holding a ballot before the miners strike.
Nobody ever let him forget it.
Any leader who was about to hold a referendum on an exit would do the same.
That lets him off the hook whichever way the voting goes.
If we leave the EU, he can say they caused our exit by not budging over the terms of membership.
And if we vote to stay in, he's still in the clear.
Not negotiating terms with the EU would be a bit like Arthur Scargill not holding a ballot before the miners strike.
Nobody ever let him forget it.
CJ70
11 Oct 15 13:04
Joined: 26 Nov 11
Not sure anyone believes those these days. The in team is the same old crowd that were saying the same things about the Euro.
With purdah and official election campaign groups I expect that to be a moot point.
Having never been on the receiving end of scare stories/monstering in the press i wouldn't suppose you would have thought about its effect very much. Be prepared for a shock.
11 Oct 15 13:04
Joined: 26 Nov 11
Not sure anyone believes those these days. The in team is the same old crowd that were saying the same things about the Euro.
With purdah and official election campaign groups I expect that to be a moot point.
Having never been on the receiving end of scare stories/monstering in the press i wouldn't suppose you would have thought about its effect very much. Be prepared for a shock.
Oct 11, 2015 -- 2:44PM, DIE LINKE wrote:
CJ7011 Oct 15 13:04Joined: 26 Nov 11Not sure anyone believes those these days. The in team is the same old crowd that were saying the same things about the Euro.With purdah and official election campaign groups I expect that to be a moot point.Having never been on the receiving end of scare stories/monstering in the press i wouldn't suppose you would have thought about its effect very much. Be prepared for a shock.
Tee Hee.
If Cameron believes in the EU then why is he scrambling around for concessions and compromises??
It's poor form if you ask me. He should either be a supporter of free movement (mass immigration) and come out and say it or lead the OUT campaign.
By his politics for over a decade he has backed the EU with its open borders. This panic is showing him up as a man lacking principles. The classic modern day politician who doesn't know which way to jump.
It's poor form if you ask me. He should either be a supporter of free movement (mass immigration) and come out and say it or lead the OUT campaign.
By his politics for over a decade he has backed the EU with its open borders. This panic is showing him up as a man lacking principles. The classic modern day politician who doesn't know which way to jump.
DIE LINKE
On several occasions I've seen luvvie nut butties like yourself refer to UKIP and their supporters as knuckle draggers. Now my understanding of such a term is that the person is unevolved, unable to form rational arguments and in short thick but it strikes me that many supporters of UKIP have weighed up the pros and cons of EU membership and taken a logical and rational decision that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Consequently the rational conclusion from that is that bereft of cogent ideas and ability to persuade through reason all you are left with is denigration. Perhaps it is the europhiles who are in fact the knuckle draggers. After all the last time we went through this charade of democracy they/you lied their asses off to get what they wanted. Which really doesn't say very much about their own faith to convince people of the logic of their arguments. You are Brussels biitch. Now bend over boy and watch you don't cut your knuckles as you scrape them across the ground sucker.
On several occasions I've seen luvvie nut butties like yourself refer to UKIP and their supporters as knuckle draggers. Now my understanding of such a term is that the person is unevolved, unable to form rational arguments and in short thick but it strikes me that many supporters of UKIP have weighed up the pros and cons of EU membership and taken a logical and rational decision that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Consequently the rational conclusion from that is that bereft of cogent ideas and ability to persuade through reason all you are left with is denigration. Perhaps it is the europhiles who are in fact the knuckle draggers. After all the last time we went through this charade of democracy they/you lied their asses off to get what they wanted. Which really doesn't say very much about their own faith to convince people of the logic of their arguments. You are Brussels biitch. Now bend over boy and watch you don't cut your knuckles as you scrape them across the ground sucker.
I almost despair. I don't because lets cut the bullshiit. The Tories are a party whose core vote isn't convinced that the EU is beneficial for the country but apart from a rump the rest of the party lick their lips at possible sinecures when they leave parliament. If the banks won't have them and the Lords is full where else do they look?
So we know where they are coming from and it's like the old Labour days of beer and sandwiches. I genuinely laughed when I read that the biggest single issue for the voters is free movement and yet the government has waved the white flag on the issue because they don't think the EU will negotiate on that.
Just allow that thought to percolate and weep for democracy.
So we know where they are coming from and it's like the old Labour days of beer and sandwiches. I genuinely laughed when I read that the biggest single issue for the voters is free movement and yet the government has waved the white flag on the issue because they don't think the EU will negotiate on that.
Just allow that thought to percolate and weep for democracy.
I rather got the impression that DIE LINKE is anti-EU. Quite a few of us on the left still are. I have friends who might well vote to stay in because they now associate the anti argument with the right-wing of the Tory Party and UKIP which contains a lot of one-time Tories including Farage and Carswell of course. The argument to come out needs to appeal to both sides of the political divide to be successful.
I think we'll leave.
Immigration is the big issue amongst the masses.
I can't see party politics figuring in the issue at all.
If any working class people vote to stay in they'd have to be off their rockers, given the way the extra numbers of people are overloading housing and public services.
It's alright for business leaders to tell us vote to stay in. They're not dependent on state schools and the NHS.
They just like the cheap labour from abroad putting downwards pressure on wages.
They don't have the problem with finding accommodation due to the shortage of housing.
How many of them have to put their name down to go on a council list to get a flat?
Immigration is the big issue amongst the masses.
I can't see party politics figuring in the issue at all.
If any working class people vote to stay in they'd have to be off their rockers, given the way the extra numbers of people are overloading housing and public services.
It's alright for business leaders to tell us vote to stay in. They're not dependent on state schools and the NHS.
They just like the cheap labour from abroad putting downwards pressure on wages.
They don't have the problem with finding accommodation due to the shortage of housing.
How many of them have to put their name down to go on a council list to get a flat?
I doubt Die Linke would have chosen the name of a party that is craven to the EU if he was anti-EU.
kamaroon is herr merkel's fk puppet
he will have a nice little job in the eussr after he finishes mashing our country
just saying
he will have a nice little job in the eussr after he finishes mashing our country
just saying
we have 4 million foreign workers in this country
another 900,000 illegals ha ha f ha ha if you believe that low figure
and you think immigration and belonging to the eu is going to help
ha ha ha
another 900,000 illegals ha ha f ha ha if you believe that low figure
and you think immigration and belonging to the eu is going to help
ha ha ha
I think when you see spanish construction companies busing in their own staff directly from spain.
When you struggle to communicate with bar staff in london.
When you go down streets where english ISN'T spoken.
When an area of west london looks like down town Bangladesh
When you can't mention muslims.
When you are pulled up over what you cook in your shared canteen
When one of your members invites the world and its dog into europe.
when you are told to support a corrupt organisation that the accountants won't sign off on.
when you see said organisation is where our retired and ex anti eu politicians head for it for a sinecure
When you struggle to communicate with bar staff in london.
When you go down streets where english ISN'T spoken.
When an area of west london looks like down town Bangladesh
When you can't mention muslims.
When you are pulled up over what you cook in your shared canteen
When one of your members invites the world and its dog into europe.
when you are told to support a corrupt organisation that the accountants won't sign off on.
when you see said organisation is where our retired and ex anti eu politicians head for it for a sinecure
I think when you see spanish construction companies busing in their own staff directly from spain.
When you struggle to communicate with bar staff in london.
When you go down streets where english ISN'T spoken.
When an area of west london looks like down town Bangladesh
When you can't mention muslims.
When you are pulled up over what you cook in your shared canteen
When one of your members invites the world and its dog into europe.
when you are told to support a corrupt organisation that the accountants won't sign off on.
when you see said organisation is where our retired and ex anti eu politicians head for it for a sinecure
When you struggle to communicate with bar staff in london.
When you go down streets where english ISN'T spoken.
When an area of west london looks like down town Bangladesh
When you can't mention muslims.
When you are pulled up over what you cook in your shared canteen
When one of your members invites the world and its dog into europe.
when you are told to support a corrupt organisation that the accountants won't sign off on.
when you see said organisation is where our retired and ex anti eu politicians head for it for a sinecure
I think when you see spanish construction companies busing in their own staff directly from spain.
When you struggle to communicate with bar staff in london.
When you go down streets where english ISN'T spoken.
When an area of west london looks like down town Bangladesh
When you can't mention muslims.
When you are pulled up over what you cook in your shared canteen
When one of your members invites the world and its dog into europe.
when you are told to support a corrupt organisation that the accountants won't sign off on.
when you see said organisation is where our retired and ex anti eu politicians head for it for a sinecure
When you struggle to communicate with bar staff in london.
When you go down streets where english ISN'T spoken.
When an area of west london looks like down town Bangladesh
When you can't mention muslims.
When you are pulled up over what you cook in your shared canteen
When one of your members invites the world and its dog into europe.
when you are told to support a corrupt organisation that the accountants won't sign off on.
when you see said organisation is where our retired and ex anti eu politicians head for it for a sinecure
The kinnocks will be voting for it remember the great anti eu Kinnocks - who suck at the teat at taxpayers expense??
Sad to say Crips but the majority of our fellow citizens have the IQ of the contents of Hanks Y fronts. They will do as they are told and that isn't going to be outski.
@CJ.I don't think DIE LINKE ( the party ) supports the EU as it is currently constituted.
Oct 12, 2015 -- 12:13AM, salmon spray wrote:
@CJ.I don't think DIE LINKE ( the party ) supports the EU as it is currently constituted.
They do. They just don't like the decisions it makes.
Nothing to do with the poster of the same name, but it's a vile party.
My understanding is that they are internationalists. Not the same thing.
I think this article pretty much sums up where they are on the topic.
Had to bit.ly it to avoid doing a tony. Article is from Euractiv in the lead up to the Euro elections.
http://bit.ly/1LDKdLN
Had to bit.ly it to avoid doing a tony. Article is from Euractiv in the lead up to the Euro elections.
http://bit.ly/1LDKdLN
books aint ever been signed off
SISO is the norm
most private schools per capita than anywhere in the world by a country mile is brussels all paid for by the sucker uk tax payer
too much red tape
corruption and nepotism endemic
currency is fooked
etc etc et fookin cetra
SISO is the norm
most private schools per capita than anywhere in the world by a country mile is brussels all paid for by the sucker uk tax payer
too much red tape
corruption and nepotism endemic
currency is fooked
etc etc et fookin cetra
.
http://www.change.org/p/bbc-itv-sky-news-media-bias-in-relation-to-the-eu-referendum
http://www.change.org/p/bbc-itv-sky-news-media-bias-in-relation-to-the-eu-referendum
Cameron is an unprincipled PR man.
Why is it always assumed that the working man is left wing.
The Left is pro Europe,doesn't believe in the nation state,doesn't believe in borders.
Its values are gay rights,abortion on demand and longer maternity leave for wealthy women.
These are not working class values.
Salmon Spray is an old style Leftie,someone prepared to stand up for his own,he is the type the Out campaign should be targeting.
UKIP has become the working mans party,its the only party speaking for them.
I know the old Tory types grate with many but listen to what they are saying.
Why is it always assumed that the working man is left wing.
The Left is pro Europe,doesn't believe in the nation state,doesn't believe in borders.
Its values are gay rights,abortion on demand and longer maternity leave for wealthy women.
These are not working class values.
Salmon Spray is an old style Leftie,someone prepared to stand up for his own,he is the type the Out campaign should be targeting.
UKIP has become the working mans party,its the only party speaking for them.
I know the old Tory types grate with many but listen to what they are saying.
The trouble is salmon spray has already decided he is going to vote out. We somehow have to attract younger people who consider themselves on the left.
Good luck. If Labour as a party vote in, they'll vote in regardless of what is in their interest.
My current office is in one of the poorest areas of the UK and those(aged 25-40) who vote Labour religiously will overwhelmingly vote in. People who are traditional Labour supporters but have broken the attachment are more persuadable and also more likely to vote than the former group.
If you are working on the ground you are going to need to feign an affection for mung beans and yurts to get anywhere.
My current office is in one of the poorest areas of the UK and those(aged 25-40) who vote Labour religiously will overwhelmingly vote in. People who are traditional Labour supporters but have broken the attachment are more persuadable and also more likely to vote than the former group.
If you are working on the ground you are going to need to feign an affection for mung beans and yurts to get anywhere.
My suggestions:
Halve the number of MEPs. Halve the salaries of MEPs and EU bureaucrats. No more countries to be admitted to the EU. Produce a set of accounts that satisfy an independent auditor (which they have failed to do for many years). Preferably close down the whole corrupt outfit but I suppose that is unrealistic for now. They make FIFA look like saints.
Halve the number of MEPs. Halve the salaries of MEPs and EU bureaucrats. No more countries to be admitted to the EU. Produce a set of accounts that satisfy an independent auditor (which they have failed to do for many years). Preferably close down the whole corrupt outfit but I suppose that is unrealistic for now. They make FIFA look like saints.
can anyone imagine what the reaction in brussels will be if we vote to stay?
they will take that as carte blanche to do whatever the fook they like
any objections from a british PM would be net with well your country has spoken so we are doing this and that
etc etc
a once in a lifetime opportunity to free oursleves of this shiit pit
lets fookin take it
they will take that as carte blanche to do whatever the fook they like
any objections from a british PM would be net with well your country has spoken so we are doing this and that
etc etc
a once in a lifetime opportunity to free oursleves of this shiit pit
lets fookin take it
Complete rubbish and hot air; the PR man trying to keep the Euro sceptic back benchers, and the few gullible Party members happy.
I said years ago Turkey will join, the immigration rate will soar, direct access from Syria and Iraq to the EU; Cameron's bluster surely fools nobody.
Thousands will die this winter stuck between EU borders, while the bureaucracy fiddles.
treat Cameron's re0-negotiations the same as his pledge to reduce immigration to tens of thousands/ He is A PR man telling the mugs what they want to hear.
Read Daniel hamman's latest blog on what the EU are planning from our Ports. They aint going to change..ever. More bureaucracy, more regulation, and more immigration.
I said years ago Turkey will join, the immigration rate will soar, direct access from Syria and Iraq to the EU; Cameron's bluster surely fools nobody.
Thousands will die this winter stuck between EU borders, while the bureaucracy fiddles.
treat Cameron's re0-negotiations the same as his pledge to reduce immigration to tens of thousands/ He is A PR man telling the mugs what they want to hear.
Read Daniel hamman's latest blog on what the EU are planning from our Ports. They aint going to change..ever. More bureaucracy, more regulation, and more immigration.
Cameron sucks balls. Big one ones.
Well hello again eeternal. Last time I recall you indicating quite excitingly about your terrible labour. The labour was having to drag your huge tackle around. A splendid image I have been dwelling on for a few days, thanks.
However the image of David C doing what you indicate is a bit less appealing to be honest. Is the a reason for this assertion. Please tell me you don't have a photo?
Well hello again eeternal. Last time I recall you indicating quite excitingly about your terrible labour. The labour was having to drag your huge tackle around. A splendid image I have been dwelling on for a few days, thanks.
However the image of David C doing what you indicate is a bit less appealing to be honest. Is the a reason for this assertion. Please tell me you don't have a photo?
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